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DTV Transition - One Year Later

commodore64_love writes "One year has passed since NTSC-analog television died (R.I.P. 6/12/09 — aged 68 years), and the new ATSC-digital television became standard. According to Retrovo, the transition had some successes and failures. Retailers saw this as an opportunity to sell new HDTVs and 46 million converter boxes, while cable providers advertised rates as low as $10/month. One-third of the converter boxes the US subsidized — approximately 600 million dollars worth — were never used by purchasers. Overall 51% of Americans felt the DTV transition was good, while 23% said it was not. 12% of respondents report that since the switch they have worse reception. Others received better reception, gaining 24-hour movie channels, retro channels, foreign programming, and other new networks that had not existed under the old analog system."

23 of 431 comments (clear)

  1. Fill 'er up! by Itninja · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The best (read sucky) part are all the perfectly functional, yet completely useless, "old" analog TVs that have been dumped (often illegally) in landfills. I have two that can't even give away.

    --
    I judt got a nre Kinesis keybiartf so please excusr ant egregiou typos.
    1. Re:Fill 'er up! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

      Your sig is very appropriate for your post, considering the converter boxes mentioned in the article summary prevent said TVs from being "completely useless".

    2. Re:Fill 'er up! by shoehornjob · · Score: 3, Interesting

      The best (read sucky) part are all the perfectly functional, yet completely useless, "old" analog TVs that have been dumped (often illegally) in landfills.

      I would argue that they're not always completely useless. I work for a cable network (name withheld) and some of my customers are still using the analog boxes with a set top box to do the signal reception and transcoding. Obviously they're not getting hd but that doesn't always matter to everyone.

      --
      "We are just a war away from Amerikastan. When god vs god the undoing of man." Dave Mustaine
    3. Re:Fill 'er up! by tepples · · Score: 3, Informative

      Comcast's cable box is not capable of downscaling to 480i?

      It is, but 1. renting the cable box costs a significant amount of money per month, and 2. subscribers are no longer capable of scheduling the cable box to be tuned to a given channel for use with a third-party DVR.

    4. Re:Fill 'er up! by commodore64_love · · Score: 4, Interesting

      P.S. Here's the rest of the story which editors did not include for some reason?

      "For station owners in the UHF band the transition went flawlessly, however VHF station owners (channels 2-13) are still receiving complaints from viewers. In most instances the FCC has allowed VHF channels to increase their power levels 6-7 times higher than what they were just one year ago. In other cases VHF owners are experimenting with low-power repeaters to fill-in reception gaps.

      "However ATSC-DTV's existence may be shorter than expected. The US FCC is meeting to discuss ways to eliminate free over-the-air television completely, in order to make room for more cellphone frequencies : http://www.broadcastlawblog.com/2010/06/articles/television/fcc-wastes-no-time-on-television-spectrum-reallocation/ (FCC Wastes No Time on Television Spectrum Reallocation)"

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    5. Re:Fill 'er up! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

      . . .They absolutely are. I worked in the department that develops the guide software (all of the gui shit) on comcast settop boxes. . . .

      * Licking chops *
      So you're responsible? Well Mister Comcast Guide tester, I will politely tell you that the Comcast on-screen guide sucks donkey balls.

    6. Re:Fill 'er up! by Itninja · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The need to a box has taken the cable television back to 1985. The 'cable ready' television was great because you didn't need a box. Now if you have 6 TV in your home....guess what? You need 6 mammoth cable boxes (or at the very least 6 cable cards). Of and BTW, they cost about $60 a year each. Welcome to the New World Order.

      --
      I judt got a nre Kinesis keybiartf so please excusr ant egregiou typos.
    7. Re:Fill 'er up! by commodore64_love · · Score: 3, Informative

      >>>one big antenna hogging all the spectrum which is only usable for one thing.

      Broadcast TV occupies less than 1% of the total spectrum currently in use. It's not "hogging" anything. If you need more room to watch the Pr0n on your iGadget, shutdown one of the other less-useful services, not the TV which people rely upon for Tornado Warnings and other emergency events. See this map: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:United_States_Frequency_Allocations_Chart_2003_-_The_Radio_Spectrum.jpg

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
  2. From a Completely Different Perspective by eldavojohn · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Me, personally, I think it's great and had to be done. Recently got a tiny DTV to USB tuner (~$20) for my computer and think it's fantastic. No doubt everyone's heard this viewpoint.

    But let me relay the experiences of my grandmother who lives in the middle of nowhere mid-west. She didn't get new channels. She didn't get 24 hour movie channels. She didn't get better reception. What she got was yet another box for me to put in the chain between her television and the antenna attached to the pole shed. She now has another remote. Her checklist of things to go through when she wants to program a recording just got one longer as well as things to check when it's not working. And when she records it, she can only do one channel at a time as that's what the DTV box has to be set on since her VCR can't control digital signals. She was already getting analog distortion or static when she recorded her soap operas and I think she had learned to cope with this kind of distortion when viewing them intently. Last I checked up on her she complained that the digital distortion (specifically the audio distortion) was much harder to work through at times as opposed to fuzzy static. The clipping of the voices seems to ruin her enjoyment of a cookie cutter three quarter view emo meltdown between two hams.

    So I think a lot of the views you're hearing are people who are connected to the internet and the unspoken voice of someone who has neither the internet nor a cell phone is actually a large consumer of the programs on air wave TV and products advertised on nationally broadcasted programs. Just something to consider, after helping her through this change I would be doubtful that she is alone or unique to her age group.

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    My work here is dung.
    1. Re:From a Completely Different Perspective by Toonol · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Weak digital tv weak analog tv
      it's not even close


      Weak digital is FAR worse than weak analog. If that's what you mean, I agree.

    2. Re:From a Completely Different Perspective by MoonBuggy · · Score: 3, Informative

      Good suggestion, although I'd say that if you're replacing the VCR (and thus teaching new menus and settings anyway) it's probably easier to just go for a proper DVR instead. Newegg has a tuner/DVR for $140. Throw in a decent sized hard drive and you've got everything covered in one box for $200, and a device that (IMO) is altogether more elegant than a VCR or DVD Recorder.

    3. Re:From a Completely Different Perspective by eln · · Score: 3, Insightful

      This sort of story happens whenever a major technological shift occurs. When TV first became popular people were going out and buying TVs and ignoring their radios, and so programming began to shift from radio to TV. All of the serial programming, news shows, and all the other rich programming that used to populate the radio waves all moved to TV, leaving nothing but political talk and music on the radio. Certainly some older consumers ended up getting stuck because they didn't want to or couldn't move to TV, so they stuck with their increasingly useless radios. People that are having trouble with this switch are people that have had the same TV set for 20 years or more and are still watching entirely over-the-air programming even though more and more programming has been moving to cable and satellite for decades. These tend to be older people as a general rule, although not all old people get stuck. My grandmother has a nice new HDTV with a DVR, and my grandfather just got DirecTV hooked up, although he still uses his old 20 year old VCR.

      Technological progress moves on, and you either move on with it or get stuck with increasingly useless old tech that you have to jump through more and more hoops to get to work properly. My TV in the living room died just a couple of months ago, and instead of getting a cheap SDTV I went ahead and bought the HDTV because I figured with more and more programming going to HD, the SDTV will become more useless over time. Eventually as programming continues to move to HD, I'll have to switch out the TV upstairs or end up watching all of my programming with the sides cut off. We grumble about these things, but it would be absurd to halt progress just because not everyone is ready or willing to go along with it.

    4. Re:From a Completely Different Perspective by westlake · · Score: 5, Informative

      What she got was yet another box for me to put in the chain between her television and the antenna attached to the pole shed.

      Nowhere, Nebraska implies legacy - low power - VHF broadcast and UHF transponders.

      Trash the old - likely decades old - antenna.

      Mount a new one, designed for fringe area reception. Mount it high. Don't cut any corners. Work strictly by-the-book. If you aren't comfortable with heights, let a pro do the job.

      Consider installing a very low-noise pre-amp.

  3. A/D conversion in macrocosm by tverbeek · · Score: 3, Insightful

    For me it's been a true analog-to-digital conversion. I no longer sort-of-get any TV stations; I either get them or I don't. The stations I used to pick up pretty well, I now get perfectly. The stations I used to pick up poorly, I now don't get at all.

    --
    http://alternatives.rzero.com/
    1. Re:A/D conversion in macrocosm by Toonol · · Score: 5, Funny

      Yeah, I've lost NBC for good due to the digital conversion; nothing I could do would get me more than a screen full of squares. I live in an apartment complex, so mounting a real rooftop antenna is out of the question.

      I did, thanks to this, discover that I can greatly increase my antenna's signal by placing my wok behind it. I guess a wok is close enough to a parabolic reflector to function as one. I have to do that to be able to watch Fringe, which amuses me.

  4. Major Improvement by Tau+Neutrino · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Comcast wanted to triple the rate to go from minimal analog to the equivalent digital offering. We said, "No thanks," and disconnected completely. Even my ten-year-old son was on board with the decision.

    We watch a few shows on Hulu, get movies from the local library, and don't miss standard television at all. Much much better.

    --
    Lemmings are silly; dinosaurs are extinct.
  5. Re:Meh by 0racle · · Score: 4, Funny
    --
    "I use a Mac because I'm just better than you are."
  6. There are major problems with dtv by Revek · · Score: 5, Informative

    I work for a small multi system cable company. We have several headends servicing small towns in south eastern Arkansas. Our primary problem is co channel. There are fewer DTV channels available so they gave out the same frequency to multiple stations. Also the range for DTV is much lower than the old VHF analog spectrum. With the old analog system Co channel was mainly a ghosting on the screen. With DTV it results in a complete loss of signal. We have tried several different types of antennas with no change in the problem. What we need to fix these problems is for the FCC to remap the frequencies they hand out to the stations. However they are not planning to do that blaming instead the cable operators for not fixing the problem.

    1. Re:There are major problems with dtv by Revek · · Score: 3, Informative

      You do realize that you have no choice about the frequency of the off air broadcast station. You are confusing in plant channel mapping with reception of off air broadcast. You are further confusing mapping for set top boxes with the eia channel map of witch the digital channels on the set top boxes operate. Thanks for the troll try again.

  7. And yet there's money to be made... by lurking_giant · · Score: 4, Informative

    The Cincinnati Enquirer reported on May 31st that http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20100531/NEWS01/6010323/Forger-s-company-got-562K-stimulus-contract/ a local company, Tekreation Center LLC, recieved $562K in federal stimulus money to provide installation demonstration services to those who needed help getting the converter boxes to work. Demonstrations! Not actual installations. Tekreation reportedly performed 1,453 demonstrations for installing a digital-to-analog converter. $562,000/1453=$386.79 per demo. The could have bought a decent digital TV for that price. Another massive waste of your tax dollars.

  8. Unlike copyrights, patents expire. by tepples · · Score: 3, Informative

    Anyone could implement an NTSC compatible, TV, Tuner card, PVR, camcorder... without paying anyone royalties.

    Unlike copyrights, patents expire. For the first decade or so, NTSC color TV required a patent license from RCA (who incidentally sold its consumer electronics division to the company that now controls the MP3 patent). Unless you're fairly old, your reference point for comparison is probably sets produced in 1973 or later, over 20 years after NTSC was standardized. Likewise, ATSC is based on the same codecs as DVD (AC-3 audio and MPEG-2 video), so essential codec patents will expire within the next half decade.

  9. Cable Companies pulled a fast one in the switch by sprior · · Score: 4, Insightful

    In the analog days there were effectively three tiers of programming on cable - broadcast channels, cable only non-premium stuff, and premium channels like HBO. Since it was hard to encrypt a channel the middle tier channels were left in the clear. So as long as you had cable ready TVs you only really needed a cable box for the TVs you wanted to be able to watch the premium tier channels on, secondary TVs like kitchen, home office, workshop TVs could work just fine without one.

    With digital that changed, so instead of just switching from analog->digital the cable companies are switching from analog->ENCRYPTED digital and telling the public that it had to be that way all along - it didn't. So except for the broadcast networks which are required to be in the clear soon you'll need a cable box for EVERY TV in your house, not just the ones you wanted the premium channels on.

    And what did the FCC do for us on this?? Cablecard was a failure and when they were available at all the only Cablecard equipped TVs were the high end ones - WRONG!!! For the really big TVs in your house having a cable box is less of a problem than it is for the small TV in your kitchen/office/workshop. The FCC mandated that every HD TV have a digital tuner, and that seems to include a tuner for unencrypted digital cable channels, but the cable industry is making sure that there won't be many of those, so that tuner is all but useless unless you get your signal over the air.

    The FCC tried to use Cablecard so we wouldn't have to rent as many cable boxes. The result? You'll need more cable boxes than you ever did before.