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80-Year-Old Edison Recording Resurrected

embolalia writes "An 80-year-old recording of a live radio broadcast featuring Thomas Edison has been uncovered and reconstituted. The recording was done on an obscure technology called a pallophotophone — Greek for 'shaking light sound' — that uses optical film to reproduce sound. The archivists who uncovered the canisters tucked away on a bottom shelf in a museum in Schenectady, New York (the city where Edison's General Electric was founded), did not have any machine to replay the films. Two GE engineers — working nights and weekends for two years — were able to construct a machine to replay the old tapes, recorded only two years before Edison's death." There's a video at the link, which may or may not contain some of the resurrected recording, but we couldn't get it to play from the Times Union site.

34 of 133 comments (clear)

  1. Link to the video by endikos · · Score: 5, Informative
    1. Re:Link to the video by manofyunk · · Score: 3, Informative

      Link to actual recording that was recovered:
      http://link.brightcove.com/services/player/bcpid1407952373?bctid=96943642001

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  2. We couldn't get it to play from the Times Union... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    You need the Flash 10.2 beta which accelerates pallophotophone files.

  3. phallophotophone??? by Black+Parrot · · Score: 4, Funny

    Weren't we talking about this in the chatroulette story a few days ago?

    --
    Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
  4. Working Video Link by GoblinSoul · · Score: 3, Informative
    1. Re:Working Video Link by nschubach · · Score: 3, Informative

      That's great and all, but I wanted to hear Edison...

      (The video is a short clip of the story on what it took to create the machine and there's about 3 seconds of the radio program at the end.)

      --
      Every time I start to have faith in humanity, I ruin it by driving to work between 7 and 8 am.
    2. Re:Working Video Link by likerice · · Score: 3, Informative
  5. Neither Only nor Best by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    This is neither the only recording of the broadcast, nor the best. A recording of the broadcast made by Edison's own technicians on his then-state-of-the-art 30 RPM radio transcription system was restored by Professor Mike Biel and released by Mark 56 Records three decades ago.

    1. Re:Neither Only nor Best by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

      And the link to this story/media would be where???

      http://www.midcoast.com/~lizmcl/earlyradio.html

      "2/11/29--Thomas Edison Birthday Tribute. NBC Blue Network. WJZ aircheck recorded by the Edison Company. Another recording unearthed by Dr. Biel at the Edison Site. According to radio listings of the day, this was an hour-long tribute to Edison on his 88th birthday intended as the first in a series of Edison-sponsored programs. The climax of the program was a short talk by the inventor himself. Approximately forty minutes of the program were recorded on two "Rayediphonic" discs, but an electronic failure in the recording amplifier made it impossible to record the entire program."

    2. Re:Neither Only nor Best by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      Sorry, correct URL, wrong paragraph:

      10/21/29--Light’s Golden Jubilee Celebration. NBC Blue network. WJZ aircheck recorded by the Edison Company on "Rayediphonic" discs. The fiftieth anniversary of the invention of the light bulb is observed in this special program from Dearborn. Michigan. An array of luminaries including President Hoover pay tribute to Edison and his invention. Edison himself also speaks, and participates in a re-enactment of the first lighting of the electric lamp. Albert Einstien speaks by shortwave from Berlin, but reception is extremely poor. The recording includes the earliest surviving version of the NBC chimes -- a five note progression very much unlike the standard G-E-C. The complete one-hour program was recorded, but a tape copy is in circulation via the National Archives which has been edited to approximately 32 minutes.

      There are some valuable one-of-a-kind recordings in this newly-restored group. It's just that the Edison one isn't among them.

    3. Re:Neither Only nor Best by negRo_slim · · Score: 2, Insightful

      This is neither the only recording of the broadcast, nor the best. A recording of the broadcast made by Edison's own technicians on his then-state-of-the-art 30 RPM radio transcription system was restored by Professor Mike Biel and released by Mark 56 Records three decades ago.

      So I guess there is no value in having a different format and a different physical object with which to gauge the recordings against one another? There is no value in the recreation of a long dead invention of a fabled inventor? Is there no value in restoring one more part of our ever fading past?

      --
      On the Oregon Cost born and raised, On the beach is where I spent most of my days
  6. Old technology more lasting by Gazoogleheimer · · Score: 5, Insightful

    In some ways, it is interesting to think that it is technically easier to recover data from this sort of recording (and likewise, other analog systems like magnetic reel-to-reel tape and records) long after the means to recover the data are lost compared to more modern, computerized formats. I sometimes worry about the 'lasting-ness' of all my JPEG photography compared to my film negatives through this same issue.

    1. Re:Old technology more lasting by phantomfive · · Score: 2, Insightful

      That is a silly worry. All you have to do is keep on top of it, and make sure you have a backup. You can change from tape to disk to usb key to whatever else comes along and not lose a single byte of data.

      Analog data, including your film negatives, degrade over time, and can never be recovered. If people care about your stuff, it's much more likely to be around a hundred years from now in digital format than in analog format.

      --
      Qxe4
    2. Re:Old technology more lasting by smellsofbikes · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I sometimes worry about the 'lasting-ness' of all my JPEG photography compared to my film negatives through this same issue.

      What you need is a distributed, persistent, peer-to-peer file system. Luckily, just such a thing can be built cheaply, using commodity hardware and software. Include a 19 year old woman who isn't wearing a shirt in each of your photographs, and you can be guaranteed that you will have 100% retention and worldwide availability of your photography hundreds of years into the future.

      --
      Nostalgia's not what it used to be.
  7. Scanner by grahamsz · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Is there any reason you wouldn't just make a high resolution scan of the film and attempt to process it from there? Certainly I understand the satisfaction in making a physical machine, but doesn't that risk a lot more damage to the original media?

    1. Re:Scanner by slimjim8094 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      My thoughts exactly. IIRC, for the old wax-cylinder recordings that wouldn't survive a playback, they used a laser "stylus" to measure the exact depth and variation of the grooves down to fractions of a mm, and were able to play it back no problem. They got a higher-quality sound off the drum then even the destructive stylus would've managed.

      That's the thing about digital formats going obsolete - as long as the information can be represented as a series of bits on whatever the current computer is, anybody can build or recreate a software 'machine' to decode/convert them. And any guy with a computer can do that... it doesn't need the resources of a couple of engineers from GE.

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    2. Re:Scanner by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Is there any reason you wouldn't just make a high resolution scan of the film and attempt to process it from there? Certainly I understand the satisfaction in making a physical machine, but doesn't that risk a lot more damage to the original media?

      I used to live down the street from John Schneider (one of the engineers who worked on this). He's actually a multi-millionaire who started his own company a few years back and it's pretty cool that he's still getting his hands dirty with things like this.
      Here's a bio.. http://www.spoke.com/info/pOzZMi/JohnSchneiter

      Although he's a really smart guy, he's not really super computer savvy - as is common for a lot of MechEs so it makes sense that he would try to solve this problem using hardware since that's what he knows. Naturally myself (and likely most software guys) would get a high resolution scanner out and write some code to "playback" the stored audio. I've seen similar applications for playing old records that don't require actually touching the record with a needle. Regardless, you really only need to play it once and digitize the audio so the concern of multiple playbacks ruining the film isn't that big of a concern.

      All in all a really cool hack!

    3. Re:Scanner by CohibaVancouver · · Score: 4, Funny

      the skills required to decode something like an mp4 file are going to be far in excess of what these two guys needed

      Yes and no... In 100 years it will probably go something like this:

      "Hey, Computer."
      "Yo."
      "I found this 100 year old computer file. Can you decode it for me?"
      "Sure, just a second."
      "Done. It appears to be a video of a caucasian human singing a song from the year 1987."
      "Really? What song?"
      "Never Gonna Give You Up..."

      I suspect 100 years from now reading the data off a thumb drive, CD or DVD will be a bigger challenge that actually decoding the file...

    4. Re:Scanner by mangu · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I suspect 100 years from now reading the data off a thumb drive, CD or DVD will be a bigger challenge that actually decoding the file...

      100 years from now we will probably have desktop universal disassemblers that can record the position of every atom in an object. That will take care of thumb drives. CDs and DVDs will be even easier, use that high-resolution ultraviolet scanner to read the surface.

    5. Re:Scanner by Bryan3000000 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      My thoughts as well. However, judging by the opinions of the archivists at the Library of Congress, photographic media are a terrifically better long-term preservation strategy than magnetic tape or magnetic media of any variety: http://www.boingboing.net/2010/06/09/gallery-digitizing-t.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+boingboing/iBag+(Boing+Boing)

      It seems to me that you could get incredible fidelity and preservation characteristics for audio recordings by using photographic media, which could then be played back either with a machine or as you suggest, by scanning. I'm sure it would be possible to construct a continuous feed scanner that could output either to an image file or process directly to an audio stream.

      Either way, it seems like these guys took the long way through the problem, essentially trying to re-create an original machine rather than using modern technology to read what was on the tape. I'm guessing a continuous-feed scanner with reels attached could be hacked relatively quickly from mostly commodity parts, and the doing the rest in software would be far more interesting and hold far more long-term usefulness. I'm betting you could get it to produce an image plus simultaneous analog and digital data-streams from one sensor.

  8. go kdawson by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    There's a video at the link, which may or may not contain some of the resurrected recording, but we couldn't get it to play from the Times Union site.

    Why am I not surprised that kdawson wasn't able to figure out how to take the javascript popup link and add it to the base url of the Times Union site?

  9. Oct 21, 1929 by smitty97 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    And a week later, the markets crashed.

    --
    mod me funny
  10. Content still under copyright? by linebackn · · Score: 5, Insightful

    1929? So the entirety of the content from those things would still be under copyright, right?

    Eh, torrent link plz.

  11. Zippity do dah gone forever! by erroneus · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It is during instances and moments like these that we should be reminded of exactly how bad it is to protect content and patent data processing methods. These are the surest ways for us to lose the historical data we are creating today. Already, losses of great works have been lost due to lack of republication because copyright has not expired before the last copies were lost forever. If it were not for a few brave individuals, Disney's "Song of the South" would be lost forever today as they will never EVER publish it again and it is not available for sale anywhere.

    And more and more, we are seeing technologies phasing out... floppy disks... anyone got an 8" floppy drive laying around? What about 5 1/4" No? I still have a few USB 3.5" floppy drives but that was only to make a floppy disk RAID for fun. We might find some paper tape somewhere in an archive out there in a dark closet, but will we find a reader for it?

    The push for "open formats" is precisely about better guaranteeing that data will be available in the future and so few people are willing to listen or understand. "DOC" is the standard right?

    1. Re:Zippity do dah gone forever! by kommisar · · Score: 2, Informative

      Patent rights only last 20 years from filing. Copyright however, is much longer. Don't get your IP protections schemes all tied in a bunch!

    2. Re:Zippity do dah gone forever! by kevinmenzel · · Score: 2, Informative

      Song of the South was released commercially in the UK on PAL VHS. So by brave souls do you mean "the people who bought it when it was commercially released on home video who happen to not be American?"

  12. Re:Wait thirty years... by Cwix · · Score: 4, Funny

    Dont worry, those engineers obviously spent two years working on breaking Edison's DRM, I hear hes planning on returing from the dead, and suing for 150k.

    --
    You are entitled to your own opinions, not your own facts.
  13. Link to the audio by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative
  14. Thanks! by SuperKendall · · Score: 2, Informative

    Finally, the full audio. Really exciting to think of all the audio they can save this way, and bring forward for more permanent storage.

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
  15. In other news ... (yes, cue lawsuit) by Lead+Butthead · · Score: 3, Informative

    Law firm representing NBC has filed suit alleging their client's copyrights have been violated for unauthorized rebroadcasting of the film content. "The audio programs recorded on those films are wholly owned intellectual properties belonging to our client, and their unauthorized rebroadcasting over the web is a willful theft of our client's intellectual properties. We fully intend to pursue this matter for the maximum payou... punitive damage under our law... ahm, the law."

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  16. Re:We couldn't get it to play from the Times Union by NeumannCons · · Score: 3, Funny

    They've pulled the beta off of their website. They received a letter from the lawyers representing the estate of Edison. The lawyers clients are claiming ownership of the ip rights to all pallotophone codecs and pallotophone encryption/decryption algorithms. Said counsel for Bubba Edison - Mr. G. R. White, "Mr. Edison is seeking to ride on his Great Grandfathers coat tails -we aim to help him since that's the right thing to do - and the fact that he's paying us lots of money". Mr. White was not immediately available for comment as he was participating in a feeding frenzy.

  17. Link to actual project at General Electric by Animats · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Link to actual project at General Electric, including access to the Edison audio.

    1. Re:Link to actual project at General Electric by RodRooter · · Score: 2, Informative

      The mods here need to read history. Perhaps I can say something sympathetic to the flat-earthers to get modded up?

      Perhaps something kind to the 9-11 truthers. Wow Slashdot, you've gone crazy yo.

  18. More Informative Video by ryanleary · · Score: 2, Informative

    A more informative video can be found here with one of the engineers describing its function while it plays back some old recordings.