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German Radar Satellite Lifts Off Tonight

Posted by kdawson on from the ready-for-my-closeup dept.

2Y9D57 writes "Germany's new TanDEM-X radar satellite is scheduled to lift off from Baikonur Cosmodrome at 04:15 Berlin time on 21 June — that's 10:14 pm Eastern today (20 June). Flying in close formation with its twin satellite, TerraSAR-X, TanDEM-X will generate the most consistent and highest-resolution digital elevation map ever of the Earth — 12m = 40ft. pixel pitch. It will take three years to image all 150 million square kilometers (58 million square miles), in the process generating more than 350 TB of raw data. Here's where to go as the time approaches for live streaming."

48 of 65 comments (clear)

  1. Another proprietary dataset? by chrb · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Unfortunately, despite being partly publically funded by the German taxpayer, it appears the complete dataset will be considered proprietary for the commercial exploitation of Infoterra GmbH.

    1. Re:Another proprietary dataset? by 2Y9D57 · · Score: 4, Informative

      Infoterra GmbH will be responsible for commercial sales of the data. The German Aerospace Center deal with the scientific utilization.

    2. Re:Another proprietary dataset? by chrb · · Score: 1

      The German Aerospace Center deal with the scientific utilization.

      Yes, it appears that the dataset is available under license to select individuals at university type establishments, after applying for permission, telling them what your research project is, and paying a license fee. You will have no right to reproduce the data, etc. etc. Will an individual unconnected with a research institute be allowed to use the data? Will OpenStreetMap be allowed to use the data? Can the dataset be reproduced and distributed alongside open source GIS software?

    3. Re:Another proprietary dataset? by 2Y9D57 · · Score: 3, Informative

      The German Aerospace Center deal with the scientific utilization.

      and paying a license fee

      data sets will be provided under COFUR (Cost Of Fulfilling User Request) conditions

    4. Re:Another proprietary dataset? by TooMuchToDo · · Score: 1

      So I assume Google could pay the COFUR and integrate into Google Maps very inexpensively?

    5. Re:Another proprietary dataset? by the_other_chewey · · Score: 4, Informative

      data sets will be provided under COFUR (Cost Of Fulfilling User Request) conditions

      ...to parties that submit a request with a good reason and get it approved.

      You can't just show up with a bunch of hard drives and ask for the data, even if you're
      prepared to pay for costs that would produce.

      ESA (and ESA-related, TerraSAR is German-only) projects have a long and annoying history
      of keeping their data under wraps despite public funding and no objections by the scientific
      parties (priorities of potential discoveries matter) involved.

      Until this changes, it's still SRTM data for everyone.

    6. Re:Another proprietary dataset? by Hurricane78 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Waddaya mean “commercial sales’? It’s paid by the taxpayer, and so everyone of us (writing as a German taxpayer) must have access to it. Or else I think it is pretty much illegal.

      And if everyone has access to it, and has already paid for it, who’s gonna pay for it again?
      Can people really be that stupid to do this? ... ...who am I kidding? :/

      --
      Any sufficiently advanced intelligence is indistinguishable from stupidity.
    7. Re:Another proprietary dataset? by 2Y9D57 · · Score: 1

      Waddaya mean “commercial sales’? It’s paid by the taxpayer, and so everyone of us (writing as a German taxpayer) must have access to it. Or else I think it is pretty much illegal.

      Dear Mr Taxpayer, Your raw data is ready -- 220,000 DVDs -- where do you want them?

    8. Re:Another proprietary dataset? by jeti · · Score: 2, Insightful

      A substantial part of the project cost is shouldered by private companies, not taxpayers.

    9. Re:Another proprietary dataset? by Bootsy+Collins · · Score: 1

      Crud. The very first thing I thought of when I saw this was "cool, a high-res DEM to create terrain for FlightGear." SRTM is getting long in the tooth.

  2. ah, the logic of it by yyxx · · Score: 2, Funny

    So, let me see whether I get this right:

    Google taking street photos = bad (according to Germans).

    The German government making high resolution elevation maps from space = good (according to Germans).

    Where can I complain if I don't want my private property mapped by the German government?

    1. Re:ah, the logic of it by fatnickc · · Score: 3, Funny

      Apparently Google's suggestion that people build a wall if they didn't want photos to be taken didn't go down so well

    2. Re:ah, the logic of it by 2Y9D57 · · Score: 5, Funny

      Where can I complain if I don't want my private property mapped by the German government?

      Don't worry. The reflection from your tinfoil hat will blind the radar over your house.

    3. Re:ah, the logic of it by dov_0 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The elevation above sea level of the land one lives on is hardly personal or private information... A photograph of one's house, car, children playing on the lawn etc could be considered to be somewhat different.

      --
      sudo mount --milk --sugar /cup/tea /mouth /etc/init.d/relax start
    4. Re:ah, the logic of it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      This isn't a high resolution photo form the street through your living room window. It has a 12m (40ft) resolution. If you have something on your property that is more than 40ft long, I suspect people may already be aware of it.

    5. Re:ah, the logic of it by MrNonchalant · · Score: 1

      Not France. Nor Poland. Austria is right out.

    6. Re:ah, the logic of it by hedwards · · Score: 3, Funny

      You must be one fat bastard to be showing up on a 12 meter pixel pitch image. I'm really curious as to how you get around if you're being covered by multiple pixels.

    7. Re:ah, the logic of it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      Um, because there's a difference between a PHOTO and an ELEVATION MAP? This isn't actually gonna show a picture, after all. All it's gonna show is "this point is 20 m above sea level, this point is 40 m above sea level".

      You're insane if you're comparing this to Google Street View.

    8. Re:ah, the logic of it by RevWaldo · · Score: 1

      Human sacrifice, Russians and Germans working together, mass hysteria!

      .

      --
      Prisencolinensinainciusol. Ol Rait!
    9. Re:ah, the logic of it by EdIII · · Score: 2, Funny

      Some of us here on Slashdot will take up multiple pixels, but only when we get excited.

    10. Re:ah, the logic of it by Sir_Lewk · · Score: 1

      Cue wingnuts complaining about the German government bombarding them with ZOMG RADIATION.

      News at 11: Is the German Government giving your children brain cancer!?!?!?

      --
      "linux is just DOS with a UNIX like syntax" -- Galactic Dominator (944134)
    11. Re:ah, the logic of it by yyxx · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You're insane if you're comparing this to Google Street View.

      The kind of insane objections people make to Street View also can be made here: "it's my personal property, nobody has a right to image it", "people are making money with this data, I want my cut", and "people may be using the data to plan crimes against my property".

      Why do you think those objections should apply to a "PHOTO" but not an "ELEVATION MAP"?

    12. Re:ah, the logic of it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Relax, nobody wants to steal the little hill on your ground. It will still be there in 10 years.

    13. Re:ah, the logic of it by V+for+Vendetta · · Score: 1

      Russians and Germans working together

      For the most part of our history, Prussians and Russians had a good, helpful relation.

  3. Bloody typical by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    It's launching in Europe on the 21st June but on the 20th in the USA. Why is the good shit always released in the US first?

    </typicalslashdotrant>

  4. 40ft / pixel resolution is not tha high resolution by clevelandguru · · Score: 2, Informative

    At 40ft per pixel resolution, a normal 2 floored house will show as a single pixel above ground.

  5. Re:40ft / pixel resolution is not tha high resolut by Brett+Buck · · Score: 2, Interesting

    It's decent for SAR. Of course people have done *much much better* before. 40 feet for the entire Earth is a decent goal for civilian/commercial uses.

  6. Re:40ft / pixel resolution is not tha high resolut by hedwards · · Score: 2

    I've no doubt that they could've done much better. I suspect they didn't want to spend 20 years doing it.

  7. Hope they image Area 51 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

    and also Area 51A!

  8. Zee Germans are coming? by denzacar · · Score: 3, Funny

    Poor rabbits...

    --
    Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
    1. Re:Zee Germans are coming? by 2Y9D57 · · Score: 2

      Poor rabbits...

      Not, rabbits -- hares.

      With stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain.

  9. Re:what about Google? by grimJester · · Score: 1

    If you saw a pic of your mom naked on Google street view side by side with a 40 ft resolution height map of her naked you might see why the latter is not a privacy issue.

  10. Re:His mama is so fat... by M8e · · Score: 4, Informative

    that she can be identified on a 40 ft resolution height map.

  11. Re:what about Google? by 2Y9D57 · · Score: 3, Informative

    No idea what other advantages radar has

    It works through cloud cover and at night.

  12. 12m resolution? Pffft. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    TanDEM-X will generate the most consistent and highest-resolution digital elevation map ever of the Earth — 12m = 40ft. pixel pitch.

    The US had ten times better than that twenty years ago.

    1. Re:12m resolution? Pffft. by Menchi · · Score: 1

      However, this high resolution would come at the expense of broad coverage, and would be achievable over an area of only a few tens of kilometers square.

      You might not believe it, but the earth has a surface of more tens of square kilometres. The site doesn't have any real data on the actual speed of this thing, but it looks like that thing is something completely different (a military spy satellite) and might take dozens of years to cover the whole planets or even longer. If it is even capable of producing a coherent map, this doesn't seem to be in the design specifications.

      --
      Today's experiment ...... failed
  13. Re:what about Google? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    also ignores some plant life, giving a picture of the actual ground.

  14. Re:40ft / pixel resolution is not tha high resolut by Kjella · · Score: 3, Interesting

    They can actually do much better, from what I gather on this site. Their highest 300 MHz high resolution spotlight mode will do down to 1.1x1.1 meter, but the main mode that'll sweep the earth is significantly coarser. Still in relative terms I must say the development here is huge...

    --
    Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
  15. Yawn... How about WTFV? by denzacar · · Score: 1

    Watching The Fine Video? It is there for a reason...
    You know... for all those people NOT remembering the actual quote.

    Also... "Poor rabbits" sounds way better than "poor hares". It has more... "ZING!" to it.

    --
    Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
  16. elevation map? by boxcarjoe688 · · Score: 1

    the correct term is topographic or relief map. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Topographic_map

    1. Re:elevation map? by 2Y9D57 · · Score: 1

      the correct term is topographic or relief map. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Topographic_map

      The correct term is digital elevation model.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_elevation_model

      My mistake. Got my maps and my models muddled.

  17. Not particularly high resolution by barath_s · · Score: 1

    I guess the fact that one satellite system will cover the entire earth is notable. Though I assume you could get a patchwork to cover the earth at finer resolution from elsewhere. However, 12 m is still rather coarse, even for commercial imagery. http://www.antrix.gov.in/earth_observation.html "... it offers these data in a multi resolution package of 1m, 2.5m, 5m, 23m, 56m and 180m with suitable spectral resolutions ..." http://www.geoeye.com/CorpSite/products/imagery-sources/Comparison.aspx 0.41, 0.5 and 1 m resolution commercial packages. Barath

  18. Re:40ft / pixel resolution is not tha high resolut by initialE · · Score: 1

    Has it ever occurred to you, that they're advertising 40ft/pixel, but the actual capabilities of the satellite may not actually match the description? What incentive would any government have in telling you the truth when it regards your privacy issues?

    --
    Starbucks, Harbuckle of Breath.
  19. Yo Momma .. by freaker_TuC · · Score: 1

    Redefines those "Yo Momma is so fat .. " jokes all at once ..

    --
    --- I am known for the ones who want to find me on the net. Is that a privacy risk or a privilege? One might wonder..
  20. In the USA: yes, in Germany: no by saibot834 · · Score: 2, Informative

    In the USA, all government works are in the public domain, which leads to NASA images and others being usable by the public and due to the copyright status, also by Wikipedia.

    In Germany, a different concept was chosen. The general idea is that mostly private corporation want to use works by the government, e.g. publishers of books, maps, etc. In order to give a bit of the money spend on the works back to the taxpayer, everyone who wants to use those images has to pay royalties. This results in slightly less costs for the taxpayer, which is exactly the goal of that concept.

    However, this approach is no longer viable. In the digital age, everyone is a potential user of works by the government, including works like maps and satellite images. NGOs like Wikimedia Deutschland (the German chapter of Wikimedia and supporter of the Wikipedia project) are lobbying to free those images. But the laws are, as usual, at least 10 years behind the technological and sociotechnical development.

  21. Swords into Ploughshares by Zoxed · · Score: 1

    I love these launches using converted Russian ICBMs: literally Swords into Ploughshares :-)

    1. Re:Swords into Ploughshares by s122604 · · Score: 1

      Hmm, I had my suspicions the Germans were up to no good.

      Now the Russians are in on it too
      how the hell am I supposed to tinfoil my entire property?

  22. Somebody in Germany afraid of getting wet? by ibsteve2u · · Score: 1

    Good database to have, if you wanted to be able to isolate your land acquisitions to those areas which would be unaffected by - or would benefit from - rising sea levels.

    Caused by whatever.

    --
    Orwell: "In a Time of Universal Deceit, telling the Truth is a Revolutionary Act"