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Apple Wants To Share Your Location With Others

Posted by kdawson on from the leaving-more-than-virtual-tracks dept.

Farhood sends in this snip from the LA Times: "In an updated version of its privacy policy, the company added a paragraph noting that once users agree, Apple and unspecified 'partners and licensees' may collect and store user location data. When users attempt to download apps or media from the iTunes store, they are prompted to agree to the new terms and conditions. Until they agree, they cannot download anything through the store. The company says the data is anonymous and does not personally identify users. Analysts have shown, however, that large, specific data sets can be used to identify people based on behavior patterns." Mashable and The Consumerist have picked up on this collection and sharing of "precise location data, including the real-time geographic location of your Apple computer or device."

41 of 248 comments (clear)

  1. Beh by Hognoxious · · Score: 5, Insightful

    s/share/sell/

    s/with/to/

    --
    Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
  2. Isn't this exactly what we lambaste Google for? by mjwx · · Score: 5, Insightful
    Isn't this exactly what we lambaste Google for?

    In an updated version of its privacy policy, the company added a paragraph noting that once users agree, Apple and unspecified 'partners and licensees' may collect and store user location data.

    Well not quite, Google does not explicitly state they are planning on selling your data.

    When users attempt to download apps or media from the iTunes store, they are prompted to agree to the new terms and conditions. Until they agree, they cannot download anything through the store.

    Does anyone still wonder why it is bad to be beholden to a single supply chain?

    So Apple does not want you to have freedom or respects your privacy.

    --
    Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
    1. Re:Isn't this exactly what we lambaste Google for? by dmbasso · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Naive. :)

      A very good friend once told me: "If you put your balls in their hands, don't complain if they decide to squeeze them". That was almost ten years ago, and he was referring to Microsoft, but see how it fits perfectly with a lot of companies, including Apple.

      --
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    2. Re:Isn't this exactly what we lambaste Google for? by goombah99 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It's not necessarily the same thing that google does.

      When you install an app that uses location data then the app almost certainly already knows exactly who you are, no inferences needed. So the question is not if apps are accessing your location data but if apple is downloading it to the mothership and selling this to third parties whose apps you did not purchase. However there that daya may or may not be processed before handing over. For example, if they hand over a string of locations and times you visit (the bagel shop, starbucks, the metro, the work place, the home then that associated sequence probably nails you uniquely. If they instead hand over a historgram of city block vistis that aggregate over all users and don't link the records then this data will be fairly anonymous aside from edge cases (e.g. perhaps they can figure out you are indeed the bridge tender on the brooklyn bridge.) So it depends on what level of correlation they are handing over and if it's to third parties or apps that you installed.

      Every time I install a googls chrome plugin I cringe cause it tells me it needs access to my browsing history and bookmarks. But then I relax slightly because at least I'm choosing to install this not have it handed over to third parties. What I worry more about is the google searches themselves. that string of associates goes to google and I suspect they are indeed correlating these.

      --
      Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
  3. At least they tell you.. by onion2k · · Score: 2, Interesting

    What the update means is that they've relaxed the application vetting so apps that use the geolocation API aren't scrutinised as much as they used to be. Apple are telling users that apps can, and will, collect and store your location data, and that they're not going to stop them even if there's no reason for the app to be doing it. The app will still ask you if you want to share your location as it always has done.

    Who tells you that might be happening if you have an Android phone? Or if you install a browser that enables the geolocation services of HTML 5 on your PC (eg http://html5demos.com/geo )? No one. They don't have to. They can't really, because there isn't a "gatekeeper" controlling it all.

    --
    http://twitter.com/onion2k
    1. Re:At least they tell you.. by MrHanky · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It's different from Google like this: Quoting Cory Doctorow: "This is different from Android, in that Google does not gather your information unless you opt in, and if you do opt in, you can opt out later.

      "By contrast, Apple gathers your information without asking you to opt in, and does not present you with the option of opting out.

      "What's more, Apple is presenting these new terms retrospectively. People who bought iPads and iPods on the understanding that they could be used without having their location information gathered and shared now find that they *must* allow this information to be gathered and shared (I suppose you could try not updating iTunes, but then you would also have to not upgrade your OS -- OS upgrades come with iTunes upgrades -- and be prepared to be locked out of the app store, and since Apple's use of DRM prevents third parties from putting apps on your devices, you're fundamentally abandoning any hope of loading any code, even third-party code, onto your iPad and iPod)."

      Of course, he may or may not be correct.

    2. Re:At least they tell you.. by mrsurb · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Read the parent that you're responding to! His point is that Apple is applying these terms to people AFTER they have bought the phone. It's an automatic opt-in unless you want to go to a lot of effort to sit outside Apple's walled garden, at which point you lose a big proportion of the value of the phone that you have already paid for.

      For new customers, sure it's opt-in/opt-out, buy Apple or not. But if you do, don't be surprised at the next swift one that Apple pulls.

    3. Re:At least they tell you.. by silanea · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Which part of "retroactive" needs to be explained to you? They change the license not just for new customers but also for existing users, effectively rendering their devices useless as far as many advertised features are concerned unless they agree to the new terms.

      --
      Rudolf Hess edited Mein Kampf. He was the very first grammar nazi.
    4. Re:At least they tell you.. by AHuxley · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Apple is doing a Sony, kowtow to new "options".

      --
      Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
    5. Re:At least they tell you.. by MrHanky · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Certainly. But people really need to be made aware that they should not buy from Apple if they don't want to be spied on. Don't you agree?

      Of course you don't: if you did, you wouldn't cough up that bullshit pseudoargument of "don't buy it if you don't like it" (i.e.: "stop complaining, as no one forces you to buy it").

    6. Re:At least they tell you.. by MrHanky · · Score: 2, Informative

      "Opting out applies only to Apple advertising services and does not affect" the collection and dissemination of location data.

    7. Re:At least they tell you.. by Xest · · Score: 5, Informative

      "Who tells you that might be happening if you have an Android phone? Or if you install a browser that enables the geolocation services of HTML 5 on your PC (eg http://html5demos.com/geo )? No one. They don't have to."

      Wrong. Each time you install an Android app, before accepting installation you've given a run down of what permissions the app requires, this includes things like internet access, or making phone calls, but also includes things like judging your rough location using cell masts etc., or judging your fine grained location using GPS. Regarding Google services doing geolocation, that's an option you'll get first time you turn your phone on and can easily change in the menus later if you choose if it has the Google apps pre-installed. I'm not sure why you think they can't stop it on Android, because Android has a marketplace too and all but the most technical users who know the risks anyway use this path for installing apps.

      As for IP based geolocation on a PC, frankly I could care less. Even if I'm not using a VPN or something the best they can do is judge my location to be in an area large enough to contain a population of 20 million people. Apart from telling my country that's largely useless information, and that's all it's really used for as it's all that it can be used for, certainly it's not really enough to track you as an individual over and above what your IP already allows.

    8. Re:At least they tell you.. by kangsterizer · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You're missing the point dear fanboy nr 9283476573,5 (yeah you're a half person, at least these numbers say so! sry!)

      The point is that this policy _did not exist when you bought the phone_, you are then FORCED to accept the new policy if you want to be able to get more apps, or just updates the ones you own. Oh yeah, you can also sell the phone for a lesser value than you paid for it, and likely you're subsidized so you're going to have to pay a new one full price like $500 or $600 (while your subscription to AT&T still makes you pay money for the first iPhone of course!).

      Basically, owned by Apple (yet again).

      Got it yet?

    9. Re:At least they tell you.. by tpgp · · Score: 4, Informative

      Who tells you that might be happening if you have an Android phone?

      The Android Operating system tells you on installation.

      Or if you install a browser that enables the geolocation services of HTML 5 on your PC?

      Well, that browser is also an application - and android tells you on installation that it can access (amongst others), the following permission: "Your Location: coarse (network based) location, fine (GPS) location."

      No one. They don't have to. They can't really, because there isn't a "gatekeeper" controlling it all.

      Don't believe everything the iPhone fanboys tell you. The above statement is totally incorrect.

      --
      My pics.
    10. Re:At least they tell you.. by MrHanky · · Score: 2, Informative

      Wrong. You have to agree to the new terms if you want to update you iGadget.

    11. Re:At least they tell you.. by Xest · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The link in question works using a browser feature that uploads information about you such as your IP, access points near you, and that sort of thing. This is why Google was farming access point data when they did street view.

      So in the case of even these most intrusive things, the GP I was responding to is wrong regarding warnings, because your browser warns you. My comments were really targetted towards general IP geolocation that doesn't depend on browser uploads.

      Personally I'd just keep browser based geolocation disabled, and it is by default in Firefox and I believe other browsers just like things such as password storage are.

    12. Re:At least they tell you.. by Lupu · · Score: 2, Interesting

      People who bought iPads and iPods on the understanding that they could be used without having their location information gathered and shared now find that they *must* allow this information to be gathered and shared (I suppose you could try not updating iTunes, but then you would also have to not upgrade your OS -- OS upgrades come with iTunes upgrades -- and be prepared to be locked out of the app store, and since Apple's use of DRM prevents third parties from putting apps on your devices, you're fundamentally abandoning any hope of loading any code, even third-party code, onto your iPad and iPod).

      Sounds like a class action lawsuit waiting to happen.

    13. Re:At least they tell you.. by dwinks616 · · Score: 2, Informative

      Every application on Android that uses GPS or Coarse location data explicitly tells you it does when you install it, and if upgraded, it also tells you that it pulls location data if it still uses it, or if the upgrade added that feature. Nothing on the Android store can use GPS data without you knowing.

    14. Re:At least they tell you.. by farble1670 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Who tells you that might be happening if you have an Android phone?

      wrong.

      on android, and app must explicitly declare the services it needs to access in its manifest, and those permission are shown to to the user before they install the app. that includes permission to obtain the user's location.

  4. Not an Apple issue by Yvanhoe · · Score: 4, Informative

    Any cell phone provider has the power to do exactly this. This is despicable, that Apple or anyone else does, but this is the kind of thing we have to expect from the current carriers and the current, almost inexistent, framework of laws protecting privacy.

    --
    The Wise adapts himself to the world. The Fool adapts the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the Fool.
    1. Re:Not an Apple issue by SupremoMan · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Yes but if a cell phone carrier tried to do this, they would lose plenty of consumers to the competing carriers.

    2. Re:Not an Apple issue by Yvanhoe · · Score: 4, Insightful

      How do you know they are not already doing this ?

      --
      The Wise adapts himself to the world. The Fool adapts the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the Fool.
  5. Who would trust Apple with by DarkEntity · · Score: 4, Funny

    this degree of Latitude?

  6. The next iOS EULA by Exitar · · Score: 4, Funny

    I've heard it will introduce Ius primae noctis
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Droit_de_seigneur

    The worrying part will be reading how Apple fanbois will be very proud of having Jobs "test ride" their brides.

    1. Re:The next iOS EULA by Rude+Turnip · · Score: 2, Funny

      I think they would be jealous of their brides.

      --
      Bill Clinton: Pimp we can believe in. - The Shirt!!!
  7. Re:Big deal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    "Until they agree, they cannot download anything through the store."

    Lrn2read.

  8. Won't be long before it is not by Shivetya · · Score: 2, Insightful

    and you find yourself not able to get updates of any sort. Since the "i" devices are so intertwined with iTunes it pretty much guarantees you will have to keep current eventually. Having an opt out on what is nearly mandatory software isn't much an opt out is it.

    --
    * Winners compare their achievements to their goals, losers compare theirs to that of others.
  9. Redownload by mwvdlee · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Can you still re-download apps you purchased under an old agreement without signing the new agreement?

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  10. Finally a tool for locating 'cheap' iPads by slincolne · · Score: 2, Funny
    There have been many attempts by people to track down stocks of iPads in shops - now Apple is building a database of what iPads are where.

    Considering the other attractive, valuable goods their owners may also have the value of this data to criminals will be quite high.

    Of course it is safe (you can trust Apple) and their servers are secure (nobody ever hacked a Mac) and their partners can be trusted (AT&T are a good company).

    :-)

  11. Re:slashdot broken today by AHuxley · · Score: 2, Insightful

    lol "It's even better than reading an Apple press release"

    --
    Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
  12. Anybody care to comment on... by L4t3r4lu5 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Firstly, will this bring about any (if present) early termination clause in contracts as a "significant change in terms?"

    Secondly, as this is Hobson's Choice (Accept or lose access to the App Store) will it fall foul of unfair terms in consumer contract legislation?

    --
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  13. There is a simple fix by blake1 · · Score: 3, Informative
    Settings > General > Location Services

    Now you can choose which apps are able to access your location information, or disable this feature altogether. Was that really so hard?

    1. Re:There is a simple fix by kangsterizer · · Score: 5, Informative

      Except that's only for apps you download/run. It's nice but.. ... your phone is still sending regular "anonymized" data to Apple (and only Apple, which then sells it to 3rd parties) according to TFA.

  14. WTF? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

    Call me naive, but I trust Apple. I've been using Mobile Me since late 2004. I just migrated away from the Palm phone after three years; I now have an iPhone as my primary phone. My calendar, my contacts, etc. are in the Apple cloud. And guess what? They've never done ANYTHING to erode my trust in them. In the age of telecom companies trying to cap mobile data plans, and place arbitrary restrictions on IP-delivered media content, Apple is busy trying to roll out fiber and generally make the Internet better. I believe that not only do they live by their "think different" mantra, but that they realize the days of the free Internet may be numbered. They're doing their best to save the Internet as we know it. Granted, they have something to gain. But other companies' failure to evolve leaves the door wide open for a company which we should trust far more than AT&T, Time Warner, etc. to preserve the landscape that slashdotters are so eager to protect. The tag is correct, it's a witch hunt. Apple admitted their mistake, we move on.

    deja vu ! Spooky!

  15. Just opt out... by aardwolf64 · · Score: 5, Informative

    That's about iAd, coming out July 1. According to the agreement (which practically no one reads), you can opt out by visiting this website with your iOS device:

    http://oo.apple.com/

  16. Steve has Altered the Deal... by 16K+Ram+Pack · · Score: 5, Funny

    ... pray he does not alter it further.

  17. Free Market BS by Comboman · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I understand being upset but I was responding to opt-in and opt-out, and it's pretty simple - your dollars are your vote for you and how serious you are. The last thing I want to see is a bunch of people up in arms saying we need laws to prevent this. I call BS on that.

    And I call BS on your free market democracy ("your dollars are your vote"). You're right about one thing though; we don't need new laws to prevent this. We need the old laws that allow companies to lock down devices that their customers own (DMCA, etc) removed so that we have a real Free market.

    --
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  18. Re:so Apple sees me... by dotfile · · Score: 2, Insightful

    There's a big difference, I think you might agree, between "complete strangers see me with my pint" and "a man in a suit follows me everywhere, noting the exact time, date and location wherever I go. He's always there, there 24 hours a day, 365 days a year, following me. He also keeps records of every phone call i make, every song I listen to, every message I send and every web page I visit."

    One of these, you see, is normal human social behavior. The other is more than a little creepy, and something most of us would never put up with. But, if you give your permission I guess you're OK with it as long as you get a beer coupon.

  19. Privacy violations? by GodfatherofSoul · · Score: 2, Funny

    There's an app for that

    --
    I swear to God...I swear to God! That is NOT how you treat your human!
  20. And according to Ars Technica... by indros13 · · Score: 2, Informative

    You can opt out for each specific App: http://arstechnica.com/apple/reviews/2010/06/ars-reviews-ios-4-whats-new-and-notable.ars/7

    --
    Under capitalism man exploits man. Under communism it's the other way around.
  21. Re:Hmmm, another copy/paste troll. by Yakasha · · Score: 2, Informative

    If you have a wifi network broadcasting I can see it without going onto your property and looking inside anything.

    So, you didn't look inside the frame, see the recipient MAC and know that it wasn't addressed to you?
    You actively came to my house for the express purpose of listening to MY wireless network, that you KNEW was mine, that you brought special equipment for the sole purpose of listening to MY network, looked at my network, saw that none of the traffic besides the general broadcast messages were meant for you, saved them, and still try to claim ... what? It wasn't your fault? You accidentally setup a packet sniffer to record my network traffic?

    I don't have to lock my car for it to be illegal or immoral for you to take it.

    Do you understand how consumer wireless networks work?

    Yes, do you understand how morality works?

    Apple expressly said it intends to sell your data

    Really? Where? cite the word "sell" please.

    (share with third parties)

    Ah, see now that is what I read. Sounds to me like they're going to share their (non-personally identifiable btw, unlike Google), data with partners such as advertisers and, god forbid, applications on your phone.

    Oh, and one last thing.

    Care to cite them.

    Sure (emphasis mine, header bolding theirs):

    Your choices

    • Certain of our products and services allow you to opt-out of certain information gathering and sharing or to opt-out of certain products, services, or features.

    And that is directly from http://www.google.com/mobile/android/privacy.html

    Why use the modifier "certain", if you mean "all"?