Slashdot Mirror
China Restricts Minors From Using Virtual Currency
eldavojohn writes "For those under eighteen who play video games in China, life just got a little harder. Not only is gold farming illegal, but starting August 1, virtual currency platform makers are expected to put in safeties that prohibit underage players from using virtual currencies — because doing such a thing might promote 'unwholesome' behavior. The new regulations explicitly 'forbid content advocating pornography, cults, superstitions, gambling, and violence in all online games.' The business papers are picking it up as a number of stocks from companies like Tencent Holdings — which is heavily based in virtual currency in China — fell about 5%, though the company said that the ban on minors will not affect it."
All the minors need to do to see that is to look at that state's example of systematically denying them access to information about how they are being oppressed.
. . . where can I get some, and can I pay for it with virtual currency . . . ?
Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
from the international economic journal, "DUH."
So the underage will go work in factory sweatshops and the adults will become gold farmers. I'm sure that's the social outcome they were going for ... another success story of the Chinese gov't.
you mean like the communist party?
THL phish sticks
Yeah... you go ahead and do that China. Tighten those screws, add another barrier to people enjoying themselves. Mark my words, you're only sowing the seeds of a revolution your trying to avoid.
If they can't tax it then ban it!
Help! I'm being chased by a virtual Kenfukky Tied Chicken! I need gold to buy uber armor!
If they can't tax it then ban it!
After it challenged the Yuan, they did implement a tax. Although, who knows, if the tax collector comes knocking maybe he won't find anything wrong if the right amount of paper is left in his hand after you shake it?
My work here is dung.
You mean, like, Virtual Capitalism?
Ed R.Zahurak
You know, oblivion keeps looking better every day.
"Communist nation restricts freedom!" And that's news?
Way to go china!
I always expected the games to finally do something about the damm gold farmers. But no... they won't dare do anything that might annoy paying customers.
Now to just get rid of the korean farmers and mmo games will get even better!
Twilight's Hammer is a cult (and a major player in the next expantion)
the preceding post was not spell checked... suck it.
There is a foolproof method that video games use to prove that the end-user is at least 18 and according to this infallible system's statistics it seems there are VERY little minors. But I will say it's odd that there are so many players whose birthday is 1992-01-01 0.o
What's the difference between virtual currency in the WoW sense and the pieces of paper you get with the game monopoly?
I wonder how this is going to affect Gold Farming in WoW. It's a relatively known fact that the majority of Gold Farmers are in China. While this can't be proven, it's the theory I subscribe too. I also subscribe to the theory that the majority of that majority are minors, who are being paid, probably very little, to farm gold. I wonder if this ban is going to have a positive affect on the problem of gold farming? It's probably too hopeful to think so, I'm sure they'd just find ways around this law. But it's worth thinking about.
The point is completely missed.
This law is not being created to control "the people". It is not being made to be enforced.
This law, as with well over half of Chinese law, has only one purpose. To ensure that no one may exist in a fully legal state within the borders of China. Seriously. You can't. It is not actually possible to complete all the legal requirements to exist as a citizen, a foreigner or a company in China without committing crimes in other areas of the countries laws. The classic example being that if you try to migrate legally from rural to urban China as a Chinese citizen it will be noted that you either illegally entered a city to visit the offices of the PSB (police dept responsible for all "person location" aspects of control) to fill in the necessary forms, or that you obtained forms illegally removed from PSB offices.
(The equivalent for foreigners is the medical exam. You may not enter China without a full medical exam. Only medical exams performed in Chinese hospitals are legally accepted.
(Entry with medical reports from foreign (or S.A.R.) hospitals are routinely accepted, but right there they have all the grounds they need to deport you should you ever try to (for example) take someone rich enough to own a car to court for hitting you with said car.)
But why?
Well, that's got two parts to it.
The first is the same as many western states with laws prohibiting things such as "wasting police time", "loitering" and "resisting arrest". Purely so they have something to charge you with if they decide they don't like the look of your face.
The second, closely related, is so that those in power have something to hold over people who they feel are being less than sufficiently forthcoming with the bribes.
kartune85 : Incapable of reason, observation or learning. A kind of dim, drab, flightless parrot.
Capitalism wants the opposite of communism.
oh, wait...
The Cloud - because you don't care if your apps and data are up in the air.
It's not really different from banning minors from gambling in casinos.
In California, you cannot be arrested for resisting arrest -- there has to be some other crime for which you are being arrested before they can charge you with resisting. However, if you object to anything the police do, you are generally charged with "disturbing the peace" or "obstructing a police officer".
I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
This law, as with well over half of Chinese law, has only one purpose. To ensure that no one may exist in a fully legal state within the borders of China.
How is that any different from any other country?
Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
The new regulations explicitly 'forbid content advocating violence in all online games.'
So any game where you have to kill mobs is banned, wow!
The new regulations explicitly 'forbid content advocating pornography, cults, superstitions, gambling, and violence in all online games.'
So what's left to play with?
Don't some online games already try to restrict gold mining?
Or are we talking about people who work in real world mines. I don't know if china has a lot of gold mines, but they sure have a lot of coal mines.
And I'm going to take a wild guess that when an officer says "He disturbed the peace", and the bloke who happened to laugh too loudly when the police officer got shat on by a pigeon denies it, the "punk with a badge"'s word is held as truth by default?
kartune85 : Incapable of reason, observation or learning. A kind of dim, drab, flightless parrot.
I also think that it is a good thing to prevent minors to do online transactions, particularly of "virtual currency" stuff, without some kind of monitoring or parental consent etc. This sounds perfectly reasonable.
And to put the "unwholesome" comment into context which seems to annoy everyone, imagine a US politician saying vague words like "it is morally irresponsible to do X" or "it is to protect the rights our fathers gave us" etc. I mean, it's a speech.
So China makes what seem a sensible law ... can someone explain to me why it is that bad?
"The new regulations explicitly 'forbid content advocating pornography, cults, superstitions, gambling, and violence in all online games.' "
No guns, swords, knives, portals .....
No minesweeper.
No Solitaire (you can gamble on that in some casino's)
No bubble popping.
No reversi (Go is basic strategic battle simulation)
No chess
No Mahjongg
There are a few countries out there (small ones with governments designed to be ineffective) where it is possible to exist (for brief periods of time) in a legally guilt-free state.
Not many, and not often, true.
As opposed to here where a single glance at a persons face tells those in the know which set of pre-stamped arrest forms to use to tie you legally in knots while they decide whether to extract cash from you or disappear you.
kartune85 : Incapable of reason, observation or learning. A kind of dim, drab, flightless parrot.
If this happens, I will register as a minor that way I won't have to put up with all of that gold mining crap. Maybe virtual currency should be banned all together.
Cite, please.
I'm serious; I'm retiring soon and I'd put such countries on my list of residence options.
I liked the part of Tencent saying that this won't affect their business. The Chinese gold sellers don't farm for gold anymore, they are simply hacking into accounts, selling off the characters' possessions and taking the gold.
This from a country that forbids the depiction of skeletons?
There is no "-1 offended" or "-1 you don't agree with me" mod options for a reason.
don't gold farmers use bots with like 1 guy looking over 5 systems at a time?
unexpected end of format
My sausage tree didn't grow, does that make me a bad mommy?
I'm not sure about the medical, but when you visit China (Shanghai at least), you must register with the police or a hotel within 24 hours. Every hotel I've been to so far has scanned my passport into their system.
Life is not for the lazy.
Must be a Shanghai only thing. I have been to a handful of cities in China. I never had to show a passport anywhere.
(The equivalent for foreigners is the medical exam. You may not enter China without a full medical exam. Only medical exams performed in Chinese hospitals are legally accepted. (Entry with medical reports from foreign (or S.A.R.) hospitals are routinely accepted, but right there they have all the grounds they need to deport you should you ever try to (for example) take someone rich enough to own a car to court for hitting you with said car.)
What are you talking about? In the rather distance past, outside people should get the city permit in their local police office for visit; that rule was scrapped quite long ago as I remember. Outside people still need to get resident permit, but there is no restriction in entering the cities. (For the 'special economic zones," one can apply for the entry permit at the checkpoint.)
Foreigners need medical exam only if they stay in China for employment. Therefore you can enter China with medical exams, like thousands of tourists every day do, and only do the medical within China when you apply for the working permit. I got one before.
So there are not many intrinsic contradictions in the rules. However, partially because of there are many inconvenient rules and partially because the governments are not creditworthy and having little actual controls, people tend to ignore rules whenever they find any need to. That's why in China one doesn't have a lot of freedom legally speaking but not many seem to be bothered because they don't care about everyday laws since the 1980s.
Therefore you can enter China with medical exams, like ...
Oh... typo. I meant "Therefore you can enter China without medical exams, like ...".
Not like no country is the free world is evil enough to ban porn for children right? Right?
Get a grip guys. China may do some horrible/stupid things. But this is overblowing things. We have laws preventing commercial entities from selling certain products/services to people underage in north america (and most of the industrial world). We have laws making underage possession of said entities illegal for fuck's sake, and we've all gone out and made arguments based on children's lack of education/inability to take responsibility of themselves, and then went and ahead and accepted the unfortunate coarseness of age based laws.
So don't go out and bash the fuck out of China for this. Yes, they are controlling the Chinese children's freedom. Just like how I wasn't able to buy my own booze when I was 16. There are better things to criticize China for.
The Chinese should come to America, we've been running on virtual currency since the government went off the gold standard.
How else could the private corporate banksters bankrupt a nation? Look at the world and prove this wrong.
Announce NESARA, it's time to put these bastards away.http://www.nesara.us/pages/home.html
It's time for the government to print the currency, interest free, backed by precious metals. Then and only then will inflation become manageable, if not reversed.
Here's something worth watching.. http://truinternational2.blogspot.com/2009/06/part-1-part-2-legacy-of-freedom-that.html
The mind conceives, the body achieves, the spirit manifests.
I'll admit that conceptually you might be right. But I don't think you're correct about PSB registration or the medical exam.
Firstly, foreigners need to register with the local PSB when they change where they live. You get grace period of something like 24-48 hours. Hard to believe the locals are not afforded the same 'luxury'. Actually none of my friends who migrated from another city have mentioned the need for them to register with PSB and usually ask me a lot of questions about it whenever I tell them I need to do it.
That said, I know they have to register their employment details with someone *eventually* and you do realize that when you fly domestically in China you need to submit your ID card at the airport for some kind of 'police registration'.
The medical exam depends on which visa you are travelling on. A tourist need not submit for a medical exam unless they show flu symptoms at the airport. In my experience this is pretty standard in most Asian countries.
If you are applying for a residency permit, your Z visa should grant you 30 days grace to get all the paperwork finalized and attend the medical exam. Again, this isn't too far from normal practice for most other Asian countries in my experience (I've been working / living in Asia for about 6 years).
Better examples:
- the authority seemingly granted to street cops in most chinese cities to 'resolve' small / minor crimes on the spot. This is no doubt abused quite a lot, however, I have seen it work well personally a few times in my tenure here (fender benders and drunken foreigners breaking things). Situations that would normally, in western countries, end up in court costing everybody a lot of time and money for the sake of 'due process'. Still if I had the choice, I'd choose 'due process' over 'let the guy on the ground save us some paperwork'.
- the police can hold you without arrest in many situations for at least 14 days.
- so many laws we'd take seriously in a western country and abide by, are broken daily in plain sight in any street in China but simply not enforced by the police unless there is some kind of 'crack down'.
personally, I can see the pitfalls of the system, but I have to admit it works well considering the population and culture of China.
Isn't currency virtual in and of itself? I don't trade goats for eggs for a reason...
>>In the rather distance past, outside people should get the city permit in their local police office for visit; that rule was scrapped quite long ago as I remember.
I believe you'll find on closer inspection that "enforcement" of that rule has been scrapped for quite some time. Certainly just pre-Olympics that rule was enforced with a vengeance, emptying the hosting cities of every homeless person and "non-desirable" by means of loading them into trucks and dumping them a long way out into the countryside under that law.
>> Foreigners need medical exam only if they stay in China for employment. Therefore you can enter China with medical exams, like thousands of tourists every day do, and only do the medical within China when you apply for the working permit. I got one before.
The problem there is that entering China on a non-working visa, and then obtaining the working visa within the country (while extremely common) is also very specifically laid down as being illegal.
As are the "HK Runs" so commonly used by English teachers whose employing schools lack the face to get the illegal processing done on the mainland.
kartune85 : Incapable of reason, observation or learning. A kind of dim, drab, flightless parrot.
Thats not strictly true. As a foreigner you are allowed to visit as a tourist without any medical examination whatsoever, only a declaration (which is the same as pretty mcuh every country I have ever been to, ever.). It was in the news recently as well that the declaration requirements have been lowered to allow people with HIV in as tourists now.
You only need the exam if you want to work or take up permanent residence or some kind.
So, you can do what I did, and what is suggested by the immigration board, and enter as a tourist visa, undergo the examination, and then leave the country, appy for residence, and re-enter. It was a major pain in the lower back but all perfectly what they ask for.
Sure, I guess a virtual currency could be defined as game credit that is available for purchase, but exactly is promoting "superstition, gambling, pornography" anyways? Anything they want I guess.
This is my refute to anyone in favor of such a measure as protecting "children", because a closer examination shows that it has not clearly what these "dangers" really are, how they will be identified, and a lack empirical evidence that there a net benefit to the rule; all factors adjusted to various contingencies and the way technology changes over time. But hey, in China do they have social science outfits and studies of public policies and a legal framework that makes sense, at least to do anything beyond defend the state elite from the people. Its like the mob indeed.
...when an officer says "He disturbed the peace" ... the "punk with a badge"'s word is held as truth ...
No. This kind of glib attitude is exactly why there is a need to provide officers with such authority. If everyone respected a police officer's authority to uphold the law, there would be no point in providing an officer the ability to charge you with ignoring or assaulting them.
"when an officer says..." is not something you should just throw around so casually. Police officers are expected to be truthful, unlike little children and childish adults. The law dictates that their jobs depend on being honest and accurate as everything they "say" is official state business.
The existence of a minority of corrupt officers is never an excuse to paint them all with the same brush and treat them poorly when they do follow the law. Obstinate punks like you contribute to the reason that the word of officers in good standing is worth more than mine, so quit being a jackass just because it makes you popular in high school.
Your English is pretty good, but clearly not your first language, so I'll cut you some slack on your mis-used vocabulary and bizarre colloquialism choices.
Your attitude however, is sickening.
In court the only correct response to "the police officer says" is "What evidence does the police officer offer to corroborate their claims?".
Police officers lie, misrepresent the truth and recollect only what they think they saw (which is usually what they wanted to see) just like every other human being on the planet.
There are good reasons why "police state" is a bad thing. Taking the line that police officers must be believed and/or obeyed without question is supporting a position very far down the way to full police state thinking.
>> "Police officers are expected to be truthful"
No, actually they're not. No more so (and commonly a lot less so) than the average human being.
kartune85 : Incapable of reason, observation or learning. A kind of dim, drab, flightless parrot.
Like, oh, I don't know. Becoming greedy and rising in the communist hierarchy?
Or, worse, learn capitalist values hard work, and the belief that giving kickbacks to local officials is not "part of the legitimate business world", to pull a phrase from Back to School?
(-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
I'd love to watch a video of you in a random police department in the USA, honestly discussing this attitude you have with the folks who work there and see if it changes your mind. I have no idea where you get the extremist notion that the average officer has something against you. Enlighten us with something other than unjustified accusations- what's caused this mistrust?
Yeah, English isn't my primary language. I've been to places where police are actually corrupt and abusive and 'baksheesh' is the norm. The modern United States is not such a place, and Americans who complain about their police, exaggerating as if they live in "police state" are, frankly, idiots who need to grow up. America has plenty of problems, this doesn't come anywhere near the top of the list. I'm sure there are a couple small towns where there's only one lawman who's abusive, but an entire large department under supervision of a political body? I don't think so. The simple fact is that in no other place on Earth do those accused of crimes have more protection from abuse than is provided by the US constitution.
As for commenting on my English, I'd rather you help me learn from my alleged mistakes than just arrogantly infer your superiority in a prelude to- and distraction from your extremist argument. I didn't advocate a police state, nor suggested we should be naive enough to assume officers are never corrupt.
Certainly just pre-Olympics that rule was enforced with a vengeance, emptying the hosting cities of every homeless person and "non-desirable"
Correct but those people were living in the city and not just visit the city for short business and go home. Of course, strictly speaking it is hard to classify who were there for visit and who for residency. And you don't have to agree with such actions either. But nevertheless it is OK to enter the city for visits and then apply for residence permits (for which you have to find someone to hire you.)
The problem there is that entering China on a non-working visa, and then obtaining the working visa within the country
I actually did that too. I was the management of a start-up. I entered the country on tourist visa and later after everything was up and running, I applied for the official employment visa within China. You probably can't even apply for jobs in the US (or HK) on a tourist visa, but there seems no such restriction in China. You can apply for the job on non-employment visa and then convert to employment one as long as you find someone to hire you (and meet the legal wage and pay tax.) Those that run between HK and mainland probably don't know or want to apply for employment visa for whatever reason or convenience they find. That's a different thing. But it was entirely legal for me to convert tourist visa to employment one.
Ok, first, your assumption that I'm American (or even in America) is incorrect. Fujian province, China.
Second, I'm not saying all cops are dishonest thugs, though some most certainly are. Rather I'm saying that their word must be assumed to be of no more worth than anyone else's. Where a cops word is taken without other evidence over the word of the person they accuse then you have a corrupted and invalid legal system.
Thirdly, the claim of US superiority? Having lived long term in China, Oz, England, Ireland, and the US (by long term I mean 5 years or more as an adult in each) I have to tell you the US is strongly threatened for third position when it comes to reasonable police officers and courts that I would consider trustworthy.
Fourthly, your English is pretty impressive as a second language, particularly if your spoken is on relative equivalence with your written ability. Certainly beats my French and Chinese into the ground.
Finally, I do not believe, and nothing I've said can be realistically taken to imply, that the police of any nation have anything specific against me. Rather, I am merely reiterating that giving special credence to random authority figures declarations over those of "regular" folks is a severe cultural error. Police are most definitely not better than the average population from which they are drawn. In many cultures and systems they are significantly worse than the people around them in matters of common decency, honesty and justice.
kartune85 : Incapable of reason, observation or learning. A kind of dim, drab, flightless parrot.
>>it is OK to enter the city for visits and then apply for residence permits
This is factually incorrect (Talking of the rural/urban travel of Chinese citizens)
That it is not enforced (due to the need for a sub-lower-class workforce to remove garbage and the like in the cities) doesn't change the fact that if you were born in a designated rural area of China you are legally required to obtain a "visa" before entering designated urban areas, said permission being obtainable only by personal visit to PSB offices, which are found only in major cities.
>> But it was entirely legal for me to convert tourist visa to employment one.
Again you are factually incorrect.
It was convenient, but it was most certainly not legal, as you would have learned had anyone with significant face with the PSB stood to profit significantly by your being deported. (It would have had to be rather impressively profitable for them mind you, as it would have cost the official whose stamp was used on your documents and photocopies a lot of face as well).
The fact that it's easily done and convenient is irrelevant. The law, as written, as currently on the books, is that foreigners may not obtain work visa's while within China unless they already possess a valid FEC, which in turn cannot be obtained unless they already have a valid work visa issued by a Chinese consulate or embassy in their home nation. The FEC's are rarely actually issued at all anymore, having been mostly replaced by the Residence Permit sticker applied alongside the visa in your passport.
kartune85 : Incapable of reason, observation or learning. A kind of dim, drab, flightless parrot.
>> friends who migrated from another city
Key phrase there : "Another city".
This particular law is about preventing rural to urban population migration.
kartune85 : Incapable of reason, observation or learning. A kind of dim, drab, flightless parrot.
Not only Shanghai. Any foreigner in China must register their location within 24 hours of arrival. In all decent hotels this is done automatically on check-in (when they scan or photocopy your passport).
If you are staying in a private residence you get 48 to 72 hours grace to do the registration, and if you stay more than 30 days you have to register residency (a white card with your name, address, and a few other details like the owner of the apartments id number etc).
Technically when the white card is applied for the police are supposed to inspect the accommodation and make sure it is fit for foreigners, but if they insist on enforcing that rule these days it means you've pissed someone off and should watch your back.
kartune85 : Incapable of reason, observation or learning. A kind of dim, drab, flightless parrot.
Apologies for the assumption. The post you replied to by Locke2005 specifically stated California regarding charges of "disturbing the peace" and "obstructing a police officer". So my replies did continue to imply the case of modern USA.
My problem is with statements such as "random authority figures" and "Police are most definitely not better than the average population", which are terribly insulting and seem to me unjustifiable. This is certainly the case in the US when you consider they not only have far more training than the average pre-college worker. And regardless of training volunteer into a position where they have a significant risk of dying in the line of duty.
If you want to criticize Chinese authorities, premise your statements to specify what kind of officer you're accusing of being worse than useless.
--This law, as with well over half of Chinese law, has only one purpose. To ensure that no one may exist in a fully legal state within the borders of China. Seriously. You can't. It is not actually possible to complete all the legal requirements to exist as a citizen, a foreigner or a company in China without committing crimes in other areas of the countries laws.--
How is this different from the US? In the state of Virginia a worker under 18 can't be allowed to use a box cutter. Did you know that? I didn't either and I bet there is more too.