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Civ 5 Will Let You Import and Convert Civ 4 Maps

bbretterson writes "From an interview Bitmob conducted with Civilization 5 Lead Designer Jon Shafer: 'You can import Civ 4 maps into the world builder and convert them into Civ 5 maps, including all the units and cities and stuff on it — the conversion process will just do that for you automatically. We're hoping that the first week Civ 5 is out, people will use that function and port all of the Civ 4 stuff over to Civ 5, so everything will be out there already.'"

28 of 142 comments (clear)

  1. Square to hexagon conversion by Maian · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Civ 4 map plots are squares. Civ 5 are hexagons. I don't see an easy conversion process that won't produce real not-just-semantic map differences (e.g. how to convert diagonal waterways where in a 4x4, one diagonal is water and the other diagonal is land, and ships can travel through the water diagonal?)

    1. Re:Square to hexagon conversion by Shrike82 · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Yeah this was my first question too. Nothing in the article about it, but it hesitantly alludes to the fact that the only things confirmed to "carry over" will be cities and units. So this could very well be an approximation rather than a conversion. Cities roughly in the same place, land masses roughly the same size and shape, rivers running the same general course and touching the same cities etc.

      Units will be interesting though. If you import a map with huge unit stacks they'll have to be spread out to conform to the new one-unit-per-hex requirement. Suddenly a stack of doom will become a huge traffic jam across your civilisation!

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    2. Re:Square to hexagon conversion by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      From a computational chemist point of view, who uses both square and hexagonal lattice all the time, it isn't that difficult/strange actually. Thanks to the fact that periodic boundaries are used, it will just be a 'simple' conversion. The main issue one might encounter though is the fact that you'll go from 8 neighbours to 6 neighbours (if I am not mistaken the diagonals are also counted as neighbours in Civ4..., otherwise it's 4 to 6).
      Plus I believe they actually wanted to limit the diagonal travelling, so it makes sense to prevent the diagonal 4x4, instead of encouraging it.
      No, I am not worried about the conversion of the lattice/map. What I am worried about is the fact that in Civ5 it won't be possible to have more than 1! army per tile. So what will happen to the other dozen armies that were on the converted tile?

    3. Re:Square to hexagon conversion by ivucica · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Hexagons? What are they doing to Civ? :D

      I wouldn't be opposed to Civ5 having both hexagon and square modes. That would solve the conversion problem, too.

    4. Re:Square to hexagon conversion by sjwt · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Try looking at how the game Elemental, War of Magic development is going, that might be more your cup of tea.

      Its been developed with the Mod tools, and they are realeasing them with it, its currntly in a true Beta, you know the kind where one can post feedback, and sugest changes that are more then cosmetic or extreamly minor.

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    5. Re:Square to hexagon conversion by gravos · · Score: 5, Informative

      Civ 4 map plots are squares. Civ 5 are hexagons. I don't see an easy conversion process that won't produce real not-just-semantic map differences

      Someone at reddit posted a diagram of how to do this fairly easily: http://i.imgur.com/lpJRd.png

      The only problem is with moving resources out of city limits, etc... things which may or may not be practical problems.

    6. Re:Square to hexagon conversion by Thiez · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Wow, that diagram was actually really informative. In hindsight it's amazingly obvious :D

    7. Re:Square to hexagon conversion by dingen · · Score: 4, Funny

      Hexagons? What are they doing to Civ? :D

      Heh, a true fan I see, learning of new features through a comment on Slashdot, months after the developer released this info to the world.

      --
      Pretty good is actually pretty bad.
    8. Re:Square to hexagon conversion by Yvanhoe · · Score: 3, Interesting

      In Civ4 going from (0,0) to (1,1) was possible through a diagonal move. In your conversion, this becomes impossible. This can have real importance in the game. A diagonal waterway in Civ4 will appear as non practicable in Civ5.

      Going from a 8 neighborhood to a 6 neighborhood bears implications that are interesting but make conversion non ideal in most cases. If what you want is a nice map of Italy that looks about the same in Civ5, this is fine. But in the random map you loved so much in Civ4, some straits will disappear, some part of the sea will become lakes and just don't count on roads to be correctly converted.

      --
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    9. Re:Square to hexagon conversion by Ed+Avis · · Score: 5, Funny

      The map for Civ 6 is going to be based on Penrose tiles.

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      -- Ed Avis ed@membled.com
    10. Re:Square to hexagon conversion by Tridus · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Making it so that moving in every direction uses the same amount of movement to go the same distance. Unlike the diagonals on squire tiles in Civ 4.

      The real question is why hexes weren't in use all along.

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    11. Re:Square to hexagon conversion by Yvanhoe · · Score: 3, Insightful
      I wholeheartedly agree with you but :

      Sheeze, just because it's not perfect, doesn't mean it's worthless. If you really want to play the old maps, stick to Civ IV.

      Sheeze, if you don't want to see people notpicking on algorithmic and graph theory questions, don't read slashdot ;-)

      --
      The Wise adapts himself to the world. The Fool adapts the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the Fool.
    12. Re:Square to hexagon conversion by Minwee · · Score: 3, Informative

      Could you have program an effective hex-based map (taxes, military, etc.) for the computers in 1991?

      No, you're right. The very concept of using a hexagonal grid would have been far beyond the computing power of any such system. To even begin to display a hex map like this requires at least a 3.0 GHz, quad-core processor and a DX11 video card with a minimum of 512M DDR3.

      Or, of course, you could have just played Sword of Aragon, Battle Isle, Conflict: Middle East, or just about any other authentic computer wargame from that era. You could even have played Advanced Squad Leader back in 1985, which despite being a board game still has more lines of code in the rulebooks than most computer games.

      Hexes are nothing new, and they're not complicated.

    13. Re:Square to hexagon conversion by suomynonAyletamitlU · · Score: 2, Interesting

      If I were doing it, I'd "render" the terrain, then re-divide it into the new hexes , and infer the new tiles by the contents of the new grid, including cities, rivers, bonuses, etc. I don't know whether that would work cleanly, but it gets rid of that problem, at least; what used to be in 1,1 is still geographically close to 0,0, even if cell contents get moved, merged, or divided. Further, if a waterway runs between diagonal squares, it's likely that the corresponding hexes will also be contiguous.

      I have no idea whether they're going to do something like that, though, and it might take a heck of a lot of tweaking before that method became viable.

  2. Well my only wish... by g4b · · Score: 4, Interesting

    My only wish about civ is, that I can turn down graphics more, than in part 4.

    It should really get a more heatfriendly graphics mode.

  3. Square to hexagon conversion is easy by allcoolnameswheretak · · Score: 2, Informative

    A hex grid can be thought of as a square grid with every second line shifted by 0.5 * squareWidth on the X axis, so the conversion can be rather straightforward. But yes, it will produce semantic map differences as some squares that were previously diagonally adjacent to each other no longer will be after conversion.

  4. Company does something good? by IBBoard · · Score: 3, Funny

    How can this make a headline/slashvertisement on Slashdot? That sounds like they're doing the right thing and giving the gamers a better gaming experience by not just ditching all of the hard work from previous games. I'm sure there must be some flaw or lie somewhere - it's just not the corporate thing to do!

  5. Rumours by Mr+Europe · · Score: 5, Funny

    Reliable rumours say that civ5 will use a super close view where most of the screen is filled with face of the selected unit. This enables the player to fully see the facial expressions and and have richer gaming experience. Of course You can take a bigger view, but then you will see only clouds.

    And the "Large World" consists of 20 hexagons.

    To give all the equal opportunity to fight in wars, all unit are of same power. The Phalangs will successfully defend against Warships. This is good, because it would be sad if rich people would win all the wars.

    1. Re:Rumours by Chowderbags · · Score: 2, Informative

      The Phalangs will successfully defend against Warships.

      So what's different than previous versions?

  6. Anyone remember SimCopter? by PPalmgren · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Its not exactly the same, but I remember enjoying SimCopter a lot because I could take SimCity 2000 maps and load them up in SimCopter and fly around them in 3D. The nostalgia feeling of loading my best cities and being able to play in them was fantastic. I could see people not wanting to lose their custom maps in Civ4, and this is an excellent solution.

    I loved loading up a SC2000 map with the army base and stealing the army chopper. This was the closest thing you could get to 3D GTA at the time.

  7. Re:DRM by Lunix+Nutcase · · Score: 3, Informative

    The only "DRM" is that it's a Steam-only game, and you can always play steam games in offline mode.

  8. Alpha Centauri II by metamatic · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I've never been into the Civ games, but I'd buy Alpha Centauri II. I wish Firaxis would develop it.

    --
    GCHQ Quantum Insert installed. If only our tongues were made of glass, how much more careful we would be when we speak
  9. Re:DRM by Rockoon · · Score: 2, Informative

    What are you talking about?

    Your description of how steam works doesnt jive with how steam works.

    --
    "His name was James Damore."
  10. YO DAWG by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    YO DAWG, we heard you like things that stand the test of time, so we made a game that could stand the test of time, whilst you built a civilization to stand the test of time.

  11. The Alpha Corollary to Godwin's Law by twoallbeefpatties · · Score: 4, Insightful

    As a discussion about Civilization increases in length, the probability that someone will suggest a sequel to Alpha Centauri approaches 1.

    --
    Libertarians somehow believe that private businesses should be stronger than governments but weaker than individuals.
  12. Re:Wow by atrain728 · · Score: 2, Informative

    Guess you didn't play Civ 4 then. That's too bad.

    You're right though... there is no "intimidation" victory mode. Sounds like a hybrid between conquest and diplomacy, which is the way most games go.

  13. Re:Game Speed by dingen · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I like the illusion that the AI is actually doing something. I wouldn't surprise me if there is a built-in delay, just to let the player feel like a bit like stuff is happening between turns.

    --
    Pretty good is actually pretty bad.
  14. Re:Wow by atrain728 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    i did play civ 4. it seemed identical to civ 3 but with slightly better graphics. in fact the only reason i bought it was on the hope that the AI was better. i was disappointed.

    You really missed out on Civ 4 then. It wasn't at all "Civ 3 with slightly better graphics." I mean, first off, the graphics were alot more than "slightly" better. Second, it introduced a slew of game mechanics, games inside of the game, customizations. To say that it built upon Civ 3 would be an understatement.

    On the other hand, Civ 3 really was Civ 2 with slightly better graphics. The same cannot be said for Civ 4. Not at all. I played both Civ 2 and Civ 3 extensively, and I can't describe how much I had to reprogram my way of thinking about the game to be successful on any of the higher difficulty levels. Diplomacy is crucial as is prior planning. Civ2&3 just meant pumping out the best units you could achieve and sending them into battle. Very linear. If you played that game in Civ4, you didn't play very long.

    In fact, I can remember reading that exact sentiment in several strategy guides. "If you play this game like Civ2/Civ3, you will lose."

    I'm not sure what you would have wanted from the AI. Yeah, difficulty level often meant a reduction in bonuses for the player while giving other advantages to the AI, but that's pretty similar to just about every game ever. However, I thought the AI was pretty impressive. AI leaders frequently gathered up massive armies and "sprung" attacks on you, and even cooperated with one another. Taking out strategic resources was commonplace, as was using tactics to weaken your stack.

    Furthermore, combat wasn't the only place that AI was influencing the game. You'd frequently see other leaders brokering technologies and attempting cultural victory (all based on the leaders personality, of course.)

    The more I think about it, the more I'm convinced that with a comment like that, you really didn't play the game.