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Arlington National Cemetery's Many IT Flaws

imac.usr writes "A story in today's Washington Post calls to light the utter failure of the nation's most sacred final resting place to modernize its pen-and-paper record system. According to the story, the cemetery's administrators have spent $5 million without managing to accomplish the seemingly simple task of creating a database record of the site's graves. As Virginia senator Mark Warner points out, 'We are one fire, or one flood, or one spilled Starbucks coffee away from some of those records being lost or spoiled.'"

44 of 191 comments (clear)

  1. That's All? by Haffner · · Score: 5, Funny

    Only $5 million? At first I thought this story was about the failure to store data electronically, but now I realize that it's about government efficiency.

    --
    "Going to war without the French is like going deer hunting without your accordion." ~General Norman Schwarzkopf
    1. Re:That's All? by Z00L00K · · Score: 4, Insightful

      And there are already systems available that can manage cemeteries so why not purchase one?

      --
      If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
    2. Re:That's All? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You see a hobo on the street corner begging for money every day, claiming that he's down on his luck and can't seem to do anything to change it.
      You buy him a brand new house, and GIVE it to him, free and clear, to end his days as a transient.
      He then sells the house, and blows all the money on drugs, booze, smokes, and hookers.
      You then see him back on the same street corner, begging for money, claiming that he's down on his luck and can't seem to do anything to change it.

      The "surprise" ending is that the hobo is the U.S. government, and the money is our taxes. They need to raise them? Like hell they do.

      And yes, it was spent on drugs, booze, smokes, and hookers.

    3. Re:That's All? by westlake · · Score: 4, Informative

      And there are already systems available that can manage cemeteries so why not purchase one?

      Arlington has 300,000 gravesites on 624 acres.

      "In addition to in-ground burial, Arlington National Cemetery also has one of the larger columbariums for cremated remains in the country. Four courts are currently in use, each with 5,000 niches. When construction is complete, there will be nine courts with a total of 50,000 niches; capacity for 100,000 remains." Arlington National Cemetery

      Does your off-the-shelf package scale to to a cemetery of that size?

      Arlington has extraordinary historical significance. The data base needs to be more than a bare list of names and dates.

    4. Re:That's All? by Rich0 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      As another has pointed out - a few hundred k records is a trivial problem for a database. You could probably do this in MS Access (though I wouldn't recommend it).

      It isn't like Arlington has to deal with 10k bodies drifting in and out of the cemetery every hour or something like that. This is just a big table indexed for easy searching by name/location, and it gets a couple of inserts per day.

      If this takes more than a day or two to put together, somebody is doing something wrong.

    5. Re:That's All? by Gulthek · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Good gravy man, that's like table creation 101. A few hundred thousand records with mostly read operations, rare updates, occasional inserts? That problem has been solved, thousands of times already.

      Just grab some digital collections software (Omeka) or customize some Drupal or code up a quick model in Rails/Django and you're in business. Omeka would probably be the quickest startup and provide the capability for tons of rich metadata.

      No want/need for a public web interface? Don't set one up. Done. Lunch time!

      Except for the data entry, that's going to be some fun data entry.

  2. Accountability by Pete+Venkman · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Where's accountability when 5 million gets spent and nobody can even make something as simple as a SPREADSHEET?

    1. Re:Accountability by Red+Flayer · · Score: 3, Funny

      Rather than be a rotting corpse, I would rather come back sooner as pine needles in an alpine forest and affect the future through writings, or photography, or my descendents.

      So at the root of things, you'd be pining for your descendants in the woods instead of your descendants pining for you in a cemetary?

      Fair enough. But wouldn't you appreciate the thought of your descendants sprucing up your gravesite in memoriam?

      --
      "Trolls they were, but filled with the evil will of their master: a fell race..." -- J.R.R. Tolkien on Olog-hai
    2. Re:Accountability by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The jackasses were moving existing remains, and putting new remains into old graves, and putting landscaping on top of existing graves.

      When your problem is that the guy with the backhoe hasn't been trained to speak up if there's already an existing grave where he's been told to dig a new grave, the solution isn't "hire some geeks to program some computers".

      The solution is to create an environment where everyone who works there respects the dead, and to make sure that procedures enable that respect. It's not an IT problem at all.

  3. Tell me about it! by Late+Adopter · · Score: 5, Funny

    They can't even remember who's in the tomb of the unknown soldier!

    1. Re:Tell me about it! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      They can't even remember who's in the tomb of the unknown soldier!

      Corporal Tables, we call him.

    2. Re:Tell me about it! by DIplomatic · · Score: 2, Funny

      Corporal Tables, we call him.

      With the computers there as old as I think they are, the joke is probably Corporal Deltree

    3. Re:Tell me about it! by syousef · · Score: 4, Funny

      They can't even remember who's in the tomb of the unknown soldier!

      Corporal Tables, we call him.

      -- Okay time for your morning pushups:
      Drop Corporate Tables; -- drop!

      --
      These posts express my own personal views, not those of my employer
  4. $5 million is a good deal. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The government gets huge economies of scale. That's why we should have them in charge of the health care system. Clearly we will be able to save substantially more money than the private sector once the profit motive has been removed.

    1. Re:$5 million is a good deal. by Klinky · · Score: 4, Informative

      Yep, private industry has never wasted a cent. Their track record is spot on.

      http://it-project-failures.blogspot.com/

  5. Cut them some slack... by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 4, Funny

    Arlington National Cemetery is not an organization that can afford to take the risk of having their servers turned into zombies lightly...

    1. Re:Cut them some slack... by Nadaka · · Score: 5, Funny

      tell me about it. The only thing worse than a zombie is a zombie with stealth and combat training.

  6. Where do I sign up for that job? by bit9 · · Score: 2, Informative

    I'll do it for half that amount!

    1. Re:Where do I sign up for that job? by baKanale · · Score: 2, Funny

      Anonymous Coward? You'll never pass the background check!

    2. Re:Where do I sign up for that job? by ArsonSmith · · Score: 4, Funny

      This is for a government project.

      I'll do it for twice that amount!!

      Bet I get it before you do.

      --
      Paying taxes to buy civilization is like paying a hooker to buy love.
  7. How Sad... by Maximus633 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    For all of our soldiers who have earned the right to be buried there and we can't even get a decent IT system in place to help people or keep such important records.

    To our Fallen Hero's.... I am sorry.

    I do think it is time that companies and even people stop being so damn greedy and do their jobs. Granted we may not have the insight as to what is happening directly but I am left to wonder who is asleep at the controls on this one. We have private sector people doing jobs that are comparable size to this job and I am sure 5 million dollars would have paid for their time and a mojito and Starbucks coffee whenever they wanted it. I think it is time to disband our Government and reform with people that a hell of a lot more honest then some of the guys we have in there now. Sorry to make this political but the fact remains that someone is not doing their job. Any person's loved ones are important to them but a person who defended our rights and country (regardless if the war is right or wrong to which those that feel it is wrong it is time to bitch at the civilian leaders case and point would be the recent Gen. McCrystal deal.) and we can't honor them with keeping accurate records and spending money WISELY when it comes to their final resting place. Sad...

    1. Re:How Sad... by hax4bux · · Score: 2, Informative

      I have worked as a DoD contractor and I am a vet. I agree it is sad, but failure on these projects is the routine outcome.

      Navigating the federal procurement process is a nightmare you have to experience to believe.

      Those infamous $300 hammers are a bargain: at least they got delivered and performed the task.

    2. Re:How Sad... by couchslug · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The management at Arlington appears to have been too old. Computer literacy should be required of all Federal job holders and they should be shitcanned if they cannot adapt.

      Hold them to the standards expected of the military, which is to do your job or suffer appropriate punishment.

      --
      "This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
    3. Re:How Sad... by QuantumRiff · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You know.. Some of those records are over a hundred years old. I dare you to show me any kind of electronic record from more than 30 years ago. Go ahead, I'll wait while you try to find a reel to reel, and a system to use it.

      To modernize they need to re-enter everything, then ensure that backups are carefully followed, then they have to replace all the technology every few years, and pay support. Then they have to convert the data when new format/versions come out. That is a ton of Money and Time.

      A Vet teacher had a sign on a door that pretty much summed up the Marine Corps feelings on Technology.
      A computer with a bullet hole in it is a paperweight. A map with a bullet hole is still a map.

      --

      What are we going to do tonight Brain?
    4. Re:How Sad... by Chris+Mattern · · Score: 2, Informative

      I'm talking $5000 for a PCB with 25 year old components on it.

      That might almost be reasonable--that sort of thing gets expensive when they're not making them anymore.

    5. Re:How Sad... by Pinball+Wizard · · Score: 4, Insightful

      A computer with an offsite backup still preserves data when the building is bombed, burned down, flooded, or otherwise destroyed. A map in such a building will be gone forever. Sayonara, data. Your Vet teacher and apparently the entire Marine Corps have it wrong.

      --

      No, Thursday's out. How about never - is never good for you?

    6. Re:How Sad... by TooMuchToDo · · Score: 2, Funny

      Glad to hear the DOD is just as bad as the DOE. On the other hand, OMG so much waste =(

    7. Re:How Sad... by HBI · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The sign was referring to tactical systems. Try doing your offsite backup from Afghanistan. Using satellite comms, at best. Beside which, if your system is the only computer you have, you're out of action until you get another, regardless of what backup you have.

      The Marine Corps has it right, you have it wrong.

      --
      HBI's Law: Frequency of calling others Nazis is directly correlated with the likelihood of the accuser being Communist.
    8. Re:How Sad... by oatworm · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Yep - government at all levels is full of stuff like that. Want to know why?

      Transparency.

      I'm dead serious. When you're dealing with the private sector, the end result is (usually) far more important than the process. Using your above example, the goal is to get you on a plane that takes you to the destination the company wants you to go to - as long as you get there, the only people that care how it gets paid for are the accountants. In government, however, it's much more important that we avoid fraud and waste in the process of purchasing plane tickets than it is that we actually get you on a plane. Government has to make sure that the process is "clean" and "transparent", meaning that you didn't purchase the plane ticket from a vendor because they bribed you, lobbied you, gave you special favors, or otherwise did anything that might give themselves an "unfair advantage" over other airline ticket vendors in the procurement process. Once the government has established that everything is clean and above board through the use of over 200 years of accumulated "rooting out waste" tradition, then and only then can the government actually think about buying an airline ticket for you.

      Coincidentally, this is why government-provided goods and services drive a lot of libertarians absolutely nuts. It's not that government can't do the job - of course it can. It does it right now in a variety of areas (police, fire, schools, etc.). However, once you're done dealing with all of the other airline vendors' lobbying (we have to have a "level playing field", whether the vendors are at the same "level" or not), politicians looking to score cheap points by "eliminating waste and fraud", and just general bureaucratic inertia, something that should be fairly simple and straightforward (buy an airline ticket) becomes an inefficient multistage bureaucratic maze that lacks flexibility and costs ten times as much as it would if you or I grabbed our credit cards and bought a plane ticket ourselves.

    9. Re:How Sad... by nametaken · · Score: 3, Insightful

      C'mon people, this is pretty straightforward. These are two very different things, and both are best for their jobs.

      A map is more useful to someone trudging around in the sandbox with 80lbs of gear because it's lighter, the battery isn't going to die, it isn't going to break if you leave it in your pocket and it's invulnerable to software bugs or fried parts. Also, you can hand it to anyone else with basic map reading skills without the added encumbrance of old-timers that don't want your newfangled doohickey.

      A large data management task at an office somewhere is obviously is a job for databases and offsite backups. Paper records should still be kept in some vault somewhere to preserve them, but employees, guests, etc. should be working with a database almost exclusively.

    10. Re:How Sad... by dangitman · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The Marine Corps has it right, you have it wrong.

      Here's a thought: perhaps there are valid points and drawbacks for both methods? Shocking, I know!

      --
      ... and then they built the supercollider.
  8. How hard is it really to setup a MySQL database? by Fallen+Kell · · Score: 4, Informative

    I mean, really. You can setup a redundant/distributed from bare-metal to running in about 6 hours (including full disk scans). Add a cron job to do a dump every night and even just write that to DVD. Creating a database shouldn't be that big a deal. Even designing a web based front-end to search the records and input new ones wouldn't take more than a couple weeks to hash out and implement. Will it be the flashiest thing, no, but it will work and be better than pen-paper. Now, importing all those paper records, that will be the hard part....

    --
    We were all warned a long time ago that MS products sucked, remember the Magic 8 Ball said, "Outlook not so good"
  9. Even the government can do better than this by Chris+Mattern · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The article notes that the Veterans' Administration *has* computerized graves registration elsewhere, successfully, covering ten times the number of graves at one-third the cost of this utterly failed effort.

  10. Re:Should be a fairly simple project. by KarrdeSW · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It might not be within the strictest interpretation of their (NA's) charter, but I think its certainly within the spirit of their mission.

    THIS does not happen enough in the Federal Government. 95% of the time when an agency is in need of a skillset that is outside its purview (or sometimes within its purview, but present in a different department), it contracts it out to some third party vendor with questionable skills and typically high prices. Every federal agency should be ready to consult for other agencies when its primary skills are in need, but it almost never happens that way.

  11. Re:Accountability 5 million is nothing by syousef · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Where's accountability when 5 million gets spent and nobody can even make something as simple as a SPREADSHEET?

    Clearly you don't work in or understand IT. First there have to be meetings. Lots and lots of meetings. First at management level to initiate the project. Then detailed meetings to set up staffing and outline goals. Then middle management needs to be appointed (more meetings) so that they can flesh out those goals in more detail (more meetings). Of course this is after HR recruits the middle management. The middle management goes through the same process to recruit actual staff. Then management meets with staff that provide feedback on those tasks "No I'm sorry you can't magically walk around with a laptop and scanner and have it absorb names off the gravestones. No there's no technology to do that on the horizon". Then middle management needs to report back to senior management (did I mention meetings?) and senior management needs to meet separately to decide what it means to the project. At this point all those discussions will get confusing so will need to be summarised and corrected. Only now can we start to see a plan coming into being (drafted by middle management, approved by senior management. You guessed it more meetings). At this point work may commence but if it is it will typically be halted by a new priority/requirement being pulled out of senior management's rectum^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H ahem I mean coming to light. This will totally screw up every agreement made about the direction and even nature of the work, which will require more meetings at all levels to sort out.

    Oh and don't be fooled this happens in industry as well as government. Privitising just adds another layer to all this mess and provides another opportunity for waste each time someone changes their mind or adds an unreasonable or ill thought through requirement.

    $5 million is nothing. The fact that an intelligent 6th grader could do better is by the by. it's not how the world works.

    --
    These posts express my own personal views, not those of my employer
  12. Re:Does it really matter? by swb · · Score: 2, Interesting

    As cynical as it seems, there is something to that.

    I'd wager that a lot of the graves belong to people whose living relatives/descendants have no idea they have a grave there and thus the grave is really only symbolic as part of the visual sea of gravestones.

    And then there's the idea that, well, barring the dead walking again, none of those guys are walking again.

    The other thing I think of is -- as long as the paper records are maintained (eg, copies stored offsite, new copies made periodically, etc), if they have managed to run the facility for this long, how "necessary" is a computerized database beyond sounding necessary?

  13. Similar Story by mpapet · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Computers aren't necessarily the answer to every problem. I heard this story on NPR and part of the uproar is some people aren't buried where they should be. No computer will fix that. Quite disrespectful, but I'm hardly surprised.

    In my younger days I wore many hats at a start-up and one of those hats was logistics. We had parts inventory at a local freight company for free because they did lots of business with our assembler.

    I go in to do a cycle count one day and the guy pulls out a notebook and gives it to me before my count, telling me it's all in there. You know what? It was. He had dozens of notebooks. One for each assembler customer. This guys niche was basically to segregate the shipping paperwork from inventory accounting. It wasn't a one-man shop either. He made it work and work well. Most of the LDL shippers use grand-unified logistics applications with double and triple entry labor that would make his kind of service an expensive proposition.

    --
    http://www.maxineudall.com/2010/02/should-economists-be-sued-for-malpractice.html
  14. Irrelevant quotation by AthanasiusKircher · · Score: 4, Insightful

    'We are one fire, or one flood, or one spilled Starbucks coffee away from some of those records being lost or spoiled.'

    This is not an IT problem. This is a basic information storage problem dealing with backup procedure. If you're a major organization and you don't have copies of your records, whether paper copies, microfiche copies (which seems to be the case here), or electronic ones, you're vulnerable.

    Similarly, IT doesn't necessarily solve this problem. If you digitize all the records to a single server and don't make proper backups, you could still be one fire or flood (or even a coffee) away from losing the records.

    (Btw, I do realize that original paper records may have some value as historical artifacts themselves. But those should be in an archive somewhere protected from floods, fires, and errant cups of coffee, while people accessing these records on a daily basis should be using copies, whether digital or microfiche or whatever.)

  15. Sounds like typical government IT by Dr_Barnowl · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I bet the contractors all bid in good faith, expecting it to be a cake walk like all of us are assuming right now, until they discovered a seething morass of requirements. Things like

    1. They already had a technical specification for the system (dreamed up by the chief sexton or whatever a cemetery has) which was basically insane and unimplementable but expected it to be followed.
    2. They change the requirements constantly.
    3. The contractors discovered whole other sets of problems concealed in the back of the cupboard ("Oh yeah, we have to keep the form P12 in the cupboard...")
    4. And things too terrible to imagine beyond the ken of engineers.
  16. Overkill? by bussdriver · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Ever hear of technology overkill?
    Make 2 maps keep one somewhere else. Have somebody make a copy of the map - or even make a HAND copied map! Whoa! mind blowing concept! wait... what if you don't know how to draw or write because you typed everything from birth?

    What is the temp outside? oh, I'll just press F12 and see what it is at the local airport over the internet OR I could just look out the window to a cleverly placed thermometer...

    Rube-goldberg machine: web browser powered widget communicating over a TCP stack over the internet routing to dozens of machines to some database server which is updated by another computer running at the airport with all the same complexity plus has electronics to convert temperature to serial and then to USB... and each layer involves protocols and APIs... sure it works pretty well, but that is a lot of points of failure to read the temp which could differ a bit from my location. Who cares if they have slightly different weather than my house?? Well, if that doesn't matter that much then why am I using such a precise complex network of technology to get ball-park information when I could just stick my head out the door??

  17. Re:Accountability 5 million is nothing by forkazoo · · Score: 3, Funny

    This seems like a really interesting comment. I'm going to schedule a project kickoff meeting for next week where we can discuss some strategies for reading your comment as efficiently as possible. Reading your comment is a very high strategic priority for me, so I'll try to get a hardware provisioning meeting scheduled ASAP after the kickoff meeting so that I can let everybody know that I'm eventually going to request some hardware to use for reading your comment.

    I setting a rough goal of having your comment read before the end of the fiscal year, but there is a good chance that the project will be pushed back a bit somewhere into the next few FY's.

  18. Re:Pffff by John+Hasler · · Score: 2, Funny

    > ...all they need is a MySQL database!

    Wrong. PostgreSQL.

    --
    Warning: this article may contain humor, sarcasm, parody, and perhaps even irony. Read at your own risk.
  19. I worked for the National Cemetery Administration by HighOrbit · · Score: 3, Informative

    I used to work for the National Cemetery Administration (NCA) at Veterans Affairs (VA). NCA uses two automated systems: Burial Operations Support System (BOSS) and Automated Monunment Application System (AMAS). They even have an on-line grave locator at http://www.cem.va.gov/ . These systems work very well. The systems are fully linked into the the VA administration of burial benefits due to deceased veterans or deceased military. The system contains information on current burials and has also been loaded with historical data all they way back to the civil war. Arlington already uses AMAS to order headstones. I'm sure the VA would be happy to add Arlington as a site for BOSS (they already manage 128 cemeteries and Arlington would just add one more). It would take some work to load the data, but that would be a one-time effort.

    The interesting thing about the well-functioning VA systems is that they are NOT developed or administered by contractors. They were developed and are maintained by Government employees (civil servants). They are administered daily by civil servants. The programers are all GS employees and the DBAs are all GS employees. Contractors have never touched the systems and hopefully never will. The only thing that contractors did was provide some unskilled labor to do document scanning that was then imported into the system by the Government developers/admins.

    VA has had success when they do in-house development with Government employees and dismal failures when they try to contract-out development. Just Google "CoreFLS" to see how a contractor developed system can fail to the tune of $250 Million and then never be deployed. CoreFLS was a $250 Million boondogle worked on by a bunch of H-1Bs that was so bad the Assistant Secretary for IM was fired by the President. If the President of the United States has to be personally notified that you fscked up, its as bad as it gets.

  20. Re:Accountability 5 million is nothing by ajlisows · · Score: 2, Funny

    Not so fast. People like you always want to just get right into it. Please submit a proposal detailing why the comment is a very high strategic priority and what reading it will mean to the group as a whole.

    Next, we would have to determine if you are the one suited to reading the comment. I mean, we have people that are suited to this specific task. I know you are eager but you have a tendency to step on the feet of others.

    Since you are obviously not a team player, a meeting will have to be called to determine how to handle your handling of this situation. If it is decided that you will get off with a verbal warning it won't take longer than a week. If we have to issue a written warning, there will be a meeting to elect a committee to write up the warning and another meeting to review what has been written.

    All this seems like a lot of work. I'm going to call in the consultants.