Slashdot Mirror


Sen. Bond Disses Internet 'Kill Switch' Bill

GovTechGuy writes "Sen. Kit Bond (R-Mo.) has introduced his own cybersecurity legislation with Sen. Orrin Hatch, and he had some harsh words for a competing bill sponsored by the Senate Committee on Homeland Security. Bond said that bill, which has been criticized for allegedly giving the president a 'kill switch' over the Internet, weighs down the private sector with mandates and puts too much on the plate of the already overburdened Department of Homeland Security. Sen. Bond's bill would create a new position in the Pentagon, reporting directly to the president, in charge of coordinating all civilian cybersecurity. Any private-sector involvement would be voluntary and free from legal challenge, rather than mandated."

42 of 171 comments (clear)

  1. Stop that task in the name of the law! by LostCluster · · Score: 5, Insightful

    We don't need a military-like "big red button" in the boss's office that shuts down all Internet systems... that would open us up to even worse problems. (Did anybody watch the recent CNN special "We Were Warned: Cyber Shockwave" about this situation exactly? If you shut down all civilian communications, how are you going to tell workers where they're needed? A simple attack somewhere along the power grid, and nobody will know where the fault is to repair it.)

    But, there is something we should give over in this area. The ability to kill programs that are causing damage to other systems or the Internet structure. Basically, if food has a problem, we recall what had the problem, not all food. If MS-SQL has a problem, we have an Internet outage... what if Microsoft was able to say "You must patch to version 7.3.43... we've got a security problem with 7.3.42." Basically, if you're running a "wrong" version of an application, you shouldn't be allowed to expose that to the Internet... you're just going to spread the worm of the day once you get caught by the bad guys. Can we have some good guys shut you down first?

    The difference is clear... you don't shut down the whole Internet when things go bad, you shut down the bad application. SysAdmins will notice their service is down, and hopefully will get a nice clear message that they've put off the patches for too long, and if their server wasn't already spreading the worm, it was about to before the kill switch got in the way.

    This is much like the college solution where if their honeypot detects that you've sent out a worm packet, they tell the nearest network switch to cut you off. You notice your IM client can't connect and neither can your web browser, and call IT. The Internet isn't down... you're down for the safety of the computers around you. Bring your machine to IT, pay for the cleanup service and a free copy of the college's favorite anti-virus, and while you carry your machine back to the dorm they turn your port back on.

    This is just basic cyber-defense. You're totally secure if you unplug everything... but then you also lose the services which are the point of having the server. We need to use the good servers to keep some level of communication going... and spread the word that the bad servers need the patch that was released a few months ago! When things go wrong, you don't throw the whole thing out without trying to fix it first!

    1. Re:Stop that task in the name of the law! by imthesponge · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Under this system, of course Bittorrent would end up being classified as a "bad application".

    2. Re:Stop that task in the name of the law! by bky1701 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      How about the extremely common situation that an older version of software (often firmware) allows something the company did not intend, like jailbreaking? I don't want to allow companies to legally force people to update, that gives far too much power to greedy companies like Apple, who would love nothing more than that power. What is to stop them from releasing a "new" version of something which breaks the device as soon as they have a new model ready to sell?

      Nothing.

      Government is fine. Keep CORPORATIONS out of my bedroom. They have no reason to be there.

    3. Re:Stop that task in the name of the law! by FeepingCreature · · Score: 2, Insightful

      And of course that would stop them once the technology is in place.

      For all of ten seconds.

    4. Re:Stop that task in the name of the law! by LostCluster · · Score: 2, Interesting

      We just need a simple legal standard. If you're causing harm to the network by hacking other machines, you must upgrade. If you're simply using more bandwidth, you get charged for your overage. If you're doing something that manufacturer didn't intend like running Linux on your router, you're fine.

    5. Re:Stop that task in the name of the law! by bky1701 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Yeah, tell me how that goes. With the good-intention Chernobyl that is modern copyright legislation, you keep telling yourself that giving any more power to private interests is a good thing. I'll keep fighting for my rights against people who advocate that, thanks you.

    6. Re:Stop that task in the name of the law! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I'm not worried about CORPORATIONS--they only want my money. Government wants my money and my LIFE.

    7. Re:Stop that task in the name of the law! by bky1701 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      They'll both happily take your life, as is shown by slavery and the horrible working conditions that were common until very recently. It just happens that the government currently keeps the corporations from taking it. Funny how that is, isn't it?

    8. Re:Stop that task in the name of the law! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Who decides what is the 'correct' software?

      Is it a whitelist or blacklist?

      How is it enforced, what if I have it lie?

      What technical implementation does this need?

      Do we begin licensing programmers?

      Do we install TPM in everyone's computer, effectively ending innovation and free speech?

      Too many people are eager for a benevolent king.

    9. Re:Stop that task in the name of the law! by icebraining · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Once you understand that they're all controlled by the same people, you'll feel much better.

    10. Re:Stop that task in the name of the law! by the_humeister · · Score: 5, Funny

      Government is fine. Keep CORPORATIONS out of my bedroom. They have no reason to be there.

      I'm sure the users of KY disagree with you there...

    11. Re:Stop that task in the name of the law! by Jurily · · Score: 4, Insightful

      s/Bittorrent/every fucking application that The Authorities didn't approve/

      The only system I can imagine where this might work, is if the creator of the software was the only one with the power to blacklist a version of it, and nobody for Free Software. And of course they can only blacklist something if an upgrade is available for free.

      Now for the fun part: how do you decide whether you're talking to a good version, a bad one, or a really bad one saying it's good?

    12. Re:Stop that task in the name of the law! by SupremoMan · · Score: 5, Funny

      Not exactly sure. But I am pretty sure that the answer to every one of those questions has the word "money" in it.

    13. Re:Stop that task in the name of the law! by Man+On+Pink+Corner · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Sigh. No, it's just that not every argument against Big Government can be dispelled conveniently by invoking Sinclair Lewis.

  2. International concerns? by strayant · · Score: 3, Insightful

    So, what about the impact on all the other countries?

    1. Re:International concerns? by PigIronBob · · Score: 2, Funny

      "So, what about the impact on all the other countries?"

      we'll nuke them

      --
      You never catch me alive
  3. There already is one. by AnonymousClown · · Score: 4, Funny
    Here's the training video I got to see in my PHB internet class. As you can see, there a big red button the top of the internet.

    They tried to make the training video 'light' and humorous, but it still doesn't negate the fact that these plans have already been put into action.

    --
    RIP America

    July 4, 1776 - September 11, 2001

  4. How about this... by Darkness404 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    How about this? A 20 year moratorium on introducing any new rules/regulations on the internet.

    Its a rarity if government regulation actually helps, and even when it does "help" it either creates larger problems down the road or fixes something else the government did.

    Other than the initial creation of the internet, it has been largely a private affair and that is responsible for the majority of its growth.

    --
    Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
    1. Re:How about this... by hedwards · · Score: 4, Interesting

      lolwut, because deregulation has done such wonders for the financial and energy sectors. Likewise, the problem we've had with the net is a lack of regulation rather than too much of it. The solution to not enough regulation has never, ever been less regulation. The firms like MS and the ISPs that do very little to curtail the soft targets aren't going to get better knowing that they'll face even less regulation.

    2. Re:How about this... by bky1701 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      As much as I don't want a kill switch on the internet, I also don't want that same kill switch to exist in the hands of private companies. Without some government regulation, what is to stop the media cartels (which own the majority of ISPs) from banding together against sites they dislike? Google seems pretty unpopular among media companies these days. Who is going to make sure that we can still access Youtube 5 years from now? Net neutrality is not something to scoff at.

      I also wouldn't object to forcing ISPs with threat of law to actually PROVIDE what they market. If they say it's unlimited, it should be unlimited, NOT "unlimited to a point."

      But government is the source of all evil, right? Hand it over to Time Warner, Comcast, and Verizon... they'll take good care of your rights! /s

    3. Re:How about this... by Darkness404 · · Score: 4, Informative
      Bullshit. The financial sector isn't deregulated in the least, it is still insanely regulated. All we can say is that our previous version of regulations were working better than our most recent revision. The root of the problem is that we have a meaningless currency based on absolutely nothing, with that comes insane inflation. Why is it that people stay poor? A huge reason is that because we have a fiat currency, whenever you save in a bank, unless it has a great interest rate inflation + taxation mean that you will more likely lose more money than you gain! Mix that with tax laws and regulation designed to protect the rich and those with lobbyists rather than making them accept personal responsibility. And no we don't need "regulations" to do that because regulations can be and will be gamed to achieve gain.

      Our energy sector is insanely regulated also. The BP oil spill wasn't caused because of deregulation but because the morons "we" elected to congress thought it was a good idea to artificially cap liability.

      Likewise, the problem we've had with the net is a lack of regulation rather than too much of it.

      So what are these problems with the internet that are because of a lack of regulation that will magically become better with regulation? In almost every single case regulation simply leads to corporations screwing the public even more because they can game them and the public losing in higher prices and less choice because it makes it harder to start up a business or to compete with established companies.

      The firms like MS and the ISPs that do very little to curtail the soft targets aren't going to get better knowing that they'll face even less regulation.

      MS pretty much lives on the regulation we call software patents and copyright. ISPs got the way they did by screwing the public by taking money to provide internet access and then unilaterally changing the definition of the internet to their own interests.

      We don't need regulation there, we need sane patent reform, we need a return of sane copyright, we need a correct definition of internet, we need to end all public handouts to businesses, etc.

      When consumers have choice they will be more effective than "regulation" ever will be. The problem is regulation almost always reduces chocie.

      --
      Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
    4. Re:How about this... by Darkness404 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Look back in the past, how did Comcast/Verizon/Time Warner/etc get so large? They basically stole your tax dollars to provide internet access and "modernize" America (and in the case of Verizon they got lots of infrastructure from the breakup of AT&T). Without governments screwing with the free market we can make sure that the corporations serve us rather than the other way around. We need a government to prevent force and fraud, as you pointed out, the majority of ISPs/Cell Companies use fraud in their marketing and should be forced to either provide what they market or provide compensation.

      What we need is a definition of the internet to include all of the internet to start out. Secondly we need to stop handouts to private companies all of them to prevent this from happening in the future. Eventually, our current infrastructure will be obsolete and Comcast/Time Warner/Verizon will be as laughable of companies as Atari and AOL is today. But in the meantime, simply allow for more competition in the ISP market, allow for true free market systems where if one corporation can use public land to lay cable though any ISP who wants to should be able to within a certain window. When we solve the inequalities there, it fixes itself. If an ISP blocks YouTube and there is a choice, everyone will switch. The problem is our government has limited the choices.

      --
      Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
    5. Re:How about this... by vrmlguy · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Why, oh why, isn't there a "+/-1 Libertarian" modifier? (The +/- would be viewer selectable, of course.)

      --
      Nothing for 6-digit uids?
    6. Re:How about this... by Darkness404 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      It is not a "natural monopoly" any more than a cell provider is a "natural monopoly". There are lots of room for competition in the ISP market. Anytime we call something a "natural monopoly" we open it up to be an abusive monopoly. Ever try to settle a bill dispute with a water company or power company? Its not an easy experience because we've basically forbidden any competition possibilities, you either pay them their rates no matter if they are calculated correctly or not, take them to court or have no water/power. We don't need to extend that status to ISPs.

      --
      Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
    7. Re:How about this... by Toonol · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The financial sector IS still highly regulated, one of the most regulated sectors of the economy. It was never deregulated; only the nature of the regulations changed, and that wasn't to promote freedom or capitalism, but to benefit certain people.

      The deregulation of the net, of course, is the fundamental reason for it's rapid growth and incredible utility.

    8. Re:How about this... by hedwards · · Score: 3, Insightful

      O Really? So basically the financial markets are highly regulated, except when there not. The fact that the portion of the entire market that was regulated is dwarfed by the ginormous amount of money represented by completely unregulated instruments, is the sign of a highly regulated market.

      Sorry, I must not get it, because I'd think that it would be the other way around, that a highly regulated industry would be mostly dealing with regulated items, rather than mostly dealing with unregulated items.

    9. Re:How about this... by hedwards · · Score: 2, Informative

      The financial industry isn't regulated to substantive degree. Which is what led to the great recession. Between the fraud, theft and dealing with securities which exceed the GDP of every nation the effect was shockingly similar to if there were no regulations in place at all.

      Likewise, energy companies haven't gotten the message that they're being regulated. The recent BP debacle is hardly the only major accident in recent years due to a lack of care. There was the on down in Texas and one up here in WA, and those aren't the only ones. They also charge us more for gas in Seattle than they do in pretty much any other part of the state, even though the only reason is that they're not being told that they can't do it.

      As for MS, they've seen some regulation granted, but it's obviously not enough, they're still engaging in unsafe practices like that patch Tuesday bullshit and pretending like vulnerabilities don't exist.

      But, yes, clearly they're being regulated enough, right?

    10. Re:How about this... by Curunir_wolf · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The root of the problem is that we have a meaningless currency based on absolutely nothing, with that comes insane inflation. Every country on the planet has currency based on nothing other than the word of the government. So to say that's the cause of the problem is a silly and pointless exercise in mental masturbation.

      Not at all. In fact, it's the reason that every country in the world was dragged into a financial crisis caused entirely by the US and its central bank.

      Now we've all seen your e-peen and know it's lacking. Move on to actual issues, rather than some personal preference for the gold standard or whatever you'd like currency to be based off. Though we had plenty of inflation when we were on the gold standard, so don't let facts get in the way of your insane rants.

      Unfortunately, the "facts" you are spouting are not facts at all. Inflation in a gold standard exists because gold can be mined, so the supply can increase. But that's caused by actual labor, so it has a natural limit. Not so with fiat currency, the creators of which have no limits and suffer no consequences for inflicting inflation on those further downstream. Throughout history, the most ruinous and damaging inflation has always occurred in a fiat system, never in a natural value system.

      --
      "Somebody has to do something. It's just incredibly pathetic it has to be us."
      --- Jerry Garcia
    11. Re:How about this... by mcgrew · · Score: 2, Informative

      Its a rarity if government regulation actually helps

      Bullshit. I'm sure you're too young to remember, but before the EPA, the US's air and water were filthy, particularly near factories. Since the Clean Air Act you can actually drive past a Monsanto with the windows down and not burn your lungs, and eat fish from formerly poisoned lakes.

      Before OSHA my grandfather fell four stories down an elevator shaft because Purina was too cheap to install doors on the elevator. There are now regulations against this sort of negligent homicide. I'm sure Purina's stockholders don't like these regulations much, valuing money over human life.

      Before the FDA they could sell you any kind of snake oil, whether it helped or was even harmful. I think the FDA's regulations should be tightened and there should be more inspections; Subway just poisoned a bunch of people in Illinois a month or so ago, and there was the filthy peanut factory (whose owner is now in jail iirc) that poisoned so many people last year and caused dozens of other companies to recall product.

      When California deregulated the power companies, the result was blackouts and brownouts.

      And monopolies should ALWAYS be regulated, and tightly so. Comcast is my only "choice" for high speed internet, should they decide to block or slow certain sites there's nothing I can do about it; there is no free market for high speed internet access here, and to call for non-regulation of this monopoly is just plain stupid. Net neutrality regulations are sorely needed.

      While you're at it, why not remove those regulations against burglary and armed robbery as well? Afetr all, government regulations always make matters worse, right?

  5. Re:Hmmmm by mmcxii · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Why is it such a shame that it's a Republican?

  6. Princes of Darkness by JackSpratts · · Score: 5, Informative

    No good news here. Bond's concerns about a cyber security bill can only mean he feels it isn't harsh enough. If he's in league with copyright's Prince of Darkness Orrin Hatch, who not too long ago wanted to scan all PCs warrantlessly and without judicial oversight automatically destroy those found with "unauthorized content" (read: entertainment), it shouldn't take too much in the way of imagination to predict his response to information he defines as threats to security.

    - js.

    1. Re:Princes of Darkness by Inf0phreak · · Score: 5, Insightful

      If I could vote you up, I would. Any proposal even remotely technology-related co-sponsored by Orrin "Big Media's Puppet" Hatch cannot possibly be good. Sure the "Kill switch" proposal is terrible too, but whatever Orrin Hatch is thinking of is guaranteed to be worse.

      --
      ________
      Entranced by anime since late summer 2001 and loving it ^_^
  7. it swings both ways by p51d007 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Those that want a "kill" switch regardless of party better not get what you wish for. If a liberal is in charge of a kill switch, killing off conservative websites just remember that politics is like a circle, what goes around comes around. Personally, I wish a hands off approach to the internet under purely 1st amendment grounds. "Congress shall make no law..." what part of that do those pinheads not understand. With the good, comes the bad. 3/4 of the crap on tv, radio, internet, magazines I don't care for, but I'd rather it be left to the market to figure out, instead of some idiot politician to say if it should be banned.

    1. Re:it swings both ways by Mashiki · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Personally, I wish a hands off approach to the internet under purely 1st amendment grounds. "Congress shall make no law..." what part of that do those pinheads not understand

      Well the majority of liberals believe that the constitution is a living, breathing document, as such open to all sorts of wild interpretation. The majority of conservatives believe that the intent of the document is as it's stated. Now if you get into the politics, you'll find that most incumbents are just screwed up and can't think of it in either way; rather the only way they can maintain their job.

      I blame people who don't have a clue about politics, and aren't interested.

      --
      Om, nomnomnom...
    2. Re:it swings both ways by TheEyes · · Score: 4, Informative

      If "conservatives" believe the intent of the Constitution is as it's stated, then why did the five-member conservative majority in SCOTUS just give corporations free speech rights superior to those of actual human beings? Ever since Justice Alito changed the court to a five to four conservative majority, the Supreme Court has become increasingly activist, striking down key laws that limit the power of corporations, government executives, and well-heeled criminals (the less well-off criminals still get the shaft, though).

      One of the reasons we've got to be really careful about any sort of "internet kill switch" bill is, even if the legislature makes it voluntary, the newly activist conservatives in the Supreme Court are sure to take the "voluntary" part out, if they can.

  8. Trucks and tubes. by roman_mir · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The entire thing stinks to high heaven. These guys still think of the Internet as of tubes and trucks and who the hell knows what else, but it doesn't matter. The important thing is that this series of tubes and trucks is bothering them something awful.

    They can't control dissemination of information on it like they do on TV. Anybody can just start a blog or a forum and discuss policy and worse, they can share actual information, the kind that government prefers you not to pay attention to... here is something shiny for you.

    They need a kill switch, and when they say that, they likely mean a kill, as in Minigun type of kill switch.

    Take this new cybersecurity bill, add the Trusted Security in Cyberspace proposal, involve the DHS, factor in Gitmo and rendition, multiply by Secret Service getting an 'upgrade' (from the same Lieberman ideas by the way), you are going to have a very neat 'kill switch'.

    This 'cybersecurity' nonsense is supposed to be able to expire 120 days after execution, well, just make the emergency last longer, have the president sign an order or whatever it takes. Actually 120 days is enough to push through any kind of agenda if there are no opposing voices at all, and TV opposes nothing (except for clowns, but who listens to clowns, right?

    They just want to stop you from being able to get and discuss any information that may end up hurting their agenda, and they have plenty of agenda.

  9. You assume everyone has control of their server by Trerro · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Most sites are running off of crappy shared hosting services, and the guy actually running the site has no idea how the server was configured, and whether current (or any!) security patches have been applied. He can do things like call phpinfo() to make sure that's at least current and intelligently configured, but he has no idea if the server itself is set up well, and more importantly, no way to fix it if it isn't.

    This creates a huge problem if the server is pulled. Suddenly, all the shared hosting accounts go dark, and no one can even retrieve their site. Even assuming the site owner has a reasonably current backup, things like forum posts get lost, and the site operator is forced to send off a mass email explaining the problem (if he even knows what happened!) and then frantically try to rebuild the site elsewhere. Oh, and the hosting company usually owns the domain, so when it does come back up, he's still missing a huge chunk of his userbase.

    I don't think it's an exaggeration to estimate that 90% of websites are on shared hosting accounts. Granted, it's the 90% that don't get much traffic, but every site has to start somewhere, and many simply aren't intended to be for more than a handful of users.

  10. "The Internet is under attack! What do we do?" by KarlIsNotMyName · · Score: 4, Interesting

    "Kill it!"

    Um, what?

    How about instead funding some free-to-all open source antivirus, anti-spyware, etc. programs to hinder the spread of malware and botnets? And kill spammers while you're at it. Yes, those you can kill.

    --
    We are all God's parents.
  11. Jealous of his own game? by damn_registrars · · Score: 2, Insightful
    So our previous POTUS created the Dept of Homeland Security (DHS) which is often cited as one of the largest bureaucracies ever. Then we suggest further expanding DHS while under the term of a new POTUS, and someone of the same party as the previous complains that the proposal

    puts too much on the plate of the already overburdened Department of Homeland Security

    Uh-huh. Like we already knew; say hello to the new boss, same as the old boss.

    --
    Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.
  12. This is still a bad idea by Edmund+Blackadder · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Let us not be confused by suggestions that just because Sen. Kit Bond criticised the previous proposal, his proposal is any good.

    IMO there is absolutely no reason to put a cyber security czar in the pentagon.

    In America, as in any free country the military should do nothing but armed conflict with other nations, and civilian agencies should provide internal security.

    But hopefully the existence of multitude of bills will result in no bill being passed, which would probably be the best outcome.

  13. Is anyone really saying... by iamacat · · Score: 2, Insightful

    ... that government shouldn't have emergency powers over Internet, or power grid or industries or transportation? If so, I think we need a new government, not a total repudiation of the concept of a government. Yes, enforcement should be practical, keep up to date with technology, not go overboard and be safeguarded against broad witch hunts for real or imaginary non-emergency wrong doing. But if we are under a massive cyberattack by a foreign government or terrorist organization, we do want the government to be able to shut down all channels for malicious traffic to affect critical utility/information/medical/commercial infrastructure - or try to as much as technologically possible to implement without serious hardship to legitimate users.

  14. That's the end of freedom by OeLeWaPpErKe · · Score: 2, Insightful

    And of course that would stop them once the technology is in place.

    For all of ten seconds.

    It wouldn't just do that. Think about the enforcement mechanism that would be required to make this operate : all computers in the world would need to answer to a single, global command authority. This authority would immediately be used to "end piracy", for obvious reasons. Even unconnected operation would have to be subject to government approval (or else you could use that to sabotage the system when it gets reconnected).

    And given that unless this is implemented globally, it would be a financial disaster. If the US implements this but China doesn't, that gives anyone else 2 major advantages : all spam income would go to them, all spam costs would go to the US. Furthermore, get 1 spy close to the kill switch, and ... And God forbid we try to get other countries to cooperate with this. What will it take ? A global "the taiwanese king cannot be criticized" policy would seem to be required. And what about the "islam requires women cannot access the internet", a Saudi and Egyptian policy ? Doubtless the UN would consider that entirely reasonable and demand we become "culturally tolerant", you know just like you can no longer say that it was muslims who massacred americans in 2001, for the sole reason that "islam demands it", according to the terrorists themselves (and quite frankly when a barbarian is swinging an axe into your face shouting "you shouldn't have insulted ...", you can generally assume he's not lying. The only correct reaction, of course, is to swing a bigger axe into his face)

    And that's ignoring what happens when the first politician realizes he can hide that pesky little detail about him that he raped 3 girls a few years back (and 5 more since, but the FBI doesn't yet have that on record) ...