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SCOTUS Nominee Kagan On Free Speech Issues
DesScorp submitted one of a few stories I've seen about Supreme Court nominee Elena Kagan, whose confirmation hearings are supposed to start today (despite being a formality, given that she has the votes pretty much locked up). "SCOTUS nominee Elena Kagan hasn't left much of a paper trail during her legal career, which may make gauging her ideas and opinions somewhat difficult. But there are some positions she has made clear statements on, among them, pornography and 'hate speech.' In a 1993 University of Chicago seminar on the subject, Kagan argued that the government wasn't doing enough about the spread of porn or hate speech. She argued that new approaches were needed to fight their spread, as well as taking a fresh look at old approaches, such as obscenity laws. Kagan included herself among 'those of us who favor some form of pornography and hate speech regulation,' and told participants that 'a great deal can be done very usefully' to crack down on such evils."
Dear Kagan, I hate you.
They left out the comma, I think she means
""those of us who favor some form of pornography, and hate speech regulation"
There we go, now we're all on the same page.
supposed to start to day
I wonder when Slashdot will be burned down to the ground by English teachers.
Carbon based humanoid in training.
Milton Diamond, The Scientist magazine, March 2010. "Porn: Good for Us?"
This opinion piece takes a look at scientific research around pornography. Higher consumption levels os correlated with lower abuse. Many studies have shown the opposite, but they tend to study abusers like rapists, find they use pornography, and say that porn is bad. You should be able to see the flawed methodology easily.
When you look at the entire population, the percentage of male porn users stays around 100% in countries where it is allowed and available, and abuse is low. In countries where it is not allowed or available, usage is obviously lower and abuse rates are higher.
People need an outlet, and if you don't want to see it you don't have to. But make your decisions based on what's best for the country, not your own moral stance. Outlawing alcohol was not intended to start the Chicago mob into overdrive, but it did, unintended consequence.
By restricting porn, you are essentially saying that men should satisfy their urges using real women instead of pictures or videos. Is that what you want Kagan? Are you that anti-female that you are calling for their abuse of a massive scale? I know it sounds like I'm twisting your words around, but given the evidence in question the law of unintended consequences makes it clear that's what you would prefer.
If I called for country-wide home schooling of kids, I would be calling for the death of America. Not every parent is capable of, nor interested in, schooling their own children, and the kids would not learn much. I don't mean for education to stop for most families, but that's what would happen. Unintended consequences, learn them.
As an angry wanker
Doesn't that hurt? Or at the very least, chafe?
Living With a Nerd
She has the wrong mindset for a judge at any level. Her job is not to force her views and values down the public's throat, but to interpret the law as closely as the writers had in mind while trying to close the huge loopholes.
Any judge who speaks out in a professional manner about any activity's moral/ethical/philosophical components is not fit to rule. Those parts are reserved for the people to decide upon.
As a conservative, you would think I would be all for this, but no. How do you define what is or is not pornography or hate speech. One could argue the pornography may be easier to define based on the physical activities involved, but what about hate speech? Does Shawn Penn's comments qualify? David Duke? Rossie O'Donnell? This is right up there with defining racially motivated crime.
Conservative, mod down for violating
The biggest difference between Republicans and Democrats is that they disagree about which of your rights should be taken away first.
Free Martian Whores!
All the Supreme Court hearings I've heard Sotomayor take part that have been broadcasted on C-SPAN have shown that she does just what someone in her position should do: stick to the law.
Dred Scott was part of "the law" at one time. This line about respecting precedent is utter BS when the precedent was wrongly decided to begin with.
I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
When I got this on my RSS ticker in firefox, it said "SCOTUS Nominee Kagan on F...". For some reason, I genuinely thought the next word would be fire, and I excitedly clicked on it. I think my disappointment should be obvious at this point.
Support the EFF and Creative Commons. The war is coming, and they're supporting you...
If this comment was attacking Bush a few years ago, calling him a fascist, it might very well have been modded up (it also would've been true...). If we want a truly open forum here, we really shouldn't so quickly silence those who disagree with us.
/* MAGIC THEATRE
ENTRANCE NOT FOR EVERYBODY
MADMEN ONLY */
If you read the article, Kagen seems to think that the Government should have the power to outlaw the production of pornography altogether. Significantly more troubling is the fact that she thinks we need to prohibit "hate speech".
We should be looking for new approaches, devising new arguments,” Kagan declared, according to video of the event reviewed by POLITICO. She seemed to count herself among “those of us who favor some form of pornography and hate speech regulation” and told participants that “a great deal can be done very usefully” to crack down on such evils.
“Statutes may be crafted in ways that prohibit the worst of hate speech and pornography, language that goes to sexual violence. Such statutes may still be constitutional,” Kagan assured the meeting. She pressed for “new and harsher penalties against the kinds of violence against women that takes place in producing pornography, the use of pandering statutes and pimp statutes against pornographersperhaps the initiation—the enactment of new statutes prohibiting the hiring of women for commercial purposes to engage in sexual activities.”
So, we can outlaw the production of pornography (by making it illegal to pay actresses for performing in it) and whatever the Government deems to be "hate" speech. So much for the 1st amendment. So where's the outrage from the civil libertarians in the Democratic Party? Russ Feingold, I'm looking at you.....
I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
If you believe in Free Speech you will defend even those you disagree with.
However, not being able to shout fire in a full theatre is censorship that I have trouble arguing against.
Censorship of sexuality is what kept information about birth control from women in the 19th Century and Abortion in the early 20th.
Censorship of porn is censorship of women. Literally.
They also disagree to what group of corporate interests get to bend you over first, and which one has to settle for sloppy seconds.
People whining about "legislating from the bench" are invariably people without legal backgrounds (or deliberately hypocritical politicians, but then I repeat myself).
Cute generalization there. That group also happens to include people who are concerned about the courts abusing their powers. For example, the classic case is Roe v. Wade where abortion was made legal over the entire US. From Wikipedia:
In Section X, the Court explained that the trimester of pregnancy is relevant to the weight of the factors in this balancing test. Thus, during the first trimester, the state cannot restrict a woman's right to an abortion in any way; during the second trimester, the state may only regulate the abortion procedure "in ways that are reasonably related to maternal health"; during the third trimester, the state can choose to restrict or proscribe abortion as it sees fit when the fetus is viable ("except where it is necessary, in appropriate medical judgment, for the preservation of the life or health of the mother").
The Court could have merely struck down the Texas law without claiming a right to abortion based on a trimester system. In my view, they went beyond their legal power in doing so. It is legitimate for them to declare anti-abortion laws to be unconstitutional. It's not legitimate for them to work out the details of valid abortion laws. That's what Congress does. For an example, which I don't think crosses the line, is Miranda v. Arizona. Here, the court states a requirement (the arresting officer has to inform the suspect of their rights) to be done at the arrest of a person. They don't say exactly what the wording of this statement should be (it turns out that the court's own words were used with slight modifications) and there's apparently a number of changes made to this statement. That's an aggressive court, but it stayed out of the legislative side.
You don't get the idea of free speech, do you? It is the right of idiots to say stupid things. If it isn't that, then it isn't anything at all.
You'll do fine when the people who get to decide what is or is not a "meaningful purpose" are on your side but when the shoe is on the other foot it won't seem like such a good thing. Unfortunately at that point it will be too late.
Isn't ruling from the heart and not from the head exactly the sort of thing people rail against when it comes to Supreme Court nominees?
Following the text of the Constitution is not "reading from the heart". Regarding two rights that Ms. Kagen apparently takes issue with, the document plainly states that Congress shall make no law (1st amendment) and that the right shall not be infringed (2nd amendment).
I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
I am a major proponent of free speech and I am Jewish. If someone wants to write speeches against me or my group, fine, it is their right to do so so long as speech is all that it is. One of the most important and cherished freedoms in the United States is free speech, even if it's racist or what people deem vile and disgusting. The best way to counter racism and hatred is not through laws that regulate its associated speech and expression, but through education. Combatting racism begins with education! I hate racism as much as any educated person but I realize that regulating speech leads down a slippery slope where there is no return. I can cite Governor Lester Maddox as a result. Lester Maddox was probably a last symbol of the bastion of Jim Crowism in America. As he got older and became more educated, he realized he was wrong and publicly admitted being so.
Finally, pornography does not need regulation beyond child pornography. Child pornography does exploit children and minors and needs to be rigorously enforced, but beyond that, the government need not further regulate/criminalize the industry. I see absolutely no harm in adult pornography. We as Americans are puritanical and hypocritical about sex and pornography - look at the Europeans and Japanese as they take a much more liberal stance. Overall, they have a healthier and less conflicted society.
The problem is that we've gone too far in being accommodating of hate speech. And I say that as a legitimate civil libertarian.
No, you don't.
Once the U.S. starts implementing "hate speech" laws, the concept of free speech will be dead. It already is in places like the UK and Canada. Someone will get to decide what speech is "hate." Freedom of speech is designed to protect speech we don't like. People wanting to regulate speech they don't like are, in fact, running contrary to the constitution.
It's pretty well known that the US's version of "left" is about the same as most European countries' version of "right".