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Google To End Google.cn Redirect

shmG writes "Google Inc. has announced a 'new approach' in China after the government said the company could no longer automatically redirect users to the unfiltered Hong Kong site. This gives Baidu Inc., which already has a greater than 60% share in Internet search in China, a chance to expand. It has announced new plans to hire US engineers to enhance its technical skills and propel its growth globally." Update: 06/29 18:27 GMT by S : Changed the headline to more accurately reflect what Google is doing. They're ending the redirect and applying for a license renewal, so it's still in question whether they'll actually go dark in China. However, they say they're also looking for ways to continue allowing uncensored search, such as putting a high-profile link to their Hong Kong site on the google.cn landing page.

36 of 183 comments (clear)

  1. Official Notice and Explanation by eldavojohn · · Score: 4, Informative
    The article is a little confusing on how they're going to change their strategy. The Official Blog has that info:

    We have therefore been looking at possible alternatives, and instead of automatically redirecting all our users, we have started taking a small percentage of them to a landing page on Google.cn that links to Google.com.hk—where users can conduct web search or continue to use Google.cn services like music and text translate, which we can provide locally without filtering. This approach ensures we stay true to our commitment not to censor our results on Google.cn and gives users access to all of our services from one page.

    Over the next few days we’ll end the redirect entirely, taking all our Chinese users to our new landing page—and today we re-submitted our ICP license renewal application based on this approach.

    It's kind of funny, the "landing page" is a false image of a search box and when you click anywhere on the page, you go to Google Hong Kong. How this is okay as opposed to a redirect, I'll never know ... and once that page starts eventually taking users to unfiltered results of Tiananmen Square, I think the Chinese Government will take a few more steps to stop it.

    Of course it looks like ibtimes has a policy that only allows them to link to more ibtimes sites instead of -- you know -- the original source of all their quotes.

    --
    My work here is dung.
    1. Re:Official Notice and Explanation by eldavojohn · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Rather than lose China, I'd comply with the government's wishes and obey the law (i.e. filter). Nice guys who "do no evil" ultimately finish last.

      On the other hand, they have my vocal support. I'm glad I went with an Android based phone. I'm glad I've developed only on Android and not iPhone. I never used Bing. I never used Bing Cashback even though my friends told me it was giving them money back. And I'm glad I've used Google. Given two competing products of the same functionality in the future I'd go with Google's. At the same time I am aware they are flawed, have privacy issues and will play ball with the American government by folding faster than superman on laundry day.

      I'm not a blind stark raving idiot fanboy but upon hearing of Google's commitment to move to unfiltered search results, they have achieved something in my mind and brought themselves to a level of idealism that I identify with.

      Does it hurt their pocketbook? You bet. But to say it does nothing else is disingenuous. You may not consider my admiration monetarily worth anything but it is something.

      --
      My work here is dung.
    2. Re:Official Notice and Explanation by asukasoryu · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Sounds like Google may be putting their ethical commitments (not filtering) ahead of their desire for profit. I don't think it's such a bad thing to "finish last" if you're still a nice guy at the end of the day. Everyone's got their own priorities.

      --
      There are more things in heaven and earth than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
    3. Re:Official Notice and Explanation by clang_jangle · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Rather than lose China, I'd comply with the government's wishes and obey the law (i.e. filter). Nice guys who "do no evil" ultimately finish last.
      --
      My XP PC is slowly dying. Have an old Mac w/ 10.5 you want to get rid of? I'll pay shipping : ) harleykevin@netscape.com

      It's amusing you still believe "nice guys finish last" while you're fine with being evil but have to resort to begging for other people's used, cast-off hardware. The lesson seems to be lost on you, but in a nutshell it's a myth that evil triumphs while good fails. In fact, "good" and "evil" have absolutely nothing to do with success or failure. To believe otherwise is simple superstition.

      --
      Caveat Utilitor
    4. Re:Official Notice and Explanation by russotto · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Rather than lose China, I'd comply with the government's wishes and obey the law (i.e. filter). Nice guys who "do no evil" ultimately finish last.

      Nice guys who capitulate to evil still finish last, and feel bad about themselves besides. If you want to win by being evil, you have to embrace it, not merely capitulate to it.

    5. Re:Official Notice and Explanation by commodore64_love · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Yeah that's great, but if they continue following this path of disobeying Chinese law, then by 2020 Baidu will be the world's #1 company with 1.5 billion users while Google is just a has-been (like Atari or Amiga today). Baidu might even gain enough power to come to the US and dominate our market too.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    6. Re:Official Notice and Explanation by andy1307 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      China has 1.5 billion people. The population of the world is 6 billion, including 1.2 billion in India who still use google.

    7. Re:Official Notice and Explanation by Jaysyn · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Baidu might even gain enough power to come to the US and dominate our market too.

      Only way this could ever possibly happen is if every other search engine available in the US decided to start charging for access.

      There is a huge difference between buying cheap, shoddily made Chinese manufactured physical objects & trusting a free Chinese search engine.

      --
      There is a war going on for your mind.
    8. Re:Official Notice and Explanation by Ritz_Just_Ritz · · Score: 2, Interesting

      What's more valuable? 1.5 billion consumers with a very limited purchasing power or developed countries where eyeballs are actually worth paying for?

      I think Google should not submit to Chinese bullying at all. It's not a market worth chasing given the effort and bad karma required to be a participant.

    9. Re:Official Notice and Explanation by _Sprocket_ · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Baidu might even gain enough power to come to the US and dominate our market too.

      Yup. I can't wait to use products from a company who's in the back pocket of the Chinese government.

    10. Re:Official Notice and Explanation by Relyx · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You can still get married and have kids while being a nice guy. In fact it greatly helps!

      Love does not involve hitting a woman over the head with a club and dragging her back to your cave, you know. :)

    11. Re:Official Notice and Explanation by Relyx · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The problem is that being selfish and doing everything you believe necessary for your own advancement can backfire. One can easily end up been isolated and left in the cold. In my experience, those who have taken their time to help others, establish trust and rally people around their own interests do better in the long run. You have to give a little to get a little. Selfishness is a huge turnoff.

    12. Re:Official Notice and Explanation by ultranova · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Rather than lose China, I'd comply with the government's wishes and obey the law (i.e. filter). Nice guys who "do no evil" ultimately finish last.

      It's not a matter of being nice. It's a matter of having a spine and not selling your principles the second it becomes convenient to do so. And actually bragging that you would... well. I guess you just set the new record for being pathetic. Congratulations.

      I could also comment on how your eagerness to cooperate with the Chinese dictatorship combines with your frequent implications of libertarian leanings to create the picture of a truly pitiful individual, one completely devoid of any values besides personal gain and completely undeserving of any freedom yourself since you're willing to help remove it from others for money, but frankly, why bother? You're not going to care, and anyone else has sufficient knowledge to ignore you and your worthless opinions from now on.

      Crawl back to under the rock you came from, worm.

      --

      Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.

    13. Re:Official Notice and Explanation by CraftyJack · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Nice guys who "do no evil" ultimately finish last.

      No, actually, they don't. In short: cooperation is beneficial, and it's easier to find cooperative partners if you have a reputation of being "nice". If we're talking about a one-round zero-sum game, then nice guys finish last. Most practical "games" don't fall into that category.

    14. Re:Official Notice and Explanation by RobertM1968 · · Score: 2, Funny

      Love does not involve hitting a woman over the head with a club and dragging her back to your cave, you know. :)

      NOW you tell me!!!!

    15. Re:Official Notice and Explanation by CherniyVolk · · Score: 3, Informative

      Considering the average foxcon worker makes $200 a month, or $2400 a year, and the average US high school drop out makes $20,000 a year. So you need roughly 8 chinese users to equal one high school dropout in terms of buying power. So yes, china has the most number of internet users, however, they are quite literally worthless.

      Apparently, this guy has never visited another country other than America.

      That 2400 dollars a year won't work in America, because all of the exorbitant prices we have because we have people making 20,000 a year.

      I was in Thailand in May of 2010. I just got back from Taiwan, three days ago. A double quarter pounder meal in America, specifically California will run you about 10 USD easy (oh and taxes). Do you know how much that exact same meal, at Mc Donalds in Thailand cost? The exchange rate is about 32 to 1, so a Thai national would come to America and 320 baht price tag and think "my god"; you see, in Thailand, that meal (including imported American beef patties) costs maybe 20 baht... less than an American dollar. Oh, did I mention, that's expensive for eating at a restaurant in Thailand too? Food and services is very cheap there, as they are in Taiwan too. Taiwan has a similar exchange rate, Thai Baht is almost 1 to 1.

      Housing? Cost of living? Not so much in Taiwan, but food costs seem regulated to keep them down and affordable in Thailand. So those people only making 2000 baht a year, are still eating far better than upper middle class American families, yes upper middle class. Thai nationals literally can have lobster tail and top sirloin steak every meal every day. How many Americans do you know can afford to eat a 30 dollar Lobster meal every day for every meal?

      Clothes, Thailand and Taiwan both have extensive textile industries... something America used to have but no longer. Clothes are very cheap in these areas, knock-offs or the real thing. The only time things get expensive are in high-class malls (which do not exist in America at all, the Paragon Mall in Thailand has a Lamborghini, Maserati, BMW, Porsche, Lotus and Bentley car dealerships INSIDE the mall... complete with multiple show cars, on the fourth level... you never seen anything that up scale in America) for their own and global wealthy elite. The Taipei 101 mall in Taiwan is absolutely ridiculous that can rival any stupid little American show on high-rollers in Las Vegas; these malls have watch stores that make Cartier look like a cheap Timex watch on the shelf at Wal-Mart.

      So we aren't that high class. We aren't making that much money. Our numbers are very big... but it's akin to a Thai national to brag to you about how much money he drops at the club with his exchange rate being 31 to one... and calling you skimpy. Not fair is it. Nor is it fair for you to use raw numbers to think we have more purchasing power than the chinese who only make 2400 a year. Because, they have PS3s just like you. They have flat screen HDTVs just like you. They have cars, one or two per house hold just like you. Their girls sport Louis Vuitton items, just like the American girl who saves up three or four paychecks to get one herself. They go to clubs, parks and museums, rock concerts and other outings just like you.

      If you think the average Chinese population doesn't have purchasing power... you obviously have not been there and looked around. They have night markets galore. They have their own multi-billion dollar companies that you never heard of. They have more expansion and construction building cities up than you have ever witnessed in America at any point in it's history.

      Do they have poverty? Oh hell yes. So does America. But, then again. In America poverty equals high-crime and ignoble activities... in China, it's mostly just poverty (you don't stand the chance you do in getting mugged, raped or killed there as you do in American ghettos). Most Americans avoid poor areas of their cities... like the plague. So they get online and talk about how poo

    16. Re:Official Notice and Explanation by Urkki · · Score: 2, Interesting

      It's a tendency that gets bred out of the population, by and large.

      Which incidentally is the reason why trying to control human population is rather hopeless in the long term... Our only hope is to develop technology faster than human population grows, because if we don't, we'll hit the carrying capacity of the ecosystem. Even with interstellar travel, expansion probably is ultimately limited by lightspeed in 3 dimensions, which leads to polynomial growth of living volume, while population growth is exponential.

      IOW, we're screwed. Wether we deal with the problem intentionally, or let nature take it's course, it won't be pretty. All I can hope is, we don't hit the limit in my lifetime, perhaps not even in the lifetime of anyone I know directly.

    17. Re:Official Notice and Explanation by Darkman,+Walkin+Dude · · Score: 2, Insightful
      This is a load of bullshit. A lobster in Thailand costs the equivalent of $20 US, thats as much as most people make in three weeks in Thailand.

      Because, they have PS3s just like you. They have flat screen HDTVs just like you. They have cars, one or two per house hold just like you. Their girls sport Louis Vuitton items, just like the American girl who saves up three or four paychecks to get one herself. They go to clubs, parks and museums, rock concerts and other outings just like you.

      No, they really fucking don't. How did this get modded up? The Chinese market isn't just useless because of the vast poverty of the overwhelming majority of its citizens, you can't even sell to them, without partnering up with the party *cough* a local business, and one of the rules of entering the Chinese market is that you have to hand over whatever technological IP you might have. Still on the plus side, trade unions are starting to take hold there after the Foxconn mess, and they will be forced to compete fairly on the international market with the value of their currency. Alternately they can try to sell to Chinese people instead of rich Americans and find out rather rapidly about how keeping most of your workforce at subsistence levels means you're cutting your own nose off to spite your face.

  2. Yippee can't wait by TheKidWho · · Score: 3, Funny

    I can't wait!

    Baidu, bringing Chinese internet censorship to you! Today!

    1. Re:Yippee can't wait by TheKidWho · · Score: 2, Funny

      You meant to say:

      I for one welcome our superior Chinese benefactors!

  3. China is the model the west wants to emulate by jollyreaper · · Score: 2, Informative

    Fuckface Leiberman and his internet kill switch. Government control of citizen access to information. You can bet your bottom yuan that when China starts producing serious IP they'll crack down on p2p. Their weak enforcement of copyright is simply Chinese mercantilism. Why send money overseas to pay for stuff that can be copied for free? Preserve capital at home. Joe Biden would love to have a Great Firewall of America.

    Very disgusted with both sides of the issue. If we're not getting screwed by military-industrial complex republicans on one side it's entertainment-industrial complex democrats on the other. I find it encouraging that the one singular point far-left progressives and frothing tea-baggers can agree on is that the politicians and lobbyists trying to kill net neutrality are fucking over the American people. There is agreement on that point at least. Representation at the federal level is limited to the special interests with bucks for lobbying and campaign contributions. Left-wing or right-wing, it doesn't matter which one you are. You don't have money, you can go get fucked. Too big to fail, too little to concerned with.

    --
    Kwisatz Haderach
    Sell the spice to CHOAM
    This Mahdi took Shaddam's Throne
    1. Re:China is the model the west wants to emulate by commodore64_love · · Score: 2, Funny

      - You could vote for Libertarian-republicans (like Ron Paul) who would end all wars, bring all soldiers home, and end the military-government hegemony.

      - You could also join the "Free State" project to take-over New Hampshire, kickout the R's and D's, and turn into a Libertarian stronghold.

      - Or you could just keep doing nothing.

      Your choice. :-)

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    2. Re:China is the model the west wants to emulate by FriendlyLurker · · Score: 5, Informative

      "far-left progressives" do not exist in America, at least not by any definition of "left" that the rest of the world is used to. The Overton Window has shifted Americans so far to the right they no longer know what is left unless it is so extreme as to have a Hammer and Sickle stamped on it.

    3. Re:China is the model the west wants to emulate by Pojut · · Score: 2, Informative

      Sorry dude...I agree with many of Ron Paul's ideas, but just like any other politician, he promotes and cares only about his own agenda, other people's opinions be damned.

      He listens to other people, he respectfully responds, I'm not denying that...but in the end, if you don't agree with him, there is absolutely no way he would ever change his way. Someone that rigid shouldn't be in charge.

    4. Re:China is the model the west wants to emulate by eln · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Sorry, but as much as I disagree with much of what the current power base does, I'm not quite ready to join a bunch of raving nutters who think the solution is to abolish government entirely or return us to some imagined utopia that never existed where the economy was always stable and everyone was always prosperous (seriously, look up some of the many financial collapses that occurred while we were on the gold standard). Ron Paul has some good ideas but he also has some that range from the wildly impractical to the borderline insane.

      The Free State Project is basically an example of a few hardcore extremists being cheered on by a bunch of the same people you decry: they sit around and complain but when push comes to shove, they do nothing. That project has been around for many years, and so far the vast majority of people who claim to support it aren't moving and have no real concrete plans to move. Even if they somehow got enough people to move they'd quickly realize what has become apparent in some of the tea party organizations: beyond a general anger at the government, the people in the movement agree on very little. They have no unified plan as to how to fix any of our problems other than "kick everyone out and stop taxing me", which is not really a useful plan.

      The people on the extreme right today have the same problem as the extreme left of the 1960s: they're great at protesting and getting attention, but they have no real practical solutions to any of the problems we face. They're heavy on idealism and ideology but very light on pragmatism and reason. They don't represent a feasible alternative to what we have now, which is why they have so much trouble gaining traction beyond their far-right base, and why we're still stuck with the same old government we've always had.

    5. Re:China is the model the west wants to emulate by Myopic · · Score: 2, Insightful

      There are no serious Libertarian candidates. That's the nature of Libertarianism. No serious, thoughtful person takes that ideology seriously. It makes perfect sense as explained, it just doesn't happen to jive with the reality of human behavior, so it is forever assigned to the minds of people who choose to believe simple platitudes instead of paying attention to the vagaries and difficult-to-explain nuances of human nature.

      And Ron Paul is a great example of that.

    6. Re:China is the model the west wants to emulate by phantomfive · · Score: 3, Insightful
      No, they are here, too, they just don't get taken as seriously in the US because Americans tend to put priorities on different things, and don't trust government (this goes for people on the left and the right. No one wants the government to know your search results, for example). Really, look at this quote from that group I linked to:

      Socialism will meet the needs of the great majority of our people and lay the basis for solving our social, economic and environmental problems.

      Now tell me, do you personally as an American trust government to meet the great majority of your needs? I could be wrong, but I don't think many people would say yes.

      The whole dichotomy between left and right is so flawed that it is more a tool used to divide us than anything meaningful. For example, I favor government that works: I don't care if healthcare becomes state-run or remains independent as long as the more serious problems are fixed. I don't care if gays get married or do anything else they want, as long as it's not hurting other people. I do favor freedom to use guns, and all other basic freedoms. I do think we should help people who need help, whether with a welfare program or some weird faith-based initiative like Bush was pushing, I don't care, as long as it works.

      A lot of people don't fit into the left-right mold, and breaking into teams only serves to help those who want us to be fighting (ie. politicians who are always looking for a reason why you should vote against the other guy). Don't give in to their manipulation, instead favor government that works.

      --
      Qxe4
  4. Re:Absolutely IMPORTANT! by Pojut · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Might it be a tad dangerous for any one group to control something so vastly powerful and important as the media, something that all by itself can start wars, end wars, sway elections, and tell people what they should fear?

    Might it be a tad dangerous that the media can influence people that severely? Who do you blame...the media for its influence, or the people that allow themselves to be influenced by it?

  5. Slashdot running CPC propaganda? by swb · · Score: 3, Insightful

    That's what this reads like, pro-China PR. Bad round-eye company kicked out, good Chinese company on to world domination!

    The only thing missing is the agitprop poster of the worker leading the masses to victory.

  6. Re:Absolutely IMPORTANT! by dwandy · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Who do you blame...the media for its influence, or the people that allow themselves to be influenced by it?

    If the media were not influential it would be replaced by media that was.
    Those that sit atop the Kingdom got there because they best understood the current game and won it.

    Humans are social creatures, and ultimately a pack animal. I'm beginning to believe that the natural order for humans is in fact some sort of feudal system that has leaders ruling the pack. How the leaders are chosen varies over time but ultimately the Leaders rule the pack.

    I say this in the context that it may be inherent in humans to be influenced (by those in [power|control|influential-position]).
    Further, the more you are a free-thinker, anti/non-social or otherwise a non-conformist the less you are likely to accept this natural order and not only cry out against the injustice of the powerful but wonder why the rest of the people around you don't. And I suspect that most /.ers fall into some variation of this category.

    --
    If you think imaginary property and real property are the same, when does your house become public domain?
  7. Uh, going dark? by roothog · · Score: 2, Insightful

    How on earth is this considered "going dark"? Google will no longer automatically redirect to .hk, but they're doing that specifically so they stay up in China. What's happening is the opposite of going dark.

  8. If they really wanted to torque off China by Tisha_AH · · Score: 3, Insightful

    To really rub China the wrong way Google should move all "Chinese" operations to Taiwan with a statement that google.cn will still be available in the one bastion of free Chinese, Taiwan.

    --
    Tisha Hayes
    1. Re:If they really wanted to torque off China by phantomfive · · Score: 2, Informative

      That would annoy the Chinese people, too. Most of them don't have too high an opinion of Taiwan, being fed a daily stream of anti-Taiwan propaganda (and it probably didn't help that at one time Taiwan wanted to 'borrow' nuclear weapons from the US, in order to invade China).

      --
      Qxe4
    2. Re:If they really wanted to torque off China by readin · · Score: 2, Informative

      Calling Taiwan a bastion of free "Chinese" would make the government of China very happy. They want the world to believe that their plans to annext Taiwan are an attempto "reunify" rather than naked aggression. Oddly their strongest ally is the authoritarian ruling party of Taiwan that migrated from China. They are also helped my too many media sources that give a false impression when they say things like "Taiwan separated from China after the communists' victory in the Chinese civil war in 1949".

      That's like saying France split from Germany in 1945. While technically true, it leaves out the fact that Taiwan had been joined to China a mere 4 years earlier at the end of World War 2. When the Nationalist Chinese took over Taiwan, they clamped down on freedom of speech and spend the next 70 years forcing everyone to learn Chinese and telling them they were part of China.

      CNN has become even more ridiculous saying that "Taiwan began as the remnant of the government that ruled over mainland China until a Communist uprising proved victorious in 1949." Taiwan began long before the Chinese showed up, whether you're talking about the Chinese who took over in 1945 or the Chinese who started migrating in the 1600s (Taiwan has a similar history to South and Central America in that it starting colonized around the same time and unlike the U.S. the native populations were reduced and assimilated rather than nearly eliminated).

      --
      I often don't like the choices people make, but I like the fact that people make choices. That's why I'm a conservative.
    3. Re:If they really wanted to torque off China by readin · · Score: 2, Informative

      "Everybody is agreed that there is only One China. They even agree on its borders."

      Not true. The Chinese who took over Taiwan after World War II and the Chinese who remained in China all agree that Taiwan is part of China, but the Taiwanese people who were in Taiwan prior to 1945 are not so sure. After 70 years of Chinese propaganda and forced Sinicization, they are split between those who say Taiwan is part of China those who say Taiwan and China are separate countries.

      The typical news report in the western media will say Taiwan and China "split" amid "civil war" in 1949. But they were only together for 4 years from 1945 to 1949.

      --
      I often don't like the choices people make, but I like the fact that people make choices. That's why I'm a conservative.
  9. Re:So can i search for Tienanmen square on baidu? by insufflate10mg · · Score: 2, Interesting

    The reason I was reading comments was so I could find an appropriate one to reply to. As soon as I read this story, I pulled up both Google and Baidu, and translated Baidu. Searching for Tiananmen Square yields nothing about a massacre, and searching Tiananmen Square Massacre only yields FOUR results. FOUR. A couple of them are regarding civilians volunteering to patrol Tiananmen Square for a holiday or something. I am absolutely blown away and until today had no idea just how bad the censorship is. Incredible.