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UK Police Threaten Teenage Photojournalist

IonOtter writes "In what seems to be a common occurrence, and now a costly one, Metropolitan Police in the UK still don't seem to be getting the message that assaulting photographers is a bad idea. UK press photographer Jules Matteson details the event in his blog, titled The Romford Incident. The incident has already been picked up by The Register, The Independent, and the British Journal of Photography, which contains an official statement from the Metropolitan Police."

18 of 344 comments (clear)

  1. it's not a bad idea, and it's not costly by FuckingNickName · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The Independent may be less, well, un-Independent than most of the mainstream rags, but no-one pays much attention to it. And The Register is read by as many people who count as the scrawlings on the average 6th Form toilet wall.

    It's not to say that the laws aren't being abused. It's that pompous claims like

    The Independent forced senior officers to admit that the controversial legislation is being widely misused.

    are more "haha I stuck it to the Man!" exaggeration than evidence of the Met receiving a genuine reprimand from those who represent us.

    1. Re:it's not a bad idea, and it's not costly by FuckingNickName · · Score: 4, Insightful

      /., why must you engage in so much mutual masturbation? Liberals (in the classical "defender of liberty" sense, not in the US "not conservative" sense) are being downtrodden precisely because they think small.

      Yes, it's great that senior officers have issued a memo to junior officers - not even a slap on the wrist - but the problems are:

      1. the intentional vagary of the law, which must be tackled at Parliament level - not that this is very easy while the LDs have sold themselves out and Cameron is waving around the "in Britain's security interests" card;
      2. the general principles ("oh god bombs and pedos everywhere!") by which the Met operates, with significant politicising of the police by senior officers.

      Remember: in any reasonable state, it's not the policeman's job to write or interpret the law, and the police should never have the power of a law so vague as the Terrorism Acts. Are you not paying attention? The public aren't even allowed to know where certain Laws apply. This might protect a few people on the ground being harassed, but it's the worst way of sweeping the problem under the carpet.

    2. Re:it's not a bad idea, and it's not costly by Lumpy · · Score: 5, Insightful

      But the biggest point is that to make police behave in society you MUST embarrass the specific officer.

      All this generalized crap is bullcrap.

      the headline should be "Officer Freeman of 1234 West East street" was a complete dick to a journalist today. How often is OFFICER FREEMAN a complete disgrace to the city?"

      You need to out the officer, publically humiliate them. It's the only weapon we have against the police.

      When it's generalized and hidden it empowers the bad cops to continue to be bad and corrupt cops.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    3. Re:it's not a bad idea, and it's not costly by Captain+Hook · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I would like to understand what causes /some/ police officers to get uppity and apparently very insecure. I'd like them to feel confident and proud of their jobs. What do they fear? Is it not meeting some target? I can understand an officer in obvious physical danger lashing out too hard (what is unreasonable defence when you're having a knife waved in your face?), but why otherwise?

      I think a lot of these situations are caused by a mismatch between the respect police officers think they deserve and what they actually get.

      Listening to the clip, it sounded like the police officer thought making the annoying kid stop photographing would be as simple as telling him to stop, because police are the authority and everyone should just do what they say, but instead the annoying kid asked which law was being used to prevent a legal activity. At that point they should have simply said their is no law, but please just wait until the parade starts. He probably wouldn't have, but since there is no law to stop him, that's all they could do. Instead they make up a cock and bull story which he immediately sees through and it's down hill from there.

      From that point on the police keep upping the ante, hoping he's going to back down, which frankly was ridiculous given that they knew he was recording them making up these stupid reasons why he should stop. They got themselves painted into a corner by a 16 year old who played the situation very well, they couldn't just let him carry on because it would have dented their authority but at the same time there really was nothing they could do legally to stop him since nothing he was doing was illegal.

      The Disturbing The Peace thing they actually arrested him on at the end was the only reasonable law they quoted and the only disturbance was caused after the police got involved.

      --
      These comments are my personal opinions and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of the other voices in my head.
    4. Re:it's not a bad idea, and it's not costly by AGMW · · Score: 5, Insightful

      In this case, though, you had a photographer that sounded like a total prat, ranting on about his rights and refusing to answer reasonable questions by a police officer (listen to the audio).

      Isn't it odd how different people can hear different things. For example, I heard the kid asking why he was being detained (consistently throughout the audio) and the Police trying to find some valid reason ... and failing!

      The problem here was the intervention from the first police person (a cadet IIRC). Had the next (real!) copper who rocked up listened to the cadet's reason for intervention and then put him/her? straight and apologised to the kid photographer all would have been well, but he decided to back up the cadet instead! And why? Because Police always (ALWAYS ALWAYS!) stick together!

      --
      Eclectic beats from Leeds, UK
      handmadehands.co.uk
    5. Re:it's not a bad idea, and it's not costly by NiteShaed · · Score: 4, Insightful

      In the US, its the law. Its called, failure to comply with a lawful order. It basically empowers police to arrest anyone for anything. If they tell you to do something and you don't, even if its within your legal right to not follow it, you can be legally arrested.

      Wrong wrong wrong wrong and wrong.
      A lawful order is directive given by a police officer in the execution of his duties AS DEFINED BY LAW. For instance, if an officer tells you to drop your pants and cluck like a chicken because he's bored, that is NOT a lawful order, and therefore you can not be prosecuted for failure to comply with it. If an officer tells you to get on the ground after he chases you through three backyards while he's investigating a robbery and you don't, or if he tells you to turn down the giant stereo on your back porch because you're violating the local noise ordinence and you don't, you have failed to comply with a lawful order. Big difference.
      In this case, had the photographer been in the U.S., he would not have been guilty of failure to follow a lawful order, as the officer had no basis or authority to tell him to stop photographing.

      And guess what, this law is abused on a daily basis in the US.

      True, but you just said it yourself, it's ABUSED. When an officer cites failure to follow a lawful order, when he had no authority to issue the order, the officer is in the wrong. The solution is to lower our tolerance to abuse of the system, and increase punishment for those abuses.

      --
      Some bring out the best in others, some the worst. Some bring out far more.
    6. Re:it's not a bad idea, and it's not costly by commodore64_love · · Score: 4, Insightful

      They didn't get a search warrant. They didn't do jack shit. They just made me stand behind my car for two hours, while they stopped and questioned other drivers...... then I guess they decided I'd been "punished" enough (I was turning red) and let me back in my car. I then continued by vacation.

      My trunk was empty other than the mini-spare tire.

      The point is that I will not submit to unconstitutional, warrantless searches. I will not voluntarily give up my rights as a liberated person. You ever heard that story about the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising in the 1940s? I probably would have been part of it. Better to die free, than die licking some soldier's boots begging for mercy. Better to be an Individual than to be a lowly serf.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
  2. It's "THE Metropolitan Police" by Kupfernigk · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The Metropolitan Police are the London police force. A quick survey of complaints against the police will show why this is unsurprising. Most British police forces are pretty good. I've lived in Herts, Cambs,Hants,Somerset, and never had the least concern about the local police force, as regards its competence or its honesty. But the Met has a reputation for corruption and violence, along with the West Midlands Police. Whether this represents the reality of policing in those areas - I wouldn't want to live in either of them - or whether large urban police forces just tend to go this way (think LA) I don't know. The Met also suffers from having a national role (which I believe to be quite wrong) and to be subject to lots of political pressure. But the motto of the Met really needs to be "quis custodiet ipsos custodes".

    --
    From scarped cliff or quarried stone she cries "A thousand types are gone, I care for nothing, no not one."
  3. Qualifications by stimpleton · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The only qualification required generally to join the police is a clean criminal record, and some very basic skills, mostly physical. After that the course length is stunningly short(weeks) for a job which has a responsibility as strong as high responsibility jobs. High school qualifications are minimal, and tertiary is a waste of time, untill you have done the hard yards and learnt the chain of evidence mantra.

    Lets simplify it. When push comes to shove and they are chasing a theft suspect, the ability to run, react, tackle, and subdue are at the top of the list. The police officer could not be like Richard Stallman for example. The mere presence of some intellectual brilliance, probably removes any ability to "do the grunt work".

    --

    In post Patriot Act America, the library books scan you.
  4. Re:Transparency by dimethylxanthine · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Nothing gets the government scared like a big steam of bad press

    As much as I want to agree there is a thin line between the right to freedom becoming a privilege [of those who know their laws and can effectively challenge law enforcement] or disappearing completely to intimidating tactics we've all witnessed in recent weeks (G20, Toronto)

    Now, unless one wants their country joining the likes of Russia, where journalist homicide has become normal practice, with six having been killed this year alone (9 the previous year), giving them as much bad press as possible should be the least we can do stand up for our rights (especially if you don't know them!).

    As my grandfather tends to say (quoting somebody famous probably) - "there is just one step from comedy to tragedy". Adapt it as you will to the context, but the UK seems to have taken two steps too many in that direction in recent history. And that's just what made it to the press!

  5. Just a hunch by jimicus · · Score: 4, Insightful

    but I think he failed the initial attitude test and they were trying to goad him into failing it even harder.

    Not because of something he said, but the tone in which he said it and the fact he never let the officers get a word in edgeways.

    (There is the other, orthogonal issue that nobody ever likes to admit that they're wrong - particularly not when they're in a position of authority - and as soon as something like that happens it's vanishingly unlikely to end nicely for the photographer because the only way it could end nicely is if the police officer could be persuaded to double-check that they were in the right, get told that they weren't, apologise and let the photographer go about their business, which gets less and less likely the longer it goes on because the longer it goes on, the bigger the cock-up the occifer has to admit to.)

  6. Re:Transparency by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Nothing gets the government scared like a big steam of bad press (which the internet is more than willing to provide).

    There was this one hour TV show that I used to watch in the 1970s, it was an era when nobody could get any more than about 12 channels, and only 3 channels had anything anybody seriously wanted to watch, so this show had quite a following. It exposed governments, politicians and corporations that did evil and malicious things. The show was called 60 Minutes, and I figured that with all these big time, bad characters being exposed every week, then in a few years their should be absolutely no corruption whatsoever in government or industry, because these investigative reporters were exposing everything. Now it's a few decades later and this show is STILL exposing corruption in government and industry.

    I find it ironic that the article claims the police made "a costly" mistake, because this huge multimillion dollar organization was fined 3,500 pounds. And no police officers were fired, jailed, or otherwise punished. In the mean time a chilling effect has been felt by photographers everywhere because they know they can get harassed by police officers anytime and anywhere; and have to spend time and money and energy filing a complaint and going to court with a good possibility that they will lose the case unless somebody happens to have HIDDEN camera evidence.

    officers were advised that Section 44 powers [anti-terror laws] should not be used unnecessarily against photographers.

    Ref: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/police-uturn-on-photographers-and-antiterror-laws-1834626.html The bolding was mine. It's all very pathetic that this case is somehow framed to make it look like a victory for freedom.

  7. Re:Journalist seems like a raging asshole. by osu-neko · · Score: 5, Insightful

    He sounds hysterical in the video and has an attitude problem from the very beginning.

    No, he doesn't. Unless by attitude problem you mean he informs the cops that what he's doing is legal when they claim it isn't.

    The police demonstrate, in the face of an aggressive asshole, a supreme amount of calm and reason.

    lol -- the police demonstrate a supreme lack of reason, actually.

    --
    "Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth than lies."
  8. Re:Transparency by MrNaz · · Score: 5, Insightful

    FYI the Orwellian government in the UK was overthrown in elections in May.

    BS. There will be no change in Orwellianism in either the UK or the US unless and until the entire system is reformed. Witness the total farce that is the "change" Obama brought in.

    Shut down Gitmo? Bring the troops home? Curtailing the free pass that the corporate sector gets on the taxpayer's dollar?

    Nothing changed. Nothing meaningful to US foreign and long term policy anyway. The UK will be the same. This is because the policy makers and power brokers are not the figureheads that you vote for.

    Here in Australia, our prime minister Kevin Rudd just got ousted by, and I quote from most of the major news outlets, "power brokers behind the scenes", among whom is her de-facto partner. I don't know about anyone else, but that to me indicates just how much is controlled by the electorate, and how much is controlled by powerful lobbyists who the public do not vote for and never even see.

    --
    I hate printers.
  9. Re:Journalist seems like a raging asshole. by shilly · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "it is however a conscious provocation" So what? Should the fact that it is a conscious provocation alter the police officer's behaviour in any way? also, note that speeding is a criminal offence. taking pictures of a public parade is not.

    "an internal NUJ event on public property". wtf? what kind of "internal" event would take place on "public property"?? and what has that analogy got to do with filming a *public event* on public property and then subsequently filming *public servants* going about their *public duties*??

    these copper twunts were irritated because this guy wouldn't do what they asked him to. but he wouldn't do what they asked him to, because he was *doing nothing wrong*.

    "he sounds hysterical in the video" Of course he does! He's a 16-year old kid and these big burly twats keep on grabbing him and his camera for no reason other than that they've decided they don't want him to do what he's perfectly entitled to do.

    hint: just because they wear a uniform doesn't make them automatically right.

  10. "antagonising the police" isn't a crime by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    "antagonising the police" isn't a crime. And, since they are not a member of the public because they are a Police Officer, that "Causing alarm and distress to a member of the public" doesn't apply to him (though it DOES apply to the total prat, therefore the officer broke the law you're asserting the pratt did.

    I propose to you that the police officer was the pratt and not only that abused power and position to break the law.

    1. Re:"antagonising the police" isn't a crime by Entropius · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Part of genuine civil liberty is the ability to be as big of a dick to the cops as you want and not get arrested.

  11. Re:Lions and Donkeys by the_womble · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Not being up to date with legislation is no excuse for making up imaginary laws.

    If they do not know something to be illegal, they should do nothing.