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Oil Means More Arsenic In Seawater
oxi writes "Besides the oil already spilling into the Gulf of Mexico at the rate of up to 60,000 barrels daily, a group of British scientists says one can expect to see elevated levels of arsenic as well. The research, published in the journal Water Research, showed that oil prevents naturally-occurring arsenic from being filtered out of the water by the sediment on the ocean floor."
never hurt anyone. Except for anyone who's gotten sick or been killed by it.
Can someone tell me, if the oil spill still capped, or is it leaking, or something else?
Thanks BP!
life goes on... who cares? it's a giant fuck up, but ultimately nature will take care of it.
Well in other news every time I pee in the ocean the ph level drops too.
This is about as valuable insight as a story above without any meaningful interpretation of what the rising level of arsenic means. How much more arsenic will there be? Will the entire ocean die? Will just a few patches of the Gulf die? Or more likely will it not make the tiniest bit of difference?
This is probably some parts-per-billion phenomenon.
Arsenic is naturally found in some fish, and the concentrations approach regulatory limits. It's not clear in what compounds the arsenic appears; if it's locked into a compound that doesn't metabolize, it's probably not a problem.
Oh dear.
is there any other kind?
I am of the opinion that the best way to clean up the Gulf of Mexico is to Send the Enterprise (no, not that Enterprise, silly rabbits!). The complete proposal is given at the link.
Tell everyone you know.
(kuro5hin.org has two options for voting for a story: "Front Page" and "Section Page". 93% of the people who voted for my story voted FP, so I have reason to believe that my proposal has merit.)
Learn the rules so you know how to break them properly.
www.teslabox.com
With respect, that article shows the author really has not the remotest clue about the navy, oil experts, oil eating bacteria, oxygen in water, weather (stopping a hurricane - OMFG), and let me just add reality in general to the list.
Massive fuckups that can not be solved quickly with all the experts on earth happen - and this is one of them. We're just going to have to cope with it being fixed slowly.
It makes a good story to send a "ship of heroes" but unfortunately magic does not exist in this world so they won't be able to fix it any more quickly.
No, I'm just saying that some things in that article were bullshit from an anti-intellectual viewpoint.
It makes a good Tom Clancy story for the guy that has never been to school to come and put the experts to shame but I don't think it's going to stop an oil leak in reality.
310 MW is a drop in the ocean compared with the power of a hurricane.
Instead of calling me names why not watch the news or read a paper? Where did you get the impression that the US navy has oil drilling experts and why do you think they are better than anyone actually involved in drilling for oil - you are betting on mythical superheroes here. The suggestion is really just as silly as suggesting Kirk, Spock and Scotty fix it.
but I don't think it's going to stop an oil leak in reality.
Nothing in the proposal is about stopping the leak. It's about mitigating the impact that the oil is having on the gulf of Mexico.
Learn the rules so you know how to break them properly.
www.teslabox.com
I've been reading /. since 1999 and since the editors have gotten worse over the years and I don't know if I trust the primary sources, here is another example where I have no idea what to believe. Yay for the "this is my blog, I'll be an idiot with typos and stupid stories if i want" mentality you guys have had all along.
http://ireport.cnn.com/docs/DOC-461896
"According to Sagalevich’s report, the oil leaking into the Gulf of Mexico is not just coming from the 22 inch well bore site being shown on American television, but from at least 18 other sites on the “fractured seafloor” with the largest being nearly 11 kilometers (7 miles) from where the Deepwater Horizon sank and is spewing into these precious waters an estimated 2 million gallons of oil a day."
"As a prominent oil-industry insider, and one of the World's leading experts on peak oil, Simmons further warns that the US has only two options, “let the well run dry (taking 30 years, and probably ruining the Atlantic ocean) or nuking the well.” "
"On top of the environmental catastrophe currently unfolding in the Gulf of Mexico the situation may about to get even worse as new reports from the US are confirming the grim predictions of Russian scientists regarding the oil dispersement poisons being used by BP which are being swept up into the clouds and falling as toxic rain destroying every living plant it touches"
Too bad I have already commented on this story :(
It is epic compared to the amount of power you generate for the rest of us. It lasts far longer and is generated over far longer periods of time.
You misunderstand the definition of 'epic.'
Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
FTGE.
Does that not make sending the Enterprise worth doing anyways?
It makes about much sense as "cleaning beaches". It would be a PR campaign and nothing else. And a pretty expensive campaign at that. If you think an aircraft carrier is expensive in Dock. Just wait till its seaside.
310 Megawatts of power could "turn over" a lot of ocean water.
No it couldn't. In fact it could "turn over" hardly any at all. The ocean is not a swimming pool. Run the numbers... How much of just the gulf region can 310 MW "clean" after ruining for a century. Its nothing compared to how much is there.
Sometimes experts know too much...
And you are ignorant of basic facts, and are too lazy to even run some simple back of the envelope calculations. Thank God you are not in charge of fixing it, or we would really be screwed.
The Grey Goo disaster happened 3 billion years ago. This rock is covered in self replicating machines!
... since when is Obama the CEO of British Petroleum.
If you knew how to do it you would also know the concept of reservoir fracture or the instability of a salt dome. Suck my cock, you loser.
Wait, how the hell do you get oil up into the clouds? That stuff is fairly heavy and doesn't turn into vapor like water does.
Also what's nuking the well supposed to do? Blast the seafloor wide open and release even more oil? Not every problem in the world can be solved with nukes.
Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
Fish don't vote.
Drill, baby! Drill!
Palin / Haliburton 2012!!
Why don't people ever think of the bacteria? They're having a whale of a time (excuse the pun) down there right now.
Wait, how the hell do you get oil up into the clouds?
It's about the dispersant, not the oil. Anyway, have you never seen desert sand getting washed out of the air by rain? Aerosols can travel with the wind, you don't need to vaporize the liquid.
this is why this retard story got really posted to keep your minds off the GIANT SCAM
Oh come on, that wouldn't be the fault of the regulation. Let's assume that what you said really would be the case.
If the company is told "You are only allowed to drill this many wells." and the company decided "Oh, okay. Then we'll skip the relief wells!" it is the company that fucks up. Okay, regulators have also erred when they didn't say "And this many of the wells need to be relief wells" and assumed that the company would realize to take the responsibility. But the regulators wouldn't have forced the company to drill a single well. Rather, they would have given rules and the company decided "Well, within these rules, we can drill only so many wells safely... Okay, then we won't drill safely!"
That's like saying that this was really the regulators fault as the companies were drilling that far in the ocean because they weren't allowed to drill closer to the shore. But regulators didn't force them to drill far either. They just disallowed drilling close and practically said "You can't drill here. Drill there, if you can do it safely." and the companies thought "Well, that would be unsafe... But let's do it anyways!"
The regulators suck as they assumed that they could expect some responsibility from the oil companies. It is however quite clear, that when profits and enviromental safety clash, the companies choose profits and most certainly don't regulate themselves the slightest. That being the case, the problem was too lax regulation (They shouldn't have had permission to drill there, either), not too strict.
Khyber is troll... See his other posts...
1) His father designed the Harpoon radar guidance system
2) He worked at HP repair line right next to Dell help line
3) He has immense knowledge about pH and chemistry
4) and what do we have here... He has worked on oil platforms and his solution is
i) relief wells... mmm why didnt BP think of this... not wait... they started working on two relief wells long long ago and they have been trying (or pretending to do something in the meanwhile) to temporary stop the flow till the relief wells are operational.
ii) C-4s, ahh how innovative. When the GP talked about nuking it, did you somehow think it is the radiation from the nuke that would stop the leak? The GP effectively meant blow it up (he said with nukes, and you say with C-4s). And I would leave it as excersie to the reader, whether nuking it easier or C-4s are easier at this depth. PS: before someone flames me, I am neither in favor nor in opposition to blowing it up
"I can seal that bitch with half a million dollars worth of focused C-4 charges from 50 feet down to 500 feet of well-breach."
Unfortunately that would likely result in a casing failure as the pressure built up below the collapsed zone, and then you'd have a sub-sea blowout, and perhaps a short time after that you'd have it breach to the sea floor and achieve the (lack of evidence/wrong/insane) scenario that Simmons has fantasized already exists.
There is simply no evidence for the seepages elsewhere on the sea floor that Simmons somehow imagines are there. There are *natural* seeps on the Gulf of Mexico sea floor, but not related to this field or well. The ROVs wander all around the well site and there's no sign of anything nearby. And if there was evidence further away it would be impossible to cover it up. Simmons has mentioned these supposed sites several times in news accounts, but nobody with any scientific knowledge knows where the supposed seeps are or how he is coming up with it. He talks about huge "lakes" of oil beneath the sea surface, but those plumes have now been measured -- in ppm concentrations. There is no inconsistency between what is coming out of the single hole and the amount that has been observed at the surface and subsea.
Also, this well won't leak in significant amounts for 30 years. There isn't enough oil in the reservoir to sustain it at environmentally significant rates for that long. Even one of the greatest gushers ever, the Lakeview Gusher, which at its peak approached 100000 barrels/day, more or less killed itself in 18 months. The rock around the borehole in the reservoir eventually collapses and clogs the hole, or the pressure decline in the reservoir is sufficient that the flow ceases (or both).
Simmons claims are poorly-thought-out, unsubstantiated nonsense. He's a financier with a lot of oil experience, not a geologist, oceanographer, or engineer. But his wild claims make sensational press, which is the only reason I can think of why they keep putting him on talk shows and news segments, because his claims make no sense to anyone with a scientific background. For example, he's also claimed that the pressure in the reservoir is 100000 psi, when it was DIRECTLY MEASURED at ~11000 psi as the well was drilled. Even if the measurement was wrong, a fluid pressure of 100000 psi would be more than enough to fracture the rocks at that depth and cause the fluids to leak out of the formation until the pressure dropped back to normal. He just doesn't know what he's talking about.
Communism!!! That's right boys and girls, the free market loving USians brought us the oil spill and global communism is the only thing that will save us. Once we acheive that goal we can hasten the process to eliminate all nuclear and fossil fuels so we can embrace renewable energy sources such as solar, wind, and geothermal energies. Another goal is the total elimination of use and consumption of animals and all products from animals. Not only is it torture, slavery, and murder it is also one of the leading causes of greenhouse gases.
The way to acheive this is to swith everything over to the Euro. Once that is done *poof* no more US so the rest of the world can finally rest without worry from an imperialistic captialistic nation.
Sincerly,
Signed: The Rest of the World
On top of the environmental catastrophe currently unfolding in the Gulf of Mexico the situation may about to get even worse as new reports from the US are confirming the grim predictions of Russian scientists regarding the oil dispersement poisons being used by BP which are being swept up into the clouds and falling as toxic rain destroying every living plant it touches
Bullshit. Florida (as well as the rest of the Gulf coast) isn't some mysterious location about which little is known. If there was toxic rain "destroying every living plant it touches", we'd have a zillion people on the internet complaining about their messed up lawns. We'd probably have riots in Tallahassee (the capitol of Florida). This stuff would get in the news too. And Obama would have photo-ops all over the place. Because an evil oil corporation destroying voters' lawns, especially lawns in a critical swing state, is a crisis that Obama could use.
Keep in mind that the relief wells come in below most of that fracturing. It's also possible that the fracturing and oil leaks were already there. Just because oil leaks out of the Gulf seafloor, doesn't mean it came from a BP oil well.
Your referenced article talks about mg/kilogram in the fish, which is parts per million. The article doesn't reference any concentration of arsenic. Where does your quoted figure of ppb come from?
AccountKiller
Well the atmospheric pressure coupled with the water density at 4000-5000 ft below may just be a blessing indisguise.
The oil may achieve neutral buoyancy at aphotic zone thus left to hydrocarbon micro organisms having a big party.
I think you've forgotten that for the first 30 - 40 days or so, there was a complete media blackout on the oil spill. They were afraid to even report about it on any news network, including CNN. I think that BP and Obama were telling them not to report on it, that they had things under control and not to blow it out of proportion to the public. That's the only thing that could explain why it took so long for the media to jump on this story 24/7. The first reporter to really get angry about what was happening in the gulf was Anderson Cooper, by reporting on it he forced all the other networks to end their silence. With 24/7 coverage now, people realize this is actually a serious problem now. Even with all the coverage, most of the public still doesn't grasp that this is one of the most categorically dangerous events man has created in the history of world barely eclipsed by Chernobyl. It may even be worse, because of the uncontrollable extinction events occurring right now in the Gulf.
Anderson is probably one of the few reporters who actually gives a shit that this is happening. Everyone else is merely reporting on it, he feels and understands it. I remember watching each and every news network every single day thinking, I hope to hell someone starts beating the drums soon on how important this is. And, day after day, no one did. The day Anderson said, my god what have we done, I admired that guy. Took some balls, insight, and a backbone.
Sweet Delicious Arsenic, most poisonous of the heavy non metal elements.
Tsukasa: All I really want, is to be left alone...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WpJBsjKhRTo
CNN report: Obama admin bans press from filming BP oil spill areas in the Gulf
lol wut?
I can seal that bitch with half a million dollars worth of focused C-4 charges from 50 feet down to 500 feet of well-breach.
It's a trick to get us to do exactly that, triggering the fault line and bringing a volcanic island to the surface that Cobra can use as their headquarters. We're not going to fall for that ploy.
There's a perfect xkcd for my sig but I'm too lazy to look it up. sudo someone go find it.
Reports appear bogus to me.
The CNN story is a "user-submitted iReport," quite different from a news article. The iReport in turn, was plagiarized from an evangelical gloom-and-doom website, http://www.whatdoesitmean.com/index1374.htm
The toxic rain reported as resulting from oil dispersants was most likely caused by a FedEx fuel dump from 5,000 feet.
http://www.tennessean.com/article/20100701/BUSINESS/100701010/FedEx-acknowledges-crew-dumped-fuel-over-Shelby-County-
Amen. I wish I had mod points.
SUVs were and are the vehicles that make the highest profits for the manufacturers, most being primitive truck chassis with a trimmed-up cabin. Combine with a primitive inefficient engine whose design cost was recouped twenty years ago and you have the modern SUV. A polished turd indeed. A gas guzzler with bad performance and bad handling but of course the American consumer will take it if you spend enough on advertising.
thegodmovie.com - watch it
Are they enforcing the blackout with black helicopters or mind control rays?
What's with the "us or them, you don't agree with me so must be astroturfing" bullshit? It's not a very mature way to look at the world.
Fluoride (found in almost all toothpaste sold in the U.S., almost nonexistent in Europe toothpaste) is more toxic than arsenic. Well, many conspiracy-minded people, it seems, push that idea - but in reality it's quite close to arsenic as far as its 'relative toxicity' in humans.
high levels of arsenic : my boy is still being evaluated, he came down with something ... best way to describe it is autism with a 6 week onset at 6 years old, but it's not autism, more ASD, it's hard to describe, but suffice to say horrible, and a very good team of doctors (Dr House style) keep ordering more tests, eliminating things, showing nothing. so far the best lead is he has elevated levels of arsenic. He was in Chile over Christmas, there are copper mines there creating high levels of arsenic and chromium in the drinking water, enough so downstream the shellfish are not completely converting the inorganic arsenic into organic, and both, sad to say, are completely under-studied, especially in children.
There is one other kid who was in chile over christmas with the same symptoms, treated in a different medical center, nothing yet.
*sigh*
We don't know yet, it's only correlation.
Have a nice life
closed minded is as closed minded does
Jeeze! Do you watch the news at all? The government stated that there will be $40,000 fines and possible felony charges to "violators". They are enforcing the blackout with police and private security, and the coast guard. Yes, you do sound like you're defending the crooks(BP) here. They should not be calling the shots. Doesn't really matter. Nobody gives a shit. So there they are, covering up as best they can. You are defending the indefensible.
For justice, we must go to Don Corleone
Please provide a link to describe exactly what has to be done to be a "violator" so I know exactly what you imagine I'm defending and how it stacks up against what war correpondents deal with every day.
Please provide a link to describe exactly what has to be done to be a "violator"...
See here again you're not paying attention. There are plenty of vids showing reporters, or anybody with a camera being chased off the beaches. You simply have to cross an arbitrary line defined by British Petroleum with a camera (the defining condition, nothing to do with anybody's safety or interference), enforced by the US government. The CNN story has become somewhat viral, so it's very easy to find. The war correspondents don't apply. Much of the action there is classified. Any secrecy on the spill is absolutely unacceptable. And if I were that CNN reporter, I would be calling on all my viewers to call/write their reps and demand complete transparency... The bosses probably wouldn't allow that though. Big business.. brother in arms
For justice, we must go to Don Corleone
With respect, I haven't entirely trusted CNN ever since they showed a lot of "Palestinians" partying AT NIGHT wearing t-shirts with the Brazilian flag and soccer balls on them on 9/11 and said it was a celebration for the twin towers going down (middle of the day in mid-east then).
Surely you can do better than just telling me to watch CNN? Just about every newspaper on earth is on the net now, and there's the BBC etc.
Where's the reports of people getting charged and fined? What day are they in court? Is this real or just the story you get when the network is bored with the real story?
My replies here were all sparked by some guy linking a story containing incredible amounts of bullshit and because I was critical there's even people accusing me of working for BP. Simplistic knee-jerk "us and them" conspiracy theories are the sort of attitude you expect in a remote village in Afganistan and not in the well connected and well educated western world.
You should be asking yourself the question "why the government be doing this crap" and if you get answers that belong in a Bond movie you should ask "are they really doing that crap?".
You went beyond your initial point when you implied it's best to leave BP management in charge of the operation when clearly that is not the case. The is no "Bond movie conspiracy" That's merely your out of hand dismissal to marginalize those who want the truth. Yes they really are doing that crap. Read the documents already released that illustrate the corner cutting.
Forget it, man. You're just being obstinate.
For justice, we must go to Don Corleone
Read what documents? Show me where to find them.
You are also misinterpreting my point of view so I'll state it more simply. IMHO it's best to have oil experts fix oil problems first and then it's time to go looking for heads to kick when it's all over. I don't why people keep pretending I mean BP by that - all I really mean is it's stupid to call in the navy to do it when they don't have any oil experts. The guys on the ground that can actually fix it are the important thing and not whoever signs the papers, so long as they don't obstruct the experts.
The "ship of heroes" idea with some giant space laser that can stop a hurricane is pure fantasy - hence my post above.
I phrased that badly - actually I do mean kicking heads at BP, but did not mean they have to run the show.
It really does raise the question as to who can be brought in instantly to do it better and I can't answer that and I doubt anyone else here can either, so we're stuck with them or we lose by trying to change horses mid-race. I do know that the navy and a "ship of heroes" is not the answer, that should be blatantly obvious.
Maybe that's a lesson for the future, some sort of team spanning the entire industry similar to what is used for underground mine rescue in some countries.
I do know that the navy and a "ship of heroes" is not the answer, that should be blatantly obvious.
dude, the comment in the opening paragraph of my piece was solely a reference to the fictional Enterprise that most people think of first when they hear the proto-meme, "Send the Enterprise".
I want to get a nuclear-powered ship into the hands of gulf researchers and scientists, so they can see what can be done with hundreds of megawatts of thermal power. Seeing as I don't have any kind of platform to make that possible, I have to promote the idea somehow.
The stats say I've gotten more than 800 clicks in the last 26+ hours. Would that have happened if I'd've said something else ("try out oxygenating the plumes with the USS G.H.W. Bush")? You can think about that one yourself.
It's like the marketing genius said: if I haven't pissed someone off by noon I'm not doing something right. :) Two more people clicked on yesterday's link while I was typing up this response. Take that to mean what you will.
Learn the rules so you know how to break them properly.
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There is arsenic in every body of water in the USA...how much arsenic is the question.
Don't you think...? Or don't you?
I suggest that instead of taking advice from the idiot that wrote that article that you think for yourself. Nuclear is not equal to magic, it's real with real limitations.
310 MW is a drop in the ocean compared with the power of a hurricane.
Yes, but it's not aimed at the hurricane, it's aimed at the power source. If you wanted to darken the skies, would you attempt to put out the sun or build a gigantic mirror?
As in judo, a small amount of force applied in just the right place can have great effect.