Where Are the Joysticks For Retro Gaming?

Doctor O writes "With all those nice emulators for classic gaming around (such as MAME, VICE or Stella) I want to establish monthly retro gaming evenings with some friends. The problem is I can't find any good joysticks for that purpose. There's a new version of the legendary Competition Pro, but judging from the many one-star reviews on Amazon, it's terrible. I found the USB version of the classic Atari Joystick, but it doesn't seem to be available and would have prohibitive shipping costs to Germany anyway. So, Slashdot to the rescue — where are the suitable USB joysticks for retro gaming?"

Comments

Retro NES USB Controller

[Straker Skunk]

Is this what you're looking for?

Re:Retro NES USB Controller

[Reed Solomon]

interesting device. It'd be nice if they sold something like a motherboard that was just the software and video output. I've got an empty NES case sitting here, and while I could put an atom motherboard in it, it'd be neat to plug in a usb gamepad and an SD card slot into such a motherboard.

that said, the "dingoo" seems to offer a mini usb plug. I wonder .. would it be possible to plug in a regular usb hub into that port and then use it with a usb controller or two?

Re:Retro NES USB Controller

[Anonymous Coward]

Don't be silly. If he had wanted a joystick he would have asked a simple unambiguous question such as: "where are the suitable USB joysticks for retro gaming?"

Re:Retro NES USB Controller

[Doctor O]

OP here. I have seen the stick you offer (and many like it) on Amazon, but those a) usually are analog (digital sticks are much easier to operate) and b) can only be used standing on a desk etc., not hand-held. I'm going to connect the 'puter to my plasma and want to go for the "living room style" gaming. Even the old Quickshots were shitty in this respect because you'd need a book or something to put them on.

And you're spot on - I want a stick, not a pad. At 35, I'm in the pre-pad gaming generation and despise pads to the very day. No matter how much I practice, I just don't get the level of control of a nice, handy digital joystick.

Re:Retro NES USB Controller

[Moryath]

You want X-Arcade sticks.

Actual arcade hardware. USB connector, or the option to stick in modular controllers for PS2, PS3, Xbox, Xbox360... you name it. Lifetime warranty and EASY user servicing, too. Shoot them an email if any component fails, they'll mail you the replacement part, you stick it in yourself, easy as can be.

I bought a pair years ago, been upgrading them (very cheaply) as new systems came out. Love them and highly recommend them.

Re:Retro NES USB Controller

[Moryath]

Almost forgot: some people will say "yeah but those are expensive." My response: I've had over a decade of use on my pair, and they are still working flawlessly today. Just imagine the number of crap sticks (like those cheaply made piece of crap "Street Fighter IV Fighting Sticks" that wandered out from Crapcom for 360 and PS3, and ONLY work on their respective consoles) you'd buy over the years keeping up.

Pay a little more up-front to have something high-quality, that has a lifetime warranty on parts, that you can easily repair yourself without voiding the warranty, and that is cheaply upgradable to work when you update your console. It's well worth it.

Re:Retro NES USB Controller

[skids]

Though, it does have that "I'm an ergonomic train-wreck which is going to make your thumbs develop blisters and turn numb" quality to it, which is probably essential for a true retro-gaming experience.

I hear ya....

[cormandy]

How timely, as I have been asking the same question... I used to have an Apple //c, and although I have indulged in retro Apple // gaming on various emulators over the years, it was never quite the same without using a traditional Apple analogue joystick. I have since decided to tackle this obvious problem with some electronics hackery. I recently (as in last week) purchased an original Apple // analogue joystick at auction on eBay, and I plan on building an Apple-joystick-port-to-USB-human-interface-device adapter circuit using a microcontroller such as the Microchip PIC. Should be straight forward, and if I am successful I will publish a how-to online, with schematics, parts list, microcontroller source code and Gerber data for the PCBs. Wish me luck!

Re:I hear ya....

[uvajed_ekil]

I recently (as in last week) purchased an original Apple // analogue joystick at auction on eBay, and I plan on building an Apple-joystick-port-to-USB-human-interface-device adapter circuit using a microcontroller such as the Microchip PIC. Should be straight forward, and if I am successful I will publish a how-to online, with schematics, parts list, microcontroller source code and Gerber data for the PCBs. Wish me luck!

Luck? I am wishing you a girlfriend.

Re:I hear ya....

[somersault]

First things first - where do you get the schematics for a girlfriend-to-geek-interface-device?

Re:I hear ya....

[TheRaven64]

That's nice of you, but can you wait until after he's published the schematics? Girlfriends tend to have a terrible impact on geek productivity...

Re:I hear ya....

[MerlinTheGreen]

Devices based on V-USB (software only USB implementation for AVR microcontrollers) are probably worth a look because designs you can copy are so numerous.

This is one of the most versatile. I doesn't support the Apple IIc yet but the BBC joysticks had a similar capability so the only difference is likely to be in the adapter lead:

http://denki.world3.net/retro_v2.html

Perhaps you don't want to make your own circuit board. If so, I had a quick look at the retro's schematic and reckon you should be able to get the retro firmware running on an off the shelf board such as the one adafruit sell.

http://www.adafruit.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=16&products_id=174

I've got one of these and its a great little board. I built a temperature logger using one and I got it running (hardware and software) in about four hours. That said I did spend another three building the programmer!

Finally there a gallery of lots of HID devices made using cheap AVR controllers:

http://www.obdev.at/products/vusb/prjhid.html

Re:I hear ya....

[icebraining]

Exactly. And what's sad is that his "joke" has a better score than the original post. For shame, mods.

Re:I hear ya....

[Anonymous Coward]

Funny, that's what she said!

Re:I hear ya....

[L4t3r4lu5]

Here.

Re:I hear ya....

[Eudial]

You should have shipped with one. Look in your pants.

Re:I hear ya....

[AmiMoJo]

Note: I am the creator of the Retro Adapter.

As it happens I have just had a delivery of them from China where SeeedStudio partially assemble them. I was doing all the assembly myself but it was eating all my free time up so I asked them to do it. They are really good when it comes to supporting Open Source projects. They also did the PCBs and were very helpful.

I have some kits available or fully assembled ones. The biggest issue is getting the connectors for old systems like the NES and Sega Saturn. I have some Saturn connectors but NES ones are damn expensive... As such I generally recommend people modify their controller (in a way that doesn't prevent it working on the original system) but even that is a bit tricky for NES pads due to the weird wire they use.

Hopefully /. will generate some interest as so far there hasn't been much input on the code side. People have been helpful sending me controllers to support though.

Oh, and on the BBC from, I have just about finished converting a BBC Master Compact into a USB keyboard for a friend. It has a Retro Adapter built in too and a little amplifier so that the internal speaker can be connected to the PC line out. I have not had time to do a web page for it yet though, but it is all open source.

Madcatz Arcade

[Mantle]

http://gear.ign.com/articles/765/765614p1.html

These were going for around $10 on ebay a while ago.

If you want *good* - arcade controllers

[sznupi]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arcade_controller#In_the_home
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Namco_Arcade_Stick
etc. (there are also resources to build them)

Generally quite close to classic joysticks, only much better. They are slightly on the expensive side, but OTOH will be, most likely, the only link with you for your great-great-great-great-grandchildren / etc.

Re:If you want *good* - arcade controllers

[Mprx]

2nding this. I have an XBox 360 Mad Catz SFIV Fightstick modded with real Seimitsu arcade parts and it works great. It's tough and responsive and it works on Linux. Best controller I've used.

I followed these instructions: http://pineconeattack.com/2009/08/06/how-to-mod-the-madcatz-fight-stick-with-seimitsu-parts/

In the US and Japan you can buy a Hori Real Arcade Pro EX-SE with Seimitsu parts already included, but with import taxes it would have been too expensive for me. Or if you prefer you can use Sanwa parts, the other popular brand.

Ebay...

[karolbe]

My answer is Ebay: http://shop.ebay.com/?_from=R40&_trksid=p3907.m570.l1313&_nkw=joystick&_sacat=See-All-Categories

Keyboard may be best for some things

[VShael]

I use Mame quite a bit for the classic arcade games of my youth.
Those old games had every type of joystick. From the wireframe starwars game, which had a double handed pivotal 4 button thing, to the Outrun steering wheel and pedals, to the 6 button knob and stick Mortal Kombat. (And the track and ball of Missile Command, but I never did play that)

No one USB joystick controller is going to be suitable for every game you want to play.

On the other hand, I've found that keyboard and mouse are sufficient for about 95% of my gaming needs, with only the slightest hint of a readjustment to my style of play.

XArcade.

[serviscope_minor]

I have a dual XArcade joystick. It acts as a old fashioned PS-2 keyboard and you need to buy their keyboard to USB adapter, since most generic ones can't deal with many simultaneous key presses.

It's built like an arcade cabinet and is quite expensive as a result.

It's absoloutely fantastic. It can take a real punishing.

Re:USB Digital Joysticks Suck

[Bob_Sheep]

There are a few analogue joysticks of the type you are looking for here:
http://www.gremlinsolutions.co.uk/arcadejoysticks.php

The best joysticks for this sort of gaming are the ones intended for use in proper arcade cabinets.

Re:USB Digital Joysticks Suck

[cgenman]

Weren't Joust and Gyruss purely digital inputs? I'm trying to think of any non-trackball / non-wheel / non-paddle stick-based arcade games that used analog controls from a retro time-period, and the only one I'm coming up with is Afterburner.

Whats wrong with the USB Competition Pro?

[bickerdyke]

I own one and it gives exactly the same gaming experience as back in the good 'ol days of my beloved C64. (From the time I got rid of those floppy Quickshots IV)

Re:Whats wrong with the USB Competition Pro?

[Ravenger]

It's not bad, but it can't handle rapid joystick waggling. Try playing Wizball on a C64 emulator and waggle the stick to activate a power-up. It doesn't work half the time.

A couple of options I use

[necronom426]

I use one of my original Zipsticks with a Stelladaptor (http://www.stelladaptor.com/), so you could get an old Zipstick, Comp. Pro, etc. from eBay, then use the Stelladaptor to connect it to your computer with a USB lead.

The other thing I use (for games that require more than one button) is my home-made arcade controls (http://homepage.ntlworld.com/paul.a.kitching/mamecp/cp1.htm).

Use ORIGINAL joysticks!

[Per Wigren]

The best joysticks for retrogaming are of course the original ones with a Retro Adapter.

It has support for most original joysticks and gamepads: C64/Amiga, Atari 8-bit computers and consoles, Spectrum, Amstrad CPC, Sega Master System, Sega Genesis/Megadrive, Saturn, Neo Geo, MSX, BBC Micro, PCE/TGFX, NES, SNES, N64, PSX, PS2, 3DO, CD32, PC Gameport, you name it.

Re:Use ORIGINAL joysticks!

[Per Wigren]

I forgot to add: Their new page is here. I can't find a link to the new page from the old one.

Re:Use ORIGINAL joysticks!

[miggyb]

And since it's already slashdotted, the google cache is here: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=cache:http://denki.world3.net/retro_v2.html&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8

Re:Prohibitive shipping costs?

[Dr. Hok]

The linked USB device costs $16.99 One shipping option to (I picked Bayern) Germany was 16.95. So you get a retro joystick for under $35. They also have another shipping option that runs $28 so you'd be looking at $45. Still not what most people would consider prohibitive.

Plus import tax (14% IIRC) plus VAT (19%) plus "customs handling fee" (20%).

That's what I had to pay (on top of both the price and shipping) when I bought stuff at thinkgeek and had it shipped to Germany. So this $17 joystick would cost you $52, over 3 times the price. OTOH, $35 might be under the limit, so you might get along without paying taxes at all.

Re:PS3 Controller

[icebraining]

N64's gamepad was the best ever made, imho. And it even has the NES gamepad-like directional cross. Now, if I could just stop being lazy and build an adapter :|

Re:USB Atari RetroPort

[tepples]

can I just use any old USB-to-serial (USB Sub-D 9 pin) adapter?

No. Atari 2600 joysticks are not serial; they're 5-bit parallel. It would be possible to solder something to plug it into a standard parallel port, but that would need a parallel to USB adapter compatible with bidirectional bit-banging (most are optimized for printers and nothing else), a specialized driver, and a certificate to sign this driver (if using 64-bit Windows). The RetroPort adapter turns the parallel signal from the joystick into something that any game that takes DirectInput joysticks can recognize, using a driver built into every PC operating system since Windows 2000.

tripling their price for taxes and customs and fees

Ordinarily I'd be thinking to myself "get your ___ the ____ up out of Brazil already", based on my experiences on nesdev.com/bbs, but now it appears Brazil isn't the only place with prohibitive import duties.

[A LAN party] would require me to set up electricity, networking (apart from the 10-port switch on my desk), tables

Thank you for the ammo that I can use against LAN-party fanboys in future Slashdot discussions.

when all I want to do is sit on the couch in front of the plasma and enjoy some 8-bit goodness

I agree, with two caveats: With a plasma, you see afterimages of the 8-bit games' HUD. The burn-in effect, though it's apparently less pronounced than with older plasma, is one reason why I prefer LCD. And most home PCs are next to a desk, not in a TV cabinet.

Build your own...

[CoolCash]

Get a USB Arcade Controller and go to Happ Controls. For a total of about $60 in parts you can build any arcade control design you want. These are real arcade buttons and joysticks so they will last.

Re:Gravis?

[Anonymous Coward]

I'd go for X-Arcade sticks if money is no object, alternatively you could do what I did and get a console from an old street fighter II arcade machine (14 buttons and two sticks - I picked one up for about US $10 2nd hand) and connect it to something like the ultimarc i-pac. My SFII console is stuck to a cabinet, but it's not hard to make or modify a box to make it stand alone.

These options give you the possibility of replacing faulty microswitches and buttons cheaply, and make them the only way to go if you and your friends clock up serious hours, and both options will work nicely if you decide to go to a full cabinet so you can really go to town on the joysticks like a real arcade machine.

You can use an old keyboard but you'll be lucky to get more than about 6 buttons and one stick before you start running into conflicts, and you won't get the performance of X-Arcade or i-pac controllers.

Hope this helps.

Re:USB Digital Joysticks Suck

[Boiling_point_]

I'm trying to think of any non-trackball / non-wheel / non-paddle stick-based arcade games that used analog controls from a retro time-period, and the only one I'm coming up with is Afterburner.

MAME can answer that question, more or less.

Under the MAWS deluxe search, change 'controls' to 'stick' which is MAME-ese for analogue joystick/yoke. You get this list including things like 720, Enduro Racer, Paperboy, SW/TESB/ROTJ, Space Harrier and Thunder Blade to pick a few classics.

To respond to the original question about joysticks, a lot of people build their own arcade sticks. The parts are readily available and the build doesn't need to be hard.arcadecontrols.com is a great resource and community for scratching that itch.

The truth is though that every type of home system is/was different, and the controls that suit a Commodore 64 and nothing like what suits a SNES, or an N64. If you're trying to recreate original-feel controllers for even a handful of emulated systems, it's going to be a lot of hassle obtaining them all, let alone getting them to work. A decently-made fighter stick plus an X360 controller should be enough to cover most bases most of the time.