Slashdot Mirror
Droid X Self-Destructs If You Try To Mod
An anonymous reader writes with some discouraging news for hack-oriented purchasers of the new Droid X phone: "If the eFuse fails to verify [the firmware information (what we call ROMS), the kernel information, and the bootloader version], then the eFuse receives a command to 'blow the fuse' or 'trip the fuse.' This results in the booting process becoming corrupted, followed by a permanent bricking of the phone. This FailSafe is activated anytime the bootloader is tampered with or any of the above three parts of the phone has been tampered with."
Someone will find a way around this very quickly
In this case it's more a case of "Motorola Evil". Google provides the OS but the manufacturer still integrates it into the device.
My next upgrades isn't until December, but I can already say that Droid X is off the table. Hopefully HTC will have out something new and shiny by then. If not, I'll still go for the Incredible over the X. I've had nothing but trouble from Motorola phones anyways.
"People who think they know everything are very annoying to those of us who do."-Mark Twain
If I purchase the phone outright, wouldn't this be willful destruction of property on Motorola's part? Does a company have the right to destroy a purchased product - after the sale - if the consumer doesn't use it in a prescribed manner?
Can You Say Linux? I Knew That You Could.
Well, it's more of a Motorola issue than an Android issue. Just because an operating system is open doesn't mean the corporation that installed it isn't going to be a jackass.
It's not as if there's no precedent for this. There's a certain operating system based upon open source components from Mach, FreeBSD, GNU, and KDE, which is somewhat infamous for being closed. At least you can load and run your own programs onto the Droid X, even if you can't update the operating system to your own version.
You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
Ah... I guess I won't be buying a DroidX then. Sad, really... I was looking forward to getting one when the contract was up on my Droid.
And I've been very happy with my Droid. Now, one wonders...was this done to suit Verizon or if it was on Moto's own thinking that it was done. I might not have modded my phone when I got it, but doing things like this are a real put-off. I bought the phone, it's mine to do with as I see fit- and putting in things like this take that away from me. It turns it into Motorola's device or Verizon's device and I'm just renting it. Sorry, you SOLD me a phone guys and if you're concerned about "user experience" or "risks to the network" design the damn phone to not need to be concerned about EITHER- and anything else is lying to the customer outright.
I am not merely a "consumer" or a "taxpayer". I am a Citizen of the State of Texas
Sure they will... But I don't appreciate having them try to transform it more into a rental of the device than a sale- and then framing it in as a sale. I'm sure there's other people that'll view it the same way as I.
Sadly, I'm fairly sure Verizon asked Moto to do this- they always seem to find a way to miss the point and try to assert "control" over everything.
I am not merely a "consumer" or a "taxpayer". I am a Citizen of the State of Texas
More likely covering their asses against the FCC.
Go green: turn off your refrigerator.
Because of this setup--isn't it entirely possible that some sort of malware can be created to actually attempt to brick the phone by triggering efuse?
A hardware company actually put a self-destruct mechanism in the phone when you change the software.
A. This will get tripped accidentally, even for naive users, and will cost owners money to fix.
B. This violates the idea of ownership of the device. Motorola figures that they're licensing you parts, not selling. For an "open" OS, this is insane.
C. Once you get around it, unless you can destroy the code, you still have that thing hanging around. A mistake or bad combination later on could trip it -- there's no reason to have to put up with walking through a minefield.
All this translates to "Spread the news, blacklist the phone, send a message to Motorola." Because if this goes on as a "who cares" thing, all Motorola Android phones will have it in future and other companies will follow suit.
This needs to be a black eye for Motorola, they need to notice that, and they need to quickly backpedal.
This is just another nail in the coffin for Motorola, who becomes more and more irrelevant every year, being pushed out of the market on both sides by Apple and HTC.
HTC makes the most robust and moddable phones on the planet, and do not try to stop the modding in any way - in fact one may say they passively encourage it.
This post is coming from someone who owns a 4 year old HTC Vogue that came shipped with Windows mobile 6.0, but thanks to the modders, has been upgraded to 6.1 and 6.5, and more recently ove rthe past 3 months, has been running a fully working version of Android that is lightning fast. All on 4 year old hardware.
This is what can be done when you don't shut out your customers - I am an HTC purchaser for life now.
I did follow the TFA to the origin of the story (MyDroidWorld forum), and I still don't see any code, captured data or even a photo of the said eFuse chip inside the DroidX. I understand that the original poster appears to be a reputable hacker, but come on, what kind of real reporting is this? Can anyone else verify these claims? More information needed, thank you very much whoever posts it, because if true, this is an outrage.
There's also another OS that is based upon open source components from Mach, FreeBSD, GNU and KDE which allows me to install whatever I want without having to jailbreak, root, break bootloaders, etc...Clicky
In reality, the main appeal of Android operating systems is that they give phone manufacturers a serious competitor to Apple and they don't have to pay Microsoft. Not to mention, they probably don't care for Windows Mobile.
The problem is that what made the Android OS a serious competitor to Apple was that it wasn't locked. If a phone running Android is locked as tight as an Iphone, I may as well get the Iphone and the "coolness" of owning an Apple product.
The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
Which is basically what he was saying. Droid is a line of Motorola smartphones, and this certainly is a good reason to stay away from it. Where did the OS even come into this?
I hope Motorola get's a nice class-action suit out of this.
Imagine a nice little virus, designed to trigger the 'self-destruct' and some innocent users getting infected.
Markus
Apple evil, Google good.
And it still holds.
Google can't be responsible for everyone else though.
(But they for sure could restrict usage for more open phones by pushing whatever demands they wanted. The risk for them of course would be that phone companies may decide to pick another product and hence Google would lose the data of their consumers. In a perfect world I would had preferred a "open" phone as far as the OS goes directly from Google, which is sure to run future versions. Stock everything would be fine. I trust them much more than any third-party provider.)
From AT&T's point of view, you would be correct. But we're talking about Motorola here. They do not lose a penny on phone sales because AT&T (and other companies) subsidize them.
Motorola ... how the once mighty have fallen.
Don't these idiots GET IT ?
99% of users will never try to hack their phones.
The 1% who do and end up with a brick will make this situation
world-famous, and Moto will end up looking like assholes.
I for one will never buy a Moto phone again, after the last one I owned
( RAZR, what a piece of crap that was ).
Don't forget that Motorola phones only have a few die-hards working on ROMS. Compare the forum for the CLIQ on modmymoto.com to the ones for HTC devices on xda-developers. The iPhone also has a big jailbreaking/modding scene, and I'm sure there will be a bunch of cool apps on Cydia once iOS 4.1 comes out and is jailbroken.
If I were to buy an Android phone, I'd go with an N1, or the "official" Google stuff. Second choice will be almost any HTC device because they actually put out source and tools to help with modding.
eFuse is an IBM brain child, and they have it in several of their RISC products. The XBox 360 has one in its xenon (ibm power pc) processor. The Texas Instruments OMAP processors that motorola chose for their droid x are using the eFuse technology. The statement that it is not reversible via software is bull, once you figure it out, you can set up a JTag interface (as any serious modder will do anyway) and then you can reverse the eFuse bits and try your mod again.
Wasn't the android phones meant to be the openish alternative to the wall^H^H^H^Hputrid compost offered by Apple?
No.
The Android operating system was meant to be an openish alternative for the phone manufacturers. It's up to them to repeat apples ways by walling up their phones too.
Butthey shouldn't forget that people who trade in a stable system with a hand-picked selection of possibel apps for a locked down system tend to buy an iPhone in the first place.
bickerdyke
Return the devices for refund. Tell Verizon why.
It's like Tivoization: the software is open, but the hardware blocks any changes.
Nae king! Nae laird! Nae yurrupiean pressedent! We willna be fooled again!
The laughs will come if consumers decide that they don't care and buy the phone anyway despite headlines saying how Motorola has put a self destruct chip in the phone. The carriers will probably play hardball with every device manufacturer and get this technology in every Android phone so they can brag about an open platform but lock down the updates and stop providing Android updates a year after the phone is released.
If consumers ignore the Droid and other phones that implement such anti-consumer chips, then it'll be a victory for Android users, resiting attempts to take away from the openness of the platform.
In reality, the main appeal of Android operating systems is that they give phone manufacturers a serious competitor to Apple and they don't have to pay Microsoft. Not to mention, they probably don't care for Windows Mobile.
The problem is that what made the Android OS a serious competitor to Apple was that it wasn't locked. If a phone running Android is locked as tight as an Iphone, I may as well get the Iphone and the "coolness" of owning an Apple product.
Nah, openness had nothing to do with android being a serious competitor.
Gah, not you necessarily, but so many people latch on to a company/product just like they would a sports team. This isn't sport, this is business, and most people buy what's convenient (standing around at a phone store...walmart, radio shack etc...) and what is seemingly cool (shiny graphics... yay), and more and more, what is cheaper than their current stuff.
The coolness factor is probably a bigger factor than anything else. Apple has sexy commercials for their products. The lesson to be learned here is that sexy sells, technobabble mostly sucks by itself, but throw in cute people and wow, I gots to have that 10g phone with xyz widgets now!
All the worlds a stage, and I'm the guy running the lights...
Is all the GPL code in Android under such a version of GPL, that this is legal? I mean, it prevents the user from changing certain parts of the GPL software, something which at least some versions of GPL require, as far as I understand.
Android users can buy a different, more open Android device. You've not even got that option on iOS.
No kidding!!! What do you say at this point?
Isn't this exactly what the GPL v3 is designed to prevent (Tivo-ization)? Seems like FSF's concerns are once again coming true. Too bad Linux won't ever adopt v3, it seems.
Droid, DroidX, Droid2 and others -- they all have this efuse, it's nothing new. Perhaps rather than making assumptions based on the presence of a device, someone could do some actual research to find out if this is really a concern? Just because the chip is present does not mean it's configured to brick the phone - it certainly hasn't done so in other Android devices using it.
From where I sit, Motorola / Verizon are more evil than Apple / AT&T. Well, OK, AT&T is pretty fucking evil, but the reality is that Apple has never been about open devices and so has never violated any trust with any communities, because iPhone has always been a walled garden. On the other hand Android is wide open, yet they are coupled with Verizon, notorious for locking down phones and removing features, and Motorola who knows fuck all about good software. Android + (Verizon and Motorola) seems like oil and water to me. Plus the Droid-X software seems to not be getting good reviews today: http://gizmodo.com/5587225/motorola-droid-x-review meaning that hacking it is even more desirable.
I still cannot find the droids I am looking for...
Even a locked down self destructing Android phone is 10x more open then an iPhone. You know you can still install your own applications, right? You know you can use your locked up tight Android phone for streaming podcasts (over 3G no less!), tethering, instant messaging, multi-tasking, wifi metering/sniffing, file management, accessing FTP servers, playing non hardware-supported media types, google latitude, free theft protection, customizable home screens, widgets, porn(!), universal file system, change the default launcher, use skype, flash, use non-webkit browsers, use a full bluetooth stack, VOIP, tight google voice integration, expandable memory, remote or local torrent control, reading around the world in 80 days by Jules Verne, offensive apps, installing apps outside the app store, listen to nine inch nails, use alternative music players/music stores, dope wars, watch south park, use alternative keyboards, voice texting/typing, plenty of navigation apps, replace the battery, alternative SMS/alerts/quick reply apps, search emails, apply custom themes, console emulation (nintendo, sega, super nintendo, ps, etc.), sample apps and return them if they suck. The iPhone does none of those things (or does them in some sort of crippled way) so who is laughing at who?
or else!
Where's you god now, Googlebots? WHERE'S YOUR GOD NOW?
Come over to the iSide, it's shiny!
Will do. Just as soon as iProduct doesn't require iTunes and will mount as a standard USB storage device on any device that can use USB drives.
For fifty freaking bucks a month, just so you can send text messages AND make calls? are you fucking kidding me?
My experience of America so far is that for every walk of life there's a government-backed corporate monopoly eager to bend you over the barrel, but even by American standards the GSM networks are fucking highway robbery (yes I know Verizon isn't even GSM, but they're no better in any other respect either). I have my own non-smart phone and I want to continue using it instead of switching to your country's third-world technology.
No, fuck T-Mobile and fuck every other carrier over here too. Why should I beg and show gratitude for something that's a basic service in every other part of the world.
The story most probably refers to an actual fuse inside a chip that is made by a layer of polysilicon - it can be made to melt and blow just like the common electrical fuse. In this case, there is no return.
Another feature that Apple will probably copy!
The CB App. What's your 20?
Can't wait for it.
Burn FAT not OIL
It's all explained in the very last sentence of the summary. You should know to read Slashdot summaries backwards by now.
Slashdot social media options: AIM, ICQ, Yahoo, Jabber and Mobile Text. Why no MySpace?
Fuck you. They pointed out that there is exactly that at T-Mobile, and then you turn around and bitch some more? What more do you want?
I can't tell if you're trying to be sarcastic, but I'll bite. You really think that paying $99 a year is a good way to have a 3rd party application environment? How does that enable a community of any kind? Seems like you're probably only able to install apps that you write at that point and that is nothing compared to being able to access a development community. What if your business model doesn't match Apple's rigid App store?
What good is tethering if you're not allowed to do it? It's effectively the same problem. What good is multitasking if you STILL can't do instant messaging? What good is even having instant messaging if you still don't have anything even close to a reasonable notifications system?
You cherry picked a few things out of a long list and even those are pretty piss poor substitutes.
Look, I love the iPhone and I love iOS, but if you're trying to defend it as being open then you're delusional. I own an iPad. It's a toy. I would never accept an OS like that on my phone.
or else!
If I paid for the hardware then it's mine, I own it, in spite of what big telcom wants you to think.
I was actually considering getting this phone, I guess they just lost a customer.
^^vv<><>BA
I guess that is the euro-peon way to spell boogers..how quaint and continental and all...
anyway, I said "like" Openmoko. And here's the deal. No huge corporation is going to sell you an open anything any more, it conflicts with their skewed notion of "shareholder value" and "leveraging their intellectual properties" and other buzz speak. So..ya'all phone modders can either start supporting projects like openmoko, so it can be developed beyond the "boogers" stage, or just keep whining that your new iGS turboprofitphone is "locked down" and you can't do what you want to do with it.
Also on telco "plans".. I see kvetching galore about stupid two year "plans".. geez loweez this *ain't* rocket surgery, stop using plans, stop rewarding those lame ass "plans", go prepaid. Vote with your wallet, or don't be surprised when eventually your options for cellphones plus connectivity have been narrowed down to very sucky versus extremely sucky. You get what you pay for, keep paying for closed off/locked down two year suck plans on closed off/locked down suck phones, they'll keep selling that to you.
I dunno, supposedly there's an app for everything