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The Gulf's Great Turtle Relocation Project

Posted by timothy on from the moving-quickly dept.

An anonymous reader writes "All along the Gulf Coast's beaches it's turtle-hatching season. Conservationists knew the poor hatchlings wouldn't have a chance if they swam out into the oily waters of the Gulf, so they came up with an incredibly ambitious plan: they would dig up 70,000 turtle eggs, carefully raise them in a climate-controlled hanger at the Kennedy Space Center, and release the hatchlings into the clean Atlantic waters off Florida's east coast. Now that project is well underway, and Discover Magazine has pictures of the first batch of hatchlings crawling toward the welcoming waves. But there's a chance all this do-gooding won't do any good. New Scientist found experts who argue that releasing them into the Atlantic rather than into the Gulf will screw up the turtles' navigation systems, which will prevent them from following their normal migratory routes."

34 of 104 comments (clear)

  1. It's spelled with an 'a', dammit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

    carefully raise them in a climate-controlled hanger at the Kennedy Space Center

    That's hangar, not hanger. Like with separate, it's annoying how few people manage to get it right...

  2. Which beach? by The+Grim+Reefer2 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    So will the return to the beach they were released from? Or back to the ones in the gulf? I suspect this will make for some very interesting research in the future.

    1. Re:Which beach? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      They will dutifully crawl out of the ocean and back into the KSC hangar in which they were raised. We'll subsequently hear about some rocket failing to achieve orbit when a clutch of turtle eggs mysteriously causes some malfunction.

  3. Look at the bright side by meerling · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Maybe they'll end up establishing new populations in different locations.
    It's certainly better to give them the chance rather than simply let them be exterminated.

    I know, it's a complex situation with many variables that can't even be fully defined, much less accounted for. That's true, but we can only try to mitigate this disaster as best we can, or sit back and complain about those who are trying to fix it. Your choice.

    1. Re:Look at the bright side by Huntr · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Sometimes doing SOMETHING is worse than not doing anything. Don't be pissed at ecologists who have legit concerns about the turtles. Save that for BP and the gov't response.

    2. Re:Look at the bright side by copponex · · Score: 5, Funny

      That's true, but we can only try to mitigate this disaster as best we can, or sit back and complain about those who are trying to fix it. Your choice.

      This is slashdot. Brace yourself.

    3. Re:Look at the bright side by Chris+Burke · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Maybe they'll end up establishing new populations in different locations.
      It's certainly better to give them the chance rather than simply let them be exterminated.

      I think it's important to note that while 70,000 eggs seems like a lot, it comes from only 800 nests in two states. Turtles lay a lot of eggs, because most of them are not going to survive in any case.

      The point here is that they're hardly moving all the turtle hatchlings to the east coast, so if moving them is futile or even detrimental compared to leaving them in the Gulf, that'll be apparent in the outcome of the sea turtles that will hatch in the sands of the Gulf coast. On the other hand, if they have even a chance to survive in the Atlantic while the Gulf ends up being certain death for the turtles left there, then that's a huge win. The species occurs naturally on the Atlantic coast, so it's not like we're introducing a new species with potentially detrimental consequences.

      There's very little downside here, and the potential for a huge upside. The experts may be right that it is futile, but it is absolutely worth trying and I commend these folks for it.

      --

      The enemies of Democracy are
    4. Re:Look at the bright side by Asic+Eng · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Sometimes doing something can be worse than not doing anything - that can be true sometimes, but nobody has suggested it's the case here. However the question has been asked "Why not place them into an area that is thought to be part of their normal migratory route?" Which is an interesting point.

      Of course it's not like the US Fish and Wildlife Service hasn't considered that. [...] releasing the turtles on sand allows scientists to assess how they are coping with the move. The process also mimics turtles' natural behaviour.

      I don't know which side has it right, all involved appear to have arrived at their conclusions by thoroughly considering the alternatives. I don't think it's very useful to delude ourselves that we can determine the correct approach just from a quick glance at a headline. There are lots of complex issues around - that's just the way the world works.

    5. Re:Look at the bright side by Chris+Burke · · Score: 2, Funny

      This is slashdot. Brace yourself.

      Bracing yourself is futile, and only idiots would try it.

      --

      The enemies of Democracy are
    6. Re:Look at the bright side by sjames · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Consider it risk mitigation. There's some risk relocating them and there's more certain risk NOT relocating them. They're quite unlikely to relocate all of them. This maximizes the odds of some surviving.

    7. Re:Look at the bright side by rollingcalf · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Their survival rate is likely to be much higher than usual, because the eggs that are relocated in this project won't be dug up and eaten by animals, and the hatchlings also won't be killed by predators when making their way to the sea.

      --
      ---------
      There is inferior bacteria on the interior of your posterior.
    8. Re:Look at the bright side by whoda · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Putting non-native species into alternate natural environments has never led to any problems...

    9. Re:Look at the bright side by _Sprocket_ · · Score: 3, Funny

      This is slashdot. Brace yourself.

      You're imagining a Beowulf cluster of turtle hatchlings, aren't you.

  4. Sad by ceraphis · · Score: 4, Funny

    This is really sad, I always liked turtles. And frogs.

    We may soon see a rash of BP stations being razed with the only clue being some discarded pizza boxes.

    1. Re:Sad by Locke2005 · · Score: 3, Funny

      Dude, there wouldn't be any Mutant Ninja Turtles in the first place were it not for chemicals in the water!

      --
      I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
  5. Sure, I can see the disadvantage... by garyisabusyguy · · Score: 5, Interesting

    That the 'experts' are worrying about, but really... what are the other options?

    What are the potential outcomes of letting the hatchlings make their way into the polluted water?
        Turtles die of exposure to oil
        Turtles survive because all the predators have already died from the oil
        Most turtles die, except for a few that have a natural ability to survive on oil
        Surviving turtles attack remaining oil reservoirs and consume them

    Seriously, I think that the people who have committed themselves to preventing a straight up die off of an entire generation of gulf-coast turtles should be commended as heros.

    fwiw, I hope that the 70K extra turtle on the Atlantic coast overwhelm the natural predators and allow more hatchlings to reach adulthood. Is there a chance that the introduced population could displace the natives? Possibly.

    What have been the results of other navigating species (salmon, birds, monarch butterflies...) who are relocated?

    --
    Wherever You Go, There You Are
    1. Re:Sure, I can see the disadvantage... by thegarbz · · Score: 4, Funny

      You missed one outcome:
      - Turtles grow to their teenage years, mutate and then move into the city sewers placing a strain on pizza joints who are unable to figure out where to deliver the pizza.

    2. Re:Sure, I can see the disadvantage... by camperdave · · Score: 2, Funny

      "Hey, where're ya goin'?"
      "Winter feeding grounds... I think"
      "You're going the wrong way"
      "Damn humans. Mind if I follow you?"
      "Be my guest."

      --
      When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
    3. Re:Sure, I can see the disadvantage... by drinkypoo · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I expect that we'll never be able to tell whether this has done any good at all...

      Actually, if any turtle populations are established on the east coast, we'll know if it's done any good at all. Especially if populations decline in the gulf, which they are almost guaranteed to do.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  6. always nay-sayers by phantomfive · · Score: 4, Insightful
    You are always going to have people complain, even if you came up with a 100% clean, 100% efficient new energy source there would be some people who complain the miss the taste of pollution or something. Will the turtles die?

    His view is backed up by evidence that suggests turtles are programmed from birth to follow a specific migratory path once in water. Indeed, turtles from different nesting sites seem to inherit different sets of navigational instructions.

    Basically, in the past they have exposed turtles (in tanks?) to magnetic fields and found that they follow the magnetic fields as if they were navigating through the ocean. It kind of surprises me that no one has ever taken a turtle from Texas and put it in the ocean in Florida just to see what would happen. Here is their chance: hope they pay attention to what the turtles do.

    --
    Qxe4
    1. Re:always nay-sayers by PolygamousRanchKid+ · · Score: 2, Funny

      It kind of surprises me that no one has ever taken a turtle from Texas and put it in the ocean in Florida just to see what would happen.

      Well, that's my vacation plans settled.

      Airline Check-in in Texas: "Two for Florida? Um, where's the other passenger?"

      Me: "It's this here turtle."

      On the airplane . . .

      Me: "Stewardess, another Martini for me and another squid for the turtle."

      Stewardess: "I think you've had enough, sir."

      Me: "Don't worry, the turtle is driving."

      --
      Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
  7. best thing is to try both ideas by cats-paw · · Score: 3, Funny

    release 1/2 from the sand
    release 1/2 out to sea

    Then we'll know, right ?

    --
    Absolute statements are never true
  8. Re:A Waste Of Time by garyisabusyguy · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This study shows how the east coast turtles make their way to the gulf stream using; visual cues, wave direction and (finally) magnetic direction:
    http://www.unc.edu/depts/oceanweb/turtles/offshr.html

    They do not show any info on how they make their way back.
    What information are you using to determine that they will just wander back to the gulf?

    At the very least this will give a great study on the 'homing' tendencies of turtles. Do they reurn to where they were hatched (learned behavior) or do they return to where their genetic forebearers lived (genetic imprinting)?

    What advantage do you see to allowing them to die? Is it simply less work for humans? And if those people were not already actively invovled in fixing the well or cleaning up sludge, what negative effect could it have on those efforts?

    --
    Wherever You Go, There You Are
  9. Re:more cancelled vacations by h4rr4r · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Perhaps all those places need to send BP the bill.

  10. Not Clear We'll Know the Outcome by dangle · · Score: 2, Informative

    Nowhere have I seen any information about tagging the turtles to monitor their progress. It might be impossible given their small size at birth in comparison to their adult size, and the fact that this population takes about 18 years to reach sexual maturity. The LAT has a few more details: http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-oil-spill-turtles-20100715,0,2244379.story

  11. Relocated to stainless steel tubs .... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    then placed over a flame and lightly seasoned. Mmmm turtle soup.

  12. Re:What Food? by FriendlyLurker · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I have to wonder - if all the baby turtles natural predators are already dead, and we go release ~70'000 healthy hand nurtured healthy turtles in an ecosystem whose balance has been totally screwed up, perhaps for many decades to come... whether we are just going to be heaping more shit on top of what we have already dumped on the system. The ecosystem does not care that turtles have big teary looking eyes - those little beak's still have to eat something...

  13. Duh? by b4upoo · · Score: 3, Informative

    The same species that nest in the Gulf also nest on the East Coast of Florida which is oil free. The real issue is whether the built in homing instinct for nesting will be to the original nest or to the transplant nest from which they emerge. I have no knowledge of whether the issue has ever been studied. Either way it is still a big problem as the East Coast breeding grounds may not support additional nests as over population and erosion take their toll on natural conditions.

  14. Re:What Food? by Gavin+Scott · · Score: 5, Funny

    Indeed, and when those poor turtles have been exposed to all the toxic mutagens in the oil and the weird chemical dispersants that have been employed, we could all be in serious trouble once they become teenagers...

    G.

  15. Re:What Food? by The+Grim+Reefer2 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Indeed, and when those poor turtles have been exposed to all the toxic mutagens in the oil and the weird chemical dispersants that have been employed, we could all be in serious trouble once they become teenagers...

    G.

    True, but thy still have to find a rat to train them...

  16. Turtle relocation is easy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    RIGHT 90
    RIGHT 90
    FORWARD 100

  17. crossovers by hyperion2010 · · Score: 2, Funny

    Anyone else feeling a TMNT / Captain Planet crossover right about now?

  18. Re:A Waste Of Time by atomicthumbs · · Score: 2, Interesting

    So it's bad to try to fix something we screwed up?

    --
    http://pinopsida.com
  19. A+ for effort though by JasoninKS · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Even if the turtle's navigation is goofed because of the relocation, at least the people from this project are trying something. I can certainly applaud that. Better to give these turtles a fighting chance than sending them to definite doom.