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China Shoots Down Another Satellite

An anonymous reader writes "It was reported this weekend that China shot down another of its satellites in January this year. 'The website of Hong Kong-based Phoenix TV said the anti-satellite missile test, if confirmed, is likely related to the missile interception test, which occurred at the peak of a dispute between Beijing and Washington on a massive US arms sales deal to Taiwan. During the interception test, US agencies spotted two missiles launched from two locations from the Chinese mainland, colliding outside the atmosphere, a Pentagon spokesperson said.' I guess ballistic trajectories that intersect with orbital ones don't count as 'weapons in space.'"

32 of 221 comments (clear)

  1. More broken china by NEDHead · · Score: 4, Funny

    in orbit. Great.

    1. Re:More broken china by MichaelSmith · · Score: 2, Interesting

      While we are on the subject: why have subject lines?

  2. What the hell? by nebaz · · Score: 4, Funny

    Nice way to make even more space junk. Nice going, China. Are you trying to destroy access to LEO over time?

    --
    Rhymes that keep their secrets will unfold behind the clouds.There upon the rainbow is the answer to a neverending story
    1. Re:What the hell? by blair1q · · Score: 3, Funny

      Not a problem.

      We now have a laser that can zap the junk out of space.

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-10682693

      But I still say what we really need is this guy:

      http://www.imdb.com/media/rm3025049600/tt0077066

    2. Re:What the hell? by jpmorgan · · Score: 5, Interesting

      The article is unclear, but it sounds more like China tested their ASAT weapon against a launched suborbital target, not an actual satellite as the headline suggests.

      A fast ballistic trajectory that either immediately returns to earth, or returns after a couple of orbits, would be a comparatively responsible way of testing these weapons. A well designed test would have most of the same challenges as firing on an actual satellite, without leaving a semi-permanent debris cloud.

    3. Re:What the hell? by cyfer2000 · · Score: 3, Informative

      They make radars for F15, F18, F22... Patriot and a lot of other missiles. And Raytheon also invented microwave oven.

      --
      There is a spark in every single flame bait point.
  3. Will the debris be a problem? by DarkFencer · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Does anyone know how much of an issue the debris from these satellites are? From the perspective of collisions in orbit more so than what happens when it lands (I imagine the parts are small enough that reentry will take care of them).

    1. Re:Will the debris be a problem? by drpimp · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Even if it never rains down or enters the atmosphere, it's just as much of a problem just orbiting depending who you ask Debris Cloud

      --
      -- Brought to you by Carl's JR
    2. Re:Will the debris be a problem? by jeffmeden · · Score: 2, Informative

      It often takes more energy to de-orbit something (so it burns up) than it does to escape-orbit it (so it flies off into space)... A "shoot-down" pretty much always means "we scattered it into several lower and higher orbits". The only hopes for it removing itself from orbit are by atmospheric drag causing it to decay until it falls to earth.

    3. Re:Will the debris be a problem? by Sir_Lewk · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The difference between the space junk made by the US and the space junk made my the Chinese is that the US isn't blowing up satellites in orbit creating massive clouds of debris, on fucking purpose.

      The US has been in space for years, but at this rate the Chinese should be able to catch up to us in the "space junk race" in no time.

      --
      "linux is just DOS with a UNIX like syntax" -- Galactic Dominator (944134)
    4. Re:Will the debris be a problem? by swanzilla · · Score: 2, Funny

      You just "shot down" my joke.

    5. Re:Will the debris be a problem? by cunina · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Actually, the launch you're referring to was after the destruction of the Chinese weather satellite, and nearly all of the debris from the launch de-orbited soon after. Get your facts straight.

  4. God damn it, China! by kurokame · · Score: 3, Informative

    Didn't you make enough bloody space junk the first time? NEO pollution is becoming a serious issue, and this isn't helping anyone.

    1. Re:God damn it, China! by LWATCDR · · Score: 5, Informative

      Actually I believe that this test didn't contribute to that.
      It sounds as if the intercept was at sub orbital speeds. IE it was a missile interception test.
      Frankly this was miss titled big time.
      Not that it is a good thing but it may not be as bad as you think.

      --
      See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
  5. Another world record attempt by kamukwam · · Score: 3, Funny

    They always want to be the best in everything. Now it seems that the Chinese are trying to become the country with the most objects in earth orbit.

  6. Is there any way to clean out the LEO/NEO junk? by mlts · · Score: 2, Interesting

    With China trying to show off what it can do, what happens if they get enough fast moving junk in the orbit levels that it starts hitting other objects... which will promptly start speeding off in other directions, essentially causing a chain reason, tearing up anything in orbit at that level, eventually making an almost impenetrable barrier of fast moving stuff, blocking any chances at anything going into space for the next several hundreds years?

    Is there any way to slow the junk down so it hits atmosphere and burns up?

    1. Re:Is there any way to clean out the LEO/NEO junk? by Sir_Lewk · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The term for this sort of scenario is Kessler Syndrome, and if China keeps this up it might become a quite likely.

      --
      "linux is just DOS with a UNIX like syntax" -- Galactic Dominator (944134)
  7. GPS and communication satellites by Attila+Dimedici · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This is part of developing the technology to take out GPS and other communication satellites in case of a confrontation with the U.S.A. . Much of the U.S. war fighting capability is highly dependent on GPS and satellite based communication. The Chinese military is preparing to fight a war against the U.S. (this is completely independent of whether or not they are planning to fight such a war). The scary part of this is that even if current planners have no intention of ever fighting a war against the U.S. history has shown that when military and political leaders believe that they are in a position to win such a war they often choose to wage it even if a rational analysis says that it is a bad idea (see World War I).

    --
    The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
    1. Re:GPS and communication satellites by 0123456 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The scary part of this is that even if current planners have no intention of ever fighting a war against the U.S. history has shown that when military and political leaders believe that they are in a position to win such a war they often choose to wage it even if a rational analysis says that it is a bad idea (see World War I).

      The Germans would easily have captured France in WWI if they'd been rational; it was the irrational changes to their highly rational war plan that led to disaster on the Western Front. IMHO the Chinese military seem far more rational than the US military at this time... they have a clear idea of who their opponents are and they're developing the most effective methods of defeating them.

  8. NEO "pollution"? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    What absolute bunk. No doubt you are also a staunch believer in the hoax of global warming. There is absolutely NO credible evidence that the near earth space is "polluted". This is all just bullshit big government propaganda, no doubt intended to form the basis for future MASSIVE rises in taxation to pay for a "cleanup" (likely involving the disappearance of plane fulls of cash into union and left wing paramilitary group pockets).

    1. Re:NEO "pollution"? by c6gunner · · Score: 2, Interesting

      If you're looking at a global warming analogy, you'd probably be better to look at the numerous calls for 'global asteroid defence' against a threat which would almost certainly cost vastly less than the cost of trying to defend against it.

      Well, yeah, technically you're right - an asteroid causing the extinction of the human species would cost nothing at all, so the cost of trying to defend against it would certainly be vastly higher. Good thinking!

  9. Circular story by bsDaemon · · Score: 5, Funny

    The story, on a Chinese website (.cn domain) is reporting that the US is reporting that China shot down the satellite. I'm not sure how reliable any of this really is.

  10. The actual news in the article by quatin · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Apparently people have completely missed the point of this article. Space junk, yes it's a problem, but did no one grasp the importance that one nation is capable of SHOOTING DOWN SATELLITES?!?

    It's obviously aimed at countering US ballistic missile technology that we're selling to Taiwan. Perhaps not to intercept the missiles, but to destroy US GPS satellites so the US missiles won't track. This is just as important as ballistic missile interception program. There's going to be another arms race to have satellites that can "counter" incoming missiles and missiles that can counter the counter on the satellite.

    Lastly, can we please stop arming other countries. It always backfires and we end up getting shot by the same bullets we gave out.

    1. Re:The actual news in the article by glwtta · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Perhaps not to intercept the missiles, but to destroy US GPS satellites so the US missiles won't track.

      GPS satellites are at 20,000 km - if the Chinese could hit those, that would really be something!

      All the satellites shot down so far have been well under 1,000 km.

      --
      sic transit gloria mundi
  11. Who cares? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Honestly, the only people who benefit from this China-US military hype are the huge suppliers of military equipment. China and the US will never fight against each other. They are joined at the hip, about as much as California and, say, Idaho are. China needs the US, the US needs China. Stop buying into the paranoid, tinfoil-hat ladden, slashdot reactionary ultra-hyped bullshit that they're feeding you.

    Besides, the US can out-nuke them any day if they really needed to. :)

    1. Re:Who cares? by Big_Breaker · · Score: 2, Insightful

      China needs us to buy the exports that their billion+ underclass help manufacture. That keeps those workers busy and distracted from the fact that they are being exploited by the privileged classes and deprived of any say in their government. Stop the exporting and it is a short road to civil unrest.

      China needs us to buy their products in US dollars so that the government can stand in between every export transaction and the local Yuan based economy and thereby control everything. They also get to wield that pile of dollars as a political tool in furtherance of their goals.

      A non-exporting China with a freely exchangeable currency? That's a nightmare for the CCP. They would lose some of their favorite tools!

  12. Not surprising by WindBourne · · Score: 2, Interesting
    China says one thing, but does others. Quite honestly, the leadership there sees themselves in a cold war with the west, and are trying to take advantage of the west's not wanting to be in one.

    The problem is that China has a VERY active space weapons program and will not give it up. If you look closely at what they are working on, it should be obvious that it is not about defense, but about an offense. They are
    1. working on a ground based laser designed to take out western sats to try and stop GPS and communications.
    2. Working on interceptors designed to take out incoming missiles.
    3. Building nuke-powered Boomers/attack sub at a rate of 1-2 EACH.
    4. Getting ready to launch multiple space stations. The first one will allow civilians on-board, but the second on, are expected to be military only. There is ZERO need for a military to have a manned space station, EXCEPT as a way of hiding weapons as a prelude to an attack.

    Heck, even the agreement to get FTA and WTA required them to open their money in 2004, quit dumping, quit subsidizing, and drop trade barriers. Yet, they fixed their money against the dollar, they dump more than ever, subsidies have actually gone up (vs 1999), though trade barriers have shifted all around.

    China is positioning themselves for a hot war.

    --
    I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
    1. Re:Not surprising by kramulous · · Score: 2, Insightful

      What? And the US hasn't been giving the rest of the world the big 'FUCK YOU' for the last fifty years. Doing pretty much whatever they like.

      It's the same old shit for us. Just another country compensating by trying to show how powerful they are. Actually, it's kinda refreshing that there is another 'sustainable' player.

      --
      .
    2. Re:Not surprising by Nysul · · Score: 2, Insightful

      China can't get into any sort of extremely unprovoked unpopular war (such as one with the US) because it would be devastating to their economy. Most of the Americas and Europe would embargo them. It seems to me globalization is a good deterrent to a world war, in economic uncertainty most countries can't afford to give up 20% of anything. The only way it makes sense to me is if they were seriously provoked or they lost something of such great value that the economic ramifications would be worth it.

    3. Re:Not surprising by superdana · · Score: 4, Funny

      Building nuke-powered Boomers/attack sub at a rate of 1-2 EACH.

      Oh no! At that rate, they'll have more than fifty by next!

  13. we aren't too excited by aepervius · · Score: 2, Informative

    We aren't too excited, because the USA had this tech (destroying satellite) for some time. If anything it re-establish the BOP which is good thing for peace.

    --
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  14. You're kidding. Right? by WindBourne · · Score: 2, Insightful

    China is by far the heaviest polluter on the planet. Not only have they surpassed America in terms of CO2, but they surpassed America in ALL other forms of pollution around 2000. How? Because they have little to no pollution controls. And where they put it, as required by treaties, they regularly just turn them off due to the loss of efficiencies. Heck, if CHina's economy slows down to 5% as expected, then around 2019, they will have emitted 1/2 of ALL CO2 that has ever been emitted by man. And if they do not slow down, then around 2015, they will break that barrier. They currently account for just under 1/2 of mercury being emitted. etc. etc. etc.

    So, if they have ZERO interest in their own citizens, let alone those in India, Viet Nam, Koreas, Japan, Russia, etc., WHAT COULD MAKE YOU THINK THAT THEY GIVE A CRAP ABOUT SPACE?

    --
    I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.