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NASA Revamps Historic 4-Million-kg Mars Antenna

coondoggie writes NASA is working on some difficult renovations to reinvigorate its 70-meter-wide 'Mars antenna.' The antenna, a key cog in NASA's Deep Space Network, needs about $1.25M worth of what NASA calls major, delicate surgery. The revamp calls for lifting the antenna — about 4 million kilograms of finely tuned scientific instruments — to a height of about 5 millimeters so workers can replace the steel runner, walls and supporting grout."

66 comments

  1. In other news, Apple is happy. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Antenna problems are not specific to the iphone.

    1. Re:In other news, Apple is happy. by KarrdeSW · · Score: 1

      The revamp calls for lifting the antenna [...] to a height of about 5 millimeters

      They should really avoid holding it that way.

      Okay! I hadn't made used the joke yet! It can die now.

    2. Re:In other news, Apple is happy. by Monkeedude1212 · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      Man, that joke was so clever and insightful, did you RTFA to come up with it?

    3. Re:In other news, Apple is happy. by Flea+of+Pain · · Score: 5, Funny

      I hadn't made used the joke yet!.

      In Soviet Russia, joke hadn't made used YOU!

      --
      Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.
    4. Re:In other news, Apple is happy. by pgmrdlm · · Score: 1

      Use the Consumer Reports suggestion. Duct Tape.

      --
      Anonymous comments are as pathetic as the anonymous "sources" that contaminate gutless journalism from the New York Time
    5. Re:In other news, Apple is happy. by Peach+Rings · · Score: 2, Insightful

      That was a really stupid quote too:

      The ubiquitous antenna was all the buzz last week as Apple tried to squelch the latest glitch in its popular iPhone. But those antenna issues have nothing on the renovations NASA is taking on to reinvigorate its 70-meter-wide (230-foot-wide) "Mars antenna."

      X will get us better search rankings. But x has nothing to do with this story, which involves...

    6. Re:In other news, Apple is happy. by SnarfQuest · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      They should really avoid holding it that way.

      OK, try to think of something besides porn.... Nope, not gonna happen.

      --
      Who would win this election: Andrew Weiner vs Andrew Weiner's weiner.
    7. Re:In other news, Apple is happy. by mangu · · Score: 1

      X will get us better search rankings. But x has nothing to do with this story, which involves...

      Johnny had a tip that the science examination would have a question about penguins, so he memorized every little fact about them. Come the exam day, there was only one question: "write all you know about the Amazon region"

      Johnny wrote:
      "The Amazon is a region where there are no penguins, which are aquatic, flightless birds of the order Sphenisciformes, family Spheniscidae, ... etc, etc "

    8. Re:In other news, Apple is happy. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      haw haw haw. You lose 5 intarweb points for unoriginality.

    9. Re:In other news, Apple is happy. by Khyber · · Score: 0, Troll

      "Man, that joke was so clever and insightful, did you RTFA to come up with it?"

      No, it was plainly and clearly tattooed across your mother's wide-load ass.

      --
      Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
  2. houston, we have a solution by escay · · Score: 1

    need help repairing the antenna? This might help!

  3. iPhone by blhack · · Score: 2, Insightful

    What the hell does this have to do with the iPhone and its antenna?

    Dear Journalists,

    Referencing anything to do with the iPhone in an attempt to sound hip and relevant just makes you look stupid.

    Signed,
    Blhack

    --
    NewslilySocial News. No lolcats allowed.
    1. Re:iPhone by tom17 · · Score: 1

      It's a *four* million Kg antenna and it's the iPhone *four*.

  4. The Gordon Freeman Method by danbert8 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Might I suggest a crowbar. That's what I used for all my scientific research in Half Life. You could probably use one to lift the thing up a few millimeters.

    --
    Yes it's an anecdote! Were you expecting original research in a Slashdot comment?
    1. Re:The Gordon Freeman Method by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 1
  5. Just Goldstone is Being Worked On? by CheshireCatCO · · Score: 3, Insightful

    So they're only revamping one out of three of the 70-m DSN antennae? I hope that they plan to do Canberra and Madrid, too. You need all three of them to get good 24-hr coverage. Actually, we need more of them. There are just too many missions needing 70-m time to downlink data right now. And nothing was sadder than watching good observations (which were otherwise totally possible) get killed because some other mission had priority on the big dishes.

    1. Re:Just Goldstone is Being Worked On? by bruce_the_loon · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Maybe only this one is experiencing the problems with the bearing surface at this point.

      I agree we need more antennae for this work, especially with the increase in probes that NASA is supposed to be making.

      --
      Trying to become famous by taking photos. Visit my homepage please.
    2. Re:Just Goldstone is Being Worked On? by TooMuchToDo · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I think a better solution is to implement store and forward, and start having craft in orbit that can queue data from deep space craft. You can than downlink it at your leisure without worrying either about contention issues on the 70-meters or a gust of wind causing a bit of data to go missing.

    3. Re:Just Goldstone is Being Worked On? by TheRedDuke · · Score: 1

      Cost being a hot topic in the Space Race these days, one would have to ask: is it cheaper to build a relay to put in orbit, or to repair and/or build additional antennae on the ground for these purposes? Given how expenisve it is to service Hubble and the ISS (the shuttle costs $450m to launch, average payload is serveral thousand $ per lb), I suspect the latter would be cheaper.

    4. Re:Just Goldstone is Being Worked On? by TooMuchToDo · · Score: 1

      If you can piggyback on something you're sending up to the right orbit anyway, the cost can be somewhat competitive. Having more ground stations means more land in places that have to be friendly, labor, parts, etc.

    5. Re:Just Goldstone is Being Worked On? by CheshireCatCO · · Score: 1

      You're still paying the cost for the launch. To simply put something into orbit is around $10,000/kg. That's Earth orbit, getting it to Saturn is even more expensive. I'm pretty sure that you'd be lucky to do it for under a few tens of millions of dollars, probably more in the hundreds.

      Even if you did it, you still have to downlink the data to Earth at some point. And now you're still contending for the dishes. Yes, you can be more flexible as to when you downlink and you could even use a 35-m dish (which are more abundant), but they're still too few in number for the missions we fly/want to fly.

    6. Re:Just Goldstone is Being Worked On? by CheshireCatCO · · Score: 1

      Entirely possible, yep. It would have been nice if the story had commented, though.

    7. Re:Just Goldstone is Being Worked On? by TooMuchToDo · · Score: 1

      If that's the case, let's start building some dishes.

    8. Re:Just Goldstone is Being Worked On? by RocketRabbit · · Score: 1

      We're winding down the big fun space program for a while, so I would imagine a lot of really neat stuff is going to rust away.

      Hell, we are so pathetic that we will be riding bitch with the Ruskies into space for a while here.

    9. Re:Just Goldstone is Being Worked On? by apoc.famine · · Score: 1

      You fund placing a 70m antenna in space, and everyone will call you a hero.

      There is a reason the antenna needs to be that size, and there's a reason they are on earth...

      --
      Velociraptor = Distiraptor / Timeraptor
    10. Re:Just Goldstone is Being Worked On? by CheshireCatCO · · Score: 1

      There are currently no plans that I know of to scale back the unmanned space program. (The opposite, if anything.) So your sort of grousing in the wrong place.

    11. Re:Just Goldstone is Being Worked On? by DerekLyons · · Score: 1

      I think a better solution is to implement store and forward, and start having craft in orbit that can queue data from deep space craft.

      The problem is that the equipment required to receive and process the faint signals involved isn't trivial, neither is the antenna required. It would pretty much be beyond the current state-of-the-art.
       

      You can than downlink it at your leisure without worrying either about contention issues on the 70-meters or a gust of wind causing a bit of data to go missing.

      No, instead you'll worry about contention issues on the satellite, or a solar storm causing a bit of data to go missing, or the entire bird going dead and being beyond the reach of repair.

    12. Re:Just Goldstone is Being Worked On? by TooMuchToDo · · Score: 1
      Japan just successfully launched and deployed a solar sail satellite with the sail having a surface area of 650 sq. ft.

      http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2010/06/solar-sail-deployment/

      Hard? Yes. Impossible? No.

    13. Re:Just Goldstone is Being Worked On? by TooMuchToDo · · Score: 1
      Is the equipment significantly different than the radio gear on the TDRS satellite?

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tracking_and_Data_Relay_Satellite

      I can't imagine the gear is *that* much different than NASA's other in-space relay satellites, or even Iridium satellites for that matter (considering that they're not just dumb pipes).

    14. Re:Just Goldstone is Being Worked On? by TooMuchToDo · · Score: 1
      Forgot to include this from the wiki article:

      "Working solo, TDRS-1 provided more communication coverage, in support of the September 1983 Shuttle mission, than the entire network of NASA tracking stations had provided in all previous Shuttle missions."

      While not a rocket scientist, I do have an EE degree and have worked with quite a bit of radio equipment. I'm sure it would be possible for TDRS satellites to handle store and forward if it was thought about during the design phase.

    15. Re:Just Goldstone is Being Worked On? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh they have to remember that in Canberra & Madrid it's not 4 million kilograms, its 4,000 tonnes. Bit sick of the "big-numbers-of-pounds-to-make-it-sound-like-really-really-heavy" syndrome so please don't try it with the metric system, OK.

    16. Re:Just Goldstone is Being Worked On? by DerekLyons · · Score: 1

      Yes, it's considerably different - DSN is much more sensitive (because of the lower incoming signal strength), with considerably higher pointing accuracy and much more signal processing capability (to pick up said faint signals from the background noise). DSN also has far more transmitting power in order to ensure sufficient signal strength at the receiving end.

      Iridium and TDRS aren't dumb pipes, no. But they're not anywhere near the class or capability of the the DSN antennas either.

    17. Re:Just Goldstone is Being Worked On? by rrohbeck · · Score: 1

      Just don't break the other DSN dishes while Goldstone is being worked on...
      "What's going on??? Tracking station forty three, Canberra, come in, Canberra! Tracking station sixty three, can you hear me, Madrid? Can anybody hear me? Come in, come in!"

    18. Re:Just Goldstone is Being Worked On? by petermgreen · · Score: 1

      start having craft in orbit
      Craft in orbit where?

      If you mean craft in orbit arround earth the trouble is it's hard to put huge antennas in space. In general antenna gain is related to physical size and antenna gain is important for long distance work because (unlike amplifier gain) it makes the antenna pick up more signal without making it pick up more noise (assuming noise is equal in all directions)

      If you mean craft in orbit around the target planet then you still need to downlink the data to a big antennae on earth. You just may be able to be more flexible about when you do it.

      --
      note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register
    19. Re:Just Goldstone is Being Worked On? by j-b0y · · Score: 1

      Robledo (Madrid) was done a few years back - they had to replace the bearings IIRC. In fact it was largely due to the work on DSS63 at Robledo that NASA started to look at the DSS14.

      --
      Please remain calm, there is no reason to pani... wait, where are you all going?
    20. Re:Just Goldstone is Being Worked On? by lxs · · Score: 1

      Can't we simply call it 4 Gigagrams?

    21. Re:Just Goldstone is Being Worked On? by CheshireCatCO · · Score: 1

      A solar sail isn't an antenna. An antenna has to be much more rigid in order to accurately reflect the radio waves to the receiver. It's apples and oranges.

      In any case, you're talking about an 8-m sail, a far cry from a 70-m dish.

      And no one said it was impossible. But possible and smart are far from identical concepts.

    22. Re:Just Goldstone is Being Worked On? by TooMuchToDo · · Score: 1

      How about in orbit at a Lagrange point? Wide open view, and fairly stable, so less need for propellant for station keeping.

  6. We had to do this with a 7 million kg antenna by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    We had to go through this with a 7 million kilogram antenna at the Green Bank Telescope:

    http://www.gb.nrao.edu/gbt/track.shtml

    The original azimuth track wore down too quickly, apparently due to faulty materials, workmanship, etc. You can see photos of the scope rotating out of the way sections of the track could be replaced at a time.

    1. Re:We had to do this with a 7 million kg antenna by mbone · · Score: 2, Informative

      You use a track on the GBT, but the 70 meters use a large horizontal bearing. These are Apollo era antennae, old enough that they were originally pointed with a internal ha-dec antenna model as an analogue computer (as was the old 140 foot at Greenbank). They really need to be replaced.

  7. 4 million kilograms by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    4 million kilograms; why can't we just use metric as it was intended?

    4 Gigagrams.

    1. Re:4 million kilograms by lemur3 · · Score: 1

      what is with this metric stuff? This is NASA, right? 'million kilograms' 'meter-wide'?

      why didnt they just list the $1.25M cost in EUROS?

    2. Re:4 million kilograms by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      Ahem...

      _AC

    3. Re:4 million kilograms by confused+one · · Score: 1

      METRIC! How about a proper unit of measure: 2200 Olds Vista Cruisers.

    4. Re:4 million kilograms by Existential+Wombat · · Score: 2, Funny

      4 million kilograms; why can't we just use metric as it was intended?

      4 Gigagrams.

      4 nano hellagrams

    5. Re:4 million kilograms by plague911 · · Score: 3, Funny

      2 oprah winfreys?

    6. Re:4 million kilograms by melikamp · · Score: 1

      Base ten is so second millennium. Now it's all about 15625/4096 gibigrams.

    7. Re:4 million kilograms by hoskeri · · Score: 1

      1.5 Your Moms?

      --
      Even if you win the rat race, you are still a rat
    8. Re:4 million kilograms by necro81 · · Score: 1

      If one is using SI units, then it is appropriate to measure things in kilograms.

  8. 4 million kilograms? by tool462 · · Score: 0, Redundant

    Shouldn't that be 4 gigagrams?

  9. Wind by vlm · · Score: 1

    have carefully lifted several million pounds of delicate scientific instruments about five millimeters (0.2 inches) and transferred the weight of the antenna to temporary supporting legs.

    A crucial missing part of the summary. I was wondering how they prevented the thing from digging or otherwise tipping back due to the wind.

    --
    "Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
  10. Not the first time by mbone · · Score: 3, Informative

    This is not the first time that they have replaced the bearing on the 70 meter antennae. I believe that for DSS 14 (AKA Goldstone Mars) this would be the 3rd bearing change.

    These 70 meters are reaching their end of life, and almost certainly will be replaced with arrays of smaller (but still large) antenna within the decade.

    1. Re:Not the first time by chainman · · Score: 1

      I believe that the last time they lifted it clear of the bearing surface by 2 to 3 METERS!
      By the way, the others were built later with an improved az bearing.

  11. Happened where I work by mangu · · Score: 4, Informative

    I work at a commercial communications satellite company and we have an old earth station with a 32 meter antenna that's rarely used today, but we still keep it as a backup. Actually, the cost of bringing it down is more than the scrap value, so it's mostly just standing there.

    What nobody realized was that the antenna had been tracking a single geostationary satellite for decades, so it was moving very slightly around one position. Geostationary satellites aren't exactly stationary, but close, there's a slight movement around a central point.

    The result was that, when they tried to point the antenna to a different satellite they found that the circular steel rail had been cold-rolled over the years so each wheel was sitting in a small valley in the rail. The azimuth motor didn't have enough torque to get off that valley and point the antenna to a different position, although there was no problem in tracking a satellite in the old position.

    The solution was to jack up the whole antenna, cut off a section of rail and weld a new piece of rail beneath each wheel. The trickiest part was grinding the rail so that the new parts were perfectly aligned.

    1. Re:Happened where I work by mangu · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Just to mention another interesting detail, this earth station I mentioned has Wernher von Braun's signature in the visitor's book.

  12. On Mars by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Am I the only one that read this and thought that the antenna was ON Mars?

    1. Re:On Mars by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      yes.

  13. DTN is your answer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And, indeed, this is EXACTLY the direction we're heading at NASA. However, bear in mind that most satellites have very limited on board memory, and store and forward relay has really only been used since the MER missions. Before then, it was considered too risky.

    There are deep space missions that go places with no convenient relay satellite, also (e.g. Jupiter, Saturn, Pluto)

  14. bad reporting, where is the dish? by rokkaku · · Score: 1

    Why does Slashdot keep linking to this writer? I had to actually go to the NASA web site to determine that the dish was at Goldstone. How hard is it to write a complete story?

  15. Can't they just put a giant bumper around it? by m509272 · · Score: 1

    Ask Steve Jobs, they're pretending that's a real solution.

  16. Slashdot pizza party! by gjyoung · · Score: 1

    Everyone lift, swap it all out, bada bing bada boom and fuhgedaboutit!

  17. This is NASA we're talking about by PPH · · Score: 1

    Better stick to the FFF system or they'll get confused.

    That would make it about 100,000 firkins.

    --
    Have gnu, will travel.
  18. 4 million kilograms by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    No one says 4 million kilograms. It's 4000 tonnes.

  19. 5mm? by gravis777 · · Score: 1

    This is where I show my complete lack of understanding on this subject. They are lifting the antenna 5 milimeters? Who are they hiring to work on this, Smurfs and Fraggles? I don't see how raising an antenna by 5mm is going to give a human any significantly larger area to work with.

    1. Re:5mm? by holmstar · · Score: 1

      Then I guess that it is a good thing that they are the ones doing the work, and not you. Ever think that they could maybe do the work from the side, and all the really need in order to get started is to get the weight off of it? Think before you speak.