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Industrial Marijuana Farming Approved In Oakland
Trintech writes "According to MSNBC: 'The city of Oakland, California on Tuesday legalized large-scale marijuana cultivation for medical use and will issue up to four permits for "industrial" cultivation starting next year.
The move by the San Francisco Bay Area city aims to bring medical marijuana cultivation into the open and allow the city to profit by taxing those who grow it.
The resolution passed the city council easily after a nearly four-hour debate that pitted small-scale "garden" growers against advocates of a bigger, industrial system that would become a "Silicon Valley" of pot.' Yes, you read that right. MSNBC just compared computer chip fabrication to pot cultivation."
Who seriously thinks this isn't going to end with FBI agents with flamethrowers and some farmers going to jail forever?
According to MSNBC:
That's as far as I got...
Is it possible that in 2010, there's a sign that our society might actually be growing up a little bit? It's something small, but a good sign. I'm not a pot smoker, but the notion that there's been this prohibition on a harmless plant with medicinal and recreational uses is ridiculous. There are only a few things worse than a moralistic, hypocritical society. Saying that marijuana is evil, dangerous and should be illegal while tobacco and alcohol are huge industries with all the social and health problems they create is both moralistic and hypocritical. Worse, it's a hypocrisy fueled by the fact that so much money is involved - money that pays lobbyists who buy politicians.
There are reasonable arguments on both sides of the debate over the illegality of crystal meth, cocaine, and some other substances. These are drugs that have had ruinous effects on parts of our society. But the debate over marijuana should have been over 50 years ago.
Next up should be a re-thinking of the laws regarding pain medication, such as opiates and synthetics. Making their sale on the street illegal is one thing, but the fact that doctors are afraid to prescribe them, even in cases where they would be the best treatment for their patients is a shame. We've got this weird proscription against substances that could make us feel better, even for sick or terminal patients, that comes from a moralistic, Puritan streak that runs through this country. It's time to jettison that relic.
You are welcome on my lawn.
I'm all for legalizing pot, and I have zero issues with people who smoke marijuana. But with more and more legalization becoming a reality, I'm starting to wonder when places that do drug tests on employees will start to lighten up and quit testing for marijuana. I like to smoke now and again, but don't do it regularly because I don't want to fail a random test, and have laid off completely for weeks to get a job. I'm not a hardcore smoke so this isn't a huge deal to me, but it'd be nice to know I could be somewhere and toke legally AND definitely keep my job.
What this really concerns is big business shutting out small scale farmers. Only four farms are being allowed essentially shutting out small growers. That didn't take long. It's sad because small family farms could actually make a profit growing pot but there's simply too much profit involved to allow small farmers to be allowed to play. I wonder how much lobbying went into this decision?
In the US, as an individual, you have to get a "prescription" for it from your "doctor".
FTFY.
The ONLY reason they're doing this is because they believe they can get ahead of the curve when California legalizes marijuana. They want the tax revenue and nothing more. This is not about freedom or fighting for what's right.
Frankly the dominance of tax revenue in the discussion of legalization disgusts me.
3 months from now? You're acting like large-scale pot cultivation in northern California just started with this bill.
We all know that inhaling burning plant material creates by-products such as: tar, ash, CO2, carbon monoxide and other gases & carcinogenic elements, because so much time and money has been spent on proving this with tobacco. Nobody ever talks about the strain legalizing it would put on the health care system. Clearly it would contribute to some people getting cancer
clearly what?
and don't give me that bullshit you read on the inside of the Cypress Hill CD that there has never been a documented death from smoking marijuana.
So you have a citation, then?
I do realize that a casual marijuana smoker does smoke far less often than even a light cigarette smoker, but how many strait up potheads are there to the casual 1 gram or less a day smokers? 100 to 1?
Logical fallacy: misdirection. This is irrelevant.
Your guess is as good as mine, I just think if we are going to be realistic about this issue we should also be genuine with our intent to improve our quality of life.
Which is why you've chosen to spread FUD when in fact people have talked and are talking about the potential impact on the health system and finding that it would be positive. There can only be one reason why you would ignore the health benefits in the context of a conversation which is supposedly about the impact (or in your words, "strain") that it might put on the health care system, and that is that you are pushing an anti-cannabis agenda.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
No you didn't, prescriptions are federal and regulated by the DEA. Cannabis is Schedule-1 which means it has no known medical use and/or cannot be used safely under the supervision of a doctor. Doctors cannot write prescriptions for Cannabis any more than they can for LSD or heroin, no matter what state they practice in. In fact, if a doctor did write a prescription for Cannabis on their prescription form and the DEA found out they would lose their license to write any prescriptions at all. While license to practice is regulated by the state, it doesn't include license to write prescriptions. This is why many doctors are afraid to even recommend cannabis, even if permitted by the state they practice in, because they fear losing their license to write prescriptions which would end their practice.
Only six people legally use Cannabis under federal law as the program
was closed to new people in 1992.
I'm sorry but you simply had a recommendation from your doctor. A doctors note is not a prescription.
RAH had the idea. I am all for legalizing marijuana. Better a devil we can control and tax than the one which is fueling the cartels and violence in mexico and South America.
Of course you can get addicted to it. You can get addicted to anything. Maybe it has no chemical addiction but I've seen plenty of people who are addicted to pot and it screws them up just as much as alcoholism. Granted, I don't consider it any worse then alcohol or tobacco.. but if either of these things were discovered tomorrow do you think they'd have the same laws attached as they currently do? Tobacco would probably be outlawed completely. Personally I would like to see it legalised only in non smokable forms (or maybe non smokable forms outside a private residence), soley for the fact that I already have to deal with people smoking cigarettes blowing their smoke all over the place, I don't need to get high walking to work.
Hmm, but I smell the high smell of marijuana growing being handed over to licensed only agro-corporations and individuals will be fined for attempting to grow it themselves under penalties of tax evasion. Only four licensed operation, hmm, corporate drug cartels with government lobbied grossly inflated profit margins.
Still better than throwing away billions destroying peoples lives with militaristic raids and extended prison sentences in order to protect them from 'er' destroying the lives having a 'good time' getting high but not being dutiful mass consuming worker drones whilst doing it.
As long as they allow and provide grow your own permits, not for sale or distribution. This allows for a measure of product control, ensures simpler taxation management and means that those who can only afford to grow their own can continue to do so.
Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
Why not simply let it be sold like any other product? I really don't see what the difference is between tobacco/pot compared to corn, beans and other foodstuffs. Alcohol is slightly different because if you screw it up it can have toxic side effects but really when was the last time you heard of someone going to their local farmer's market to buy an ear of corn and it had toxic side effects? A plant is a plant is a plant. I similarly don't understand having different tax rates, unless the government goes around helping people grow something, it just needs a tiny sales tax.
Its completely stupid to tax something just because you don't like people doing it. Taxes should -only- reflect the 2 things a government should do, protect their citizens from force and fraud. If the government does something special to benefit someone/something they should be charged a higher rate, but its stupid to tax someone because you don't like it.
And for the record, no, I don't smoke tobacco or marijuana, I think its a terrible habit that stinks and is bad for the body. But thats just it, I can choose not to do that. I can choose not to smoke, I can choose not to drink, I can choose not to eat McDonalds daily, that is my choice. I choose what I want, other people can choose what they want, I don't force my choices on them and they don't on me. That is how freedom works. If I don't like tobacco smoke, I don't smoke, I don't go to places without a dedicated non-smoking seating. If a business wants to allow people to smoke, let them. If I don't want to eat there because of it, I will take my business elsewhere.
Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
The move to medicalize (is that a word?) marijuana will work against moves for industrial hemp. Cultivation will need to be taxed and controlled, just like alcohol. Part of the challenge for the government controllers is going to be that it's, well, a weed. Unlike tobacco, cultivation isn't confined to only a few special regions of land, and processing/curing isn't difficult either.
They're not going to want people growing hundreds of acres, even though growing operations of that scale would doubtless dilute the 'potency' anyway. It's just too easy for people to slip in a row or two of 'potent' weeds. It's too hard to control it and still allow cultivation on an industrial scale for fiber.
What we really need to figure out a use for is kudzu. Since that's pretty much all that we're going to be growing in whole regions before too long.
I think the words you are looking for are "chemically dependent". There is no measurable dependency, unlike tobacco.
Many forms of addiction are entirely psychological such as alcoholism and gambling addictions and this depends on the kind of person taking the drug (thus blanket bans are not productive). It's ignorant to say that there is no risk, just as it's ignorant to say that dope will make you crazy and kill your family. I agree with your sentiment that it should at the very least be decriminalised, if not legalised and treated the same as tobacco or alcohol but there are still risks from smoking marijuana the same as there are risks from drinking alcohol. But these are risks we as a society accept and in many cases control outside of controlling the drug (I.E. drinking and driving).
Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
I think this is a problem with the US Govt rather then the idea of medical marijuana growth. The tax for drugs should be on the sale of the drug itself not the cultivation. But the US Govt I think is not capable of differentiating between the marijuana plant and the use of marijuana as a narcotic.
Which really is a shame as there are variants of the plant with a THC content so low you'd have to smoke a square hectare to get high.
Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
Fibres from the marijuana plant produce a material stronger then cotton at a much lower cost to produce (faster growth time, higher yield per plant, able to withstand harsher environmental conditions) thus you have to oft quoted stoner conspiracy that the anti-weed movement was sponsored by America's cotton growers.
I haven't seen anyone refute this. I can imagine though that fighting the cotton growers would be about as successful as trying to kill the corn subsidies.
You can't grow good pot in a field of industrial hemp. Industrial hemp has a large percentage of males. The males pollinate the good pot and ruin it.
Actually one of the easiest ways to get rid of pot is to grow lots of low potency industrial hemp. The pollen can blow hundreds of miles and ruin all the good stuff. The only way to grow the good stuff is in heavily filtered spaces.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
...but I think the 'medical marijuana' movement is a farce. The net result is a bunch of stoner rejects inventing various chronic conditions in order to prove to the officials that they need marijuana to make their life tolerable. How embarrassing... how degrading.
I think its a fairly savvy political move. For some reason the feds (and some local fiefdoms) have an irrational fear of marijuana, and puritan like values are on the rise, so the odds of marijuana ever being legalized on its own merits is slim to none. A lot of the population is nebulously hostile to legalization for vague reasons, or completely apathetic. So the only real way to get the discussion started, and to start demystifying pot is to make it public, available, and outside of the purely hedonistic "some drugs are not evil" arena. Medical marijuana has done this very well.
I really don't think many people actually buy the "needing marijuana to make life tolerable" part of medical marijuana, as much as they view it as a way to eventually for the feds to fix their point of view. Medical marijuana is a gateway drug to legalized marijuana.
A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government. -edward abbey
Irony, asking for citation whilst providing no citation yourself. Here's Wikipedia, another citation there.
It's not exactly a secret that marijuana use results in a diminished reaction time and loss of motor control. This is the same with alcohol or most depressants for that matter. You can take a certain amount of alcohol or other drug and remain within the safe limits for reaction time (this amount depends on the individual) but with marijuana there tends to be less of a safe zone that exists with alcohol due to the rapid rate at which marijuana is consumed (1 bong can intoxicate an individual as much as 100 ml of hard liquor in one go, plus marijuana intoxication is much faster).
I'm all in favour of decriminalisation and in some cases legalisation but we cant lie to ourselves here, marijuana is an intoxicant that has serious effects on motor skills and reactions.
Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
The constitution is the supreme law of the land and until the supreme court changes their view on the commerce clause the federal government will have a legal right to enforce federal drug statutes. Do I like it, or even agree with their flawed logic? No, of course not. The overreaching interpretation of the commerce clause is probably one of the SC decisions that it most obviously far from the framers intentions.
There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
Yep. [ama-assn.org]
I stopped reading after "Marijuana use prior to injury was determined prospectively in 1023 patients injured as the result of vehicular (67.6%) and nonvehicular (32.4%) trauma.". Do you know why? Because those aren't "marijuana deaths" any more than me smoking a cigarette and jumping of a building is a "tobacco death". When people talk about "marijuana deaths" in this context they mean overdoses or causes of deaths otherwise directly attributable to marijuana use, not "he was an idiot, got high, drove off and died". All that tells us is that driving while drunk or high is a bad idea and should be avoided, doesn't tell us that being high in itself is a bad idea (but it is common knowledge through many many years of research and practical experience that alcohol really can kill you simply because you drank too much of it).
Greylisting is to SMTP as NAT is to IPv4
Kudzu is for feeding goats. If you can get Americans to eat goat meat, you'll wipe out kudzu in short order.
Put goat meat in American supermarkets and they'll eat it. Americans eat anything and they don't care what it is.
So you have a citation, then?
Yep.
You're talking about traffic deaths, we're talking about marijuana deaths. 85,000 people die every year in the USA alone directly due to consumption of alcohol, which is to say dying of alcohol poisoning or choking on vomit. Now, find a real citation, or admit that you're spreading FUD.
You are paranoid, I'm not against you sir. I push no agenda
You are indeed attempting to push an anti-marijuana agenda with a dearth of facts. Hit up your local dictionary if you don't believe me.
It is a miracle drug without a doubt. It is not a cure though.
Actually, there are indications that it not only reduces lung cancer risk, but also fights various other cancers. And cancer is one of those things that you don't really cure, you just fight off individual cancers or not. Even most people who die of something other than cancer have had cancer and beat it, often multiple times. It happens on a small scale all the time and you don't even notice.
Legal recreational use will create unforeseen problems, while perhaps minor, it will not result in world peace.
Now you're really attacking a straw man. Are you addicted to logical fallacy?
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
For some reason the feds (and some local fiefdoms) have an irrational fear of marijuana
Fear has nothing to do with it. Drug prohibition rakes billions of dollars through the business of government each year. Drug prohibition gives them the justification they need for continuous expansion of power and revenue. It sets precedents that can be leveraged in other sectors of government. There is an entire industry built around drug prohibition, and the architects were after one thing: money.
Imagine yourself an executive in the business of government, and do the math.
It is kind of a chicken and egg sort of problem. I mean, goat meat is out there, but its rare. I can find ground lamb too, but, its not something alot of people cook with, so not every store bothers, and not all the time. Ground beef? I can buy any day at any store.
People buy what they are used to, and what they know how to cook. You need to get it out there for people to get used to it to create a market for it. Of course, whats the incentive for any individual to get it out there and take initial losses hoping that enough people start cooking with it to make it viable? Even if the payoff for all of us is big in the medium to long term, its hard to find enough individuals (especially without organizing them around a cause) that will be willing to take that short term loss when they can't expect to see the long term gain themselves (to the grocer selling beef vs goat isn't a big difference as long as it sells)
-Steve
"I opened my eyes, and everything went dark again"
I'm weary and I just ain't got the time, and I'm wasted and I can't find my way home.
To hell with medical pot, when is it going to be legal for all adults? It's one of the safest psychoactive drugs there is. There is no lethal dose, there is no physical addiction (as opposed to coffee, alcohol, or tobacco), and actually prevents cancer. If you smoke cigarettes, you really should be smoking pot as well.
The laws against it cause all the problems it purports to solve, just as alcohol prohibition did. Teenagers shouldn't smoke pot, but unlike beer, it's easier for a teen to obtain than it is for an adult. Like alcohol prohibition, it allows adulterants to be added whether on purpose or accident; you cannot regulate an illegal substance. Its prohibition finances violent gangs. Marijuana doesn't "lead to harder drugs", but its prohibition does, since the people who sell heroin and cocaine also sell marijuana. Rather than wasting tax dollars jailing dopers, it could be taxed itself.
There is no reason whatever for this plant to be against the law. The only people who the pot laws help are those who grow, import, and sell it. Anyone who is for pot being against the law is being duped or bribed by the drug cartels.
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