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Major Flaws Found In Recent BitTorrent Study

Caledfwlch writes with a followup to news we discussed a couple days ago about a study that found only 0.3% of torrents to be legal. (A further 11% was described as "ambiguous.") TorrentFreak looked more deeply into the study and found a number of flaws, suggesting that the researchers' data may have been pulled from a bogus tracker. Quoting: "Here's where the researchers make total fools out of themselves. In their answer to the question they refer to a table of the top 10 most seeded torrents. ... the most seeded file was uploaded nearly two years ago (The Incredible Hulk) and has a massive 1,112,628 seeders. The torrent in 10th place is not doing bad either with 277,043 seeds. All false data. We're not sure where these numbers originate from but the best seeded torrent at the moment only has 13,739 seeders; that's 1% of what the study reports. Also, the fact that the release is nearly two years old should have sounded some alarm bells. It appears that the researchers have pulled data from a bogus tracker, and it wouldn't be a big surprise if all the torrents in their top 10 are actually fake." They also take a cursory look at isoHunt, finding that 1.5% of torrent files come from Jamendo alone, "a site that publishes only Creative Commons licensed music."

27 of 167 comments (clear)

  1. Honestly... by Theoboley · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Does this really surprise anyone?

    --
    Stupidity only gets you so far, then you've gotta try
    1. Re:Honestly... by jgagnon · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It probably surprises the people that thought they could get away with presenting bogus data. ;)

      --
      Remember to maintain your supply of /facepalm oil to prevent chafing.
    2. Re:Honestly... by Monkeedude1212 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Problem is, most people who visit this site already know what this article is stating. They knew the study was bogus from the start because they are more in tune with torrents than the people doing the study. The issue arises when the "Recent Study" slamming torrents makes the 6:00 news and it makes a nice segway into how to combat piracy - however this article, showing that the data was incorrect and that they are either embellishing or straight up lieing, will get no mention on mainstream media whatsoever. The people who need to see this news won't see it, and the people who see this news already know. More tragic than ironic.

    3. Re:Honestly... by Peach+Rings · · Score: 3, Insightful

      And you didn't catch segue?

    4. Re:Honestly... by Peach+Rings · · Score: 5, Informative

      The report gave the percentage of legal torrents as so low that some CC music site alone exceeds their entire sum of legal torrents on the entire internet. That doesn't mean that really only 98% of torrents are illegal, that means that their dataset is ludicrously inaccurate and the entire study is completely invalidated.

      Who modded this interesting?

    5. Re:Honestly... by CarpetShark · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Does this really surprise anyone?

      No, because most tech people instinctually know that filesharing is ethically right, and the rest don't care for facts either way.

    6. Re:Honestly... by mwvdlee · · Score: 3, Insightful

      If the top 10 files were fake, they were not illegal. So by far most of the popular torrents are legal?

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    7. Re:Honestly... by ldobehardcore · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Haha, Man, how do you measure whether a Torrent is "Legal" anyway? The torrent itself carries no copyrighted data period. The transfer between peers is illegal. It's not illegal to make a hash of copyrighted data, It's not Illegal in many countries to torrent either.

      --
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    8. Re:Honestly... by mwvdlee · · Score: 3, Informative

      For every torrent with a 1,000 seeds, there are 10 fake ones with 10,000 seeds each. Since fakes don't contain copyrighted information, they are not illegal. So for every 1,000 illegal seeds, there are 100,000 legal ones. Therefore less than 1% of torrent seeds is illegal. ;)

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    9. Re:Honestly... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      No surprise here, Theoboley

      In fact for the last few years I've questioned that glaring absess on the face of science " the study".
      ( anon cow costume on for karma protection from the guilty, misled, clueless and those incapable of unbiased view due to vocation, religion or dementia)
      Let's face it, a study is different than full blown research. Oddly enough though an article on a "study" will send the public off in dizzying new directions, convinced that physics has new rules, Bioscience has the cure for "fill in the blank", the sky is falling, the oceans are rising, red is better than blue and they all need more vitamin enriched, extra fiber, diet soda.
                  Studies are done for specific reasons:
      1.Industry (who can afford research) need some actual numbers to proceed throwing research dollars around.(dipping in the toe to test the waters)

      2. Special interests (who can also afford research but will stop with a study if it gets their goal , usually PR, accomplished. Could be industry, politics, social causes or religions) When you have money you can pay for a study to get actual data or pay for a study that finds what you want it to find in order to accomplish your ends.

      3. Education (Believe it or not colleges have an interest in running some numbers for both the benefit of the institution and the students) Hey someones gotta get those zombies from the lecture into laboratories and research. Besides funding from Greenpeace, the DNC, the military,
      the Beef Council, Shell Oil and others sure are making my dept. lush. I keep bringin them in and tenure smenure, I will never have to work again.

      Now I am not here to name names, it happens, you know it, I know it, corruption happens.The very thing never taken into account when backing a politician with a vote, supporting the local police or reading a STUDY.
      I also won't say all studies are just bogus science for the purpose of giving newsclowns something to spin and extend their vocation a bit longer.
      Studies also have legitimate uses, duh, because sometimes you want to dip your toe in or just find a sample of data for use. I would bet that most studies are legitimate. It's the ones that aren't to look out for. Which ones are they? Who knows? I would bet though that a majority of them are being shoved at an unsuspecting public to educate and guide them for whatever purpose they facilitate. I guess that means that the studies you readily see all around you are probably just horseshit like the general news spun at the public for the purpose it facilitates.

      If you are truly upset and not amused by the time you read this, I would say you are probably part of the problem.

  2. The best-seeded torrents... by Tenek · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Every few months when a WoW patch comes out and millions of computers torrent a few hundred MB. Hulk's got nothing on Night Elves.

    1. Re:The best-seeded torrents... by jgagnon · · Score: 5, Funny

      The patch that removes clothing completely from that game will bring the entire Internet to a standstill.

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  3. Imagine that by TheSpoom · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Industry group ending in 'AA' pays to have study conducted that supports their views, doesn't care so much about accuracy.

    News at eleven.

    --
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    1. Re:Imagine that by commodoresloat · · Score: 5, Funny

      News at eleven.

      I've got plans tonight and won't be home to catch the news at 11. Can someone upload a torrent for me?

  4. Moral Of The Story by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

    Moral of the story.... don't trust seedy research.

    1. Re:Moral Of The Story by Nadaka · · Score: 5, Funny

      Seedy research can plant misinformation.

  5. Old content is interesting... by CajunArson · · Score: 4, Insightful

    One major problem with Bit Torrent is that you only get easy access to what is "popular" at any given time. I've gotten some TV show episodes (not available in the US) downloaded in a reasonable amount of time when I start the download within 24 hours of the original show being aired... but try to get the same episode 30 days later and availability drops in a hurry. Despite all the pro-P2P propaganda about how it "democratizes" data, it's really more a mob-rule popularity contest for grabbing the shiniest download.

    --
    AntiFA: An abbreviation for Anti First Amendment.
    1. Re:Old content is interesting... by MindlessAutomata · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Get on a better site.

    2. Re:Old content is interesting... by JustinRLynn · · Score: 4, Insightful

      That's the thing about pure democracy, it is essentially the tyranny of the majority. This means that as a necessary consequence of a purely democratic download system only the most popular is the easiest to download. It's very similar to a free market, in that respect, in that it is exceedingly easy to get say, captain crunch cereal, versus something rarer, like say, unbleached nightshade flower. In a system where nothing is limited you can get anything you want, but it doesn't go hand-in-hand with being able to get whatever you want easily.

    3. Re:Old content is interesting... by urdak · · Score: 3, Informative

      This is actually not true. I've often been downloading TV series and movies from the 60's, 70's and 80's, things I would never see on today's Television channels but bittorrent allows me to watch. Think of any tv show you liked as a child (or your father liked as a child), be it Star Trek (the original series), Little House on the Prairie or whatever - and you can watch it on bittorrent.

    4. Re:Old content is interesting... by camperdave · · Score: 4, Funny

      It doesn't matter. There will only be two people seeding Mork and Mindy, no matter which tracker you use.

      --
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    5. Re:Old content is interesting... by Peach+Rings · · Score: 5, Informative

      Two peoples private machines sitting there serving only you unpopular content for free out of good will isn't enough for you? 2 seeders is plenty, especially with hard-to-find content.

  6. Torrents can be both legal and illegal at once by Dalzhim · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Some country's laws may flag a torrent as illegal while other countries consider it as legal.
    As an example, someone could be downloading a copyrighted song for backup purposes while owning a legitimate copy and these fools will automatically classify this kind of download an infringement.

    1. Re:Torrents can be both legal and illegal at once by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I've got a large number of scratched CD's that I've downloaded replacement MP3's for. When I was younger I was stupid with CD handling and also loaned them out only to get them back with scratches. One day I may get around to converting all my CD's to MP3's but it's gonna take a long time to get them all.

  7. Response from the researchers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

    Ars technica has actually asked the researchers about the issue. Here is the response from Paul Watters, one of the researchers:

    Thank you for your enquiry regarding our research report "Investigation into the extent of infringing content on BitTorrent networks". As researchers, we not only stand by the findings that we have arrived at, but - having made our methodology public - we are providing other bona fide researchers to replicate and/or dispute our findings. Their results can in turn be assessed through the peer review process; this is the process that normal research activity takes.

            You have raised some interesting points that are fundamental to the validitiy of any study in this area: the sampling strategy; verification of results and so on. We believe that our methodology was rigorously applied to the sample that we obtained. Over time, we will replicate the sampling process, so that we will gain better estimates of the population results. This is the fundamental tenet of statistical sampling.

  8. Re:TorrentFreak? Really? Consider the source. by ernesto99 · · Score: 4, Informative

    Ernesto here from TorrentFreak. I do have an academic background and used to teach statistics and research methods to (PhD) students. Not that it matters much, the comments I've made are pretty straightforward.

  9. Re:TorrentFreak? Really? Consider the source. by Xtifr · · Score: 3, Insightful

    We are supposed to believe the analysis of a biased entity over professional researchers?

    When the professional researchers conclude that "Music, movies and TV shows constituted the three largest categories of shared materials, and among those, zero legal files were found", we have to conclude that they didn't do a very good job, because there are at least two sites (Jamendo and Etree) which allow nothing but legal music files, and both have tracked the exchange of many petabytes of data. (There are many more sites which limit themselves to legal material, but not to music--or TV or movies.)

    If I were to do an analysis of FTP, and then deliberately limited my study to "pirate" sites, I would come up with a hopelessly biased sample and useless numbers. It may well be that the legal torrent sites are statistically insignificant, but if they didn't study them, how can they conclude that? Assuming that they are is basically assuming your conclusion. It begs the question.

    I agree with your assessment of TorrentFreak, but a lack of credentials and credibility in a critic does not make a study legitimate.