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Major Flaws Found In Recent BitTorrent Study

Caledfwlch writes with a followup to news we discussed a couple days ago about a study that found only 0.3% of torrents to be legal. (A further 11% was described as "ambiguous.") TorrentFreak looked more deeply into the study and found a number of flaws, suggesting that the researchers' data may have been pulled from a bogus tracker. Quoting: "Here's where the researchers make total fools out of themselves. In their answer to the question they refer to a table of the top 10 most seeded torrents. ... the most seeded file was uploaded nearly two years ago (The Incredible Hulk) and has a massive 1,112,628 seeders. The torrent in 10th place is not doing bad either with 277,043 seeds. All false data. We're not sure where these numbers originate from but the best seeded torrent at the moment only has 13,739 seeders; that's 1% of what the study reports. Also, the fact that the release is nearly two years old should have sounded some alarm bells. It appears that the researchers have pulled data from a bogus tracker, and it wouldn't be a big surprise if all the torrents in their top 10 are actually fake." They also take a cursory look at isoHunt, finding that 1.5% of torrent files come from Jamendo alone, "a site that publishes only Creative Commons licensed music."

45 of 167 comments (clear)

  1. Honestly... by Theoboley · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Does this really surprise anyone?

    --
    Stupidity only gets you so far, then you've gotta try
    1. Re:Honestly... by jgagnon · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It probably surprises the people that thought they could get away with presenting bogus data. ;)

      --
      Remember to maintain your supply of /facepalm oil to prevent chafing.
    2. Re:Honestly... by Monkeedude1212 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Problem is, most people who visit this site already know what this article is stating. They knew the study was bogus from the start because they are more in tune with torrents than the people doing the study. The issue arises when the "Recent Study" slamming torrents makes the 6:00 news and it makes a nice segway into how to combat piracy - however this article, showing that the data was incorrect and that they are either embellishing or straight up lieing, will get no mention on mainstream media whatsoever. The people who need to see this news won't see it, and the people who see this news already know. More tragic than ironic.

    3. Re:Honestly... by jgagnon · · Score: 2, Funny

      That's God damn it, God damn it! :p

      --
      Remember to maintain your supply of /facepalm oil to prevent chafing.
    4. Re:Honestly... by Peach+Rings · · Score: 3, Insightful

      And you didn't catch segue?

    5. Re:Honestly... by Peach+Rings · · Score: 5, Informative

      The report gave the percentage of legal torrents as so low that some CC music site alone exceeds their entire sum of legal torrents on the entire internet. That doesn't mean that really only 98% of torrents are illegal, that means that their dataset is ludicrously inaccurate and the entire study is completely invalidated.

      Who modded this interesting?

    6. Re:Honestly... by c6gunner · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The thing that surprises me is that - given the facts which your already pointed out - someone would actually bother to fake the data. I always figured that 90%+ of torrents were illegal, so why would anyone conduct a fraudulent study and run the risk of being exposed, just so they could get a few extra percentage points? It makes me question my basic premise - maybe there ARE more legitimate torrents than I'm aware of.

    7. Re:Honestly... by CarpetShark · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Does this really surprise anyone?

      No, because most tech people instinctually know that filesharing is ethically right, and the rest don't care for facts either way.

    8. Re:Honestly... by mwvdlee · · Score: 3, Insightful

      If the top 10 files were fake, they were not illegal. So by far most of the popular torrents are legal?

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    9. Re:Honestly... by ldobehardcore · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Haha, Man, how do you measure whether a Torrent is "Legal" anyway? The torrent itself carries no copyrighted data period. The transfer between peers is illegal. It's not illegal to make a hash of copyrighted data, It's not Illegal in many countries to torrent either.

      --
      Hectice, baby, Mercator says hello to you
    10. Re:Honestly... by mwvdlee · · Score: 3, Informative

      For every torrent with a 1,000 seeds, there are 10 fake ones with 10,000 seeds each. Since fakes don't contain copyrighted information, they are not illegal. So for every 1,000 illegal seeds, there are 100,000 legal ones. Therefore less than 1% of torrent seeds is illegal. ;)

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      Slashdot social media options: AIM, ICQ, Yahoo, Jabber and Mobile Text. Why no MySpace?
    11. Re:Honestly... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      No surprise here, Theoboley

      In fact for the last few years I've questioned that glaring absess on the face of science " the study".
      ( anon cow costume on for karma protection from the guilty, misled, clueless and those incapable of unbiased view due to vocation, religion or dementia)
      Let's face it, a study is different than full blown research. Oddly enough though an article on a "study" will send the public off in dizzying new directions, convinced that physics has new rules, Bioscience has the cure for "fill in the blank", the sky is falling, the oceans are rising, red is better than blue and they all need more vitamin enriched, extra fiber, diet soda.
                  Studies are done for specific reasons:
      1.Industry (who can afford research) need some actual numbers to proceed throwing research dollars around.(dipping in the toe to test the waters)

      2. Special interests (who can also afford research but will stop with a study if it gets their goal , usually PR, accomplished. Could be industry, politics, social causes or religions) When you have money you can pay for a study to get actual data or pay for a study that finds what you want it to find in order to accomplish your ends.

      3. Education (Believe it or not colleges have an interest in running some numbers for both the benefit of the institution and the students) Hey someones gotta get those zombies from the lecture into laboratories and research. Besides funding from Greenpeace, the DNC, the military,
      the Beef Council, Shell Oil and others sure are making my dept. lush. I keep bringin them in and tenure smenure, I will never have to work again.

      Now I am not here to name names, it happens, you know it, I know it, corruption happens.The very thing never taken into account when backing a politician with a vote, supporting the local police or reading a STUDY.
      I also won't say all studies are just bogus science for the purpose of giving newsclowns something to spin and extend their vocation a bit longer.
      Studies also have legitimate uses, duh, because sometimes you want to dip your toe in or just find a sample of data for use. I would bet that most studies are legitimate. It's the ones that aren't to look out for. Which ones are they? Who knows? I would bet though that a majority of them are being shoved at an unsuspecting public to educate and guide them for whatever purpose they facilitate. I guess that means that the studies you readily see all around you are probably just horseshit like the general news spun at the public for the purpose it facilitates.

      If you are truly upset and not amused by the time you read this, I would say you are probably part of the problem.

    12. Re:Honestly... by petermgreen · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It's a difficult sort of study to do properly for a few reasons so unless there is strong evidence otherwise (e.g. funding from big media) I'd expect this was simply a case of incompetance.

      Reasons why it's a difficult sort of study

      1: If you actually download the files to investigate them then you are getting into legally dodgy ground. If you want to download at more than a trickle you will have to upload too which puts you in an even worse position legally.
      2: Afaict most legal torrents use their own trackers rather than public ones, so they won't show up in a search that focuses on the big puplic trackers.
      3: Afaict big media are trying to deliberately fill P2P systems including bittorrent with fake crap as part of their war on the pirates.

      --
      note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register
    13. Re:Honestly... by Thinboy00 · · Score: 2

      That "pointless" pedantry may yet work in The Pirate Bay trial.

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      $ make available
    14. Re:Honestly... by dumbunny · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Probably not. They probably got paid whether the misinformation eventually gets called out or not. I'm sure they are quite happy with the mileage they got out of their "study."

    15. Re:Honestly... by Thinboy00 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It means they supposedly couldn't figure out the copyright status of the torrents in question. TPB hosts legal and illegal stuff, so it might plausibly be hard to tell. You still need preponderance of the evidence to go after someone for copyright infringement.

      --
      $ make available
    16. Re:Honestly... by aunt+edna · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Segway - 2-wheeled self-balancing electric vehicle.

      Segue - smooth transition to another topic.

      Sheesh -- exclamation of disapproving disbelief, usually low-volume.

  2. The best-seeded torrents... by Tenek · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Every few months when a WoW patch comes out and millions of computers torrent a few hundred MB. Hulk's got nothing on Night Elves.

    1. Re:The best-seeded torrents... by jgagnon · · Score: 5, Funny

      The patch that removes clothing completely from that game will bring the entire Internet to a standstill.

      --
      Remember to maintain your supply of /facepalm oil to prevent chafing.
  3. Imagine that by TheSpoom · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Industry group ending in 'AA' pays to have study conducted that supports their views, doesn't care so much about accuracy.

    News at eleven.

    --
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    1. Re:Imagine that by commodoresloat · · Score: 5, Funny

      News at eleven.

      I've got plans tonight and won't be home to catch the news at 11. Can someone upload a torrent for me?

  4. Moral Of The Story by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

    Moral of the story.... don't trust seedy research.

    1. Re:Moral Of The Story by Nadaka · · Score: 5, Funny

      Seedy research can plant misinformation.

    2. Re:Moral Of The Story by selven · · Score: 2, Funny

      But seedy research downloads more quickly!

  5. Old content is interesting... by CajunArson · · Score: 4, Insightful

    One major problem with Bit Torrent is that you only get easy access to what is "popular" at any given time. I've gotten some TV show episodes (not available in the US) downloaded in a reasonable amount of time when I start the download within 24 hours of the original show being aired... but try to get the same episode 30 days later and availability drops in a hurry. Despite all the pro-P2P propaganda about how it "democratizes" data, it's really more a mob-rule popularity contest for grabbing the shiniest download.

    --
    AntiFA: An abbreviation for Anti First Amendment.
    1. Re:Old content is interesting... by MindlessAutomata · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Get on a better site.

    2. Re:Old content is interesting... by JustinRLynn · · Score: 4, Insightful

      That's the thing about pure democracy, it is essentially the tyranny of the majority. This means that as a necessary consequence of a purely democratic download system only the most popular is the easiest to download. It's very similar to a free market, in that respect, in that it is exceedingly easy to get say, captain crunch cereal, versus something rarer, like say, unbleached nightshade flower. In a system where nothing is limited you can get anything you want, but it doesn't go hand-in-hand with being able to get whatever you want easily.

    3. Re:Old content is interesting... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      ...really more a mob-rule popularity contest for grabbing the shiniest download.

      Right. What they said. It democratizes data. The data with the most popular support has the most popular support.

      That means that data people no longer cares about gets lost to time. Of course, it only takes one person out there to keep that data alive. It may be slow, a little harder to find, and the connection to it may be less robust, but it's still there.

      It also means if you get a community of people who don't want to see old TV and movies die, then everyone only has to host one or two shows and everything is available (with maybe a short wait...kinda like Netflix). And all it takes is a few megabytes of hard drive space and a not-unreasonably slow internet connection and you are now a contributor of equal status to everyone else, which I think is what they really mean by democratizing data. You don't have to have the bandwidth/storage infrastructure of RapidShare to ensure that the data you want to be available to the world is available to the world.

    4. Re:Old content is interesting... by urdak · · Score: 3, Informative

      This is actually not true. I've often been downloading TV series and movies from the 60's, 70's and 80's, things I would never see on today's Television channels but bittorrent allows me to watch. Think of any tv show you liked as a child (or your father liked as a child), be it Star Trek (the original series), Little House on the Prairie or whatever - and you can watch it on bittorrent.

    5. Re:Old content is interesting... by camperdave · · Score: 4, Funny

      It doesn't matter. There will only be two people seeding Mork and Mindy, no matter which tracker you use.

      --
      When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
    6. Re:Old content is interesting... by Peach+Rings · · Score: 5, Informative

      Two peoples private machines sitting there serving only you unpopular content for free out of good will isn't enough for you? 2 seeders is plenty, especially with hard-to-find content.

    7. Re:Old content is interesting... by Gadget_Guy · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Despite all the pro-P2P propaganda about how it "democratizes" data, it's really more a mob-rule popularity contest for grabbing the shiniest download.

      Isn't mob rule exactly what democracy is all about? If there is little interest in a download then there will be fewer people seeding it. How else did you think democracy would work?

  6. any1 else smell the stench of MPAA on this? by arbiter1 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I smell stench of MPAA's money involved in this. inflate the numbers to make things look worse for them just like the riaa does

  7. Torrents can be both legal and illegal at once by Dalzhim · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Some country's laws may flag a torrent as illegal while other countries consider it as legal.
    As an example, someone could be downloading a copyrighted song for backup purposes while owning a legitimate copy and these fools will automatically classify this kind of download an infringement.

    1. Re:Torrents can be both legal and illegal at once by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I've got a large number of scratched CD's that I've downloaded replacement MP3's for. When I was younger I was stupid with CD handling and also loaned them out only to get them back with scratches. One day I may get around to converting all my CD's to MP3's but it's gonna take a long time to get them all.

    2. Re:Torrents can be both legal and illegal at once by Reziac · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Been doing the same with my old vinyl, as being a lot less trouble than acquiring the hardware to rip it myself (tho sometimes they're damned hard to find). The end result is the same -- I have MP3s of vinyl that I've already paid money for.

      --
      ~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
    3. Re:Torrents can be both legal and illegal at once by PrecambrianRabbit · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I had the inverse of your problem - I've got the physical CD for Diablo, but the CD key is nowhere to be found. Was it in the original box or manual? Maybe it's at my parents' house (if it wasn't thrown out years ago)?

      I used a CD key from a list I found on the net. I don't think it's fair to have to buy the game again because I lost a stupid piece of paper. DRM sucks :-(.

    4. Re:Torrents can be both legal and illegal at once by mqduck · · Score: 2, Interesting

      This goes for games, too. I've used BitTorrent to download another copy of lots of games I payed for long ago.

      Another factor to consider is that a pirate isn't necessarily concerned with backing up what they've downloaded. I know I've downloaded some games numerous times because I don't really worry about backups anymore if I don't have the original copy. Therefor, the number of times a torrent has been downloaded may give an inflated estimate of the number of pirates.

      --
      Property is theft.
  8. Re:TorrentFreak? Really? Consider the source. by Nadaka · · Score: 2, Informative

    Blizzard uses torrents to distribute WOW patches.

    Ubuntu, Eclipse, MySql, and more use torrents for the distribution of open source software.

    For any widespread distribution of large files, bandwidth can become quite costly. Torrents are just about the best solution to reducing those costs.

  9. Response from the researchers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

    Ars technica has actually asked the researchers about the issue. Here is the response from Paul Watters, one of the researchers:

    Thank you for your enquiry regarding our research report "Investigation into the extent of infringing content on BitTorrent networks". As researchers, we not only stand by the findings that we have arrived at, but - having made our methodology public - we are providing other bona fide researchers to replicate and/or dispute our findings. Their results can in turn be assessed through the peer review process; this is the process that normal research activity takes.

            You have raised some interesting points that are fundamental to the validitiy of any study in this area: the sampling strategy; verification of results and so on. We believe that our methodology was rigorously applied to the sample that we obtained. Over time, we will replicate the sampling process, so that we will gain better estimates of the population results. This is the fundamental tenet of statistical sampling.

    1. Re:Response from the researchers by ernesto99 · · Score: 2, Informative

      I (TorrentFreak) got the same response, they're simply ignoring the criticism and questions that I've asked. If they want to stand by bogus data that's their choice.

  10. Re:TorrentFreak? Really? Consider the source. by ernesto99 · · Score: 4, Informative

    Ernesto here from TorrentFreak. I do have an academic background and used to teach statistics and research methods to (PhD) students. Not that it matters much, the comments I've made are pretty straightforward.

  11. Re:TorrentFreak? Really? Consider the source. by Xtifr · · Score: 3, Insightful

    We are supposed to believe the analysis of a biased entity over professional researchers?

    When the professional researchers conclude that "Music, movies and TV shows constituted the three largest categories of shared materials, and among those, zero legal files were found", we have to conclude that they didn't do a very good job, because there are at least two sites (Jamendo and Etree) which allow nothing but legal music files, and both have tracked the exchange of many petabytes of data. (There are many more sites which limit themselves to legal material, but not to music--or TV or movies.)

    If I were to do an analysis of FTP, and then deliberately limited my study to "pirate" sites, I would come up with a hopelessly biased sample and useless numbers. It may well be that the legal torrent sites are statistically insignificant, but if they didn't study them, how can they conclude that? Assuming that they are is basically assuming your conclusion. It begs the question.

    I agree with your assessment of TorrentFreak, but a lack of credentials and credibility in a critic does not make a study legitimate.

  12. Re:TorrentFreak? Really? Consider the source. by Ghostgate · · Score: 2, Interesting

    They checked sites which could contain infringing data. You suggest that check sites where they are guaranteed not to find infringing data. Which is data set is going to be more biased?

    That would be fine if they framed it as follows: "Although numerous sites exist for the legitimate exchange of legal software and other data via torrents, sites which allow the option of both infringing and non-infringing data are much more likely to contain infringing data."

    Here's how it is framed instead: "Only 0.3% of torrents are legal."

  13. So what? by frozentier · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I'm honestly not trying to troll of flamebait, but what difference does the "study" make whether it's correct or not? Those who use torrents are going to use them, those who don't will continue not to, and those who think torrent sites are the root of all evil will continue to think THAT way, too. If the amount of illegal activity is 10%, 50%, or 95%, authorities aren't going to lower their guns as long as there is ANY illegal activity.