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UK Switches Off £235M Child Database

wdef writes "The UK's controversial ContactPoint database has actually been switched off! It's rare that we hear anything this sensible from government about an expensive, privacy-destroying, 'think of the children' solution: 'The government argued the system was disproportionate to the problem, so is looking at developing other solutions.' Perhaps the UK coalition government really is winding back Big Brother, as they had promised to do? Does seem unlikely."

21 of 198 comments (clear)

  1. Of course they are, for now... by TheRaven64 · · Score: 5, Informative

    The coalition is unpopular with a lot of Liberal Democrat voters (not sure what they'd prefer - probably for the LibDems to continue to be completely ineffectual, rather than to get at least some of their policies passed) and is in danger of a back-bench rebellion by the LibDem MPs who'd rather pander to popular opinion than get on with running the country. They need to do some things about civil liberties to keep these people on side, and cancelling existing programs is one of the few things that won't alienate Conservative back benchers, who are typically against government spending of any kind.

    So far, the coalition seems to be the best government the UK has had while I've been alive (although, to be fair, that's not exactly hard). Unfortunately, it's not clear how long it will manage to stay together.

    --
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    1. Re:Of course they are, for now... by BasilBrush · · Score: 4, Informative

      I'm not sure why you're suggesting this is a Lib Dem move. Both parties in the coalition had scrapping this database as a pre-election pledge. And the one actually actioning it is the Conservative Children's Minister.

      It's way too early to judge this government as a "the best". They've only been in power a year. That's short enough that they can take credit for doing things they promised, whilst still blaming anything wrong with the country on the previous government. Things will change. For a related example when there is another Victoria Climbié type case, this government will get the blame for it.

    2. Re:Of course they are, for now... by mrphoton · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The coalition is unpopular with a lot of Liberal Democrat voters (not sure what they'd prefer - probably for the LibDems to continue to be completely ineffectual, rather than to get at least some of their policies passed) and is in danger of a back-bench rebellion by the LibDem MPs who'd rather pander to popular opinion than get on with running the country.

      Yes, correct. but I don't see the MPs doing anything about it because they all did vote to join the coalition.

      They need to do some things about civil liberties to keep these people on side, and cancelling existing programs is one of the few things that won't alienate Conservative back benchers, who are typically against government spending of any kind.

      Yes the conservatives by nature do want to cut spending. However, they are also the most 'liberal' (small l) party in parliament By this I mean they are against an Orwellian state. This is fundamentally different to the stance taken by Labour. Hence, scrapping ID cards, the introduction of the great repeals bill where they are asking the public which legislation they want scrapped, and scrapping crazy data bases.

      So far, the coalition seems to be the best government the UK has had while I've been alive (although, to be fair, that's not exactly hard). Unfortunately, it's not clear how long it will manage to stay together.

      Yes defiantly, they seem to be making sensible decisions most of the time. I think it will stay together for the full term, firstly because they are going to change the rules so that 55% of the MPs need to vote to for a dissolution. However no party can muster 55% of the votes in this parliament and secondly because Nick and Dave _believe_ they are doing the best thing for the country.

      Also is it me or since the last government left office, have the stories on slashdot about the UK been positive. With the last government the stories were all about ID cards, locking people up for 90 days with no reason, random crazy terror legislation etc.. and now it is all about our freedoms and how the goverment is going to cut up this state from 1984.

    3. Re:Of course they are, for now... by BasilBrush · · Score: 5, Insightful

      If the Lib-Dems had chose to form a coalition with Labour instead, it would have been most loudly objected to by natural Conservative supporters, who voted Liberal Democrat where their own candidate was a no-hoper. Sure, the right of the party wouldn't have been too pleased with the coalition but it would have been the Tory supporters, with their massive sense of entitlement that would be really annoyed.

      Fundamentally it's a problem with the first past the post voting system, not some wide generalisation about party supporters of one side or another.

      If the promise to have a referendum on Alternative Voting is delivered upon, and the electorate are intelligent enough to vote it in, then it will solve this predicament. It will make it always advantageous to vote for the party(s) you prefer, rather than voting tactically for a different party in the hope of keeping the villain of choice out.

    4. Re:Of course they are, for now... by BasilBrush · · Score: 3, Informative

      David Davis was acting as a rebel against Tory policy at the time you mention, thus it's completely wrong to cite his action as representative of Conservatives.

    5. Re:Of course they are, for now... by Hope+Thelps · · Score: 5, Informative

      It's way too early to judge this government as a "the best". They've only been in power a year.

      More like three months in fact.

      --
      To summarise the summary of the summary: people are a problem. ~ h2g2
    6. Re:Of course they are, for now... by Nursie · · Score: 4, Insightful

      How have they sold off the NHS?

      I've been hearing this from bitter labour voters since before the election and I have yet to hear about the UK scrapping the NHS in favour of the US insurance model, or any other radically right-wing policies.

      Now, it's entirely possible that I missed it, as I emigrated to australia a month or so before the election, but to me all this Tory hatred I hear is just bitterness and fear-mongering from the section of the population that relied too heavily on labour handouts in the last parliament.

    7. Re:Of course they are, for now... by Nursie · · Score: 4, Informative

      It's doing precisely what she did: blaming a previous socialist government for over-spending

      Which they did, without any doubt at all

      proudly announcing in the first few months of Thatcher - who was a fine orator for the easily soundbitten - how she would save the country with her laissez faire mantra.

      Which she did, I'm sorry if your sensibilities were offended, but she unloaded some deeply unprofitable industry from the state and thus stopped the profitable sectors from being tied down with mega-taxes to support continuing, economically non-viable industry in areas like coal mining.

      And, within the first two years of government, you must divert all attention to some enemy: the Argentinians, the Russkies, the Arabs. I dread to think what Cameron will come up with.

      Sorry, WTF? After the Iraq fiasco you're saying the Tories will invent enemies!?!?!!!

      Jesus, hope it's fun living in la-la land, sounds like you've been there a while.

    8. Re:Of course they are, for now... by monkeythug · · Score: 3, Informative

      I think it will stay together for the full term, firstly because they are going to change the rules so that 55% of the MPs need to vote to for a dissolution.

      To any independently minded person, it stinks of gerrymandering to change the rules of democracy in order to keep yourself in power. Like some third world dictatorship.

      This is a source of confusion for many people. The 55% rule to dissolve parliament is in addition to the existing "motion of no confidence" which still requires only 50% + 1 MP to pass.

      In a motion of no confidence, parliament is not automatically dissolved - the Prime Minister gets to decide that, and can choose to resign the government instead which results in the Opposition taking over automatically without an election (assuming they have enough seats to form a majority government or can form a coalition of their own to do so).

      The new rule (which I think has now been revised to a higher percentage) allows MPs to force a general election - which is a power that they haven't had before. It gives dissatisfied MPs from across party boundaries another option, where they might not agree on a motion of no confidence since not all of them would necessarily want the opposition to take power without a general election to decide that.

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    9. Re:Of course they are, for now... by FuckingNickName · · Score: 3, Insightful

      No-one really wants AV, it won't pass, and, "we already asked the public about voting reform but they didn't want it".

      Like the US, we are now ideologically a one Party state. It's enough to make me want Soviet democracy. The guaranteed job, housing, and higher education for the willing are icing on the cake.

    10. Re:Of course they are, for now... by BasilBrush · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You say no one wants it, but both Labour and the Liberals use it for internal leadership elections. So they acknowledge it's fairness. Labour and Cons don't want it for General Elections because it gives more of a chance to smaller parties than does FPTP.

      If it's properly explained to the electorate, they should want it, because it gives them the opportunity to better express their preferences. If it doesn't pass it'll come down to ignorance and small c conservatism.

      Of course many would prefer proportional representation to AV. But AV is a good compromise. It cuts out tactical voting, allows smaller parties more of a chance, but still delivers a decisive mandate to the winning party.

    11. Re:Of course they are, for now... by kvezach · · Score: 3, Informative

      So party A has the most first choice votes, and party A has the most second choice votes. But party B gets in. Instead of making 49% of people completely happy and 48% slightly happy, you're making 48% completely happy and 33% slightly happy. Why are you giving the final say to the second choice of those who have voted for the least popular candidates?

      That's because AV is not a very good single-winner method. What you want is something more like what Wikimedia uses - a Condorcet method, where each candidate is counted as beating the candidates ranked below it, and the candidate that beats every other one-on-one (like in sports) wins. Unfortunately, it's too radical (with a very few exceptions, no such method has been used for governmental elections) and so it has absolutely no chance even in situations where using a single-winner method would make sense (like electing a president or a party leader).

      For your example, a simple count-the-winning-side Condorcet method would give:
      A preferred to B by 49, B preferred to A by 51, B wins and gets 51 points
      A preferred to C by 97, C preferred to A by 2, A wins and gets 97 points
      A preferred to D by 97, D preferred to A by 1, A wins and gets 97 points

      B preferred to C by 69, C preferred to B by 22, B wins and gets 69 points
      B preferred to D by 70, D preferred to B by 10, B wins and gets 70 points

      C preferred to D by 22, D preferred to C by 10, C wins and gets 22 points

      and the outcome is: A: 194 pts, B: 190 pts, C: 22 pts, D: nil.
      There are better systems (Wikimedia uses the Schulze method), but they are also more complex.

  2. It is a Perverted Society that we Live In by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    The incident that spawned this database of children:

    In spring 1999, Victoria Climbié (born 2 November 1991 in Abobo, Ivory Coast, died 25 February 2000 in St. Mary's Hospital, London) and her great aunt Marie-Thérèse Kouao arrived in London, sent by her parents for a chance of an education. A few months later, Kouao met Carl Manning on a bus which he was driving, and she and Victoria moved into his flat. It was here that she was abused, including being beaten with hammers, bike chains, and wires; being forced to sleep in a bin liner in the bath; and being tied up for periods of longer than 24 hours. Up to her death, the police, the social services of many local authorities, the NHS, the NSPCC, and local churches all had contact with her, and noted the signs of abuse. However, in what the judge in the trial following Victoria's death described as "blinding incompetence"

    - Ref: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contactpoint

    I can guarantee you that if this child was not physically abused, but instead had a picture taken of her with her clothes off (like in a bathtub) then those guardians would have ended up being arrested immediately and the child taken into protective services.

    Because in this day and age violence is acceptable (to a degree) and excusable (for "punishment"), but nudity and sexuality are considered threatening and abusive. It is a perverted society that we live in.

    1. Re:It is a Perverted Society that we Live In by Joce640k · · Score: 3, Insightful

      "abuse" != "exposure to sex"

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      No sig today...
  3. Why does it seem unlikely? by 91degrees · · Score: 3, Insightful

    A big brother society is expensive, so the Conservatives don't like it. It's an infringement on civil liberties so the Lib Dems don't like it (nor to a lot of the more socially liberal conservatives), and it was introduced by Nu-Labour so neither party likes it.

    Bizarre though it may seem, some people get into politics to improve society.

  4. Re:Think of the children by clark0r · · Score: 4, Informative

    Its not exactly like they have cameras in their bedrooms.

    I think they'e already started exactly that.... "CCTV cameras were installed, including in their bedroom. Social workers explained that the cameras were there to observe them performing their parental duties and for the protection of their baby." http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/3507238/Social-services-set-up-CCTV-camera-in-couples-bedroom.html

  5. Big gov vs small gov by jandersen · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Perhaps the UK coalition government really is winding back Big Brother, as they had promised to do? Does seem unlikely

    Yeah, right. Not that Cameron and Clegg are particularly bad for the country; but the situation right now is what dictates what the government does - Labour would have done exactly the same, give or take a few details. It makes no real difference.

    But in my experience, when they talk about cutting back "big government" or "curbing the nanny state", what they mean is that they want to take power away from elected bodies who are in principle directly responsible to the people, and transfer it to some that are neither elected nor accountable. So we have less "nanny state" (ie. governmental bodies open to scrutiny under the FOIA) and more "private initiative" (ie. companies, which are not covered by the FOIA, and are governed by an impenetrable network of financial interests - who knows, perhaps they are people like Rupert Murdoch and Mohamed al Fayed, both of whom enjoy a certain notoriety in UK)

    Being a democratically minded person myself, I don't really understand those that keep repeating the mantra about "Nanny State" and "Big Government". I suspect they are either the ones that would benefit directly from no being subjected to too much scrutiny, or just very, very naive.

    1. Re:Big gov vs small gov by MullerMn · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Labour would have done exactly the same, give or take a few details. It makes no real difference.

      Er, would that be the labour government that just finished putting the database in? How does that make any sense?

  6. Re:Think of the children by selven · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Indeed.

    Think of the children who can no longer play outside and be kids because of overprotective parents.
    Think of the children who are denied access to the science of chemistry because anything more interesting than vinegar and baking soda is deemed 'too dangerous' for them, or is denied to them by their parents who are afraid of getting on a terrorist watch list.
    Think of the children who can't throw snowballs at each other because 'somebody might get hurt!1!!1'.
    Think of the children who will have no idea how to survive in the real world the moment they turn 18 and have to leave their parents (who have not even slightly prepared them for this) and will probably just end up turning to crime.

    We really are declaring a war on children these days.

  7. Good riddance by Constantin · · Score: 3, Insightful

    As I recall, this database was supposedly super secure, comprehensive, etc. and a great way to aggregate all sorts of very sensitive information in one spot so all sorts of unrelated government agencies could access it. Yup, so secure that the politicians put in a specific provision allowing the families of politicians, celebrities, etc. to opt out of it, while the rest of the public were required to participate. Allegedly an audit trail would be kept re: accesses records, records but considering the somewhat less-than-stellar performance of most governments re: privacy protection, internal auditing, etc. it's probably for the best for this system to be scrapped and for CapGemini to go home.

  8. Re:They discovered... by ffreeloader · · Score: 4, Informative

    It's called "government efficiency".

    All governments run at this level of efficiency, or worse. If the private sector can do something for a $1,000,000 then government can do the same thing for $10,000,000+. You have to work for a governmental organization to see and understand how it's possible. I didn't really understand how this possible until I worked for a US government agency for a while, and then it became very clear. The waste built into the system was incredible. If someone didn't do their job they hired someone else to do it and kept both people on the payroll rather than firing the incompetent/lazy employee and then replacing them. The same went for parts/machinery. If they ordered something custom-built and it didn't come in built to specifications then they had another one built and paid for both.

    Any private enterprise run the same way the government agency I worked for was would have gone out of business in a very short time. It would have bankrupted itself, just like both of our governments are, and have been, doing for years. You think it's chance that deficit spending is the norm? Corruption and incompetence rule.

    --
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