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New Jaguar XJ Suffers Blue Screen of Death

An anonymous reader writes "CNET UK is reporting that it crashed a £90,000 Jaguar XJ Super Sport — one of the most technologically advanced cars on the planet today. It's not the sort of crash you'd imagine, however — An unforseen glitch somewhere within the car's dozens of separate onboard computers, hundreds of millions of lines of code, or its internal vehicular network, led to the dramatic BSOD, which had to be resolved with the use of a web-connected laptop."

60 of 301 comments (clear)

  1. Not a BSOD by localman57 · · Score: 5, Informative

    If you RTFA, there' no mention of Windows. The Car just wouldn't start. They disconnected the battery, and reconnected it.

    1. Re:Not a BSOD by davmoo · · Score: 5, Informative

      Not only is there no mention of Windows, there was apparently no actual "blue screen". The car simply didn't spring to life and the displays were blank.

      Somebody obviously needed to sensationalize by using "blue screen of death" even where it wasn't.

      --
      I want a new quote. One that won't spill. One that don't cost too much. Or come in a pill.
    2. Re:Not a BSOD by localman57 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Exactly. A less sensational headline could have been "XJ Power button kinda flakey". This kinda stuff is what drives technical support people nuts. The technically ignorant public comandeers a technical term, such as BSOD, with a very specific meaning, then generalizes it until it's no more useful than the word "Crash". Less useful, actually, since it makes people familliar with the original meaning infer information that the ludide doesn't mean to imply. For people of this level of technical sophisticaiton (Toughbooks, OBD2 interfaces, etc) to do this is shameful.

      While I'm on this rant, can we please, please, stop using the word "Literally" as an intensity modifier for metaphorical descriptions? I swear, the next person who tells me they're "Literally on fire" gets sprayed with a fire-extinguisher as an object lesson. Power or CO2, I haven't decided yet. We'll just see what feels right at the time.

    3. Re:Not a BSOD by TheGratefulNet · · Score: 5, Insightful

      calling a 'power button' problem is a bit surface-level, wouldn't you say?

      we all can be pretty sure it was NOT the button but the cpu systems and networks behind it.

      if you are going to be pedantic, get it right, at least. literally.

      --

      --
      "It is now safe to switch off your computer."
    4. Re:Not a BSOD by richie2000 · · Score: 3, Informative

      I swear, the next person who tells me they're "Literally on fire" gets sprayed with a fire-extinguisher as an object lesson. Power or CO2, I haven't decided yet. We'll just see what feels right at the time.

      Much too lenient. Halon gas.

      --
      Money for nothing, pix for free
    5. Re:Not a BSOD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

      Exactly. A less sensational headline could have been "XJ Power button kinda flakey". This kinda stuff is what drives technical support people nuts. The technically ignorant public comandeers a technical term, such as BSOD, with a very specific meaning, then generalizes it until it's no more useful than the word "Crash". Less useful, actually, since it makes people familliar with the original meaning infer information that the ludide doesn't mean to imply. For people of this level of technical sophisticaiton (Toughbooks, OBD2 interfaces, etc) to do this is shameful.

      Yeah. They should have said that they bricked the car instead.

    6. Re:Not a BSOD by md65536 · · Score: 4, Informative

      Unfortunately, "literally" can literally mean "metaphorically." It's in the dictionary.

      I believe this is a little trick linguists have snuck in, almost as if to say "Language is not mathematics (and this will really piss off the slashdot crowd, who like both and will go nuts trying to reconcile the two!)"

      "Literal" meaning "metaphorical" is also a literal irony, which is another thing that excites linguists. I think once you get the joke, it won't be so bothersome.

    7. Re:Not a BSOD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny
      Or perhaps it's dropped as in:

      I just dropped a deuce. You may not want to go in there for a while

      That would fit a lot of products that come out these days. Insert your favorite Iphone4/PopularVideoGame/TechnologyProduct reference here...

    8. Re:Not a BSOD by X0563511 · · Score: 3, Informative

      Which is why, on all for walls in one of our halon-protected DCs, there's a big red mushroom switch that aborts the system.

      You'd think that would be the EPO, but that's actually a small button with a glass molly guard (and big steel hammer chained to it) that's next to it. Unexpected, but it seems the right way to go about it :)

      --
      For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
    9. Re:Not a BSOD by paeanblack · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Exactly. A less sensational headline could have been "XJ Power button kinda flakey". This kinda stuff is what drives technical support people nuts.

      I stopped at "hundreds of millions of lines of code"

      # find /usr/src/linux/ -name "*.[ch]" -exec cat {} \;|wc -l
      11561604

      A car OS beats that by twentyfold?

    10. Re:Not a BSOD by Barny · · Score: 3, Insightful

      From TFA

      Over the minutes that followed, the software analysed every one of the car's digital systems in search of a problem. The culprit could have been any number of things -- the Bosch-supplied, Linux-based infotainment system, the Visteon-supplied virtual instrument display, a heat-ravaged processor, an errant mouse somewhere in one of the car's hundreds of miles of wiring, or the dodgy contents of a CNET UK memory key in one of the XJ's two USB ports.

      I know its just sensationalism on their part, but if putting a badly formatted USB stick into the in-dash USB port is enough to kill the car, there is something seriously fucking wrong with it.

      --
      ...
      /me sighs
    11. Re:Not a BSOD by AK+Marc · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Literally is redundant. "I literally fell down the stairs." vs "I fell down the stairs." The word adds no meaning. "Really did" would work if you need a replacement. "I really did fall down the stairs."

      The only time "literally" had any meaning was when differentiating from a common hyperbole and literal truth. For instance, say someone was describing a horrible SCPA balloon accident were to say "it was raining cats and dogs" you used to be able to add "literally" to indicate that there were actually cats and dogs falling out of the sky. Now you have to choose different words.

    12. Re:Not a BSOD by AK+Marc · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Terrific: causes excitement through fear became causes excitement. That's not that big of a change.
      Push the envelope: I don't know of any meaning other than the performance envelope of a plane being a technical term and pushing the envelope meaning operating at maximum physical limits (or finding ways to extend them). And that's the only meaning I've ever heard for its use, someone who thinks what they are doing is at or stretching the limits. Do you hear it used in any other meaning? Or are you arguing that some web designer doing something mundane and thinking that it's groundbreaking doesn't at least think that they are pushing the envelope?
      Drop the ball: every meaning I've heard for that is consistent with the football definition. Have you heard otherwise?
      Decimate: OK, I'll give you that one. No one ever knows about the Roman practice of killing 1/10th of the population (or was it just men?) as a punishment. Now it's used to mean 90%+ damage, not 10% damage.
      Evacuate: Draw off something (originally body fluids). Now it means draw off people or (mostly used by older people) expel something from ones body (I'm trying so hard to not picture my grandmother talking about "evacuating her bowels").
      Nauseous: Took me about three times to break my wife of this. "Oh, you are not nauseated, but instead are causing nausea in others?" Repeat twice, sleep on the couch once, and she's stopped. "I'm sick" is all I get now.

    13. Re:Not a BSOD by Hognoxious · · Score: 2, Funny

      Disclaimer: I am not British ... and I am humbly grateful for that.

      Really? How nice. We're very grateful for it.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
  2. Not that surprising. by blankinthefill · · Score: 3, Insightful

    FTFA: "Over the minutes that followed, the software analysed every one of the car's digital systems in search of a problem. The culprit could have been any number of things -- the Bosch-supplied, Linux-based infotainment system, the Visteon-supplied virtual instrument display, a heat-ravaged processor, an errant mouse somewhere in one of the car's hundreds of miles of wiring, or the dodgy contents of a CNET UK memory key in one of the XJ's two USB ports."

    Lots of systems running together, in a very rugged environment (for a computer, anyways)... I don't think it's terribly surprising that this could happen. In fact, the only surprising fact here is that it doesn't happen MORE often than it does.

    1. Re:Not that surprising. by rotide · · Score: 2, Interesting

      What _is_ surprising to me is that a linux based infotainment system would _ever_ hamper any system outside itself. Why would my audio system glitching cause my car to not start? Ok, if it somehow drains the battery, I get that, but otherwise it should be an offering on the "LAN" and simply not used if not accessible. I mean, are these systems so horridly setup that one specific glitch in the DVD playback software can do _anything_ to the basic functions of the car (brakes, engine, etc)? Or was that just sensationalism in the article merely to illustrate how much software really is "under the hood"?

    2. Re:Not that surprising. by localman57 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Nobody said it was the Linux system. It could have been whatever ECM monitored the Power Button. Normally, you hit the button, and it sends out a message across a bus, typically CAN (or FlexRay in the most modern systems) which tells the other systems to "wake up", and typically also energizes the ignition wire for non-connected systems. If that one ECM was locked up, the car is pretty much hosed until you can reset it. Could well have been a $5 microcontroller imbedded in the dash, and running a fore-ground/background loop, and no real OS.

    3. Re:Not that surprising. by TJamieson · · Score: 4, Informative

      Three words -- Body Control Module. I don't know a damned thing about Jaguars, but with GM vehicles in general they all have a Body Control Module installed. Anything that isn't directly related to the powertrain is controlled by the BCM (incidentally, the powertrain is controlled by the Powertrain Control Module). In many GM vehicles, the BCM can be communicated with via the radio; this is to set certain user options like how long the headlamps will remain illuminated after exiting the vehicle. In the event that something goes wrong with the BCM, the radio will lock because it gets put into an anti-theft state, and typically the car will not start. All because a single capacitor on a shitty little Motorola board got cooked, for example.

      Then, even if you get a used BCM with the same option codes as the one you're replacing, the radio will remain in an anti-theft state because the thinking of the designers (I guess) was that people would start swapping BCMs just to steal radios -- dumb.

      GM, of course, has a tool to reprogram BCMs, but even they say there's a 50/50 shot their programming will render the BCM unusable. From my limited research of the boards they use, it seems there is little if any CRC done in any shape or form, so it sounds like the board will happily write bad or invalid data to the PROM.

      Again, I don't know how a Jaguar design works, but there are vehicles where the radio does indeed affect other parts of the vehicle, much to the dismay of owners and dealers alike.

      --
      For the last time, PIN Number and ATM Machine are redundancies!
    4. Re:Not that surprising. by zwede · · Score: 2, Interesting

      You can't use a used BCM as that is exactly what GM was trying to prevent (for anti-theft reasons). What you do is you get a brand new, never powered up BCM (they are not especially expensive). The first time it is powered up, it will accept the ignition key and unlock everything. That first key is then permanently stored in the BCM.

      Again, it's supposed to work this way and it really did help drastically reduce theft of both radios and entire cars. For instance, before GM had the Passkey system the Camaro was the most stolen car year after year. Once Passkey was introduced it completely dropped off the list.

    5. Re:Not that surprising. by Alien+Being · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It sounds like this cat needs a watchdog.

    6. Re:Not that surprising. by Beyond_GoodandEvil · · Score: 3, Informative

      For instance, before GM had the Passkey system the Camaro was the most stolen car year after year. Once Passkey was introduced it completely dropped off the list.
      GM also stopped making the Camaro from 2002-2010, that will help reduce the number stolen.

      --
      I laughed at the weak who considered themselves good because they lacked claws.
    7. Re:Not that surprising. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting
      I work at Jaguar - hence anonymous post...

      I can confirm we've had lots of trouble with the integration of the various systems and trying to centralise it all. There are lots of different systems onboard, all talking differently and it had delayed us a lot but we had finally resolved all the issues... well almost! Unless this was an older car which hasn't been flashed with the update.

    8. Re:Not that surprising. by KahabutDieDrake · · Score: 2, Interesting

      NO NO NO. Lets not got back to pure mechanical. Lets instead remove the arduous emissions regulators, and instead of the silly emissions grading system we use now, use only real world driving data for emissions testing and control.

      The problem isn't the electronics themselves. It's the silly ass way that emissions are tested. Causing car makers to profit by making convoluted systems which retard emissions under certain circumstances (cold start, etc etc). Interestingly, while emissions would be slightly higher, gas mileage and output horsepower would be substantially increased without these regulations.

      Electronic control systems on cars are capable of being a boon to both performance and emissions. The regulations we currently have, and the peculiar way they are enforced causes the problem we see. Where a faulty sensor will totally fuck the car up. Most of those sensors don't actually help the performance, longevity, or output of the car in any way. What they do instead is gimp it significantly so that the emissions are also gimped. All one has to do is looking at the high performance track cars to see where emissions control has gone wrong. More power, more torque, more efficiency, only slightly more emissions.

      The second half of this is maintenance. More than 1/3 of GM income is from after market repair, upkeep and parts. We need a law that states that all vehicle diagnostic systems must be open source/freeware (or at least provided with vehicle purchase). Then we need to encourage auto makers to include the kinds of health check systems that would notice a faulty sensor, and thereby allow the car to bypass that feedback loop until it can be fixed (or at the very least moderate it). This is far easier said than done, I know, but it is possible, and it's not a cost issue, it's an upkeep issue. GM doesn't want you to be able to figure out that you need to replace a 3$ relay. They want you to bring your car into a certified shop, and pay them 80$/hr to diagnose the issue, and replace the 3$ relay with a 36$ part, at their labor rates. (it'll take an hour, even though I could do it in about 2 minutes).

      I used to have a VW passat 2.0t GLX. It was a nice car by all accounts. But the engine was a fucking nightmare. I purchased it used, within 24 hours the valve train gave out, caused by a oil sludge issue, causing failure of the oil pump. A "rebuilt" engine was put in at no cost to me (damn right!). For the next 4 weeks, every other day (averaged) I got some kind of warning light on my dash, or some kind of funky behavior from the engine. Each time it was a different "sensor" or "relay" module. Now one could argue that they should have all been replaced when the engine was rebuilt, but that's another story. So after the third time, at 150$ a pop for diagnostics and replacement, I got fed up and spoke to the head of the service department about it. She (yes, female, and hot, and knew cars backwards, sexy sexy sexy) told me to buy the diagnostic cable and software off of ebay and replace the modules myself as they failed. I did one better, I got the diag software and cable for 20$. Then I replaced every relay, sensor and module I could get to without tearing the engine out of the car. It ran like a champ for a year. I resold all the used modules to an independent VW shop (where I got the replacements) and the whole endeavor only cost me 80$. Then I sold that piece of shit and got a BMW, because at least their engines work. (the onboard navi-tainment system, not so much, currently working on replacing it with a stand alone computer of my own build)

  3. Re:Yay! by Fwipp · · Score: 3, Informative

    They're not, though. The car didn't BSOD, and TFA makes no mention of them running any Microsoft software. They did, however, mention Linux.

  4. Yo Slashdot, by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    I heard you like car analogies, so we put a computer in your car so you can crash when you crash.

    Wait, that's not actually an analogy.

  5. Not a BSOD - No Microsoft here by wowbagger · · Score: 4, Insightful

    In fairness, the title is misleading: Blue Screen of Death implies Microsoft Windows, and there is no Microsoft Windows involved in this story (at least, not in the car). Indeed, the only OS mentioned in the story is Linux.

    I despise Microsoft and Windows, but I do so for REAL reasons, which this story IS NOT. The summary should be fixed to note this wasn't a BSOD, that Windows was not at fault, etc., just to be fair and consistent.

    As it stands, the summary is just prejudiced and misleading.

    (oh, sorry. forgot where I was for a moment.)

  6. Why? by Pentium100 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I still don't get it - why cars need so much software? Older cars worked quite well with just mechanical controls, so why there are so many computers in new cars?

    Non-essential systems do not count - if the radio/usb player fails, I'll be annoyed (and I can replace the player with a simpler tape deck if I want to), if the steering or brakes fail, I'll be injured or dead.

    So, why the millions of lines of code? Are they really necessary for the system to do the job what simpler (and more reliable) mechanical linkages did in the past (steering, brakes, throttle, clutch, gear selector)? Mechanical devices fail, but they usually give "notice" before doing so - you can see the rusty rod or the cracked link before it fails. Oh, and you still need the mechanical device (the wheels somehow have to turn in the direction that the user turned the steering wheel). Also, people seem to be able to design mechanical devices that work as intended, while software is almost always buggy.

    My 28 year old car somehow seems to be able to work and get me from point A to point B even though the tape deck has more complex electronics (well, it has a RDS decoder, Dolby B and C NR, logic controls, LCD display, ability to control CD and MD changers etc) and the electronics of the car itself consist of a few relays.

    1. Re:Why? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      Diagnostics is the first reason. The amount of information you can get on any car the past 10-15 years is absolutely amazing. Acceleration levels, fuel usage levels, break levels, even tire pressure levels, and logs of many of these functions. It dramatically reduces the cost and time to check a car for problems and unusual behaviour when you have very small very simple computers monitoring all the essential systems on your car. The software also usually permits altering a lot of parameters - useful when finetuning the car in question. The logs in particular are frequently used to assess crashes - which is for example how we have discovered that vast majority of crashes the driver either does not brake at all, or only applied a small amount of braking force. This information is why a lot of manufacturers are now looking at into installing systems into cars that will automatically apply the brakes if a crash is inevitable (to get down the speed and reduce the damage and danger of the crash).

    2. Re:Why? by KwKSilver · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I still don't get it - why cars need so much software?

      To drive up the price and profit margins. Silly goose.

      --
      If you want your life to be different, live it differently.
    3. Re:Why? by morari · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I wonder this as well. Of course, I drive a 1972 VW Super Beetle everyday. The most complex electronics in it is my aftermarket stereo! :P

      --
      "He who can destroy a thing, controls a thing." --Paul Atreides, Dune
    4. Re:Why? by demonlapin · · Score: 5, Insightful

      A 2010 Toyota Camry gets 268 hp from a V6 engine while still getting 20 mpg around town. Let's see a 1982 model do that.

    5. Re:Why? by hcdejong · · Score: 5, Informative

      Engine management is a lot more sophisticated than a mechanical carburettor can ever hope to be. Between environmental regulations (cleaner air), diagnostics (cutting down on repair time) and performance (getting more from a smaller, lighter engine without compromising reliability) it's gotten quite complicated. Then there's the chassis, with ABS, ESP and other electronic driver aids. Miles of wiring have been replaced by a lighter, more reliable bus system for all electric functions in the car.
      Some of this is down to ever-tighter regulation (emissions, safety). Others are due to the competitive nature of car sales: ever more features get tacked on.
      Thanks to electronics, cars have gotten a lot more reliable over time. The last few years, car companies have overstepped, though, offering new features before they were ready, and not doing enough testing for proper integration.

    6. Re:Why? by Fishead · · Score: 2, Interesting

      After years of driving a 1990 Nissan Pathfinder powered by a 3.0L V6 outputting around 140HP we upgraded to a 2005 Nissan Xterra with a 4.0L V6 that has around 270 HP and consumes less fuel. What changed? Variable Valve Timing. The engine now has the ability to change the CAM on the fly. When I want power I get power. If I'm cruising on the highway and want efficiency I get efficiency. Sure it's immensely more complex then my '77 Chevy truck with the most high tech component being the AM radio, but my truck gets similar power to the Xterra with over twice the fuel consumption. When I assembled my engine I chose which CAM I wanted. I love that the Xterra can swap that up as necessary.

            What I don't understand is how the car manufacturer could let entertainment options potentially take down the entire system. Sure it's great that my vehicle has all these fantastic features, but how about we isolate them from the critical functions? What would happen if I was driving my Xterra in the winter time and the software failed while I was going around a corner in the snow at the precise moment that the TCS system applied the brakes to one of my wheels to control a small amount of slip? My reckless driving aside, a system that is able to apply the brakes on my vehicle should not be so unstable as to kill me just because a third party application locked up.

    7. Re:Why? by RoFLKOPTr · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It dramatically reduces the cost and time to check a car for problems and unusual behaviour when you have very small very simple computers monitoring all the essential systems on your car.

      And yet repair shops still charge you $85 to plug a machine into the OBD port and tell you that you can pay them to fix it.... hmmmm.....

    8. Re:Why? by Achromatic1978 · · Score: 4, Insightful
      Yeah, because 4 ton land yachts that require a honking great V8 to get 0-60 in 10-15 seconds, all the while getting a good 2-3mpg, are such a better investment...

      The days of 9' wide Buicks were 40 years ago, spud.

    9. Re:Why? by KarmaMB84 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      A 1982 model could move itself with just 70 hp and many could get 50 mpg on the highway compared to the Camry's 29. Sounds like we're advancing in the wrong direction to me.

    10. Re:Why? by winwar · · Score: 3, Insightful

      "A 1982 model could move itself with just 70 hp and many could get 50 mpg on the highway compared to the Camry's 29. Sounds like we're advancing in the wrong direction to me."

      And the 1982 model would not be legal for sale today. In any case, you can buy an entry level Toyota which will get very good mileage and be superior in pretty much every way to that 1982 car (safety, emissions, reliability, performance). Or buy a Prius.

      What's your point again?

    11. Re:Why? by Giometrix · · Score: 2, Interesting

      As an owner of a 2009 Mercedes, let me tell you, its not electronics, but unintuitive Mercedes design...

      For instance, if you want to lower the volume on the navigation, you have to wait for it to speak and then lower the volume through the steering wheel. Every other car on the planet has a setting for navigation volume.

      --
      Download free e-books, lectures, and tutorials at bookgoldmine.com
    12. Re:Why? by bk2204 · · Score: 2, Informative

      The diagnostic systems that you plug in are very, very expensive. I once had to do some work on an IBM Thinkpad with an ancient version of SCO OpenServer that was running reverse-engineered BMW/Mini diagnostic software. This unit cost $600. The official unit costs $20,000. That $85 charge seems fairly small in comparison.

    13. Re:Why? by Amouth · · Score: 2, Informative

      why would it not be legal for sale again???

      crash tests??  hey if people can still legaly ride motor cycles then i don't see the problem with not having air bags in my car.

      sorry i drive a 70's MG ..  i get 35mpg around town... it has all of 4 fuses and no computing power at all..

      and if your excuse is emissions - well i pass that too (well did until 2 years ago when they got rid of doing sniffer testing)

      I honestly haven't seen any real gains from what they are doing - they say that this and that gives x and y but i just don't see it.

      and as for reliability..  i've had more trouble with cars with ECU's than cars with out..  to the point that i don't buy them.

      --
      '...if only "Jumping to a Conclusion" was an event in the Olympics.'
  7. Well, apparently not Lucas fault by drerwk · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Lucas went defunct in 1996. The lord of darkness went dark. But the spirit lives on. The story reminded me of a TR-6 I had in college. You never knew what would happen when you turned the key. Nine out of ten it would start.

    1. Re:Well, apparently not Lucas fault by kimvette · · Score: 2, Funny

      "Lucas went defunct in 1996."

      So recent Jags no longer have the "off-dim-flicker" settings on the headlight switch, but due to Ford's influence there is just an increased risk of catching on fire?

      --
      The Christian Right is Neither (Christian nor right). See: Matthew 23, Matthew 25, Ezekiel 16:48-50
  8. Re:Unsafe at *almost* any speed? by zippthorne · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It did fail safe. It didn't let the car even start. "Parked" is about as safe as you can get, for a car.

    --
    Can you be Even More Awesome?!
  9. Re:No, you didn't. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    The critical systems - brakes and steering aren't drive-by-wire

    Brakes absolutely are drive-by-wire these days. That's how stability control works. It's an advancement on ABS where a central computer can modulate the brakes for all 4 wheels. It's not exclusively electrical, it's still electrical control on a hydraulic system, but the ECU very much has the ability to screw up your breaking. We had a case on our SUV where the stability control system got confused, the skid light started blinking on the dash, and the car started jerking as the ECU tried to correct a skid or spin that wasn't occuring. All this on dry pavement at 50mph.

  10. I laugh at Jaguar owners by Reservoir+Penguin · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Whatever problem they are left stranded waiting for a certified Jaguar technician. On the other hand I can fix my 1985 Jimny with a hammer and a screwdriver and will survive an EMP blast! (I think the stereo is only thing that contains digital components)

    --
    US-UK-Israel: The real Axis of Evil
  11. "hundreds of millions of lines of code"?! by G3ckoG33k · · Score: 2, Insightful

    What?!

    "hundreds of millions of lines of code"

    I don't believe that number

    Just a bogoword from an illiterate.

    .

  12. Re:Unsafe at *almost* any speed? by davidwr · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Depends on where you park it, or where the car parks itself if its computer crashes and the fail-safes cause it to park itself.

    Driver Dies After Officers Crash Into Stalled Vehicle

    --
    Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
  13. Too much eminem by LoRdTAW · · Score: 4, Funny

    I was going to read the article, until I reached this line:
    "Our first instinct was that we'd exhausted the car's battery by watching too much Eminem on its integrated DVD player"

    Then I figured out their problem. The car simply could not take take it anymore and once it realized they were going to load an 8 mile DVD, committed suicide.

  14. Windows did stop working by davidwr · · Score: 2, Funny

    Well, I *assume* the power windows did not respond to user input.

    --
    Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
  15. and to think... by WiglyWorm · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I got called crazy when I brought up this site's anti-MS pro-linux slant yesterday. The thing was running Linux and it's stillbeing blamed on Microsoft!

  16. Should have used QNX. by LikwidCirkel · · Score: 4, Interesting

    It's a Bosch dash running Linux for the infotainment. I much prefer Harman dashes that run QNX like Audi, BMW, and a number of other car makers use... totally more reliable IMO. I've actually worked hands-on with some of this stuff, and I must admit, I trust QNX much more for mission-critical applications, like automobiles.

    1. Re:Should have used QNX. by LoRdTAW · · Score: 4, Interesting

      That is pretty much the realm of QNX, a real-time embedded mission critical operating system. I once met a guy who wrote software for QNX used on communications satellites. So yea its pretty damn reliable. They used to offer a free desktop OS (Neutrino RTOS) around the same time Be Inc released BeOS R5 PE. I still have a download kicking around too. Before that (1999 ish) they offered a single floppy image that booted your PC and even provided a few small and simple demo programs and even a game. Its amazing feature was a web browser and Ethernet card drivers. Pretty amazing stuff for its time.

  17. Re:Jaguar? by couchslug · · Score: 2, Interesting

    That is NOT a Troll, as any (old and experienced) mechanic can tell you!

    The British car and motorcycle industries tried manfully to commit suicide. They built pretty, beautifully finished, delicate unreliable junk.

    That worked until Japan and Germany ate their lunch by producing tough, reliable vehicles you didn't have to be a skilled mechanic to keep on the road. I grew up working on both the cars and bikes, and have no desire to go back. They were fine vehicles by 1940s reliability standards, but that was a long time ago even in the 1960s when the decline began.

    Here's the classic on the Britbike implosion, the car story is similar:

    http://www.amazon.com/Whatever-Happened-British-Motorcycle-Industry/dp/1859604277

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    "This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
  18. Insufficient paranoia by Animats · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Many years ago, I was at Ford Aerospace, where we had some slight involvement with the Ford EEC IV engine control module. The designers of that were paranoid about a failure of the module making the car immobile. So they did the following:

    • The device was designed for a 30 year life span. (Many 1980s Fords are still running with EEC IV modules, so they did it.)
    • The program for the device was etched into the silicon of the CPU. There is no way to change it without replacing the entire module. Huge amounts of effort were put into getting this small program right, including some proof of correctness work. It was successful; there's never been a recall.
    • There is a removable module with a ROM that has engine parameters. (The format is known; people have made their own for racing purposes.) It's just tables, no code. It's a bulky metal-cased plug-in module, hard to damage.
    • The device starts from a clean ground state at power-up. There is no persistent state that can prevent startup.
    • There's a dumb backup mode in the program. If the complex engine control algorithm fails, it reverts to a simple backup mode. Performance isn't very good.
    • There's a second hardware backup mode in the ignition controller. This was referred to internally as "limp-home mode". If a timer in the ignition controller detects that the EEC isn't responding, it drops into a mode where the spark fires each time a pulse from the crankshaft position sensor comes in. In this mode, there's no spark advance, no smart fuel injection, no active emissions control, no engine/transmission coordination, and top speed is about 25MPH. You can still drive the car.

    Designers today are not being sufficiently paranoid. They're assuming that the entire system stays up and that tow trucks are easily available.

  19. Re:Unsafe at *almost* any speed? by TangoMargarine · · Score: 2

    We don't need no sticking fail-sa

    I agree; we don't need any fail-safes that stay stuck in the fail-safed position after the situation has been rectified :-)

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  20. same reason as your thermostat by YesIAmAScript · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Why aren't thermostats the round Honeywell mechanical jobs anymore? They worked.
    Why are egg timers in your kitchen all electronic now? Mechanical timers worked.
    Why does your washing machine have electronic controls now instead of the big mechanical dial with 4 modes on it?
    Why is your electricity meter an electronic counter now instead of the mechanical spinning thing with 5 dials?
    Why does the tape deck in your car have an electronic tuner instead of a dial, variable capacitor and a string loop with a needle on it to indicate the station?
    Why are watches electronic (quartz) now instead of complex movements?

    The answer is the same in all cases. It's because software and electronics are cheaper and do the job better than the old mechanical device did. Your washing machine can have more flexible modes, like the ability to extend the rinse cycle in increments, or even add a 3rd rinse. Your thermostat can have a setback mode to save energy when you aren't there. Your egg timer can be set to beep 5 minutes before the timer expires. Your electricity meter can count daytime electricity different than nighttime electricity. Your tape deck's tuner can select stations more accurately, have simpler preset stations (ever see how the 5 preset buttons on a radio with a tuner know worked? very complex) and is much smaller. Quartz watches keep time more accurately than mechanical watches, last longer and can have chronographs and other functions without adding a lot of cost.

    And in the end, it's really the flexibility of software that wins out. Software can be programmed to do a lot more complex things and can be reprogrammed to do it slightly differently very cheaply, no need to change tooling as you would to change mechanical parts.

    Remember what mechanical adding machines and cash registers looked like? What they worked like? A mechanical cash register had to have far more buttons (10 for each digit) and was limited in what it could do. Want to put in 5 identical items? You had to pull the lever or push sum 5 times. Meanwhile electronic cash registers don't just add. Sure they can calculate different tax rates on different items, that's just the beginning! You don't just put prices of items into the cash register, you put it items. And the cash register knows the price of the item, knows whether it has a special tax rate (like groceries sometimes do) and knows if you get a discount for buying 5 of them. And it also does inventory control, it sends info back to the central computer at the store to indicate they've sold 10 widgets. At the end of the day, the system figures out you've sold over 80% of the widgets in stock and the system suggests you order more widgets from your supplier.

    That kind of "behind the scenes" stuff also takes place in cars. A modern car like this Jaguar emits fewer trace emissions in a year than your car does in a day and this is due to the tight engine control possible with a sensor package and control software.

    A modern car knows if you're in the car. It unlocks the door if you're outside and pull the handle, it just senses your key (which is more of a fob) in your pocket. It auto locks when you get out. When you're inside, all you have to do to start it is touch a button, since it knows the key is inside, you don't have to insert it into a lock (and mechanical locks wear out, as I'm sure you with a 30 year old car can attest). When you touch the button, it cranks the car until it starts, no less, no more. No need to hold down the button until the engine catches. And if the car is already running it doesn't try to start the car and make a screeching sound. While its running, if your turn on the A/C and it puts more idle load on the engine, it applies more idle throttle to the engine so that it doesn't stall. If you let out the clutch a little too fast, it applies throttle to prevent a stall there too. If you put the clutch in and the gas at the same time, it will cut the engine off at 4,000 rpm to prevent over rev damage. You have an electronic parking brak

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  21. Re:Jaguar? by V!NCENT · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Actually, the best programmers _ARE_ in america:
    http://www.fastcompany.com/node/28121/print

    Most bug-free and mission critical code on the planet (and beyond).

    --
    Here be signatures
  22. Re:But from a Use Case perspective ... by dgatwood · · Score: 3, Interesting

    My guess would be a separate power management controller somewhere that was wedged with everything in a powered down state. They couldn't talk to the main computer (ECU, maybe?) to reset it, which probably means that the main computer itself wasn't getting properly powered up by the power button. You wouldn't typically leave a computer system running off the car battery (even with the displays powered down) while the car is shut off. It would consume too much power.

    Either way, I agree that it probably can't have been the button itself, or else the power cycle wouldn't have fixed it. Well, I suppose it could be a self-resetting fuse somewhere, or (maybe) a stuck latching relay, but odds are, it's a power management controller or similar.

    In the grand scheme of things, this probably calls for the addition of a power management reset feature, e.g. two extra sets of switch contacts and a 555 timer IC wired up as a pulse delay circuit so that if you hold the power button down for ten seconds, the chip's power gets momentarily interrupted by a depletion-mode MOSFET. You know, something so simple that it is almost guaranteed not to fail in the lifetime of the vehicle.

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  23. Re:Doesn't it bother you that ... by vux984 · · Score: 2, Informative

    They are the most singularly unhelpful and woefully incomplete design documents ever created.

    They should be generated from the design, not the other way around.

    Wow. No. Use cases are the single most important design document in a system. They outline a task that the user wants to accomplish, and software that isn't designed around them is always a PITA to use.

    Here's an real world example I'm dealing with right now, anonymized somewhat.

    We manufacture widgets to client specifications. The specifications include selecting parameters within a set range. However a set of 'easy' parameters is SKU X with one set of pricing, while if they spec outside those easy parameters within a more difficult set, its SKU Y, with a different pricing and warranty.

    This is fine.

    However the software was designed around the client calling up, identifying the product they want, and then listing the specs. The screens are set up in such a way that you look up the customer, create, and order, add the product, and then fill out the specs.

    So far so good.

    Unfortunately the people communicating orders to us don't differentiate between X and Y. They just want a 'widget' and then give us parameters. So our order entry people have to essentially take note of the parameters they want, determine which sku it is, and then enter the sku and then enter the parameters.

    This is because the designer failed to understand the use-case for playing an order for these widgets.

    Were are looking to rectify the system by creating a product 'families' which contain the same parameter inputs. This will allow the order entry person to select the product family (which the customer knows), enter in the parameters - which they know, and the software will determine the final SKU to use at the end, based on the parameters that were entered.

    This is a design that follows a use-case. We are modelling the systems behavioral requirements by detailing the actual scenario under which it gets used; in this case the particular order information is 'naturally' passed from client to order entry.

    Discounting use-cases results in software that doesn't work in a way that is convenient for the user. It may be more convenient for the developer.

    Getting good use cases is difficult, and its frequently done VERY POORLY. Where they often model poor processes that were being done with 'the previous system' or 'by hand'. But use cases that model what actually needs to be accomplished, and reflect the flow of information proplerly, results in elegant and easy to use systems.

  24. Re:Unsafe at *almost* any speed? by zippthorne · · Score: 2

    Your car didn't cause any injuries, though. I'm willing to bet that the idiot who rammed into your vacant car wan't driving a parked car.

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