Can an Open Source Map Project Make Money?

Roblimo writes "Bing and Mapquest both use output from OpenStreetMap.org. Mapquest supports the project with money for equipment and access to the code they've written to integrate OSM's work with their display. Bing? They just take from the project and do nothing for it in return. This may be okay in a legal sense, but it is a seriously nekulturny way to behave. Even so, having Microsoft's Bing as a reference might help the project's founder make money. They've put a lot of work into this project, and it's doing a lot of people a lot of good, so they certainly deserve some sort of payback, either direct or indirect. They have a few ideas about how they might legitimately earn a few bucks from their project while remaining free software purists. Do you have any ideas, yourself, about how they might turn a few bucks from OSM?"

Comments

Re:Freedom

[tomhudson]

The GPL doesn't force you to do anything. You're entirely free to not use the code. If you use it, that is your choice, freely made (nobody's going to believe the Underpants Gnomes team up with the GNAA to install firefox on your pc).

As with any software, you're free to either (1) use the code, or (2) not use the code.

If you pick (1), abide by the licensing terms to the extent required by law.

If you pick (2), you need no longer abide by the license.

Note that if you pick (2), you still have to abide by copyright, etc., so I'm *not* saying that not using the code gives you an unlimited license to copy and redistribute in the case of proprietary code (only being pedantic in making the distinction because someone else will be a nazi :-)

Re:MapQuest is participating in Free Software sens

[Sir_Lewk]

The accusation that MapQuest only take from OpenStreetMap is untrue.

Mapquest supports the project with money for equipment and access to the code they've written to integrate OSM's work with their display.

Second sentence of the fucking summary. Who is making that accusation?

Re:Freedom

[cynyr]

no she can't. For the last several years that has not been the case. Employies have had little barginening power in relation to working conditions, or pay, simply there is a high enough unemployment rate that there will always be someone willing to work that job for the just barely legal conditions of the employer.

Waiters/waitresses are allowed to be paid below minimum wage in places that allow tips, at least here in Minnesota MN, USA. They even allow that for places that use a tip pool, where all of the tips everyone on a shift made goes into a pool, and then divided evenly across all of the staff(yes all of the staff, dishwashers too).

Re:Freedom

[houghi]

It is like tipping in the USofA. I live in Leuven, Belgium and tipping is NOT custom here. Service (and TVA) are included in the bill. Service is better then some places in Belgium where tipping IS expected.

And it would be a LOT easier for many Americans if it would be clear to all how much you where to pay for the service you have gotten, regardless if this is the service in a restaurant or the service given by a doctor.

I agree that there is a difference between legal and moral. However different places have different morals or customs and then it is easier to inform the people what the customs are.

I use a LOT of OSS software and I never knew I had to contribute back to each and every piece of software that I used in the company. Firefox is, I think, one of the most used products in companies around the world and I am sure almost none of the companies contribute back to that project.

Clarifications

[SWroclawski]

I want to make a few clarifications to the article.

1. This was, as Roblimo points out, a Facebook chat. This wasn't an interview and I didn't know it was going to be the subject of an article. I was having a conversation with a friend, but when friends are reporters... well mea culpa.

2. Bing is not doing evil here. They are in full compliance with the license as far as I know. And they have expressed interest in offering the project help in the future. I stated a fact, which is that nothing concrete has some out yet, but that's not quite the same "they don't give back.". It's my hope that they will do something for the project, but they're not required to.

3. Lots of companies use OpenStreetMap to make money. There's nothing wrong with that. And many of the same individuals who make money off OSM are its biggest supporters in terms of spreading the word, in terms of helping support the OpenStreetMap Foundation, and by going out and mapping their neighborhoods. There's no separation in my mind between these people and other contributors.

4. The license is essentially attribution-sharealike. It's like the GPL. If there's modification of our data, they're required to make it available to others under the same terms as they received it. That's the license, and that's what everyone is following.

I want to make sure this confusion is cleared up, and if there are any other impressions that are wrong based on this article, I want to apologize for them.

- Serge

Re:Clarifications

[SWroclawski]

> you are doing an AWESOME job.

I don't speak for the project. I'm just a contributor, just like if I were a Wikipedia contributor.

> May be you could suggest the "free-as-in-beer users" of OSM to to add a sponsor link to their search engine.

I don't know what a sponsor link to a search engine is, but the license dictates usage, and everyone is in full compliance with the license.

> For instance, I find fairly difficult to edit maps in open street map, but if there was a good interface to allow the user to report back to OSM that an information is wrong with a descriptive text might help mappers that know how to edit the maps to correct them.

This question has multiple answers, so let me try my best to address them:

1) If you're interested in learning more about OSM, I highly recommend joining the newbies list. It's very low traffic and very high quality.

2) Personally, I think most mapping in OSM isn't that hard (sometimes it is but not usually). Maybe if you explained what you found hard, we could work on that?

3) The suggestion for textual feedback back to OSM is already in the works for the new website, which will hopefully be up later this year. I think that's the bridge between mappers and non-mapping contributors you're asking about.

Re:Freedom

[RobertLTux]

Well in the US the way the laws goes is there is an absolute minimum rate and if tips to not make the difference between that and the stated minimum wage the employer must make up the difference quoting from the regs

"The Fair Labor Standards Act (FLSA) requires payment of at least the federal minimum wage to covered, nonexempt employees. An employer of a tipped employee is only required to pay $2.13 an hour in direct wages if that amount plus the tips received equals at least the federal minimum wage, the employee retains all tips and the employee customarily and regularly receives more than $30 a month in tips. If an employee's tips combined with the employer's direct wages of at least $2.13 an hour do not equal the federal minimum hourly wage, the employer must make up the difference. "

Oh and it is custom to tip at least US$ 0.25 to show that the tip was not forgotten (but should only be done if the service was so bad you would be sueing the manager if it was worse (meal late/wrong drinks not refilled as needed server was drunk/stoned napkins not provided and my favorite HAD TO ASK MORE THAN ONCE FOR THE BILL)

Re:Freedom

[TheRaven64]

Only a clueless twat who's never had a job like that would dare be so flippant.

Or someone who doesn't live in the USA. Over here, serving staff are not exempted from minimum wage, so they don't rely on tips to survive. Tipping is reserved for people who provide good service, it's not just a hidden fee on top of the meal price.

Re:Freedom

[SWroclawski]

> it just doesn't contain the terms that (apparently) the developer would like

No.... It's a term that the article of this slashdot blurb doesn't like. We in the project (including me, the person who is being paraphrased) have no issue with anyone making money off the project.