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The Map of Critical Thinking and Modern Science

Jamie noticed an interesting map of critical thinking and science done in a sort of subway style. You can track Newton and Einstein and Tesla and so on. It's actually pretty interesting to navigate.

32 of 150 comments (clear)

  1. Only One Half of the World Covered in This Map by eldavojohn · · Score: 2, Interesting

    This map at first glance appears to be decidedly western individuals only.

    --
    My work here is dung.
    1. Re:Only One Half of the World Covered in This Map by IndustrialComplex · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I zoomed in on a random portion of the map, and it lost a lot of it's charm when it listed Phil Plait, heading up 21st century Astronomy along the same line as Carl Sagan.

      I don't want to knock what Phil has done, and I DO read his BadAstronomy blog fairly regularly. However, I think that including him in this map is highly premature. He is well educated, and can put together a somewhat interesting article, but I'm thinking it's a bit more pop-celebrity and reaching to find a 'current' astronomer that put him on there.

      Not that in 15-20 years I would be surprised to see him on a later version of this map, but it just feels like a rush to make it more relevant. No offence Phil, if you read this, but I'm sure you can agree that there are likely a great number of more influential Astronomers who may better deserve the 'inheritance'.

      There will probably be a few other 'gripes', and if the creator of this map had ended it a little earlier we might have been able to avoid statements like mine. It becomes an easy debate topic like a top 100 list.

      Perhaps some metrics to show why the latest people were placed there?

      Back to reading Phil's posts on Fark...

      --
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    2. Re:Only One Half of the World Covered in This Map by Shihar · · Score: 5, Insightful

      True, but that in large part is because where you put the period at the end of this map has a massive influence on where you begin, especially philosophically. That isn't to suggest that there were not some parallels elsewhere in the world, but due to the great leaps the West made over the East from 16th century on up until the dawn of the 21st, those parallels became dead ends.

      China was ahead of the West for a very long time. Right up into and even during the early part of the colonial age China was pretty far ahead of the West in terms of technology and culture. If China had maintained that path we might be in exactly the same place we are today in terms of technology, but instead of being able to trace back philosophical lines from Europe, to Roman, to Greece, you might trace it back from Japan, to Korea, to China with a set of Eastern philosophers to match. Hell, if you were to simply draw the map in the 1500s of where the major technologies trace their schools of thought from you would have two maps, on Eastern and one Western, and the Eastern one would be further ahead.

      This isn't even to suggest that the West made its advancements in a vacuum. Lots of technology and thought crossed both ways across Eurasia, but when an idea travels a few thousand miles in the ancient world and suffers a dozen translations you pretty much lose all traceability. Hell, just jumping from an Islamic Empire to a Christian Empire is a pretty sure way to ensure that traceability is lost. It isn't like a Christian scholar in 1,200 AD influenced by an Islamic Arab scholar is going to cite his inspiration. The only reason why we remember those ancient Greek scholars at all is because the empires that came after worship the empires that came before, and were happy to cite them as influences.

      Starting the map in the 1500s and working up to today means it is going to be a Western map because that was the period of time when the West dominated world thinking. Draw this map from 2000 BC to 1500 AD, or from 600 AD to 1200 AD, or from many other two points and you would see totally different maps. Hell, I bet the map from 2000 AD to 2500 AD is going to be a wild one with lines crossing all over the world like never before.

    3. Re:Only One Half of the World Covered in This Map by 0xdeadbeef · · Score: 3, Informative

      Yeah, I noticed that. And yet it is missing Gerard Kuiper. How many belts does Phil have named after him?

    4. Re:Only One Half of the World Covered in This Map by ultranova · · Score: 4, Informative

      This map at first glance appears to be decidedly western individuals only.

      Well, perhaps you might list some important non-Western scientists from the last 500 years which the map covers who are missing from it, so that they might be added in?

      Besides, as a quick test, at least Jagadish Chandra Bose, Andrey Kolmogorov and Min Chueh Chang seem to have made it in.

      --

      Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.

    5. Re:Only One Half of the World Covered in This Map by radtea · · Score: 4, Insightful

      This map at first glance appears to be decidedly western individuals only.

      Glance again. You'll see Bose and Yukawa, at least, and a few others as well.

      But I agree that the non-Westerners who invented calculus and laid down the foundations of physics, chemistry, natural history, evolutionary biology, relativity, cosmology and quantum mechanics do seem to be missing.

      --
      Blasphemy is a human right. Blasphemophobia kills.
    6. Re:Only One Half of the World Covered in This Map by Skjellifetti · · Score: 2, Funny

      I hadn't realized the gravity of Newton's interest in Alchemy. Putting Thomas Edison on a branch of the Theoretical Physics and QM Line was enlightening. Also interesting that biology does not seem to have acquired any characteristics from Lamark. Jared Diamond's work has too many facets to be relegated to just the Evolutionary Biology line. And I thought the whole project kinda bombed after I noticed that they had left off Andrei Sakharov.

      I'll stop now.

    7. Re:Only One Half of the World Covered in This Map by IndustrialComplex · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Sagan's dead and Phil has launched a pilot for hopefully a new series on Discovery channel. Eventually someone's got to take up the torch Sagan left behind.

      My point is that it's on the same 'line' as Christian Huygens, Isaac Newton, Johanes Kepler, Edwin Hubble, Galileo Galilei, and Copernicus.

      The creator of this map has some serious 'scale' issues. Perhaps if he split the Astronomer line to cover 'Astronomy-cheerleader'/got-a-show-on-Discovery. And I'm not saying that isn't important, but it's far too pop-culture for me.

      If we are going to include people like that, then I'd like to see Don Herbert (Mr. Wizard) up on the list, because a hell of a lot more people can point to him as a science role model than Phil Plait.

      --
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    8. Re:Only One Half of the World Covered in This Map by Haxamanish · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Arab and Persian scientists had the habit of citing their sources in the Middle Ages, Westerners did not do that yet. So, a lot is lost due to our (=Western) lack of decent citing in those times. For example, we say it is 100 degrees Celcius or Farenheit, but we do not say it is 20hrs 08 minutes and 59 seconds Al-Nasawi.

    9. Re:Only One Half of the World Covered in This Map by ElectricTurtle · · Score: 2, Informative

      And you don't suppose there is a reason why a site created by Americans for which most contributors are Americans written in a language most native speakers of which are American might have a bias toward American figures?

      In contrast, the Chinese language version of Wikipedia lists 120 Chinese physicists alone. I didn't add up all the categories but a rough look through I could honestly estimate about 500 for China too in the Chinese language wikipedia.

      I would suggest you educate yourself more about the contributions made to science outside of the West. It does not diminish the value of the Western contributions to know they that didn't happen in a vacuum.

      --
      I support the Slashcott and will not be reading or commenting from 2/10/14 to 2/17/14. Beta is steaming pile of dog shit
    10. Re:Only One Half of the World Covered in This Map by c0d3g33k · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Please refer to the rest of the parent thread where you will find your refutation. The cultural bias you are carrying around might be limiting how much of the larger scientific world you have been exposed to, both in the present and historically. Your view may be even more limited if you actually aren't trained in or actively practicing science, since your knowledge would only extend to what the popular media in your country presents as notable. "I haven't heard of them" does not equate to "not notable".

    11. Re:Only One Half of the World Covered in This Map by 0xdeadbeef · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I'm well aware of the language bias, I had also added up around 400 scientists from six European countries but removed it because it detracted from the real point. You're so wrapped up in the perception of Western chauvinism that you deny reality, and that reality is that modern science was born in Europe and has been lead by Europe and later the United States for almost all of its existence. Yes, Japan, China, and India are now contributing in a big way, and yes, Islamic and Chinese scholars were making progress while Europe stared at its navel for a thousand years, but it hardly compares to the explosion of innovation and discovery that began in 16th century Europe.

    12. Re:Only One Half of the World Covered in This Map by 0xdeadbeef · · Score: 3, Insightful

      "I haven't heard of them" does not equate to "not notable".

      No, that pretty much is the definition of not notable. But please, assuming my layman ignorance, list those non-Western scientists that this diagram unfairly excludes. Show us that cultural chauvinism.

    13. Re:Only One Half of the World Covered in This Map by ppanon · · Score: 2, Informative

      RMS is rational. He just has a very different set of priorities from most of the rest of the world.

      --
      Laissez lire, et laissez danser; ces deux amusements ne feront jamais de mal au monde. - Voltaire
  2. Great Bear by DIplomatic · · Score: 4, Informative

    Very similar to "The Great Bear" by Simon Patterson

  3. Re:Hey you! by WrongSizeGlass · · Score: 3, Funny

    I tried using my iPhone's Map app's "use current location" feature, but instead of placing me somewhere on that map of critical thinking and science it took me back here to /.

  4. Destination by Wowsers · · Score: 2, Funny

    Do all destinations in this map equal 42?

    --
    Take Nobody's Word For It.
  5. Re:LAST CALL! by WrongSizeGlass · · Score: 4, Funny

    Bugs Bunny pops up between George Gamow and Robert Oppenheimer. He looks left, looks right then throws down his carrot.
    Bugs: I knew it! I should've turned left at Albuquerque!

  6. Re:Omissions? by ejWasTaken · · Score: 3, Funny

    ObQuote: "Ever heard of Plato, Aristotle, Socrates?...Morons."

  7. Re:Omissions? by Coryoth · · Score: 3, Informative

    It kind of raises my hackles a bit when a document claims to list prominent personalities in the history of critical thought and leaves off such basic people as, I don't know, Plato and Aristotle.

    If you actually scan the map you'll see that it is only since the 15th century and anyone prior to that is left off. If you want to talk about omissions then try scanning along the "mathematics and computing" line, which is far more sparse than it should be. Where is Bertrand Russell, who ought to be straddling a couple of lines at least? Where are many of the mid to late 20th century mathematicians (are Grothendieck, Conway, and Wiles really all you can manage? How about Deligne, Mac Lane, Quillen, Tate, Perelman, thew list goes on...).

  8. Where are the women? by Kristian+T. · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Women always seem to say they can do anything as well as the men - so I guess women always have, and still are, choosing to not be good at science. What troubles me the most, is that even in the current generation, where the girls are fare much better in our school systems - none of that intellectual potential goes into moving the frontiers of the hard sciences.

    --
    Run with the lemmings, and you'll get your feet wet.
    1. Re:Where are the women? by theghost · · Score: 3, Interesting

      There's still a lot of cultural pressure telling women (everyone really) that the important things in life are popularity, beauty, love, and child-rearing.

      It's kind of a wonder that anyone at all goes into science these days. Maybe they should make a "Real Physicists of MIT" show.

      --
      The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.
    2. Re:Where are the women? by shiftless · · Score: 2, Interesting

      There's still a lot of cultural pressure telling women (everyone really) that the important things in life are popularity, beauty, love, and child-rearing

      Their culture isn't telling them that--it's their genes.

      Of course women can do well in science, it's just that most women are not interested in a scientific career, regardless of culture.

    3. Re:Where are the women? by radtea · · Score: 3, Interesting

      none of that intellectual potential goes into moving the frontiers of the hard sciences

      Science and engineering are both pretty sucky careers, and like men have been brought up in an environment where male self-sacrifice is held up as an ideal and "Men Last!" is a highly admired sentiment. So it only makes sense that they would be dominated by men, in the same way that jobs that kill people are dominated by men.

      Women are more than capable of doing these things, they just haven't been indoctrinated with the irrational willingness to sacrifice themselves that men have.

      --
      Blasphemy is a human right. Blasphemophobia kills.
  9. Re:Where In The World by Drakkenmensch · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Have you seen Glenn start crying live on the air as he was denouncing the families of 9/11 victims as selfish profiteers trying to exploit the victims for their own profit? I think Beck is way out there already.

  10. Obvious by gmuslera · · Score: 3, Funny

    This map have a clear message for all humanity: You need a bigger screen.

  11. That makes no sense by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    Modern science and critical thinking are OPPOSITES!

  12. Re:SHTMTOTH by RevWaldo · · Score: 2, Funny

    - (looking at the drawing) Wow, you must have a lot of free time to do something like this.
    - No, I'm usually quite busy. I just set aside half and hour every other day for a few months to work on it, and when it was nearly completed, I finished it up last Sunday night, after the century bike tour.
    - Well, that's just amazing, it must take a lot of discipline to - Wow Hey! A double rainbow! (points up, then delivers a suckerpunch and runs off.)

    .

  13. No. by blair1q · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Any map that puts Neil DeGrasse Tyson and Brian Cox at antipodes is bollocks.

    Astronomy and physics are more intimately related than most sciences, and should come out at almost the same point, not carry unsuspecting travellers to opposite ends of the map.

    Looking at the rest of it, graphically it's confusing and randomly connected rather than insightfully linked.

    Someone had a spreadsheet full of names in columns by college major and sorted by date, and they hung it on a colorful template. Which didn't fit so they wrapped the data around in a spiral, just like a ...subway system....?

    Weren't we just discussing the fact that PowerPoint makes you stupid?

  14. Re:Where In The World by ScentCone · · Score: 3, Informative

    What issues of actual substance has Glen Beck ever raised?

    Let's see ... profligate spending on enormous debt-fueled entitlement programs? Colossal bailout programs that have done none of the things promised, but which have piled onto the deficits and debt? The huge and growing intrusion of government into more and more aspects of personal life, small business, and the rest? The rather spectacular waffling by politicians of every stripe on fundamental stuff that should be crystal clear, and plainly spoken about (like, say, what our actual goals are in dealing with illegal immigration, or in energy policy, or in trade deficits).

    He's WAY too religious for my taste. But does that make harping on the fact that everyone's grandkids are going to be wearing the debt from just this year's deficits somehow insubstantial?

    --
    Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
  15. Re:Where In The World by mspohr · · Score: 3, Interesting
    But what issues of actual substance has Glen Beck ever raised?

    Those that you mention are just the radical conservative ideology rants... nothing of actual substance there.

    --
    I don't read your sig. Why are you reading mine?
  16. Some of the overlap is interesting. by JoshuaZ · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Some people are listed on multiple tracks. So for example Emmy Noether is listed for both math and physics. But other decisions seem questionable. For example, I'm not at all convinced that Einstein should be listed for both math and physics rather than just physics. Similarly Sheldon Glashow is listed as both math and physics whereas I'd put him down almost completely as physics. But Riemann only gets math and no physics? What's up with that? And there are also some odd choices to leave out. For example, G.H. Hardy is not included at all (presumably would go in both the math and natural history lines). There are also a lot of gaps in the math line in the last few years. The different lines seem to also end in slightly different times. The physics end has a fair number of fairly young physicists but the math end lacks Terry Tao for example (in fact the math line seems to be very sparse over the last few years). I'd be very curious as to how they made their various decisions for whom to include or not.