Slashdot Mirror

← Back to Stories (view on slashdot.org)

Radiohead Helps Fans Make Crowd-Sourced Live Show DVD

Posted by Soulskill on from the welcome-to-the-riaa's-hitlist dept.

Kilrah_il writes "After having a go with a Name-Your-Price album and an open-source video, Radiohead is again breaking new ground, this time with a fan-based initiative. A group of fans went to one of the band's shows in Prague, each shooting the show from a different angle. By editing it all together and adding audio from the original masters provided by the band, they have created a video of the show that is 'Strictly not for sale — By the fans for the fans,' adding, 'Please share and enjoy.' Can this be the future of live show videos?"

63 of 103 comments (clear)

  1. Nine Inch Nails did this first by longacre · · Score: 4, Informative

    ...sort of.

    NIN unofficially released 400gb of raw, professionally shot concert footage and told the internet to turn it into a DVD, resulting in Another Version of the Truth.

    --
    Airplane Photos, Airline News, Planespotting Guides
    1. Re:Nine Inch Nails did this first by hex0D · · Score: 4, Informative

      IIRC, the Beastie Boys had their fans shoot video for a live DVD as well. But they didn't give it away. Thumbs up for Radiohead! They're not really my style but they seem to have more integrity than most bands out there and I got to respect the hell out of that.

    2. Re:Nine Inch Nails did this first by digitalunity · · Score: 3, Insightful

      As Trent Reznor pointed out in an interview with Digg's Kevin Rose, this business model can only work for those who are already well established or can accept not being megastars.

      Getting traction in a market flooded with crap when you don't have advertising money is a losing battle.

      --
      You can't legislate goodness. Let each to his own destiny, by will of his freely made choices.
    3. Re:Nine Inch Nails did this first by pksyn · · Score: 1

      Exactly. The "gift" footage was released almost two years ago.

    4. Re:Nine Inch Nails did this first by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 4, Insightful

      As Trent Reznor pointed out in an interview with Digg's Kevin Rose, this business model can only work for those who are already well established or can accept not being megastars.

      I have to say - that's a good thing. I'd rather 1,000 productive artists making a living wage than 10 megastars living the life of luxury. After all, being a megastar today is mostly an artifact of the monopoly on distribution enabled by the monopoly of copyright.

      What I think is likely to ultimately happen though is that we'll just end up with another avenue to megastardom. People really seem to like to be the same as their neighbors, so I think one way or another they will tend to converge on a handful of artists in order to share in that common experience that comes from listening to the same music (and watching the same movies and reading the same books, etc).

      I just hope that whatever new avenues to megastardom become popular, that they don't have the same level of deleterious effect on society and culture that modern copyright law has.

      --
      When information is power, privacy is freedom.
    5. Re:Nine Inch Nails did this first by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      ANY 'business model' (method of promotion) for a music artist requires an established artist and/or crapload of advertising money to work. There is still yet sadly no such thing as an artist who makes it "big" via merit virally on the internet. (Die Antwoord and those treadmill guys actually had label backing and/or were signed beforehand. Don't believe the BS that they "made it" otherwise! Do a little digging if you don't believe me.)

      But the age of music superstardom has come to an end. (Unless you call American Idols and Nick/Disney kids music superstars.) Sure, we'll miss not having a new Beatles in these later days, but overall, it's probably for the best that the paradigm is shifting.

    6. Re:Nine Inch Nails did this first by dov_0 · · Score: 1

      As Trent Reznor pointed out in an interview with Digg's Kevin Rose, this business model can only work for those who are already well established or can accept not being megastars.

      Getting traction in a market flooded with crap when you don't have advertising money is a losing battle.

      I don't think Radiohead care if they are megastars or not. They just want to do what they do and they do it very well. I agree with you though that this really would not work for the general consumable background noise that the record companies make most of their profits on.

      --
      sudo mount --milk --sugar /cup/tea /mouth /etc/init.d/relax start
    7. Re:Nine Inch Nails did this first by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      It bacame this way... Originally artist sent demo tapes to radio stations and depending of the DJ's taste he either played them on the air or did not play them, but that was when I was young and beautiful in the 1950's and 1960's.

    8. Re:Nine Inch Nails did this first by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I don't think Radiohead care if they are megastars or not.

      Says the 'already-Megastars' band Radiohead.

      I think they would care if they were NOT already mega-stars and just starting out.

      Integrity is a nice aspiration, but human nature (and the desire to acquire 'wealth' and/or fame) unfortunately isn't so glib.

    9. Re:Nine Inch Nails did this first by trum4n · · Score: 1

      Daft Punk, Alive 2007.

    10. Re:Nine Inch Nails did this first by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      Yes. I downloaded the main DVD in (checks timestamp) January and it's great (if you like NIN :-)). It's available in Blu-ray, DVD, and several other formats (1080p MOV, 1080p + 5.1 audio in mkv format, etc.) with nice, high-quality audio options. You could download the mp3 and FLAC audio for months before that, and there's a ton of additional stuff available.

      So, yes, what they are doing is cool, but Radiohead is not breaking new ground here.

    11. Re:Nine Inch Nails did this first by Smauler · · Score: 1

      The Artic Monkeys had very little paid for advertising prior to their no.1 single "I bet you look good on the dancefloor". Much of what has been written about their popularity prior to their success has been exaggerated, but their success was not due to marketing primarily, at least. They signed to a small label only a couple of months prior to the single's release.

  2. bah by Simmeh · · Score: 1

    The pay-what-you-want album was new ground, this is just Creative Commons work with some official help.

    1. Re:bah by catbutt · · Score: 1

      Except the pay-what-you-want idea was kinda lame. Great for a band that already has a huge following and more money than God. And for one album, where the novelty effect makes a huge difference.

      I think it turned out to be a distraction from actually finding an intellectual property solution that worked for the long term.

      Regardless, Radiohead will always be associated for me with this most brilliant "review" of their Creep video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=It6VWk1yT5o

  3. but in argentina... by ltcdata · · Score: 5, Informative

    when they came here (argentina), last year, the tickets were VERY expensive... almost 100USD each... impossible to buy for many of the fans, like me :(

    1. Re:but in argentina... by bm_luethke · · Score: 5, Informative

      They have to make their money someplace. They really do not have many choices.

      They can have normal day jobs - which means the likely hood of seeing them outside of a 200 mile radius of their residence is quite unlikely. Not really a good option so we will cross that one off the list. There are others in the "cross off list" category too - say a life of robbing banks and such, I'll assume (though given posts here I have to recall what assuming does) that we will not go there.

      They can make it from album (or CD, or MP3, or whatever the format of the day is - I'm old enough to use that term generically) sales. We here do not like this type of thing - recorded music wants to be free and it is my Right to make all the copies I want of it. So for the most part that is not going to happen. Indeed, while I do not agree with that sentiment it *is* reality. It is too easy to copy and that makes it too expensive to purchase for most. Things like jackets, art work, and such are nice - but too many of us will take a decent MP3 over a high quality loss-less digital recording with full artwork for the latter to be a money maker without artificial legal protections. Even with said protections that models days are numbered.

      So that pretty much leaves us with live shows. Not movies of them - they end up being a version of the second method to make money but with video. It will suffer the same fate. Therefore it leaves it up to live performances. Since they are popular it is going to be expensive. Given how they sell at 100 dollars a pop the chances of you getting in at 20 dollars a pop was just as slim (if not slimmer) due to demand.

      The expense has to come in some area. Maybe you already know this - after all even knowing it I wouldn't be happy if I couldn't afford tickets to something I really wanted to see - but they have to make their money someplace. Further things like "supply and demand" mean something, even were they to drop prices to cheap and their expenses somehow magically get payed you would *still* most likely be putting frowny faces on a post for the tickets being sold out and a huge number of fans angry they didn't get to go. In that case almost no one is happy other than the small group that got cheap tickets. That isn't going to be a workable long term market either.

      It's like complaining that some Open Source company want to charge for support - umm, yea.

      --
      ------- Sorry about the spelling, I suffer from two problems. Dyslexia makes it difficult to spell well, lazy makes it
    2. Re:but in argentina... by Enleth · · Score: 4, Informative

      There is. Sample at twice the Nyquist frequency of the recorded signal and a sample size that gives a sample resolution a tad bigger than what the recording equipment is capable of registering - measurement error formulas from the theory of metrology are your friends, coefficients come from the instruction manual for the microphone. You do know that an analog microphone doesn't have an infinite recording quality, right?

      --
      This is Slashdot. Common sense is futile. You will be modded down.
    3. Re:but in argentina... by lurcher · · Score: 3, Informative

      The important fact you are missing is real world signal to noise ratio. No source has zero noise, so below a certain signal level there is no signal only noise, so as long as the bit depth is sufficient to cover the available S/N ratio, and as long as the sampling frequency is high enough to cover the frequency range of interest, and in the case of audio thats well defined, and we could up the limit a few times to be sure. So as long as thats all met, and the equipment is working as it should, then yes, loss-less recording of the world is entirely possibly.

    4. Re:but in argentina... by Avallach95 · · Score: 1

      Live shows may be a non-starter, too. Most bands have a flat (or somewhat negotiable) fee for the show and a promoter or venue hires them for the gig and sells tickets, for which they set the price, pay the advertising, accept the risk and keep bulk of the profits, if any. Where most touring bands make their money is off merchandising. There's a reason those cheap black concert shirts are $25-30. My (very limited) experience in promotions and negotiation with bands indicates that NOT having a house cut on the merch sales will result in some leeway with the performance fees or even the tech riders in some limited cases.

    5. Re:but in argentina... by Zero__Kelvin · · Score: 1

      "Sample at twice the Nyquist frequency

      Actually you need 10 tines the Nyquist to be lossless. Twice the frequency merely guarantees no aliasing.

      --
      Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
    6. Re:but in argentina... by FiloEleven · · Score: 1

      No shit. There's always a loss when you record with analog, too. You miss a bunch of inaudible frequencies. You miss the thump of powerful speakers. You miss standing in the midst of a crowd that is all tuned into the same experience. You miss being there at the moment of creation. Nobody mistakes a recording for a live performance without being keyed for it (Milli Vanilli, anyone?) and even then it isn't easy.

      A recording is not live. Whining about how very high-quality digital is worse than very high-quality analog is pointless. I guarantee that in a double-blind test you wouldn't be able to reliably pick which is which, and I further bet that you wouldn't even be able to tell the difference were the same event recorded both ways.

      --
      Your brain is not a computer.
    7. Re:but in argentina... by Zero__Kelvin · · Score: 1

      You are confusing "accurate reproduction" with lossless,

      --
      Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
    8. Re:but in argentina... by ltcdata · · Score: 1

      Yes, but they do all this "free" or "cheap" things in everywhere, but when they come here, they go to a very small place, called "Luna Park" with capacity for a maximum of 16k people, when the can go to other places like the river stadium that can hold almost 80k people, they can have cheaper tickets and earn the same quantity of money, or more. When pearl jam came here, they had tickets for $60 (almost USD 15)... and also they did 2 shows! and in a stadium!. Radiohead is like Zack de la Rocha from RATM, they speak about freedom, socialism, etc, and then you see him driving down his bentley to his mansion...

    9. Re:but in argentina... by lurcher · · Score: 1

      "For example, take multiple recordings (each at 2*Nyquist) at different time-shifts and reconstruct a higher-res signal."

      And that differs from a higher sampling rate in what way?

    10. Re:but in argentina... by DMUTPeregrine · · Score: 2, Insightful

      In addition, since all energy is quantized the momentum of the air molecules is quantized. A sufficiently sensitive recording would STILL be "digital" due to this quantization of energy. There is no analog, just very, very, very high resolution digital. Of course, that's an insanely distant limit for recordings to achieve, but ultimately true. Useless in practice.

      --
      Not a sentence!
    11. Re:but in argentina... by shermo · · Score: 1

      You're only saying that because you're not using the right type of cables on your stereo. Buy these elementium plated diamond cables, then you'll be able to tell the difference.

      --
      Insanity: voting in the same two parties over and over again and expecting different results
    12. Re:but in argentina... by Vrtigo1 · · Score: 1

      Sorry, but I disagree with some of what you've said. I agree that I'm probably not going to plunk down $10 for an album of some band that I have a passing interest in, but this is where NIN really has it right. He's built up a loyal fanbase and gives them a reason to pay. Like you mentioned, he released The Slip for free on the web, but he also had a few "for pay" options available ranging from a few bucks up to about $300 IIRC. The free version was MP3, and the $5 or $10 option got you lossless FLAC and the album art. The $300 got you an autographed vinyl or something similar, I can't remember. They sold out of the $300 packages in about two days I think. Same thing with the live videos. ThisOneIsOnUs put together the AVOTT DVD/Bluray discs and made the video available for free via torrent, but you better believe I paid the 20 or 30 bucks to get a bluray with the special album art and all of that stuff. Granted, that money didn't go back to NIN, but it illustrates my point. It's not that people are unwilling to pay, you just have to give them something worth paying for.

  4. Re:Cool .... But by Atypical+Geek · · Score: 1, Redundant

    You think Nine Inch Nails is a lame, sucky, douchebag band?

  5. I'm not a Radiohead fan... by KingSkippus · · Score: 5, Interesting

    ...but damn if stuff like this doesn't make me want to go out and buy some of their albums, even if I just give them away, to support what they're doing.

    1. Re:I'm not a Radiohead fan... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It's not like they were unable to download the songs later, and they paid what they thought the original tracks worth to begin with, so what is there to be pissed about? Somehow, they felt that value they paid for up front was diminished when the physical product cost less than their self-determined price? IIRC, the average patron paid about $8, so the preponderance of fans got a "good deal" (whatever that means in this context) anyway.

    2. Re:I'm not a Radiohead fan... by pksyn · · Score: 1, Interesting

      I wasn't one of them, I can't listen to radiohead with out getting dizzy and blacking out. But I remember reading that people were pissed b/c of the difference. Maybe they "fixed the glitch"

    3. Re:I'm not a Radiohead fan... by kainosnous · · Score: 2, Interesting

      That's exactly my reaction. I have no interest in their music. In fact, I don't currently listen to any contemporary music, and I haven't paid for music in years. However, seeing something like this almost makes me want to find a way to contribute. In reality, I'll probably never get around to sending any cash their way. Nevertheless, if I can be swayed a little, I'm sure that there are many almost fans who will get to know them and like them because of this move. I don't know if this type of marketing could work without also selling albums, concerts, etc., but I'm sure that it adds to their appeal.

      --
      There are 10 commandments: 01)Thou shalt love the Lord Thy God 10)Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.Matt22:34-40
  6. Good for them! by StuartHankins · · Score: 4, Insightful

    In today's world, it's nice to see people who "get it" and are finding new fans and publicity by doing something which hurts no one, by giving of themselves. I wish them continued success!

    1. Re:Good for them! by pushing-robot · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Yeah, I hope more bands start realizing this is the right message to give to their fans. A lot of big artists would rather tell you to go stick your head in a pig.

      --
      How can I believe you when you tell me what I don't want to hear?
  7. Re:Cool .... But by ltcdata · · Score: 2, Informative

    I don't like NIN. I like Radiohead.

  8. The first? Really? by matt-fu · · Score: 3, Interesting
    A group of fans went to one of the band's shows ... each shooting the show from a different angle.

    ...editing it all together and adding audio from the original masters provided by the band

    So this is exactly like the making of Bon Jovi's video for _Bad Medicine_, then?

    1. Re:The first? Really? by EDinWestLA · · Score: 5, Informative

      A group of fans went to one of the band's shows ... each shooting the show from a different angle.

      ...editing it all together and adding audio from the original masters provided by the band

      So this is exactly like the making of Bon Jovi's video for _Bad Medicine_, then?

      Bon Jovi didn't do it for a whole concert then give it away for free.

    2. Re:The first? Really? by matt-fu · · Score: 1

      I love Radiohead considerably more than Bon Jovi, but the difference between one song and a whole concert isn't enough to make what they did some kind of revolutionary move. The "free" thing might have been, but when you consider that in those days almost everybody who could afford MTV had a VCR (just like everyone these days who can afford the Internet has a disk drive), and the video was shown ad nauseum when it was released and continued to be played until the mid '90s happened (just like Radiohead's video will be available for download until someone decides that it shouldn't be), it is essentially the same deal.

    3. Re:The first? Really? by elrous0 · · Score: 1

      Metallica did it a year earlier with Cliff 'Em All. There is probably an even earlier precedent.

      --
      SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
  9. Re:Cool .... But by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    .... I like Radiohead.

    That is creepy.

  10. Re:Cool .... But by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    I hate them both.

    Somebody bring back Elvis as a Vampire.

  11. The Beastie Boys also did this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    with Awesome, I Fuckin' Shot that.

    Handed out cameras to fans and let them go crazy during a show in 2006. That one was sold, however.

  12. Re:Cool .... But by schon · · Score: 1

    Somebody bring back Elvis as a Vampire.

    Too late, they already did.

  13. Clear Channel by countertrolling · · Score: 5, Interesting

    They could raise a fuss...

    --
    For justice, we must go to Don Corleone
    1. Re:Clear Channel by EDinWestLA · · Score: 3, Informative

      They could raise a fuss...

      Not anymore.

      EFF Kills Bogus Clear Channel Patent

  14. Really nice job by Super+Dave+Osbourne · · Score: 1

    I like it, worth watching.

    1. Re:Really nice job by Larryish · · Score: 4, Funny

      Would buy from again, A+++plus++++++++plus++++

  15. Groundbreaking? Not so much. by adversus · · Score: 1

    http://forum.nin.com/bb/read.php?52,378166 I'm sure there's more exa

  16. I was at that show by dorpel · · Score: 2, Informative

    It is interesting to note that cameras weren't allowed in the venue. The tickets had a very distinct notice about that, and I personally witnessed at least one person who had to go back to the safety deposit booth to store her camera when the security guards found one in her bag entering the park. Of course there were thousands of cameras at the show, all of which must have been sneaked in. Seeing this great project and knowing the band's reputation, I assume it was the venue's idea to ban cameras. Maybe next time Radiohead will make sure this won't happen.

  17. Re:Cool .... But by wgoodman · · Score: 1

    the Zombie one was better.

  18. 3d aspect by sheriff_p · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I skim-read this, and was disappointed on closer reading when I realized they hadn't created a 3d montage from the video shot from all the different angles :-/

    --
    Score:-1, Funny
  19. Just like... by RotateLeftByte · · Score: 2, Interesting

    The Greatful Dead did for years.
    They sure sold millions of Albums as well as bootlegs.

    Rock on in Heaven Jerry Garcia.

    --
    I'd rather be riding my '63 Triumph T120.
  20. Re:Cool .... But by Briareos · · Score: 1

    I hate them both.

    Somebody bring back Elvis as a Vampire.

    Too late, Charlaine Harris already did...

    np: The Fall - I'm Into CB (Rebellious Jukebox Volume 3 (Disc 1))

    --

    "I'm not anti-anything, I'm anti-everything, it fits better." - Sole

  21. Huh? by Hognoxious · · Score: 2, Funny

    Please share and enjoy.

    Eh? I thought we were talking about Radiohead here.

    --
    Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    1. Re:Huh? by meringuoid · · Score: 1
      Please share and enjoy.

      Eh? I thought we were talking about Radiohead here.

      Well, if you have a problem with 'share and enjoy', I suppose you'll just have to go stick your head in a pig.

      --
      Real Daleks don't climb stairs - they level the building.
    2. Re:Huh? by meringuoid · · Score: 1

      Well, clearly you've never had a run-in with the complaints department of the Sirius Cybernetics Corporation.

      --
      Real Daleks don't climb stairs - they level the building.
    3. Re:Huh? by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      A bit obscure, maybe you should have put the link first time.

      Now let's bring the discussion to a neat conclusion by returning to the subject of paranoid androids.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
  22. Daft Punk did it too! by DJ+Particle · · Score: 1

    Except they hadn't intended to.

    At one of their "Alive 2007" concerts, they noticed many fans were filming the concert, so they asked fans to send in their concert footage. They paired segments of many different fan videos with the master audio recording of the concert to make the "Alive 2007" video album.

    Sadly, the video isn't available in the USA. Only in PAL DVD.

    1. Re:Daft Punk did it too! by synth7 · · Score: 1

      You're close, but you've got quite a few of the details wrong. Daft Punk did film a couple of their massive Alive 2007 tour dates, but were completely unhappy with the result... it was all just the same overly-slick swooping camera shots. There is at least one live video posted to youtube that comes from this footage, and it's reminiscent of every other concert video out there. The fan-made video is not "available" in Europe, as it's just as bootleg there as it is here... so you have to find a copy to download in the wilds of the internet.

      The fan-produced concert DVD (ISO of a PAL-format video of one of the several Bercy, France shows) is a bootleg (that Daft Punk has nodded at in appreciation but has never formally blessed or condemned because they can do neither without either angering their label or their fans) splicing together video from about two dozen high-quality digital cameras that were shot by various fans during the show. Read some of the commentary surrounding their opinions of the fan-made videos over on wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daft_Punk

      As a side note, it is incredibly easy to transcode the PAL DVD into NTSC. I used Nero's tools to do it, and it was no hit to the quality since the original is mostly shaky hand-cam to begin with. I've got several copies of the show on a DVD laying around here somewhere... and while you're at it you can insert some proper chapter markers for the "before the show" segment and the "encore" segment, although I went whole-hog and put in chapter markers between the songs as well.

      For those interested, the video was originally hosted all over... I got mine from theworldisdaft.com, but it appears it is no longer available there. If you want to roll the dice on the torrent world, it should be fairly easy to get your hands on the PAL ISO and then transcode it to something more Region 1 friendly.

  23. I'm Old School.... by pandrijeczko · · Score: 1

    ... I say leave it to the experts.

    I am actually a bit of a Radiohead fan and I admire the sentiment behind what they're doing - but frankly, given the choice between a paid-for live concert DVD shot by trained cameramen or a free fan-recorded "shaky-cam" version, I choose the former.

    I'm middle-aged and lazy, I'm quite happy to just hand over some money and be entertained without all this interactive "by the fans, for the fans" nonsense.

    If you're a musician or band, make a nice-sounding CD for me and I will buy it and enjoy it. I don't want to go through all the hassles of picking odd tracks off of it.

    If I like your CD enough, I may come and see you live. You sell me a ticket, I watch you play live, have a beer or two while I'm doing it, then come out the concert venue two hours later with a smile on face having had a good time.

    And if it was that good a concert and you had a proper set of cameramen doing a good job of filming it, I may even but the live DVD as a memento of that concert.

    Straightforward and simple - I hand over money, you entertain me.

    --
    Gentoo Linux - another day, another USE flag.
  24. You're thinking of NIN, not Radiohead by InvisiBill · · Score: 1

    the processed sounds of animals being put thru an industrial shredder

    It sounds like you're describing a cross between the Happiness in Slavery and unreleased March of the Pigs videos.

  25. Dizzy by ukemike · · Score: 1

    Can this be the future of live show videos?"

    Not until fans can hold cameras steady.

    --
    -- QED
  26. Maybe by masini · · Score: 1

    May not be the future of this area but certainly will be an important step. Hopefully that will be enough though popularized.dezmembrari auto