Former HP CEO Selected As Oracle Co-President

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Former HP CEO Selected As Oracle Co-President

Posted by Soulskill on Tuesday September 7, 2010 @12:14AM from the out-with-the-old-in-with-the-old dept.

theodp writes "Late on Monday, Oracle announced that ousted HP CEO Mark Hurd has joined the company as a co-president and a director. Hurd resigned from HP a month ago, after an investigation by the board into a personal relationship with a contractor turned up questionable expenses. Oracle CEO Larry Ellison, a personal friend of Hurd, criticized HP's board at the time, saying it was 'the worst personnel decision since the idiots on the Apple board fired Steve Jobs.' 'Mark did a brilliant job at HP and I expect he'll do even better at Oracle,' Ellison said in a statement Monday. 'There is no executive in the IT world with more relevant experience than Mark.' Stepping down to make room for Hurd was Charles E. Phillips Jr., who had some personal relationship issues of his own."

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I wouldn't call that personal relationship issues by Anonymous Coward · 2010-09-07 00:20 · Score: 1, Funny

Getting laid by more than one woman is not an issue :) It's a blessing.
Larry Ellison Doesn't BS by MogNuts · 2010-09-07 00:23 · Score: 5, Insightful

Hey you gotta give it to the man. Larry Ellison puts his money where his mouth is (when saying HP made the worst decision ever in firing him).
1. Re:Larry Ellison Doesn't BS by helix2301 · 2010-09-07 00:38 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  Ellison has no problem saying how he feels he is at a point in his career he says what he wants and does what he wants. Mark Hurd will do a great job at Oracle good acquisition by Larry Ellison.
  
  --
  http://www.thetechnologygeek.org
2. Re:Larry Ellison Doesn't BS by Anonymous Coward · 2010-09-07 01:10 · Score: 5, Funny
  
  ...........,,,,,,,,
  There are some extra periods and commas I had laying around. If you need more, I'm sure others have extras too.
3. Re:Larry Ellison Doesn't BS by Migala77 · 2010-09-07 01:12 · Score: 5, Interesting
  
  Mark Hurd will do a great job at Oracle good acquisition by Larry Ellison.
  According to an article at TechCrunch, he didn't do too well at HP: "Word on the street is Hurd wasn’t let go for his affair or even for his embellishment of trivial expense reports. Instead the board kicked him out because his employee approval rating was absolutely atrocious."
4. Re:Larry Ellison Doesn't BS by arivanov · 2010-09-07 01:37 · Score: 1
  
  In that case they would be the first technical company to remember the very few simple maxima:
  1. A manager delivers through his subordinates. Screw them once, twice, thrice and at the end the result is that you are no longer able to deliver.
  2. If staff is considered a "resource" than the manager is doubly so.
  To be honest, I find that difficult to believe in. If that is indeed the case in HP some deep drilling is on order. It should be possible to counteract global warming by pumping heat into the frozen depth of Hell.
  
  --
  Baker's Law: Misery no longer loves company. Nowadays it insists on it
  http://www.sigsegv.cx/
5. Re:Larry Ellison Doesn't BS by msobkow · 2010-09-07 01:47 · Score: 2, Insightful
  
  Yeah, he really put his money where his mouth is this time. Snapping up an experienced CEO and creating a new position for him just shows how much he is impressed by the guy.
  The fallout over at HP is well-deserved. You don't let someone go because of allegations -- you let them go because of convictions. Letting them go because of allegations is playing politics, not running a business.
  Personally I've thought HP/Compaq have been on the way down for some time now. While they used to build solid hardware, we've had no end of reliability problems with this past year's models. It's gotten so bad that we're actively seeking other hardware vendors.
  
  --
  I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
6. Re:Larry Ellison Doesn't BS by Surt · 2010-09-07 01:59 · Score: 4, Interesting
  
  Wait, so was it a good hire because he was let go over allegations rather than convictions, or a bad hire because he was head of HP during a period in which they 'have been on the way down for some time now'?
  
  --
  "Who is the Journal of Quantum Physics going to believe?" --Stephen Hawking
7. Re:Larry Ellison Doesn't BS by VolciMaster · 2010-09-07 02:08 · Score: 5, Interesting
  
  In that case they would be the first technical company to remember the very few simple maxima:
  1. A manager delivers through his subordinates. Screw them once, twice, thrice and at the end the result is that you are no longer able to deliver. 2. If staff is considered a "resource" than the manager is doubly so.
  To be honest, I find that difficult to believe in. If that is indeed the case in HP some deep drilling is on order. It should be possible to counteract global warming by pumping heat into the frozen depth of Hell.
  You must have never worked at HP, then - the overall employee morale is extremely low (at least in the US, Romania, Spain, and UK, where I've directly interacted (and worked) before). A complete lack of focus on customer support for enterprise products, refusal to try to keep senior engineers and support staff, and the list goes on.
  
  --
  antipaucity
8. Re:Larry Ellison Doesn't BS by daveime · 2010-09-07 02:16 · Score: 1
  
  please feel free to help yourself i also have problems with sentence construction and i have some capital letters if you think they would be useful to start sentences and proper nouns .,ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ
9. Re:Larry Ellison Doesn't BS by Mongoose+Disciple · 2010-09-07 02:18 · Score: 1
  
  The fallout over at HP is well-deserved. You don't let someone go because of allegations -- you let them go because of convictions. Letting them go because of allegations is playing politics, not running a business.
  Uh, that's what HP did.
  Hurd's sexual harassment was alleged, yes.
  Hurd stealing from the company in the form of expensing stuff for his mistress under something else, however, isn't in question.
10. Re:Larry Ellison Doesn't BS by tehcyder · 2010-09-07 02:30 · Score: 1
  
  It's easy putting your money where you mouth is if you are: (a) very rich and (b) totally egotistical to the extent you cannot imagine you are wrong.
  
  --
  To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
11. Re:Larry Ellison Doesn't BS by Anonymous Coward · 2010-09-07 02:38 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  "Doing well" is relative. He fired people and cut pay, so the company is crippled. Now the people who knew how the business and apps run either work for someone else, or don't care. The stock went up 40% under him, however. So "doing well" depends on your point of view.
  He knew how to run a company in the short term, which is what Oracle is best at. Minor improvements to a largely crappy product with expensive upgrade costs. Great business model, unless you want to retain customers. That's the Hurd way, that's the Ellison way. Neither is very good at long term planning. Ellison has gotten lucky so far, in the same way Bill Gates got lucky - he's now embedded in so many places it would be almost impossible to stop the gravy train. The product can suck donkey balls and have poor management tools, but it's stuck and will keep getting upgraded until it works.
  Same as Bill Gates, Larry has a bunch of customers using the product that don't like it very much. Or they don't know that better options exist. And Hurd's employees felt the same way - either they hate the company (low morale) or they don't know anything different. A lot of coworkers are keeping their jobs solely because people are not hiring unemployed people. They know that the first people to go are probably the scrubs, so if you retained your position you're probably worth hiring. At this point, people would rather suffer than have an employment gap in their history, so we spend the extra hours to make up for the loss of intellectual capital and manpower.
  It makes employee productivity look great, and makes the expenses of keeping the firees look unnecessary, but we're not delivering what we could deliver. And I think the HP board was starting to see that. Even a product company needs smart people to come up with ways to market and sell, and all companies need R&D, so you have to value your employees as assets. A Starbucks location with expensive rent could look like an expense to be cut, but if it keeps your profits up it's probably better to keep it. Same with expensive employees. Mark looks at numbers.
12. Re:Larry Ellison Doesn't BS by daem0n1x · 2010-09-07 02:40 · Score: 1
  
  If he was making "questionable expenses", injuring the company to please his mistress, then maybe he's not so great after all. But it seems that, among CEOs, a little nepotism is OK...
13. Re:Larry Ellison Doesn't BS by daem0n1x · 2010-09-07 02:42 · Score: 1
  
  Since when any board gives a fuck about how their employees feel like?
14. Re:Larry Ellison Doesn't BS by Anonymous Coward · 2010-09-07 02:43 · Score: 1, Insightful
  
  The fallout over at HP is well-deserved. You don't let someone go because of allegations -- you let them go because of convictions. Letting them go because of allegations is playing politics, not running a business.
  Uh, that's what HP did.
  Hurd's sexual harassment was alleged, yes.
  Hurd stealing from the company in the form of expensing stuff for his mistress under something else, however, isn't in question.
  Most people seem to forget that part, and only focusing on the harassment. To me this proves he must have a really strong stupid streak. When you earn millions of dollars, why on earth do you risk misusing 20.000$ of company money on private entertainment of a woman you like. You earn enough to pay for a few hotel and restaurant bills yourself, for crying..
15. Re:Larry Ellison Doesn't BS by mcneely.mike · 2010-09-07 04:33 · Score: 2, Funny
  
  Laying 2 women at one time, he'd have twice the periods he used to have!
  
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  soylentnews.org Go there to enjoy the people!
16. Re:Larry Ellison Doesn't BS by Mongoose+Disciple · 2010-09-07 04:37 · Score: 2, Insightful
  
  Frankly, I'm kind of amazed that Microsoft hasn't been able to make stronger inroads with SQL Server in more of the Oracle shops.
  Yeah, you can't run SQL Server on anything but Windows, but honestly, 90% of the big businesses I have personally seen using Oracle are running it on Windows anyway.
  Microsoft should seem like a big, stable, sueable-in-case-of-catastrophe kind of company to all the same kinds of managers who would be scared to death of adopting an Open Source solution even in the cases in which they're clearly superior across the board. (Otherwise I'd also be wondering why PostGre isn't eating more of Oracle's lunch, too.)
  SQL Server has ridiculously better tools included (it's telling that to work on an Oracle database you generally use someone else's tool and never the ones Oracle provides because they're expensive, terrible, or both -- in some cases you're even better off using an Open Source tool a decade old) and is a lot less expensive.
  I don't get it. Oracle DBAs managing to advocate for their own job security?
17. Re:Larry Ellison Doesn't BS by Vancorps · 2010-09-07 05:21 · Score: 1
  
  Actually Oracle DBAs advocate because few environments are as robust as the one Oracle provides. Basically Oracle sets the bar for what people think should be included in a RDBMS. SQL server has improved performance dramatically to where it is beginning to be competitive. MySQL is non-starter as it doesn't compete with Oracle. Postgresql is probably the best free alternative option containing a lot of the features that modern applications require although it still lags in performance when compared with Oracle.
  When it comes to Oracle, the DBMS is a solid product that you can rely on for mission critical applications. All their other stuff is crap which is why the DB is Oracle's bread and butter. Of course Oracle shot themselves in the foot with the 11g platform as it is resource intensive to deploy any applications for it. Oracle reports is now pretty much useless as it requires the Oracle Internet directory which almost no one wants to deploy on top of AD or OpenLDAP. Of course as always the management tools they provide are utter crap too. Even the report builder is crap and it's the only way to develop reports for Oracle reporting. For some projects we've even taken to using MS SQL to replicate data from the Oracle DB and using SQL Reporting services as they are much more friendly and actually work.
18. Re:Larry Ellison Doesn't BS by Mongoose+Disciple · 2010-09-07 05:26 · Score: 2, Insightful
  
  I'd argue two things:
  Yes, Oracle is robust, but it's a level of robustness 99% of business applications don't actually need. Basically, Oracle is perenially successful at the equivalent of selling soccer moms who want to take their kids to practice and haul groceries home formula one race cars (complete with pit crew) instead of used minivans.
  Performance-wise, at some point and in most cases, you can close the gap by throwing more/faster hardware at the problem -- and usually this is still ridiculously cheaper than the Oracle solution.
19. Re:Larry Ellison Doesn't BS by Vancorps · 2010-09-07 05:32 · Score: 1
  
  Cheers to that man, my last three server buys were custom builds because of the decline in HP quality. Doesn't help that when I actually do break down and call HP carepack I have to explain it to some guy that barely speaks English who then sends a tech who has no idea what he's doing. I always get the same tech which once had the audacity to just shut off power distro in a rack rather than just unplug the power to the server he was doing warranty work on. Ever since then I have to babysit him. I wish they would just send me the parts.
  Then of course there's this whole cost cutting measure of including non-ECC ram in server bundles so when you upgrade you have to replace the memory that came with it or buy more non-ECC ram and suffer stability. It doesn't help when they release a product too soon as well such as the Proliant DL 165 G7 which apparently had motherboard issues resulting in a recall. I had to go way up the supply chain to find out why a product that was in-stock when I ordered it took three months for it to get delivered. Dell hasn't improved at all either as I got desperate to find another server supplier. With the poor quality in most of the big dealers from IBM, HP, and Dell that pretty much leaves you with just building your own which works for small projects but isn't too practical for larger projects.
  Seems these days the big guys are doing everything in their power to stop me from buying from them. I can accept that as I have a line of guys now that assemble servers pretty quickly. Supermicro quality has remained pretty consistent.
20. Re:Larry Ellison Doesn't BS by ti1ion · 2010-09-07 05:56 · Score: 1
  
  Not really. Larry "dial an intern" Ellison hires another guy who tried to get some on the side, big deal. The article (on Slashdot, no less) dealing with the HP/Hurd issue led me to a story about executives and how often they were removed from their position due to sex scandals. Interesting read. Larry has had quite a few liaisons of his own.
21. Re:Larry Ellison Doesn't BS by Vancorps · 2010-09-07 05:57 · Score: 1
  
  While your right that the majority of applications won't use the majority of functionality Oracle is positioned as a core app and so as the company grows so too does the demand for more functionality.
  Most people I've encountered aren't interested in throwing more hardware at a problem if they don't have to. The more servers you run the more you have to maintain. The VM world has made this much much better but it's still an issue.
  Additionally Oracle licensing isn't quite as bad as you make it out to be. Oracle cost us less to deploy and maintain than Navision which is our general ledger application. Additionally we are going to deploy OpenText on Oracle as it will easily handle the millions of assets we're going to throw at it all without having to buy any new hardware.
  Your DBMS, like your core storage is very important as everything is built up around it. Buying NetApp for Tier 1 storage often makes sense much like Oracle and in both cases they are not always the best option for the money. Four straight years of zero downtime with Oracle and NetApp has recouped the costs involved at least where I work.
22. Re:Larry Ellison Doesn't BS by Caerdwyn · 2010-09-07 06:03 · Score: 1
  
  The fact is that a company's Board of Directors answers to the shareholders, not the employees. The shareholders elect... and unelect... the board. Employees don't. Right or wrong, that's reality.
  They know which side their bread is buttered on.
  And frankly, I'd MUCH rather the Board was elected by shareholders, who have a financial interest in the company's long term well-being even if it means rough times for the workers; at least the company will survive to continue to have those jobs years from now. If employees elected the board, they'd pack it full of people who would give 32-hour weeks, 50% pay raises, 8 weeks of vacation, and a termination process so lengthy and convoluted that for practical purposes you can't be fired. The company would be bankrupt in months, and somehow that would be "management's fault".
  
  --
  Everybody gets what the majority deserves.
23. Re:Larry Ellison Doesn't BS by Mongoose+Disciple · 2010-09-07 06:03 · Score: 1
  
  While your right that the majority of applications won't use the majority of functionality Oracle is positioned as a core app and so as the company grows so too does the demand for more functionality.
  And yet, most of the Fortune 500 companies I've worked for still don't have a genuine need for what Oracle brings to the table.
  I think there are legitimate cases for Oracle, but people are sold it based on the theory that they will probably have one of those cases sooner or later, while my experience suggests they most likely won't. It's like living a few hundred miles from the coast and buying tsunami insurance.
  Most people I've encountered aren't interested in throwing more hardware at a problem if they don't have to. The more servers you run the more you have to maintain.
  Alternately, if you buy Oracle you tend to need more DBAs. It's a lot cheaper to hire an extra IT guy than it is to triple your number of DBAs. (I can't make you an argument for why an Oracle installation requires that many more DBAs, I'm just saying that if you compare two similar businesses and one is an Oracle shop, they will always, always, always have many more DBAs.)
  Four straight years of zero downtime with Oracle and NetApp has recouped the costs involved at least where I work.
  Would you like to buy this rock? It keeps tigers away.
  What evidence do you have that a PostGre-based solution (for example) wouldn't have had similar uptime?
24. Re:Larry Ellison Doesn't BS by Chucky_M · 2010-09-07 06:22 · Score: 1
  
  Frankly, I'm kind of amazed that Microsoft hasn't been able to make stronger inroads with SQL Server in more of the Oracle shops.
  This is because nobody trusts them, stability in the business world is very important. In today's world customer affecting is the buzz word, downtime, negative impact or data loss are all very bad publicity and this can damage a companies earnings quite significantly and many customers will vote with their feet in the higher tech areas.
  
  Yeah, you can't run SQL Server on anything but Windows, but honestly, 90% of the big businesses I have personally seen using Oracle are running it on Windows anyway.
  You and I have clearly seen very different BIG businesses, I would say out of 300+ databases my current company operate less than 5 are SQL Server databases.
  
  Microsoft should seem like a big, stable, sueable-in-case-of-catastrophe kind of company to all the same kinds of managers who would be scared to death of adopting an Open Source solution even in the cases in which they're clearly superior across the board.
  Certainly Microsoft are not going anywhere but that is the end of their stability assurance, SQL Server is considered a toy, if that be accurate or no I am not one to say but it is this perception that they are fighting and loosing.
  
  SQL Server has ridiculously better tools included (it's telling that to work on an Oracle database you generally use someone else's tool and never the ones Oracle provides because they're expensive, terrible, or both -- in some cases you're even better off using an Open Source tool a decade old) and is a lot less expensive.
  Oracle comes packaged with many detailed diagnostic tools not everything has or requires fancy GUI's, the tools available are good, now without someone who knows how to use them (i.e. a good DBA) to avoid, identify or repair issues then for sure you are in trouble. Price is always important in this world but in larger shops at least in the range you refer, a broken product can simply make or break and if this happens because your DBA doesn't have a clue what he is doing that can be an expensive mistake but has nothing to do with the tools at his/her disposal.
  
  I don't get it. Oracle DBAs managing to advocate for their own job security?
  I started out as a sysadmin but having been a full time Oracle DBA for over a decade now and still enjoying my job it might be that I tend to be a little protective... maybe... possibly =)
25. Re:Larry Ellison Doesn't BS by Vancorps · 2010-09-07 06:33 · Score: 1
  
  My evidence is from the fact that I don't just use Oracle, I also use MS SQL and MySQL. PostGresql from what I've read is quite stable but lacks in performance.
  Also, in my experience people don't necessarily buy Oracle for the functionality as MS SQL usually wins on useful and accessible feature-sets. They buy Oracle because they can get it up and running and it has a habit of staying that way. No transaction logs ballooning for no apparent reason, I'm looking at you MSSQL. I'm the only DBA for the organization which is albeit a small business with only about 70-150 employees depending on the time of year. The reality is that we had and have storage issues with our other tiers while NetApp has remained rock solid.
  I've never been a believer in putting all your eggs in one basket and while I won't begrudge people for not going the Oracle route they should realize their are trade-offs.
  Also, as for uptime, Postgres has weak replication support which has been maturing nicely but it still a few generations behind both MSSQL and Oracle. Most HA solutions I've seen for it involve middleware managing the workload which is pretty sloppy. I don't disparage Postres as much as I do the rest of the choices out there. For a long time it was poor management tools holding it back. Recently it became competitive but has a long history to fight against for adoption.
26. Re:Larry Ellison Doesn't BS by Mongoose+Disciple · 2010-09-07 06:37 · Score: 1
  
  This is because nobody trusts them, stability in the business world is very important. In today's world customer affecting is the buzz word, downtime, negative impact or data loss are all very bad publicity and this can damage a companies earnings quite significantly and many customers will vote with their feet in the higher tech areas.
  Which is why roughly 100% of the Fortune 500 are running Windows and Office? Sorry, that argument doesn't hold water.
  You and I have clearly seen very different BIG businesses, I would say out of 300+ databases my current company operate less than 5 are SQL Server databases.
  Well, two things:
  1) You also say that you're an Oracle DBA, so uh... yeah, not that surprising that you tend to be at businesses that are running Oracle.
  2) What you said there has absolutely nothing to do with the point you're responding to, which was: these companies are mostly running Windows for everything but NOT running SQL Server.
  Oracle comes packaged with many detailed diagnostic tools not everything has or requires fancy GUI's, the tools available are good, now without someone who knows how to use them (i.e. a good DBA) to avoid, identify or repair issues then for sure you are in trouble.
  Basically I'm telling you that Oracle's tools (whether or not they're good enough for your purpose) are beyond crap compared to everyone else's tools. Free databases (much less SQL Server) shipped with better tools than Oracle's in the 1900s. The people who developed them should be ashamed and forced to wear dunce caps or scarlet letters or some other mark of shame in public. It is not an exaggeration to say they're ten years behind the state of the art. In technology, that's more than a lifetime.
27. Re:Larry Ellison Doesn't BS by UnknowingFool · 2010-09-07 06:48 · Score: 1
  Having worked in environments with both Oracle and MS SQL here are some of the personal reasons I know why Oracle is used more:
  
  Oracle runs on multiple platforms. As you pointed out MS SQL only runs on Windows. Businesses tend to deploy the same environment for production, QA, and development, but they might get away with running Oracle on Windows for development and QA only. If a company does not run mission critical applications on Windows (which is many of them), they're not going to run MS SQL. Period.
  Yes MS SQL has better tools, but that also lowers the bar. There are many things that Oracle could do to make managing it easier however, there are some decisions that an admin should make. Unfortunately MS SQL tends to hide these things. For example, a DBA should keep up with how much diskspace each database is taking. Warnings will show up on an Oracle DB when it reaches the limit. MS SQL just allows the DB to grow automatically. That seems more management friendly until the entire disk fills up (with no warning). Then it's more complicated to solve.
  MS Support isn't great. From my experience (and your mileage may vary), though we had Enterprise Support, they were often slow to respond. It would sometimes take a week for them to acknowledge that they received and understood our problems. And often they offered no real solution. For example, one night the SQL Server went down for no reason. The server didn't go down, but the SQL server stopped responding until we rebooted the whole server. When I left I don't think they ever figured out why it would randomly shut down.
  MS SQL is newer. MS SQL is newer and hasn't quite earned the reputation of being robust, stable, and scaleable. Not that it isn't but it requires big companies to deploy it and sing the praises. But big companies are risk adverse. This is a chicken and egg problem.
  
  Microsoft should seem like a big, stable, sueable-in-case-of-catastrophe kind of company to all the same kinds of managers who would be scared to death of adopting an Open Source solution even in the cases in which they're clearly superior across the board. (Otherwise I'd also be wondering why PostGre isn't eating more of Oracle's lunch, too.)
  One of the smartest moves Oracle did was to deploy on Linux. Over the last decade or so, companies are willing to go to Linux over proprietary Unix. But they are not so willing to move from Unix to Windows. With Linux they are able to use commodity hardware and cheaper OS software. Meanwhile, Windows used to be considered cheaper to Unix but by the time each little service or module is added, it is very expensive to buy and that doesn't include support. With Oracle on Linux, they get some security (as well as keeping any old Oracle implementations).
  --
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28. Re:Larry Ellison Doesn't BS by MrSenile · 2010-09-07 06:54 · Score: 2, Funny
  
  Dealing with a multi woman relationship, I doubt he'll need the extra periods.
29. Re:Larry Ellison Doesn't BS by guruevi · 2010-09-07 07:13 · Score: 1
  
  One of the reasons is indeed the Oracle DBA's not knowing anything else. But SQL Server is not the end-all of database solutions. I would classify it under Oracle and PostgreSQL. It's not only ridiculously expensive once you get to have more than one SQL Server machine or if you have a bunch of clients connecting to it but the licensing model is atrocious (you'll need a lawyer to figure out what it means) and once it goes towards maxing out your resources it collapses horribly onto itself (in part also because of the Windows underlying platform). It's easy to work with if you have a mediocre DBA or a mixed group of junior and senior DBA's but a well-maintained Oracle will beat the crap out of SQL Server and require less human resources.
  
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30. Re:Larry Ellison Doesn't BS by Mongoose+Disciple · 2010-09-07 07:25 · Score: 1
  
  I'll give you this without a fight:
  a well-maintained Oracle will beat the crap out of SQL Server
  but I have never seen a real-world example in which this was even remotely true:
  and require less human resources.
  I've seen many small-midsize companies in which one DBA covered all of the company's MySQL or PostGre or SQL Server or even Sybase databases. I've never seen a company running Oracle out of dozens I've encountered in my career -- even very small companies -- on less than 3 Oracle DBAs, and usually a lot more. To what degree this is Oracle's fault and to what degree it's the culture of Oracle DBAs to insist on owning tasks that DBAs let developers or others cover in any other environment is a subject for discussion, but (to my mind) that you're going to end up with a lot more DBAs if you run Oracle is a settled issue.
31. Re:Larry Ellison Doesn't BS by Cheeko · 2010-09-07 08:12 · Score: 1
  
  I would be one of those senior engineers who jumped ship about 2 years ago.
  Operational efficiency is great and all, and I cashed out a bunch as the stock price rose, but it was a MISERABLE place to work after a while. Every day wondering if your division (regardless of your personal performance) would be axed in the name of efficiency. Seeing the best and brightest in the various teams you interact with leaving in droves (sales, marketing, engineering that I knew). Seeing best in breed products axed in favor of legacy partnerships.
  It was refreshing after Carly to see the company start to perform, but after 2 years it began to become obvious to a lot of folks that this would be the way of life under Hurd.
  There needs to be a balance between keeping your best employees happy and driving profitability. The brain drain has been pretty severe speaking to old coworkers. You wonder how long before the drain impacts their innovation and development. The company still does plenty right (and why I still hold a bunch of stock), but I don't think it takes Hurd to run the ship as it stands now.
32. Re:Larry Ellison Doesn't BS by turgid · 2010-09-07 08:24 · Score: 1
  
  Lay lady, lay,
  Lay me an egg for breakfast.
  Stay lady, stay,
  Cook me the egg for breakfast.
  Do I win the internet? Can I also get to be a 1960s hippy?
  
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33. Re:Larry Ellison Doesn't BS by flex941 · 2010-09-07 08:27 · Score: 1
  
  And of course there could be no middle-ground.
34. Re:Larry Ellison Doesn't BS by daem0n1x · 2010-09-07 09:45 · Score: 1
  
  You are right, employees are so incredibly stupid that they only think about bankrupting the company. After all, there are new jobs waiting around everywhere.
  Fortunately there is the shareholder, that superior human being, whose decisions are always right, like hiring overpaid CEOs that make shares go up in the short term by cutting R&D and other useless expenses. Before shit hits the fan, the shareholder will have cashed a huge sum of money selling his stock and doesn't give a rat's ass for the future of the company. Neither the CEO, of course. He's fired receiving a few tenths of millions and calls one of his pals to get a new job.
  I'm glad we have these nice people to take care of our jobs, or else the economy would be in deep shit.
35. Re:Larry Ellison Doesn't BS by ta+bu+shi+da+yu · 2010-09-07 10:34 · Score: 1
  
  For example, a DBA should keep up with how much diskspace each database is taking. Warnings will show up on an Oracle DB when it reaches the limit. MS SQL just allows the DB to grow automatically. That seems more management friendly until the entire disk fills up (with no warning). Then it's more complicated to solve.
  You're doing it wrong.
  MS Support isn't great. From my experience (and your mileage may vary), though we had Enterprise Support, they were often slow to respond. It would sometimes take a week for them to acknowledge that they received and understood our problems. And often they offered no real solution. For example, one night the SQL Server went down for no reason. The server didn't go down, but the SQL server stopped responding until we rebooted the whole server. When I left I don't think they ever figured out why it would randomly shut down.
  Really? We logged a ticket with Oracle about a problem with their 10g OLEDB components, where it was giving the wrong DefinedSize for NCHARs. Initially they said it wasn't a problem, but 18 months later when my manager escalated the issue (on their advise!) they finally admitted they had an issue. Sadly, we were told that they couldn't implement the fix in 10g because it was outside of their fix lifecycle. But remember: we reported the issue 18 months ago, when 11g had only been on the market for a short time.
  I've seen nothing but bad support from Oracle, and I'm not the only one. Oracle support sucks balls. MS Support, on the other hand, has been nothing but excellent for us when we have issues with SQL Server.
  
  --
  XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
36. Re:Larry Ellison Doesn't BS by MogNuts · 2010-09-08 00:33 · Score: 1
  
  This is a difficult issue. Yes I'm sure a lot of execs used their position, but don't put it past the millions of women who have used and extorted execs/celebrities/rich people for money. I would venture to say this day and age, in this realm, even if you live a squeaky clean life, you'll be accused of something so that you'll settle in court and they'll extort even a few million from you.
37. Re:Larry Ellison Doesn't BS by VolciMaster · 2010-09-09 01:32 · Score: 1
  
  And I saw them awe or "encourage" most of the acquisitionees from the company I worked-for when we were bought in 2007. By now, 60-70% of them have left.
  
  --
  antipaucity
At Oracle you get fired by Compaqt · 2010-09-07 00:27 · Score: 2, Funny

for *not* sexually harassing!

--
I'm not a lawyer, but I play one on the Internet. Blog
1. Re:At Oracle you get fired by Anonymous Coward · 2010-09-07 00:47 · Score: 5, Funny
  
  I thought it was only for failing to "COMMIT" your "TRANSACTION"?
2. Re:At Oracle you get fired by Migala77 · 2010-09-07 00:57 · Score: 1
  
  No NULLs allowed in their relational model. But they do like their strings, as long as they are of limited size.
3. Re:At Oracle you get fired by aliquis · 2010-09-07 01:04 · Score: 1
  
  Don't BS.
  Oracle/Ellison would be just as upset if you did your commits on two different databases.
I'm torn on this one....... by scosco62 · 2010-09-07 00:30 · Score: 5, Insightful

Is this a case of a "good old boys" club, where one of the insiders takes care of his buddy -or- He believe that Hurd is really that good.......sounds like the latter... This contractor thing is idiotic, both that a guy in such a position would get himself into such a ridiculous position - and that the board would make a big deal about it. I suspect that if they really wanted to keep him .... the whole thing would have just "gone away".... so there's some subtext here, somewhere.
1. Re:I'm torn on this one....... by Kjella · 2010-09-07 01:10 · Score: 1
  
  I don't think being a good executive in some ways and thinking too much with your dick in other ways is mutually exclusive. It might be just be business in that Ellison sees him on "fire sale" and figure the PR hit is worth it...
  
  --
  Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
Long Live Crony Capitalism by Anonymous Coward · 2010-09-07 00:31 · Score: 4, Insightful

Can't seem to login.
Looks like if you are well connected you can get away with anything and land up plum jobs.
Yes I know Mark Hurd did not break any law and he only cheated on his expense reports (That too I am sure was a mistake by his assistants).
We as a society seem to be setting fine examples of acceptable behavior.
1. Re:Long Live Crony Capitalism by Overzeetop · 2010-09-07 00:35 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  As always - it's not what you know, it's who you know.
  
  --
  Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
2. Re:Long Live Crony Capitalism by amentajo · 2010-09-07 01:15 · Score: 3, Informative
  
  As always - it's not who you know, it's whom you know.
3. Re:Long Live Crony Capitalism by Abcd1234 · 2010-09-07 02:26 · Score: 1
  
  Anyone who's heard of "networking" understands this. Why should top echelon CEOs be any different than Joe programmer getting a job through a friend of his?
4. Re:Long Live Crony Capitalism by Arthur+Grumbine · 2010-09-07 02:29 · Score: 1
  
  Can't seem to login.
  Looks like if you are well connected you can get away with anything and land up plum jobs.
  Yes I know Mark Hurd did not break any law and he only cheated on his expense reports (That too I am sure was a mistake by his assistants).
  We as a society seem to be setting fine examples of acceptable behavior.
  Being "well-connected" is practically part of the job description for a Fortune 500 CEO. Not because of crony-ism, but because of the need to leverage those relationships for the good of your company. So if Mark Hurd is "well-connected", that would mean that he actually is more valuable as CEO to a company like Oracle, especially because his connections are probably especially relevant to Oracle's industry. I'm guessing that "connections" for a CEO are like languages for a programmer - the more you have under your belt, the more tools you have to face a given problem, the more value you bring to the position...
  
  --
  Now that I think about it, I'm pretty sure everything I just said is completely wrong.
5. Re:Long Live Crony Capitalism by tehcyder · 2010-09-07 02:35 · Score: 2, Interesting
  
  Yes I know Mark Hurd did not break any law and he only cheated on his expense reports
  
  Where I come from (UK) "false accounting" is a criminal offence; also any normal employee would be fired for fiddling their expenses, on principle.
  
  --
  To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
6. Re:Long Live Crony Capitalism by Mongoose+Disciple · 2010-09-07 02:52 · Score: 4, Funny
  
  So if Mark Hurd is "well-connected", that would mean that he actually is more valuable as CEO to a company like Oracle, especially because his connections are probably especially relevant to Oracle's industry.
  No kidding. You can't really sell Oracle, Peoplesoft, etc. on actual merit or return on investment, so connections are at a serious premium.
7. Re:Long Live Crony Capitalism by ClosedSource · 2010-09-07 03:19 · Score: 1
  
  Being "well-connected" is the reason that CEOs are grossly overpaid to the determent of their companies and their shareholders.
8. Re:Long Live Crony Capitalism by ClosedSource · 2010-09-07 03:21 · Score: 1
  
  Unlike Joe, CEOs could put policies in place to diminish Crony practices.
9. Re:Long Live Crony Capitalism by dunezone · 2010-09-07 03:41 · Score: 1
  
  "it's not what you know, its who knows you"
10. Re:Long Live Crony Capitalism by amentajo · 2010-09-07 04:43 · Score: 1
  
  Common use/misuse aside...
  If I know you, then you're the person whom I know.
  If you know that I know you, then you're the person who knows whom I know.
  If it can be replaced by "him/her", then it's "whom".
  If it can be replaced by "he/she", then it's "who".
11. Re:Long Live Crony Capitalism by butlerm · 2010-09-07 06:45 · Score: 1
  
  Mark Hurd did not break any law and he only cheated on his expense reports
  That is called fraud. It is more than enough to get people sent to jail in some cases.
12. Re:Long Live Crony Capitalism by Fastball · 2010-09-07 07:36 · Score: 1
  
  Looks like if you are well connected you can get away with anything and land up plum jobs.
  Or, you know, just run for the U.S. Senate.
Fake Steve has already covered this one by Eternal+Vigilance · 2010-09-07 00:36 · Score: 3, Informative

It's the Three Stooges of executive sexual harassment.

"Imagine those three on a business trip to, I don't know, Thailand."

"Hey Mark! I'm tryin' to think but nothin' happens! Nyuk nyuk nyuk."
1. Re:Fake Steve has already covered this one by bay43270 · 2010-09-07 01:29 · Score: 1
  
  It's still just two stooges. Chuck Philips is leaving.
Re:I wouldn't call that personal relationship issu by 605dave · 2010-09-07 00:48 · Score: 1

It can be. But as I recently said to a friend, two women equals twice the drama, headaches, and all the rest.

--
Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a difficult battle. - Plato
No Ethics - No Problem! by nickmalthus · 2010-09-07 00:49 · Score: 1

Corporate cronyism at it's finest.

--
If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be-T J
1. Re:No Ethics - No Problem! by nomad-9 · 2010-09-07 01:26 · Score: 1
  
  Corporate cronyism at it's finest.
  Nope. "Cronyism" is putting friends in positions of authority, regardless of their qualifications.
  Hurd's record as a CEO speaks for itself, like HP becoming number one in computers sales, and having its market share for printers increase significantly.
  He is also known for aggressive cost-cutting with massive layoffs, but that's actually another positive trait in a CEO.
2. Re:No Ethics - No Problem! by Mongoose+Disciple · 2010-09-07 02:54 · Score: 3, Interesting
  
  He is also known for aggressive cost-cutting with massive layoffs, but that's actually another positive trait in a CEO.
  Unless, of course, you're making your numbers for the quarter/year look good at the cost of cutting resources you can't easily replace that you'll need for long-term success.
  A number of people have alleged this is the case with Hurd; I don't know enough to say for sure either way.
3. Re:No Ethics - No Problem! by ClosedSource · 2010-09-07 03:13 · Score: 1
  
  Cronyism also includes creating a job specifically for a buddy.
4. Re:No Ethics - No Problem! by nomad-9 · 2010-09-07 19:37 · Score: 1
  
  He is also known for aggressive cost-cutting with massive layoffs, but that's actually another positive trait in a CEO.
  Unless, of course, you're making your numbers for the quarter/year look good at the cost of cutting resources you can't easily replace that you'll need for long-term success.
  A number of people have alleged this is the case with Hurd; I don't know enough to say for sure either way.
  Looking at the way companies are run today, I'm not sure long-term success is sought as much as short-term ones. Making the quarter/year books look good & investors happy & stocks rise, even if it is just for a while, seems good enough to qualify for a "Top Gun CEO" nomination.
Hmm. by Anonymous Coward · 2010-09-07 00:51 · Score: 2, Insightful

That will go down fantastically well with Oracle's female employees I suspect.
1. Re:Hmm. by Critical+Facilities · 2010-09-07 01:12 · Score: 1
  
  That will go down fantastically well with Oracle's female employees I suspect.
  Especially this one.
2. Re:Hmm. by Locke2005 · 2010-09-07 04:57 · Score: 1
  
  Larry has been sued for sexual harassment by more than one of his personal secretaries. Any female employees that had a problem with sexual harassment would have left a long time ago!
  
  --
  I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
Experience counts! by Anonymous Coward · 2010-09-07 00:53 · Score: 4, Funny

Well at least Mark Hurd has demonstrated experience screwing people. With the way Oracle has been behaving of late (Java, OpenSolaris) this will probably be a great job asset....
I feel bad for the EX SUN employees by Anonymous Coward · 2010-09-07 00:55 · Score: 5, Interesting

Hurd drove all of the R&D and creativity out of HP. As an HPer we competed with SUN alot but I always thought they had some great tech just not the ability to make money off of it. Hurd will just cut\cut\cut until there is nothing left. Guess it's not really a surprise as my guess Larry is just interested in buiolding massive Oracle solution on his own high margin hardware and nothing else....
Thank god I survived the Hurd years at HP. I just hope we don't screw it up with another Hurd like CEO.
1. Re:I feel bad for the EX SUN employees by otis+wildflower · 2010-09-07 01:12 · Score: 1
  
  Yeah, from what I've heard from Oracle folks, seems like Hurd will be a "good fit", at least for the executive tier.
  Workers and customers? Not so much.
  It's actually pretty damn incestuous, given how in-bed-with-each-other HP and Oracle (DB, middleware, Peoplesoft) are, but if Ora is looking to keep all the money, I guess this is part of what you do to do that..
2. Re:I feel bad for the EX SUN employees by the_humeister · 2010-09-07 03:08 · Score: 2, Interesting
  
  Who do you think was worse: Fiorina or Hurd?
3. Re:I feel bad for the EX SUN employees by MarkRose · 2010-09-07 03:19 · Score: 1
  
  If you're not happy with the way Hurd works, download the source code and fork it.
  
  --
  Be relentless!
4. Re:I feel bad for the EX SUN employees by Locke2005 · 2010-09-07 05:02 · Score: 1
  
  A change in CEO does not mean a change in direction. Did you notice any change in direction when Fiorina was replaced by Hurd? Guess what, there won't be any change in direction with Hurd's successor either. The policies are put in place by the Board of Directors and the President carries them out. Then the Board blames the President for the bad policies, replaces the President, and the cycle repeats. Any real change in direction would require a change in the Board. Note that any remaining Hewletts or Packards were kicked off the Board a long time ago.
  
  --
  I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
5. Re:I feel bad for the EX SUN employees by Cheeko · 2010-09-07 08:24 · Score: 1
  
  Carly had the ability to at least make you believe every now and then there was progress in the right direction. My stock and compensation tells me Carly was worse, my morale tells me Hurd was far worse.
  I guess at least under Hurd the shareholder me benefited, but I could have been just as invested without having to put up with the horrid work environment in the process.
  I can't speak for the above since it sounds like he/she still works at HP, but 2 years of Hurd was enough for me, I cut my shares and ran. Thanked him for the profit and gave him the finger on the way out the door. Moving to a start-up with bright energetic folks in all corners of the company has been an amazing breath of fresh air after my last few years at HP. Since I left I've kept in touch with a number of old workers and its amazing how the youngest and best engineers (not mutually exclusive) have been leaving.
  As the above poster mentioned I think a lot more would be leaving if not for A) the economy and B) people just hanging on till the next early retirement offer.
Some background to all this by AHuxley · 2010-09-07 00:58 · Score: 1

Animated news version in ~2 mins from an Taiwanese animation studio.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BC5Btn9jklI
Some care if played at work.

--
Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
Crony Despotism in Action by Anonymous Coward · 2010-09-07 01:00 · Score: 1

Rule number one of crony despotism, never appoint anyone below you that has any where near enough brains to take your job. Ellison knows this guy is too stupid for his own good, perfect number two for Ellison, no threat! Plus the guy is desperate, so he will provide grade A brown nosing.
1. Re:Crony Despotism in Action by Sulphur · 2010-09-07 01:18 · Score: 1
  
  Duke Nukem Forever back in development. The Hurd arrives.
  Two out of three?
2. Re:Crony Despotism in Action by gtall · 2010-09-07 03:20 · Score: 1
  
  Plus the guy is desperate? How so, he left with a golden parachute. He could not work a day longer in his life and still have millions to play with.
3. Re:Crony Despotism in Action by Xuranova · 2010-09-07 04:04 · Score: 1
  
  I can't even imagine what would have to fall into place so there would be even the most remote possibility that Ellison's job could ever be taken from him. I'm pretty sure he can have whoever he wants as his #2 and his job will be secure until he wants to give it up and then he'll probably pick his own successor.
  
  --
  "There is no real right or wrong, just what the majority accepts at the time."
The price of bigamy by zoomshorts · 2010-09-07 01:10 · Score: 1, Insightful

Multiple mother-in-laws.
1. Re:The price of bigamy by ta+bu+shi+da+yu · 2010-09-07 01:24 · Score: 2, Funny
  
  Getting laid by multiple mother-in-laws is really pretty twisted.
  
  --
  XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
2. Re:The price of bigamy by treeves · 2010-09-07 06:55 · Score: 1
  
  Mothers-in-law.
  Just sayin'.
  
  --
  ...the future crusty old bastards are already drinking the Kool-Aid.
What I don't understand about Mark Hurd by Ukab+the+Great · 2010-09-07 01:35 · Score: 1

If you're a rich and powerful executive, I'd have thought you'd have inappropriate relationships with 20-something interns, not 40-something former porn stars.
1. Re:What I don't understand about Mark Hurd by AHuxley · 2010-09-07 01:52 · Score: 1
  
  Depends on the kind of networking. 40-something could have many years of contacts with people of interest and power in gov, .coms, .mil. A "Romeo Spy" of your very own.
  A 20-something bring stamina and her simple dreams of power and wealth.
  It gets boring fast. A 40-something brings perspective and insight with much experience.
  
  --
  Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
2. Re:What I don't understand about Mark Hurd by tehcyder · 2010-09-07 02:41 · Score: 1
  
  If you're a rich and powerful executive, I'd have thought you'd have inappropriate relationships with 20-something interns, not 40-something former porn stars.
  
  I see you've got the makings of a proper woman-hating, eg0-inflated sociopath, I wish you well in your future business career.
  
  --
  To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
3. Re:What I don't understand about Mark Hurd by daem0n1x · 2010-09-07 03:16 · Score: 1
  
  Well, the latter have a profound and varied experience that the former lacks...
4. Re:What I don't understand about Mark Hurd by Locke2005 · 2010-09-07 05:04 · Score: 1
  
  To say nothing of their ability to suck a golf ball through a garden hose!
  
  --
  I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
Well, yes, gotta hand it to Larry by Moraelin · 2010-09-07 01:39 · Score: 4, Interesting

Well, yes, you gotta hand it to Larry. Whether it's using his money to basically bully those criticizing a pal for his defense of overt sexual discrimination (see, eg, http://www.boston.com/news/education/higher/articles/2006/06/28/oracles_ceo_cancels_115m_gift_to_harvard/), or rescuing a pal which was likely actually ditched for being an asshole all around and driving employee morale to new lows, it's up to Larry to don his superhero cape and come to the defense of pricks, assholes and bigots everywhere. Making the world safer for well-connected sociopaths and the ol' boys' club, one person at a time. You can practically imagine him flying away from a crime scene, wind blowing in his cape, with starry eyed housewives going, "Thank YOU Captain Asshole! Whatever would we have done without you?" ;)

--
A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
1. Re:Well, yes, gotta hand it to Larry by Mongoose+Disciple · 2010-09-07 02:25 · Score: 1
  
  No kidding.
  If Ellison isn't king of the douchebags, I'm not sure who would be. I weep for Java in his hands.
2. Re:Well, yes, gotta hand it to Larry by mister_playboy · 2010-09-07 04:36 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  Now please explain why, again assuming two candidates seem equally capable of doing the job, you would _ever_ pick a female over a male.
  Boobs. :)
  
  --
  Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law ::: Love is the law, love under will
So good in which way? by Moraelin · 2010-09-07 02:08 · Score: 1

Hurd has been so good in which way? He managed to squeeze a short term spike in profits by basically nuking the R&D budget. Essentially he's been selling the seed corn, to look like he's getting more results fast.
Exactly how would that make him the right guy for Oracle? I'm open to the possibility that that might even be the case, but please explain how. Exactly what of all he's done at HP would tip Oracle off that he's probably the right guy to recruit for the top?

--
A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
1. Re:So good in which way? by gtall · 2010-09-07 03:18 · Score: 2, Insightful
  
  Well, databases are exactly a hot innovation area any longer. Oracle has been squeezing profits out by hook and crook for years. Maybe Hurd is just the guy to carry on that fine tradition. He knows how to run a tight ship as long as the ship is not going anywhere in particular.
Gotta love it by Anonymous Coward · 2010-09-07 02:46 · Score: 4, Insightful

He gets a cushy job in a month while good people I used to work with are still unemployed over a year later and the rest of us still stupid enough to work for HP are pulling more work load with the original (temporary - yeah right) pay cuts over us. I can barely afford to keep my children fed driving a 10+ year vehicle with over 150k miles on it so HP has enough money to buy up large companies. "Gotta tighten our belts!" - You can't afford to pay the employees what they are worth - but you can spend billions buying up companies. Remember this HP. because once the economy starts in an upswing the people you have left will leave. I would not want to own any piece of this company
Win-Win! by ClosedSource · 2010-09-07 03:08 · Score: 1

This action raised the average executive IQ at both companies!
Doesn't Oracle know... by StuartHankins · 2010-09-07 03:19 · Score: 5, Funny

you can't polish a Hurd?
Revisionist history, eh? by Moraelin · 2010-09-07 06:38 · Score: 1

I'll tell you what you'd do without him: be just another ignorant plant without a way for your web app to store data on a highly available database cluster (think MySQL can do it? You don't have a clue.)
Is Larry an asshole? Absolutely! Computer industry needs assholes, because nobody else knows what they are doing. And it shows. Especially here on slashdot.
1. Ah, how cute... an idiot who thinks Oracle is the first or last to implement that. That's about as cute as the idiots who think MS invented the GUI. Mommy, can we keep him?
Ever heard of someone called IBM? Yeah, they only invented SQL, have a more standard implementation than Oracle ever had, it does clusters just fine, and it runs on everything from PCs to mainframes. And it shows up in pretty much all industry benchmarks fighting for first place with Oracle for first place.
So, please. If _you_ are too stupid to know there are more alternatives than Oracle and MySQL, it's your shortcoming not mine. _You_ don't have a clue.
2. I'm not sure I even follow your broken logic. His company making a successful product excuses his being an asshole... how?`Even as defenses of amorality go, that's got to be the non sequitur of the year.
If a competent doctor turned out to be Jack The Ripper, would the former excuse the later? How and in what way?

--
A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
Hurd's Affinity for Sun Fire by overheardinpdx · 2010-09-07 06:44 · Score: 2, Funny

Hurd went on to describe his affinity for Oracle's current line of hadware products. "Honestly, I had some trouble selling HP's 'Integrity' severs with a straight face," said Hurd. "But when it comes to staffing, I intend on turning 'Sun Fire' into a friggin verb."