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PA's Dept. of Homeland Security Shared Oil-Shale Protester Info With Companies
Western Pennsylvania's shale oil deposits have lately attracted interest not only from companies who have been extracting some of that oil, but from locals who object to what they perceive as sharp dealing by the companies involved, favorable treatment by the state government, and environmental degradation as a result of the extraction. Some of the most visible of those protesters, it turns out, have been tracked (including "Web traffic") by Pennsylvania's own Homeland Security department, and that information about them has been shared not only within the department, but with the oil companies themselves. Homeland Security director James Powers defended the information shared with the oil companies as part of a triweekly bulletin, saying "We want to continue providing this support to the Marcellus Shale Formation natural gas stakeholders while not feeding those groups fomenting dissent against those same companies."
I hear all the time about how government protects people from corporations, and that's why we have to keep giving government more and more power. Holy shit, you mean they actually don't?
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
I don't see what the PA department of homeland security has to benefit from giving that info to the companies? Can someone elaborate?
Who knew...
I bet the trains run on time though.
Deleted
This is terribly interesting, the worst nightmare posible. The entrenched law inforcement and investigatory agency, tax payer funded being used to unabashedly help business over the general welfare. Someone should be going to jail here.
I had to re-read this a few times. Are these guys taking their cues from North Korea newspapers? Whoever this guy is he should be 1) reminded of what the 1st amendment is about 2) fired.
Oh, I'm sure that local Republicans would do the same thing if they were in the democrat's shoes here. Follow the money.
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
If someone is shooting at my stuff, especially if it's the large, exploding kinda stuff, like a gas storage tank. I'd expect to be told about it. This doesn't sound so sinister.
Yea I know there are more important things to discus, like how the rich and connected hose those with more altruistic motives. Anyway Pedobear doesn't aprove, and he was here first.
Because James Powers will probably receive a FAT consultant job with Marcellus Shale Formation after he "retires" from his "public sector" job. Very popular thing with DoD generals and military contractors/suppliers in the past.
ELOI, ELOI, LAMA SABACHTHANI!?
I'm sure they would too, but it's one of those issues where it really points out the hypocrisy of the party. It's like when a Republican violates family values and has a homosexual affair. It invokes a Nelson "ha ha" response.
Why are you letting these clowns ruin our country?
This isn't new. There are youtube videos of the water coming out of people's kitchen faucet catching on fire.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PRZ4LQSonXA
The process to remove natural gas and oil from shale is extremely complicated. Many companies won't even tell you what chemicals they use; they claim it's a "trade secret". They tell you that everything's okay, but you know for a fact that some of that cocktail they're pumping into the ground simply must be a carcinogen. And if they're drilling on your land, and you get your water from a well (and that's a lot of people in western PA), then you better believe that their fracking chemicals (hydraulic fracturing) are leeching into the local water table.
Naturally, there are also plenty of loopholes in the regulations to make sure that Corporate America can continue to rape and plunder low-life commoners like you and me.
For lots more information, go watch Gasland.
http://www.pbs.org/now/shows/613/index.html
:(){
Is James Powers a Democrat? Seems more like he is a bureaucrat. When a new government is elected, all the existing people in various departments aren't fired and replaced with people from the new party.
... and then they built the supercollider.
Hypocracy? What hypocracy? Total Government control is a party platform.
and pronto. Hydraulic fracturing of shale is an absolutely legitimate health and environmental concern. There is no place for his behavior in Penn or any other state. The Justice Dept should get on this and him.
For many years now I've been calling the agency in question 'DFS', for 'Department of Fatherland Security'. I guess it was only a matter of time before they demonstrated their fascism in a public, step-on-your-own-dick manner. Now their pretense of righteousness has fallen away; DFS is obviously all about money and power, and has nothing whatsoever to do with the safety and security of America and her citizens. These clowns are simply organized criminals with a government mandate, and they run the biggest protection and extortion rackets in the whole country. Given a choice, I'd rather deal with the Mafia - they seem more honorable and more competent, and at least they don't pretend to hold the moral high ground.
'The Economy' is a giant Ponzi scheme whose most pitiable suckers are the youngest among us and the yet-unborn.
"Homeland Security" was sold as a defense of the "Homeland" against external enemies. Now we're seeing Homeland Security being used to investigate political activities of U.S. Citizens.
This is making me think of Flint in 1933. That's not good.
I was getting worried when the hubbub over the school spying on its students through webcams died off. Good to see we're maintaining our position as the fifth worst state in the Union.
Your brain is not a computer.
Cop walking the beat sees series of poorly xeroxed flyers affixed to several utility poles in neighborhood:
Vandalize Joe's Deli for being a capitalist pigdog! Contact Karl for organizing information.
Does the local police department be proactive, investigating Karl and reporting this issue to Joe, a private businessman?
Or does it wait for Joe to find his window busted?
Now what if the sign were just as poorly xeroxed, Karl just as big of a troublemaker, but the sign said "Protest" instead of "Vandalize"?
Where do you draw the line? It's a hard question to answer in a free society that also demands security, and given how much expensive and dangerous toys mining companies have in their possession, and how certain environmental "activists" and "protesters" like to carry tire irons and bold cutters in their arsenal of free speech, where do you draw the line now?
Just something to thing about before accusing your fellow Americans of being fascists and capitalist pigdogs.
This is apropos because the Pennsylvania State Police began in the early 19th century as the private Iron and Coal Police of the mine and mill owners. The owners tired of paying for their muscle all by themselves and recruited the taxpayers of Pennsylvania to chip in by getting the State of Pennsylvania to ... what's the opposite of "privatize"? Publicize? Anyway, the State adopted the bosses' private security apparatus as a whole, changed its name to the State Police, and started to pay their salaries to do what they had been doing anyway: fighting the unions and communities that were struggling to improve wages and working conditions in the coal mines and steel mills of Pennsylvania.
This is all detailed in Kristian Williams's excellent history of the police in America Our Enemies in Blue .
To paraphrase the techno band Pendelum "Ok, F*** it, we do whatever the big corporations want. What you gonna do?"
This is why there's almost never such a thing as an actual conspiracy. Why spend the effort to hide something when you can do it in the open without any consequences?
James F. Powers, Jr, Director of Homeland Security for Pennsylvania, works for the energy industry. Since especially in Pennsylvania, the energy industry wrote every regulation that deals with coal, natural gas or oil, I wouldn't be a bit surprised if the state's energy regulations required the release of personal information of anyone protesting fossil fuel development.
Further, here's the bio on Mr Powers:
The important part of this bio is the fact that from 2001 through 2006, Powers served as a "Special Operations" consultant with KWG Consulting of Waterford, Virginia. If you look up "KWG Consulting" you don't find much. A half-million dollar budget and "from 1-4 employees" and nothing more. However (and this part's important), KWG Consulting is affiliated with KWG Resources, a multi-national mining and energy conglomerate, that's heavily involved in coal, oil and gas pipelines and railroads that carry coal, oil and gas.
So, it appears we have a hot shot special forces colonel who took big money to sell his services to foreign corporate interests, got himself appointed to Pennsylvania's DHS (what a coincidence!) and is now working as a hit man for the fossil fuel industry.
The next time you want to argue with me when I say that corporations have become much more powerful than any national government in the world, remember this little story, all true. I believe the government of the United States, especially, has been replaced by corporate interests since at least 1980, and the stuff we see with elections and campaigns and political discourse is nothing but theater to keep us occupied while transnationals consolidate their position as the true government of the world. The only reason we still have something called a government here in the US is to provide an enforcement arm to the corporations and to keep some semblance of order to provide a conducive environment for corporate profits and growth.
You are welcome on my lawn.
Ain't that the state with water that lights on fire, ground that's burning hot enough to cook a turkey, and Alabama in the middle?
I say we nuke it from Orbit. It's the only way to be sure. Damn sure. Plus we get rid of Alabama.
Can you tell I went to Auburn?
The institutions of government must be used against the people! I guess Govt. believes that now....
That's why the Bill of Rights was written. That's why the weakening of the Tenth Amendment was treasonous behavior. That's why Franklin D. Roosevelt was a traitor to the American people. Government is not the solution to the problem, it is not part of the problem, it is the problem itself.
Oppose it.
Your analogy is far from what happened here. A lot of these people were simply attending meetings in an attempt to change official policy.
Just because Karl has a history of vandalizing the deli doesn't mean the state has a right to tell Joe which people share Karl's political viewpoints and are trying to lawfully shut down the deli through zoning changes.
In this case, you have state employees who have clearly violated federal free speech laws, does that mean that we should track the peaceful political actions of all federal employees on their private time for being associated with them?
Is James Powers a Democrat? Seems more like he is a bureaucrat.
Bureaucrat? Possibly. Democrat? No way... his bio makes me think Republican for sure. He is former military, who are usually Republican (I make no judgment here). He formally worked/possibly still does for a large oil/mining company which usually means Republican (I am making judgment here). And through that career, it seems safe to assume he has gotten rich, which means Republican (again, judgment). If one takes those three observations (not necessarily in that order) I think Republican is a sure bet. And before I get the "troll label" A)most military members vote Republican, as they used to believe in small government and a strong defense force; and B) which party is fighting to keep the tax cuts for the richest 2.5% of our population? I'm not going to turn this into a political discussion, I'm just explaining my theory and answering the question.
Republican or Democrat, this policy stinks and really runs contradictory to "of, by, and for the people" and seems to me to be more fallout from the Citizens United verdict, which I still mourn.
Member of American Sarcasm Society - Motto: "Like we need your help!"
I am so glad PA is taking care of me and my family. Maybe, next time I wash my clothes they can be used as torch fodder. The wells are going in all around us, and I wait the day that our water is full of extra delicious tastes. Maybe we will get to sell our homes like "love canal" when the water gets to dirty. I still remember seeing pictures of a river on fire in Ohio, I think it was in Cleveland. Oh I know, this winter if we get four more feet of snow on our roofs, we can just hook a hose up to the water, light it and burn the snow right off.
...with the idea that government is necessarily evil. That is the libertarian-corporate clusterf--k that has infected our entire political culture.
Tom Ridge was the first Homeland Security chief, installed by Bush/Cheney. He's the guy who helped Bush/Cheney fake terror alerts timed to win elections. Ridge was Pennsylvania's governor until shortly before he headed Homeland Security, after decades at the top of Pennsylvania politics and police.
The PA Homeland Security department is completely compliant with Tom Ridge's way of doing business.
--
make install -not war
Except the Democratic governor was "appalled", and halted the practice once he found out.
Republicans are never appalled, except by people exercising our rights, and never halt a tyrannical practice, even when found out.
--
make install -not war
1980? Where you been buddy, under a rock? You want to trace when the last vestiges of We, The People died a nasty death you can trace that back to the end of WWII and the formation of the eternal military industrial complex. Before that the USA, like its people, was largely isolationist and left other countries the hell alone. Since then the USA hasn't gone a whole 5 years without stirring up shit somewhere, usually giving a twofor by helping out both the MIC and big oil/gas/coal.
I'd say the big difference is before around 1990 they actually pretended to give a fuck, now they don't. Just as others pointed out having the republicans stand up and refuse tax breaks for the middle class in a time of recession (I personally think it is the start of a depression myself) unless the top 2.5% (which have been making out like bandits for decades) get a tax break too? That takes a serious "fuck you peasants" attitude that they just didn't have the balls to show before. Now thanks to deregulation allowing all of the media outlets to be owned by a few megacorps they know they can say whatever they want and the media will spin away, since they own it.
As for TFA, is anybody here really surprised the whole "fuck you peasant scum" attitude has filtered down to the states? After all the federal politicians are making out like bandits, why shouldn't the state boys join in on the fun? But mark my words, if it does turn into another depression the rich better have some serious firepower, as I don't see the peasants being all passive like they were back then. We got waaay too many poor, waaay too many guns, and a serious "fuck being nice" attitude building in this country. Just go to any of the numerous cities where homes and businesses lie empty and you can practically smell the powderkeg.
ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
Seems everybody likes to harp on the other guy for shit similar to what they the accusers are also doing.
I listen to both RIAA and non-RIAA stuff if I like the music, tangential business/politics nonwithstanding.
Most of the protesters are full of it. They protest every last thing the companies do, and most of them have been pretty open about what they do. They bitch about the environmental effects, but every single chemical (not just fracking) they use is public.
I was a Central Pennsylvanian. There are no jobs, no future, no industrial base to speak of. That's why I left. No point in staying. And here come the gas companies, paying royalties to everybody and their brother, and handing out jobs with paid training hand over fist.
Yes, they have fucked up a bit with the environment. But all the water used for fracking is removed from creeks, and the dirty water is trucked out for processing, not just dumped back. IIRC, they are now paying an environmental tax. The old tards who think its a bad idea for industry in PA can go to hell.
Correct, now continue on through by asking yourself,"how does one catch one who's crossed from one to another"? It's not like people who do the later wear a "I did it!" sign. Remember the job of security much like it should have been around the time of 9/11 is to catch before they can harm others, not after when a broom and mop may be needed.
The unfortunate reality is that there are always protestors in these kind of groups who go too far, and if we're honest, given the combustible nature of the stuff being extracted, anyone playing around with vandalism on these sorts of sites is playing around with explosives and exactly the kind of people who ought to be investigated by homeland security.
That sure sucks for the people who are against shale oil extraction but are not and do not support vandals or terrorists, but unfortunately sometimes life isn't fair.
$SUBJECT is just an example, really. But to expand bit: Old Boy's Networks seem to be quite effective against that. My guess is that there are already hordes of networked executives moving from corp to corp like locusts, just serving themselves.
Not that I pity the corps, though...
As a long time resident of PA, I just want to say that Ed Rendell has never been "appalled" at anything other than the fact he can't get re-elected this year. The man is literal scum.
That's always the first and only thing I want to know, when confronted with a report like this. Did a Homeland Security agent commit a crime, and if so, what specific law was broken? The other side of that coin is that, if not, then no crime was committed, which moves the discussion into a direction "there should be a law", where I lose interest completely.
I'm sure they would too, but it's one of those issues where it really points out the hypocrisy of the party.
I call complete BS! First and foremost, most Dem supporters and Office holders would denounce such actions no matter WHO is doing it (unlike the right who almost never call their own out). Secondly, a state official that was appointed by a Democrat is very different from three branches of federal government and the majority of the media marching in lockstep. Finally, since the left DOESN'T all march in lockstep (sometimes to their detriment,) there are still varying opinions on police power. This is vary different from a whole party that runs on family values and government frugality and then never holds it's own members accountable to their oft and forcibly stated values when their personal behavior runs completely contrary.
One of these days I'm going to cut you into little pieces. - PF
I don't think you're looking far back enough either. The civil war is when corporations went from time-limited, specific-purpose vehicles to "anything to make a buck" that last forever. Shortly thereafter in 1886 corporations gained personhood. It's been all downhill from there.
Here we are:
http://www.philly.com/inquirer/home_region/20100915_Rendell__appalled__by_state_s_tracking_of_activists.html
One of these days I'm going to cut you into little pieces. - PF
Hypocracy? What hypocracy? Total Government control is a party platform.
Hypocracy - government by people who are below average?
When information is power, privacy is freedom.
KWG consulting seems to deal with getting government grants. Resources is a Toronto-based penny stock nickel/chrome exploration company.
The next time you want to argue with me
you're a fool.
HS consists of democrats? I didn't know that.
I don't see what the problem is.....
DHS provides information to a company about someone who poses a real security risk to them (the company). What's so wrong about that?
It's the same as the police informing you about someone who poses a very real threat to you.
If the police had information about someone who posed a threat to me, I'd sure like to know as much about them as I could so I could take the proper measures.....
Namely, a .40 Sig Sauer, a Browning Auto 5, 4 boxes of ammo, and a cooler full of beer.
Knowing Google's lust for data collection, the Soviet Union is still alive and well inside the psyche of Sergey Brin....
So I guess the Libertarians got what they wanted: all power is held by nongovernmental - "private" - entities, and the Government's only role is enforcing property laws. Isn't Freedom grand?
Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.
Uh, did you read the summary? It's complaining that the democrats are doing it.
Here, in case you missed it:
Western Pennsylvania's shale oil deposits have lately attracted interest not only from companies who have been extracting some of that oil, but from locals who object to what they perceive as sharp dealing by the companies involved, favorable treatment by the state government, and environmental degradation as a result of the extraction. Some of the most visible of those protesters, it turns out, have been tracked (including "Web traffic") by Pennsylvania's own Homeland Security department, and that information about them has been shared not only within the department, but with the oil companies themselves. Homeland Security director James Powers defended the information shared with the oil companies as part of a triweekly bulletin, saying "We want to continue providing this support to the Marcellus Shale Formation natural gas stakeholders while not feeding those groups fomenting dissent against those same companies."
You see, it's not OK even though it's the democrats doing it.
You just failed big time.
Well this is one of characteristics of fascism.
What are you talking about? Of course Republicans are appalled. Especially when taxes increase on the upper few percent of taxpayers.
it seems safe to assume he has gotten rich, which means Republican
It is Democratic that is now that party of the rich and of the lumpenproletariat, while the Republican Party is the party of the proles and the middle class.
How did this score insightful? The last vestiges of "We, the People ..." existed just prior to the Civil War, during which the right of Habeus Corpus was revoked (suspended, {snort}), the right of secession was abrogated (even Northern States reserved the right of secession in voting to approve the Constitution), Congressmen were stripped of office even after the war was over, and literally thousands of war crimes were committed. I'm former career military and I know exactly what constitutes a war crime. If we are going to delve into the historical record, at least get it right.
It should be no surprise that America saw the rise of the various Trusts during the post-Civil War period, to be followed by national corporations during and after WWI, and finally the rise of the multi-nationals during and after WWII. Each cycle only results in a further power-grab and aggrandizement. Should it be any surprise after 9/11 we saw even more examples. Patriot Act? Consolidation of the various police agencies into one (monolithic if they get their way) department? Monitoring of the so-called 'dangerous and violent groups'? I would have thought that TPTB would have learned their lesson from the '60's FBI but I would be wrong. Santayana said "[t]hose who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it. " I say those who do not know the past are condemned to suffer worse.
BTW, I am most definitely not a Southerner but the record of history speaks for itself.
"[I]t is a wise man who admits the limits of his knowledge or skill, and that pretending either causes harm." --Terry Go
For satisfied people they sure whine a lot!
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
Replace "oil" with "natural gas" in OP.
That's just sloppy.
The department of homeland security is BIG BROTHER. They do not want to protect you they want to watch you. This is a violation of our rights and must be stopped. No one was fired. Rendell says he is to blame so Rendell should go to JAIL!!! People that take the blame must take the punishment.
This is Bull Poo.
Rendell wasn't appalled enough to fire anyone, though.
From the Inquirer article: "Rendell said that he will not fire or discipline anyone in the Office of Homeland Security, headed by director James F. Powers Jr., for the lapse. But he said he ordered the office to terminate its contract with Philadelphia-based Institute of Terrorism and Research Response, which he said has been paid $125,000 in the last year to gather data about possible security threats."
Unless heads roll it's hard to see what pounding the podium will do to deter future antics like these.
http://www.postgazette.com/pg/10258/1087582-454.stm
The contract was ending next month anyway.
Hey, I can show you the problem with American politics.
Go look in the mirror and wipe the "Go Democratic Team!" grease paint off your forehead. Burn your "Liberals are #1" oversized foamy finger.
Both parties tend to protect their own. If you haven't observed how the Democrats vehemently protect their own then you haven't been paying any attention whatsoever.
The "majority of the media marching in lockstep"? Seriously? The Conservatives have talk radio and Fox News. The Liberals have the rest. Reminds me of this graphic.
No, Governor Rendell denouncing an embarrassing political scandal that's already gone public is no proof of anything unless you're a Democrat fanboi.
Seriously, go look up the fallacy of special pleading. It applies to all your comments/arguments. The major parties' battle is a total farce used to ignite team spirit and keep themselves in power. If you really care about politics and where this country is headed, you'll hold all politicians to the same standard and vote just about all of these bums out of office.
Why are you letting these clowns ruin our country?
Rendell said that he will not fire or discipline anyone in the Office of Homeland Security, headed by director James F. Powers Jr., for the lapse.
Yeah, giving a speech about how dastardly it was to pass on protester information (for gay and lesbian groups, a key Democratic constituency) while not firing one of your political appointees really makes the case that Democrats don't protect their own.
Why are you letting these clowns ruin our country?
You might have expressed this with less cursing, but I believe you are correct. Might I add that our two parties are fundamentally the same. They use rhetoric to give the proletariat the illusion of choice. Both parties ultimately want high taxes and big government. Their tactics are slightly different, but the end game is the same. Has there really been any difference between Bush and Obama? Has Congressional shifts in party power made a difference? No. The time is coming which is why I am stocking-up on ammo.
"The Conservatives have talk radio and Fox News." .....
And NYTimes, and WSJ, and Forbes, and
"The Liberals have the rest."
MSNBC and ComedyCentral?
Welcome to the United Corporations of America!
Yes, but back then we still had a labor movement to counterbalance the corporate power.
Actually, I actually believe the labor movement is going to come back and (maybe) save us again, but not in the US. Labor unions are very very active worldwide at the moment, even in China. The AFL-CIO for example is experiencing a lot more growth of membership in China than they are in the US. And I believe it will continue to be allowed because the Chinese leaders know unions are the best way to build a strong and wealthy middle class. Plus, in China they still haven't completely sold out to the corporations, thanks to the old communists left around. We'll have to see what happens when the old commies die out, but at the moment they are the last best hope of keeping the world from having pure Corporatist governance. Also, corporations are still trying to play nice in China. They haven't taken to the pure hardball that they play in the US, where they're cutting salaries, shedding workers, clamping down on national and local governments.
You are welcome on my lawn.
Look a little closer. Don't stop at the first Google result.
You are welcome on my lawn.
You make two errors. The first is that you think the wealthy are Republicans, check the voting stats for the 20 counties with the highest per captia income. All but one of them is a safe Democratic district. The second is that you didn't look very closely at how the head of the PA Department of Homeland Security gets his job. He is appointed by the Governor of PA. The current head was appointed in 2006. In 2006, the Governor of Pennsylvania was Ed Rendell, who is as partisan a Democrat as there is. Therefore, James Powers is clearly a Democrat.
I, also, forgot to mention that the Republicans are not fighting to keep tax cuts for the "richest" 2.5% of our population. They are fighting to keep the tax cuts for all, including those who earn in the top 2.5% of income. There is a difference between those with the highest income and those who are the wealthiest. Bill Gates is one of the richest men in the country, but he has nowhere near the highest income. The other point on this issue is that most of the top 2.5% of income according to the IRS are S corporations, not actual individuals.
The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
Sadly, Rendell probably knew about this, he's a known gas drilling supporter. (I was actually somewhat surprised to find out he was a democrat - nearly all of the "dirty nine" in New York that voted against our moratorium were Republican.)
retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
How about both are the party of whoever-gives-the-most-votes? That way we don't have to keep changing it around.
I read TFA and all I got was this lousy cookie
Not far enough back.
"The minute God crapped out the third cave man, a conspiracy was hatched against one of them." -- Hunter
If you ask me it's time we brought back the death penalty for unruly corporations.
That's exactly as it used to be. Pennsylvania was notorious for shutting down banks that were misbehaving in the 1810's and 1820's. All corporations of the time were for limited terms and for public benefit.
Come around towards 1870 and John D. Rockefeller finds he can use his "influence" in Congress to get corporations made permanent, and soon in Santa Clara a footnote to an unrelated case finds that corporations have human rights, and all three branches of government heartily embrace this bizzare idea.
Soon after the "Trust Busters" decided to break up Standard Oil and implemented the break-up plan that Rockefeller himself crafted (as he had found Standard Oil by that time to be too unwieldy to compete nimbly). They showed him, right?
Witness the transformation of the Wall Street banks in the 1990's from partnerships (where the owners' money is directly at risk) to corporate ownership and the resulting shenanigans that ensued.
Corporations remove that direct responsibility, and are, in essence, an agreement between the government and the managers to protect the managers from the People when they engage in malfeasance. Typically, those managers see to it that the representatives in Government are well taken care of, and thus the positive-feedback loop is complete.
Partnerships are the natural structure of companies that need to grow to a large size. There is a limit on their size, in contrast to giant multi-national corporations. Some will argue that the big multi-nationals are essential to provide some kind of product at some kind of price, but the evidence against them is far too compelling to support those arguments of a net-utility benefit.
I'll get a bunch of responses here that we need a big government to protect us from corporations (from well-meaning folks educated in government education centers) but I hope I've given enough of a kernel of information to lead you to read up on how government action is the root problem here, and that corporations exist only at its pleasure.
My God, it's Full of Source!
OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
And speaking as someone who lives near PA, I don't want your refugees when the company fucks up on safety and starts a fire they can't put out and then it burns for the next 250 years. Great that they are fracking the Natural Gas, 'cause it brings in jobs, but I'm sure that's what those folks on the Gulf Coast thought too, just BEFORE Deep Horizon blew a gasket.
Point is: Sooner or later, they *will* screw up, and either start a fire, or poison the area so badly, that the jobs go away, hell, whole towns will go away, and then those people will invade my state looking to resettle and take our jobs.
I believe it's already the case that many people are reporting that the water coming out of the tap smells badly, or is a funny color.. So, I'm going for the poisoning the landscape. And remember, folks from NY and NJ, that a lot of the food you're eating comes from PA, so, whatever's getting into the water is goiing into your food.
Chew on that for a while while you come down with lymphoma.
If telephones are outlawed, then only outlaws will have telephones.
Thanks for that link you posted; really important stuff:
"Thom Hartmann: Are Corporations People?"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wHmGEkzhhfQ
A 21st century issue: the irony of technologies of abundance in the hands of those still thinking in terms of scarcity.
ABC, NBC, CNN, and many others. Are you that partisan that you can't see that?
Democrat or Republican, sending reports about peaceful protests is wrong, it goes against the constitution; you know that document that is the basis for our government?
APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
Hypocracy - government by people who are below average?
No, I think that's called something else.
Of course, ironically, we can just use renewable energy and not have so much controversy... But fossil fuels are heavily subsidized in terms of both government incentives and ignored externalities...
http://www.energyandcapital.com/articles/oil-gas-crude/461
http://www.pdfernhout.net/recognizing-irony-is-a-key-to-transcending-militarism.html
See also:
"Report: Famed Civil Rights Photographer Ernest Withers Spied for FBI"
http://newsfeed.time.com/2010/09/14/report-famed-civil-rights-photographer-ernest-withers-spied-for-fbi/
"Ernest C. Withers had been the photographer who chronicled the civil rights movement through the 50s and 60s. His photos of the gruesome racial murder of teenager Emmitt Till still resonate to this day; he was there when nine students integrated Little Rock Central High School; and his camera shutters snapped just moments after Martin Luther King was assassinated. And all the while, according to the Memphis Commercial Appeal, Withers was betraying everything he knew about the civil rights movement to the FBI."
Which connects to my previous post on the open manufacturing list: :-) as well as so Smári and Bryan and others here can be proud of them too. :-) And, given the CIA is hiring machinists, build a movement where, in a good way, you assume everyone in it is working for the CIA, :-) but where you still get important stuff done in moving the world towards a post-scarcity open future. Just like people should assume Google is a division of the NSA and/or CIA. :-) An impossible task? Well, consider it more like a creative challenge. :-) "
http://groups.google.com/group/openmanufacturing/msg/ae28e8971f8f9669?hl=en
"My advice to people here is to build movements in such a way that the CIA can be proud of them
And:
"The need for FOSS intelligence tools for sensemaking etc."
http://groups.google.com/group/openmanufacturing/msg/2846ca1b6bee64e1
"As I see it, there is a race going on. The race is between two trends. On the one hand, the internet can be used to profile and round up dissenters to the scarcity-based economic status quo (thus legitimate worries about privacy and something like TIA). On the other hand, the internet can be used to change the status quo in various ways (better designs, better science, stronger social networks advocating for things like a basic income, all supported by better structured arguments like with the Genoa II approach) to the point where there is abundance for all and rounding up dissenters to mainstream economics is a non-issue because material abundance is everywhere. So, as Bucky Fuller said, whether is will be Utopia or Oblivion will be a touch-and-go relay race to the very end. While I can't guarantee success at the second option of using the internet for abundance for all, I can guarantee that if we do nothing, the first option of using the internet to round up dissenters (or really, anybody who is different, like was done using IBM computers in WWII Germany) will probably prevail. So, I feel the global public really needs access to these sorts of sensemaking tools in an open source way, and the way to use them is not so much to "fight back" as to "transform and/or transcend the system". As Bucky Fuller said, you never change thing by fighting the old paradigm directly; you change things by inventing a new way that makes the old paradigm obsolete."
By the way, someone (mrbrod) in the com
A 21st century issue: the irony of technologies of abundance in the hands of those still thinking in terms of scarcity.
I'm sure they would too, but it's one of those issues where it really points out the hypocrisy of the party. It's like when a Republican violates family values and has a homosexual affair. It invokes a Nelson "ha ha" response.
You mean Senator Ben "Diaperman" Nelson (he reportedly had an adult baby fetish with his prostitute, not sure about his wife. I'm sorry, but even as a registered Independent I *have* to laugh at him!
Also, he and his wife had no problem making maximum political exploitation of Bill Clinton's affair, his wife even criticized Hillary saying if *her* husband did that she'd do a Loreana Bobbit on him (apparently she failed to live up to her promise, at least I *think* she didn't)!
You're the one showing the typical Republican hypocracy that if an Democrat has an affair its a serious public policy issue, but if a Republican has an affair its a "private matter" (even if that same Republican has made political hay on affairs of the opposition).
My issue with Republicans and Tea Partiers is that they don't want Big Government, except they want their Social Security, Corporate Welfare, Tax Cuts borrowed from future generations *and* they want the Government to be in everybody's bedrooms (anti-gay marriage, anti-gay adoption, don't ask don't tell, anti-polygamy) and every doctor's exam room (anti-abortion, some oppose it even if the life of the mother is at risk -- 'cause Jesus will save 'em -- and in case of rape and incest -- 'cause Jesus had incest in his family tree according to a careful reading of the Christian Bible, and what a same it would have been if Mary of Nazareth had taken some Pennyroyal and Black Cohosh...).
It would be reasonable if the only information they provided was "safety" related. Using your analogy, the police may give you a name, photo, and make/model of the car of an individual who may be a threat to you. But they most certainly wouldn't give you their license plate number, drivers license number/info, home address, work address, internet history, credit card history, check history, etc. It sounds like DHS is providing at least a few of these bits of information if not allowing them full access to their "terror database". If this is true it is much more likely being used as a dirt slinging/extortion tool than a safety tool. "Mr Smith, we would appreciate it if you would stop organizing protests against us. Otherwise you wife might just find out about your visits to [questionable website].com and how often you stop by the strip club over in [town]. Thank you for your cooperation"
I've worked at a lot of different companies, and some are targets...not just for terrorists, but kooks. The company I work for makes eeeeeevil weapons of war. We've had people sneak past security and try to wage a protest in our offices. We've had people try to sneak in weapons. We've had people try to damage our products. We've had people SUCCEED in damaging our products. We know all to well that we are under threat.
I also worked at a chemical company. We knew full well that some people objected to anything man-made and might attempt sabotage or worse. There is a reason why we had on-site security.
If there are groups planning to protest at our work site, YOU'rRE DAMN RIGHT we would like to know about it. Do we need to know about the individuals involved? Maybe. I consider it a judgement call based on their history. If one person had a history of illegal or violent protesting actions. Once again YOU BETTER BELIEVE that I want our security staff on the lookout. 99% of protesters are perfectly peaceful, and I'm not concerned about those...it's the unhinged kooks who tend to kill people.
The environmental movement is full of violent wackjobs. Their media only carry the most extreme. What goes unreported are all the death threats to *children* of company employees. The Left is delusional and violent; they think they are saving the planet so they stalk kids.
So, ram it up your fucking asses, environmentalist terrorists. You burn labs, houses, cars, threaten children, trespass, B&E, all in the name of Earth. Well to hell with you fucks.
THE ONLY HONEST ENVIRONMENTALIST IS A SUICIDE
So get busy.
Challenge the legality of Corporate Tax on the basis of race discrimination. Corporations are people (ridiculous but its a matter of law), they are racially unique due to the absence of any genetic material. They receive special tax benefits that are only available for one racial group (corporations). End the discrimination!
>>>The Conservatives have talk radio and Fox News. The Liberals have the rest. Reminds me of this graphic [showing Christians dominate]
Since most people get their news from TV, whoever dominates the TV news is what truly matters. Rush Limbaugh gets about 1/2 a million ears per day, while ABC/CBS/NBC get about 20 million ears per day. And what is their bias? Clearly pro-"we need more government".
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
In television the pro-"we need more government" bias exists on every channel except FOX. The pro-government bias in on ABC, CBS, NBC, PBS, CNN, and MSNBC.
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
If A is Democrat, and A appoints B, then B is clearly Democrat. Clearly? I'd say 'most likely'.
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2006/11/who_really_cares.html
"People who identify themselves as conservatives donate money to charity more often than people who identify themselves as liberals. They donate more money and a higher percentage of their incomes.
It is not that conservatives have more money. Liberal families average 6 percent higher incomes than conservative families.
The vision of the left exalts the young especially as idealists while the more conservative vision warns against the narrowness and shallowness of the inexperienced. This study found young liberals to make the least charitable contributions of all, whether in money, time or blood. Idealism in words is not idealism in deeds."
Websites spout the total spent on Iraq/Afghanistan to date, ~$1 Trillion. Even if that were true which it's only half true, that's almost 10 years of actual, tangible costs. The fact is we would spend almost that much every year even without a war. "For the 2010 fiscal year, the president's base budget of the Department of Defense rose to $533.8 billion. Adding spending on "overseas contingency operations" brings the sum to $663.8 billion."(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_budget_of_the_United_States). What we have is a little over $100 Billion extra in costs every year for all worldwide operations not just is Iraq/Afghanistan. You see even if we were to cease all operations in Iraq/Afghanistan we would only save ~$50 Billion/year.
Not let's compare that with our esteemed Democrat(and some Republicans) congressmen who just blew through $11 Trillion of vaporware projects(handouts) in a little over a year. (http://money.cnn.com/news/storysupplement/economy/bailouttracker/). That doesn't even include this year's passage of the healthcare act, and other acts passed/yet to be passed this year which puts their planned spending spree at over $23 Trillion (http://www.businessinsider.com/total-bailout--237-trillion-2009-7). It's OK though they tell us, because we haven't spent it all yet. Are you folks getting the picture? Democrats with one hand show you all the money they can save by e.g. ending all operations in Iraq, then with the other spend 20 times as much 10 times as fast with no foreseeable end in sight.
These people(anyone that keeps voting for these spending sprees, D, R, or I) can't be voted out of office quick enough. It literally is our last chance to save this great nation. Vote if you are eligible.
Yeah, the robber baron era was perhaps the pinnacle of corporatist greed and the low point of "we the people's" power. In America at least. Between then and now, things had gotten better (thanks Sherman!), but it appears we're regressing. This here certainly appears to be an example of blatant disregard for the democratic power structure.
The pro-government bias in on ABC, CBS, NBC, PBS, CNN, and MSNBC.
Hahahahaha! Silly troll.
I live ze unknown. I love ze unknown. I am ze unknown.
I dunno if you've noticed, but liberals have been coming down on Obama for continuing many of Bush's worst policies. Contrast with what you rightists have done regarding many of these same policies. When it became apparent Bush was assassinating people, rightists did not criticize him for it, instead they accused anyone who had a problem with it of being anti-American traitors who were "with the terrorists". Now that Obama is continuing this bad policy, this same exact policy has gone from something the government must do, to something bad.
While a certain amount of this "it's only bad when the other side does it" does indeed happen on both sides, you rightists have proven yourselves to be much, much worse, so don't even think about trying to project onto others your most glaring flaws.
You still spouting this bullshit? Per capita income isn't a single number that everyone in a district earns. It does divide middle class urban from poor urban. Urban areas vote for democrats. I'm guessing you'll find the poorest urban areas also vote for democrats But it only takes one or two CEOs in a district to skew average incomes (which is what per capita means). That doesn't mean that the rich people in those districts are voting for democrats, it means that even there the poor and lower middle class outnumber the rich. Poll data is far more reliable in indicating voting trends versus income and it doesn't support your point of view in urban areas. In rural areas, the poor tend to be social conservatives and the republicans have been very good on capitalizing on their fear that blacks, gays, mexicans and black mexican gays are going to kill babies and raise the taxes that poor people currently don't pay.
And also cut the bull on taxes. The fact that Bill Gates has no income is the reason that it will be good to get the estate tax back at some reasonable level. Or just tax the heirs as if it was regular income. Right now people are getting a step up in capital gains basis without paying any taxes. If the tax cut is not renewed for people earning over $250K they still keep the cut on their first 250K or income. If it comes down to sacrificing the tax cuts entirely in order to protect the high earners the republicans will do it. Cause they gotta protect those poor rich people. For that matter why does it matter if most of those 2.5% are S corps? Most S corps are owned by individual people who started an S corp to avoid paying taxes on the "corporation's" profit at their marginal rate. They can always convert back to a sole proprietorship or partnership. While we're at it let's get capital gains and investment income tax rates up to the same rates as regular income. Why should idle non-participatory investing be considered superior to working for a living? We've seen how "don't tax the rich" policies have worked out for the past 30 years... Richer rich people. Poorer poor people. And the middle class are rapidly turning into poor people.
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People who identify themselves as conservatives donate money to charity more often than people who identify themselves as liberals. They donate more money and a higher percentage of their incomes.
More conservative propaganda. This study doesn't make comparison by age ranges. Right now old conservative people have the most to give. Most of what they give goes to their churches, which buys big screen TVs for the overflow room. It also assumes religious outreach constitutes giving, when, in fact, it is predominantly indoctrination rather than aid. When you look in each age category and discount religious volunteering and donation that doesn't include actual assistance to the poor or downtrodden or for non-religious charitable purpose, at most ages liberals give more, because they give to actual social programs, not to their church.
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I should also add that it's anonymous conservative bastards like you that this country needs to be saved from.
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That's total bullshit ABC, CBS, NBC and CNN have a conservative bias in their reporting. Most of what they do is parroting Faux News. Are you that partisan that you can't see that?
The only thing I can think about that would fit in "many others" would be BBC and CBC. And by liberal bias there you'd have to mean "not an explicit conservative bias."
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First, relative to per capita income, do you really believe that the reason that West Chester County in New York votes Democrat every election is because it has a couple of rich guys who vote Republican and a majority of poor people who vote Democratic? Do you really believe that anybody poor can afford to live in West Chester County New York? How about the Hamptons?
The other thing is when Bill Gates dies, very little of his wealth will be available to be taxed. Most of his money will be in various trusts (such as the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation), those trusts will likely pay some kind of allowance to his heirs. The truly wealthy don't pay estate tax. The people who pay estate tax are the heirs of small businessmen and farmers, especially when those guys die suddenly.
The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
You make two errors. The first is that you think the wealthy are Republicans, check the voting stats for the 20 counties with the highest per captia income. All but one of them is a safe Democratic district.
Typical Republican deceptiveness at work. It is no surprise that rich people live in the richest parts of cities in gilded islands surrounded by poverty. Anyone who has ever driven around the uptown area of any major city can attest to how quickly you go from richest of the rich to blighted ghetto. Your statistic, when analyzed, actually undermines your argument. What a load of horse shit.
As I responded to someone else, do you really think there are a bunch of poor people living in West Chester County, New York? Check out what housing costs are there. How about the Hamptons? Or Martha's Vineyard?
The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison