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Promised Microsoft Tablet 'No Thicker Than Sheet of Glass'

Posted by timothy on from the depends-how-thick-the-glass-is dept.

Barence writes Microsoft will deliver a touchscreen PC that is 'no thicker than a sheet of glass' within the next three years, according to the company's principal researcher. The device will be the next generation of Microsoft's Surface project, which currently houses a touchscreen PC in a deep cabinet that uses cameras to detect hand gestures and objects placed on the screen. According to Microsoft's Bill Buxton, 'Surface will become no thicker than a sheet of glass. It's not going to have any cameras or projectors because the cameras will be embedded in the device itself.' Microsoft is developing a new screen technology to make this possible. 'The best way to think about it is like a big LCD where there's a fourth pixel in every triad. So there's red, green, and blue pixels giving you light, and a fourth pixel which is a sensor that will capture stuff,' Buxton claims in an interview with The Globe and Mail."

64 of 352 comments (clear)

  1. sheet of glass from a large aquarium? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    how thick can glass be?

    1. Re:sheet of glass from a large aquarium? by camperdave · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Apparently some porthole glass is two inches thick.

      --
      When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
    2. Re:sheet of glass from a large aquarium? by dmacleod808 · · Score: 2, Funny

      That's what she said!

      --
      There Can Be Only One...
  2. will believe when i see it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I'll believe it when I see it. Otherwise it's just vaporware that will clog blogs with nonsensical hype.

    1. Re:will believe when i see it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      what ever happened to the Origami Project?

      It folded.

    2. Re:will believe when i see it by gurner · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Say what you like about Apple, if they announce it you can buy it shortly after.

    3. Re:will believe when i see it by arivanov · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I would not be so sure about that. Hystorically, microsoft hardware division has been reasonably good in delivering on its promises.

      Also, funnily enough, most of their hardware works quite well with Linux. This reminds me, I need to get some more Microsoft XP Media Center Edition IR remote controls for my Linux HTPCs. While MCE XP was a flop, the hardware for it performs fantastically under a proper OS:)

      --
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      http://www.sigsegv.cx/
    4. Re:will believe when i see it by gilesjuk · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Once again it's all vaporware from Microsoft and everyone knows that no matter how cool the hardware is, if the software sucks then what use is it? Looking at the surface software list there's nothing available for it that is of use to anyone, unless you want a big photo viewer or map. Where's the web browser, email or office tools?

    5. Re:will believe when i see it by Hognoxious · · Score: 5, Funny

      what ever happened to the Origami Project? It really looked like it had potential.

      It looked good on paper.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    6. Re:will believe when i see it by peragrin · · Score: 3, Insightful

      MSFT has had a Tablet OS for almost a friggin decade and they have yet to port over their most useful applications to a touch based interface.

      Why does it take Apple to finally pull all the parts together in both hardware and software and show the computer world how to do things like create products customers demand.

      --
      i thought once I was found, but it was only a dream.
    7. Re:will believe when i see it by ciderbrew · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Because someone has to do it first to prove that there is a market to go to. It's a business case.
      MS wouldn't have made the Xbox; but as a few other companies were doing very nicely thank you very much. Management and marketing had a business case with good numbers and wanted a bit of the action.

      Henry Ford said "If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said a faster horse". MS would have given them the horse. It's a sound business choice. I'm sure there is a lot of office politics between the good idea and the money. The person that can get the money wins, not the best idea.

    8. Re:will believe when i see it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

      The vast majority of research Microsoft does is never released, and never intended to release. The media gets the reports on it wrong and claims "Microsoft will release yadda-yadda-yadda", when research projects are almost always just that.

      The IP produced from the research projects is licensed to partner manufacturers to turn into products, which is why there's usually such a lag (or why tech seems to just disappear). Courier was a perfect example of that. See the new Libretto laptop?

      You need to pay attention to WHO is announcing inside of Microsoft. Microsoft Research is not about products.

      (Posted anonymously to preserve some moderation and because I'm not 100% sure what I should or should not be posting in this regard ...)

    9. Re:will believe when i see it by Jarik+C-Bol · · Score: 4, Informative

      Actually, I recall an article on /. a few years back talking about a new Apple patent for a monitor where every 4th pixel was a sensor. The idea at the time was that all the input could be compiled, and the entire screen was your camera, thus ending the whole 'looking away from the camera in video chat because you are looking at the screen' and a plethora of other uses. Aha, here's the article. from over 4 years ago:
      http://hardware.slashdot.org/story/06/04/26/1536212/Apples-All-Seeing-Screen

      --
      I've decided to Diversify my Holdings. I've divided my cash between my left and right pockets, instead of all in one.
    10. Re:will believe when i see it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Oh, you mean like the immensely successful Apple Pippin, the Apple Newton and Copland? See, I can cherry pick too.

      Go look at Microsoft Research. They've done a lot more than you are probably aware of.

    11. Re:will believe when i see it by UnknowingFool · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Because someone has to do it first to prove that there is a market to go to. It's a business case.

      Um, MS has had tablets for a decade but haven't been very successful with them. A decade is more than enough time to flesh out the market. The iPad is less than 6 months old and have sold in the millions already. I think the main reason is that tablets where just a computer in a very expensive small form factor without any real thought that the UI might have to be changed.

      MS wouldn't have made the Xbox; but as a few other companies were doing very nicely thank you very much. Management and marketing had a business case with good numbers and wanted a bit of the action.

      I wouldn't hold the Xbox of a shining example of good business. While the Xbox has a good marketshare, it does not appear MS will make money on the project. Basically all MS did was pay for marketshare with billions of dollars.

      --
      Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
    12. Re:will believe when i see it by UnknowingFool · · Score: 3, Informative

      Take Leopard for example. It was announced in the spring of 2005 and didn't show up until the fall of 2007. Which means that MS has 2 1/2 years to get this released to meet your definition of "shortly after".

      There's a difference in announcing what your next version of software is going to be called and announcing it is being released. Apple announced in 2005 that they were working on the next version of OS X and it was going to be called Leopard. They released Tiger on April 29, 2005 so it's highly unlikely that they said it would release Leopard in the same year.

      --
      Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
  3. No thicker than... by pookemon · · Score: 5, Funny

    A sheet of glass like in a picture frame (2mm) or like in an Aquarium (Several cm's). Maybe, being Microsoft, it starts out as thick as the picture frame glass, but it rapidly expands to be as thick as Aquarium glass. Then it breaks.

    --
    dnuof eruc rof aixelsid
    1. Re:No thicker than... by Thanshin · · Score: 5, Funny

      A sheet of glass like in a picture frame (2mm) or like in an Aquarium (Several cm's).

      Marketing: "I said it'll be no thicker than a sheet of glass."
      I+D: "That's retarded, we're not even close."
      CEO: "Didn't the nuclear bunkers from those desert tests had a window towards the explosion?"
      Marketing: "Half as thick as a sheet of glass!"

    2. Re:No thicker than... by grim-one · · Score: 5, Funny

      Osaka's Aquarium has 30cm thick plate glass. The tablet may be thicker than it is tall or wide =)

    3. Re:No thicker than... by Ecuador · · Score: 4, Funny

      30cm? That's silly, why didn't they go with transparent aluminum? Aquariums have been using it since '86...

      --
      Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent. Polar Scope Align for iOS
  4. how thick? by dark+grep · · Score: 5, Interesting

    The pool fencing around my patio is 10mm thick. The floor of the Auckland tower has glass 25mm thick. So how thick is thick? A pretty pointless claim if you ask me. And three years? In Internet terms it may as well be 30 years. A stupid press release all round.

    1. Re:how thick? by Thanshin · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Now you understand the use of convincing your population that giving volumes in ping pong balls, areas in stadiums and data volume in libraries of Congress is perfectly fine.

    2. Re:how thick? by Cidolfas · · Score: 5, Funny

      My favorite is from the show How It's Made.

      They said, "when complete it weighs 10 pounds, about the weight of a full-grown cat."

      For the next 2 years, my roomates and I refered to weights in terms of full-grown cats.

      --
      I am become /dev/null, destroyer of data.
    3. Re:how thick? by harlows_monkeys · · Score: 4, Insightful

      A stupid press release all round

      It wasn't a press release. It was an interview with Bill Buxton, a well-known pioneering computer scientist (SIGCHI Lifetime Achievement Award, Chief Scientist at Alias Wavefront and SGI, pioneered multi-touch interfaces in the '70s, now a principle researcher at Microsoft Research). When the press interviews well-known scientists, it is customary to ask about what new things are coming in the next few years.

    4. Re:how thick? by Hognoxious · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Indian or African?

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    5. Re:how thick? by Threni · · Score: 2, Insightful

      > When the press interviews well-known scientists, it is customary to ask about what new things are coming in the next few years.

      "So, this new computer...you're saying it's about the size of a piece of string"? Yeah, good old press, up to their usual high standards of technology reporting.

  5. Hey! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Nobody buy an iPad!

    Let's all wait for this promised invention from Microsoft, which will be much better than anything we can get today, and is coming Real Soon Now!

    1. Re:Hey! by jcr · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You know, there was a time when Microsoft was able to kill a company with a vaporware announcement like that. Anyone remember how they announced "Pen Windows" to strangle Go PenPoint in the cradle?

      PenPoint was a nice bit of work. Those guys knew what they were doing.

      -jcr

      --
      The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
    2. Re:Hey! by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I want sytli back. They stopped shipping them because "people hate the stylus." No handwriting recognition, no advanced UIs.

      --
      Support my political activism on Patreon.
  6. Patent Infringement? by PolygamousRanchKid+ · · Score: 4, Funny

    a fourth pixel which is a sensor that will capture stuff

    Didn't someone here on Slashdot have a patent titled, "A Method and Process of Doing Things with Stuff" . . . ?

    It looks like Microsoft might have an intellectual property problem here . . .

    --
    Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
  7. Microsoft borrowing ideas from Apple again? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

    Parts of this concept seem awfully familiar...

    http://hardware.slashdot.org/story/06/04/26/1536212/Apples-All-Seeing-Screen

    1. Re:Microsoft borrowing ideas from Apple again? by Taagehornet · · Score: 3, Informative

      Bill Buxton isn't just some random Microsoft employee, he's one of the pioneers of the industry, and has been working with multi-touch systems since back in the early eighties.

      Contrary to popular belief Apple didn't invent multi-touch

      Multi-touch technologies have a long history. To put it in perspective, my group at the University of Toronto was working on multi-touchin 1984 (Lee, Buxton & Smith, 1985), the same year that the first Macintosh computer was released, and we were not the first. Furthermore, during the development of the iPhone, Apple was very much aware of the history of multi-touch, dating at least back to 1982, and the use of the pinch gesture, dating back to 1983. This is clearly demonstrated by the bibliography of the PhD thesis of Wayne Westerman, co-founder of FingerWorks, a company that Apple acquired early in 2005, and now an Apple employee:

      Westerman, Wayne (1999). Hand Tracking,Finger Identification, and Chordic Manipulation on a Multi-Touch Surface. U of Delaware PhD Dissertation: http://www.ee.udel.edu/~westerma/main.pdf

      In making this statement about their awareness of past work, I am not criticizing Westerman, the iPhone, or Apple. It is simply good practice and good scholarship to know the literature and do one's homework when embarking on a new product. What I am pointing out, however, is that "new" technologies - like multi-touch - do not grow out of a vacuum. While marketing tends to like the "great invention" story, real innovation rarely works that way. In short, the evolution of multi-touch is a text-book example of what I call "the long-nose of innovation."

      Microsoft borrowing ideas from Apple again?

      It's probably the other way round. Nice troll though.

    2. Re:Microsoft borrowing ideas from Apple again? by Bill_the_Engineer · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Jeez. You brought this back up from your capture file. This is the exact same quote I replied to half a year ago or so...

      Anyway Bill Buxton doesn't complain about Apple receiving accolades about it's multi-touch UI in the iPhone. From your linked article:

      In making this statement about their awareness of past work, I am not criticizing Westerman, the iPhone, or Apple. It is simply good practice and good scholarship to know the literature and do one's homework when embarking on a new product. What I am pointing out, however, is that "new" technologies - like multi-touch - do not grow out of a vacuum. While marketing tends to like the "great invention" story, real innovation rarely works that way. In short, the evolution of multi-touch is a text-book example of what I call "the long-nose of innovation."

      He wanted to make sure that everyone knew that innovation doesn't happen overnight and usually involves pioneers other than the current innovator.

      What Apple is rightfully credited with is having a multi-gestured UI where the display is within the tablet and placing it all in a form-factor suitable to used as a cellphone. This involved creating an OS geared toward the task as well as hardware components that would make the weight and size requirements of the design. Not to mention have the targeted battery life.

      The Simon shown in the article was the first smartphone with a touch UI, however it only allowed single touch gestures.

      Microsoft borrowing ideas from Apple again?
      It's probably the other way round. Nice troll though.

      Looking at the same article, I see that Microsoft Surface can be traced back to Digital Desk (Pierre Wellner, et.al. '91), Graspable/Tangible Interfaces (University of Toronto '95), Active Desk (University of Toronto '95/'97), T3 (Alias|Wavefront, Toronto), Fingerworks ('98 Newark, Delaware), etc... So I'm highly doubtful it was the other way around.

      If anything this should serve as proof on how important academic research is, since almost all of the innovations we are taking advantage of are a result of university research projects across the globe.

      --
      These comments are my own and do not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of my employer or colleagues...
  8. Re:cameras are in the pixels now by a_hanso · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Haha I see what you mean. At least now if you don't trust your software to switch off the built in camera, you can at least put tape over it (I for one *never* trust software over mechanical switches -- mainly because I write software for a living and I know what's usually inside. i also use a 'dumb phone' because when I hit 'OFF' I want it to bloody TURN OFF) On the other hand though, can it capture actual images as opposed to shadows, and if so, how would it do that without a lens?

  9. Standard Microsoft Tactics by am+2k · · Score: 2, Insightful

    When you have nothing to compete against a product, just post a press release containing promises about whatever the marketing department can come up with.

    Given Microsoft's non-relevancy in the mobile area, this might fail horribly this time though.

    1. Re:Standard Microsoft Tactics by harlows_monkeys · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Why didn't you RTFA?

    2. Re:Standard Microsoft Tactics by Rockoon · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I actually have read the article, and it doesn't invalidate my statement.

      ...'cept for the fact that its not a press release... the entire premise of your post... yeah, other than that your statements arent invalidated at all.

      --
      "His name was James Damore."
    3. Re:Standard Microsoft Tactics by am+2k · · Score: 3, Insightful

      So you think just because there isn't a "Press Release" headline, that statement in the interview was done on a hunch and not effected by the marketing department in some way?

  10. Windows on Window? by EricX2 · · Score: 2, Funny

    Does that mean we can have windows running on a window?

    1. Re:Windows on Window? by nacturation · · Score: 3, Funny

      Does that mean we can have windows running on a window?

      What a pane.

      --
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  11. Re:cameras are in the pixels now by Vegemeister · · Score: 2, Funny

    That begs the question,* why isn't this tagged 'telescreen'?

    *I'm in ur language, trollin' ur pedants.

  12. Squant by pellik · · Score: 2, Informative

    So in addition to the three light emitting colors that come standard, their LCDs contain a new, light capturing color. This isn't news, squant has been known for years.

  13. I can't wait! by hoggoth · · Score: 4, Funny

    This is great. I can't wait to get one. I will carry it in my backpack while I fly around in my jet pack which will be powered by cold fusion.

    --
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    1. Re:I can't wait! by paulkoan · · Score: 2, Funny

      Never wear a jetpack and a backpack at the same time.

      --
      This signature intentionally left blank
    2. Re:I can't wait! by mikeage · · Score: 3, Funny

      This is great. I can't wait to get one. I will carry it in my backpack while I fly around in my jet pack which will be powered by cold fusion.

      To make things even better, you'll be able to play Duke Nukem Forever on it!

      --
      -- Is "Sig" copyrighted by www.sig.com?
  14. Doesn't anyone check on marketting? by Haedrian · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Marketting: So, how thick will it be?
    Development: X cms thick
    Marketting: Cool, that's almost as thick as the glass in my family picture frame, "No Thicker Than Sheet of Glass" - perfect
    Development: Uh, but won't that be ambigious - and since the majority of people who are going to care enough to read this are going to have more intelligence than a potted plant - and actually question how thick the glass will be... won't this make us look like a bunch of idiots?
    Marketting: Sheet of Glass! Perfect.

    1. Re:Doesn't anyone check on marketting? by DerekLyons · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Development: Uh, but won't that be ambigious - and since the majority of people who are going to care enough to read this are going to have more intelligence than a potted plant - and actually question how thick the glass will be... won't this make us look like a bunch of idiots?

      No, only the pedantic types with an axe to grind, time on their hands, and karma to whore will actually ask how thick the sheet will be. The rest of us will assume "somewhere in the general vicinity of normal window or auto glass", since that's what the phrase "as thick as a sheet of glass" usually means.

    2. Re:Doesn't anyone check on marketting? by clone53421 · · Score: 4, Funny

      I am a pedantic type with an axe to grind, and even I knew that they obviously meant the first thing that would occur to most people’s minds when they thought of a pane of glass.

      The part that I considered an atrocious abuse of language was the part where he claimed that there will be four pixels per triad. He could have just said that instead of using triads of pixels (3 pixels per group... red, green, and blue) they will have tetrads: 4 pixels per group; red, green, blue, and an extra 4th pixel that is a simple light sensor.

      But no... his triads go to FOUR.

      --
      Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
  15. Bad article, Really bad summary by Sockatume · · Score: 4, Informative

    The original article is discussing Surface's touch panel and display, which are currently a weird hodge-podge of tech, being shrunk down into a single panel which is as thin as a sheet of glass. Nothing the engineer says suggests that the whole device will be that size. Furthermore the "three year" comments are about Surface's possible consumer launch, and nothing to do with the new panel at all. PC Pro's blog dump is completely dire, read the second link.

    --
    No kidding!!! What do you say at this point?
    1. Re:Bad article, Really bad summary by NekSnappa · · Score: 2, Funny

      There you go. Reading the article, and making sense, and spoiling everybodys fun. There's one in every crowd.

      --
      I want to shoot the messenger!
  16. Is "thickness" an important feature nowadays ? by obarthelemy · · Score: 4, Insightful

    or is MS so much at their wits' end that they don't even know which feature to hype for their "we'll do that in 3 years, honest, you can stop buying iPads now" PR campaigns ?

    --
    The Cloud - because you don't care if your apps and data are up in the air.
  17. Georgia Aquarium by Roger+W+Moore · · Score: 4, Funny

    Apparently, since you can get glass over 60cm thick, at least as thick as the person who used that description. I suppose they'll be telling us that the screen is as long as a piece of string next.

    1. Re:Georgia Aquarium by h4rm0ny · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The last thing I would want would be a device that was as thin as the panel on my phone. Okay, I want my device to be light, but I also want it to have a reasonable chance of surviving being sat on.

      --

      Aide-toi, le Ciel t'aidera - Jeanne D'Arc.
  18. Re:great scanner! by molecular · · Score: 2

    with fifth mirror pixel

  19. With x86....else is it really Windows? by jabjoe · · Score: 4, Insightful

    If they use a x86 to compete with the ARM tablets it will have shorter battery life and run hot. If they use ARM (or something else giving good mA/mips), then people won't understand why it can't run their Windows software. If it looks and feels like Windows (and actually code wise, is Windows) but can't run Windows software, people won't like it. The platform is Windows software. It's the closed source curse, you are stuck on the hardware and API things are compiled for. Of course their is byte code, but then they will be competing again other tablets of similar spec, but with their apps byte coded while the others (Apple/Linux) are native. If that happens, bet MS's own apps are native for each platform, but they advice developers to use .NET to cover all MS platforms. But even then, are most consumers going to understand the difference between .NET apps and native apps? This to me has all the marks of a money blackhole while they try and complete in the tablet space.

    1. Re:With x86....else is it really Windows? by Alioth · · Score: 3, Funny

      It's a marketing problem.

      Apple users don't expect iPads and iPhones to run Macintosh software, even if these devices run a flavour of OSX - Apple doesn't call it that - they call it iOS, so no one expects OS X programs to run on it. If Microsoft were to not call their mobile OS 'Windows', then the confusion would go away. Instead of calling it 'Windows Mobile' which kind of gives the expectation that it's just Windows and you can run desktop software on it, they could call it something else. Perhaps 'Doors'.

      --
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  20. Maybe they could call it... by dotancohen · · Score: 4, Funny

    I know of other MS products that resemble a (fragile) sheet of glass. Windows, anyone?

    --
    It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong.
  21. Embedded by Orphaze · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Not commenting on this potential vaporware, but embedded cameras in LCD screens might single handedly make video conferencing pleasant. Presently, the distance between the camera and screen mean video chatting is essentially an exercise in watching another person watch their computer while having a conversation with you.

    Apart from latency / bandwidth issues, I think that is the largest thing that has prevented video chat from taking off. It's not at all like talking face to face with a real human being.

  22. Re:unless it's bulletproof glass at the bank by kiddygrinder · · Score: 3, Interesting

    they can just jam all the electronics not directly related to viewing or receiving input in a block at the bottom or around the screen, they didn't say anything about height, width or either of those in comparison to viewable area

    --
    This is a joke. I am joking. Joke joke joke.
  23. Re:Last time MS published anything noteworthy? by FaxeTheCat · · Score: 3, Insightful

    >I don't remember that Microsoft published anything really new the last decade or so.

    You should not blame Microsoft for your bad memory.

  24. Yeah, right, but remember: by Superken7 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Yeah right, but remember:

    just like other "groundbreaking" technologies by microsoft, like Natal, they'll start removing features ...

    "oh, no, it won't support more than two fingers for now..." "oh, sorry, it will be a bit thicker" .. "oh sorry, that awesome refresh rate? nope, not this time.." or similar things.

    I hope I'm mistaken though =D

  25. Re:I think I like the Apple way... by DinDaddy · · Score: 3, Informative

    None is overstating it, but MS does put a lot more into R&D:

    http://gizmodo.com/5486798/research-and-development-apple-vs-microsoft-vs-sony

  26. Extreme vaporware announcement by Futurepower(R) · · Score: 2, Insightful

    "But how many Libraries will it hold?"

    It will hold any amount of libraries you can imagine, because it is an imaginary product.

    Quote from the article: "Microsoft will deliver a touchscreen PC that is 'no thicker than a sheet of glass' within the next three years, according to the company's principal researcher."

    In the next 3 years? Do you believe that? That's the most extreme vaporware announcement I've ever seen.

    A prediction that considers the physics: If you drop it, it will shatter, because the bending forces will be extreme, and something thin cannot counteract those forces.

  27. All True by Coward+Anonymous · · Score: 2, Insightful

    And it'll be made by Apple.