Slashdot Mirror


UK ISPs To Pay 25% of Copyright Enforcement Costs

Andorin writes "The UK's Department of Business, Innovation and Skills (BIS) has released a report (PDF) related to the new Digital Economy Act. The debate between copyright holders and ISPs about who should front the costs for the enforcement of the Act's anti-piracy provisions has come to a close: Rights holders will pay 75% of the copyright enforcement costs, with the remaining 25% of the bill going to ISPs (and therefore their customers). Says the Minister for Communications, Ed Vaizey: 'Protecting our valuable creative industries, which have already suffered significant losses as a result of people sharing digital content without paying for it, is at the heart of these measures... We expect the measures will benefit our creative economy by some £200m per year and as rights holders are the main beneficiaries of the system, we believe our decision on costs is proportionate to everyone involved.' Not surprisingly, some ISPs and consumer groups are up in arms about the decision, with one ISP calling it a government subsidy of the entertainment industries."

26 of 255 comments (clear)

  1. Thank you for legitimizing bittorrenting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    This cost will get passed on to the ISP's customers. Everyone with broadband will be required to subsidize the entertainment industry as it pretends to die from losses to piracy while reporting massive profits. If they're forcing me to compensate them for losses based on arbitrary made-up amounts for 'imaginary' lost sales then I will force them to compensate me by giving me free movies & tv shows based on my arbitrarily assigned figures for its value. I think a 2500th of it's retail price (as they like that figure and use it to calculate lawsuit settlements) is fair. I'll be more than happy to bittorrent the equivalent value with my broadband connection.

    1. Re:Thank you for legitimizing bittorrenting by Dancindan84 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Canada has a blank media levy (from the 80s era of mix tapes I believe, but that's not explained in this article) that a judge ruled gives us carte blanche to download (but not upload) music to burn to those media. Maybe the *IAA pushing for levies will backfire on them.

      --
      "Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much." - Oscar Wilde
    2. Re:Thank you for legitimizing bittorrenting by dubbreak · · Score: 4, Insightful

      .. the entertainment industry as it pretends to die from losses to piracy while reporting massive profits.

      Last time I checked they also pretend to not make any money. They may report huge gross income and brag about biggest box office sales ever, but somehow they never make a net profit (even before the days of internet piracy).

      Good thing we have all these philanthropists funding the movie industry, because between piracy and films just not being profitable all the big film companies would collapse under a mountain of debt!

      --
      "If you are going through hell, keep going." - Winston Churchill
    3. Re:Thank you for legitimizing bittorrenting by nacturation · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Last time I checked they also pretend to not make any money. They may report huge gross income and brag about biggest box office sales ever, but somehow they never make a net profit (even before the days of internet piracy).

      Yeah, it's too bad that Titanic, which cost $200M to make and grossed over $2B worldwide ended up losing $200M. A shame indeed.

      --
      Want to improve your Karma? Instead of "Post Anonymously", try the "Post Humously" option.
    4. Re:Thank you for legitimizing bittorrenting by Joce640k · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I hope the ISPs bill the monitoring of users at 25% of the cost of enforcement, therefore paying nothing to the RIAA.

      Even better, bill it at 50% and ask the RIAA to make up the difference. The RIAA uses the same sort of accounting on artists so it's only fair....

      --
      No sig today...
  2. Eh... by Pojut · · Score: 3, Insightful

    They instead should have figured it based on how likely the Act would have come into law had the copyright holders not lobbied.

    If the answer is "not likely at all", then the copyright holders should foot the bill.

    1. Re:Eh... by Pojut · · Score: 3, Insightful

      How do you figure? It's something that directly impacts the ability of ISPs to provide customers with the same quality of service for the same cost...while NOT enacting the Act wouldn't affect the ISPs in any way.

      This is purely being done in the copyright holders' interest, with zero positive effect for the public or ISPs. Why should one company have to either increase the cost to their customers or reduce their own bottom line because another company had the means to buy a law?

  3. What do UKers think? by Dyinobal · · Score: 3, Insightful

    'Protecting our valuable creative industries, which have already suffered significant losses as a result of people sharing digital content without paying for it, is at the heart of these measures... We expect the measures will benefit our creative economy by some £200m per year and as rights holders are the main beneficiaries of the system, we believe our decision on costs is proportionate to everyone involved.'

    Wow this quote is gold, I am curious how those of the UK will react. Seems a load of tripe to me.

    1. Re:What do UKers think? by TheRaven64 · · Score: 5, Informative
      This quote was the one I found particularly offensive:

      The Government is indirectly subsidizing the Creative industry by taxing the internet industry and giving the taxes to Rights Holders

      No they aren't. As a member of Britain's creative industry, and someone who has been a 'victim' of copyright infringement, I doubt I will see a penny of this money. It is a subsidy on the litigation industry, not the creative industry. Those of us who actually do create things are more worried about turning potential customers into real customers than suing people.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    2. Re:What do UKers think? by TooMuchToDo · · Score: 4, Interesting

      How can we become your customer (I'm a fan of putting my money where my mouth is)?

    3. Re:What do UKers think? by eudaemon · · Score: 3, Interesting

      So you don't mind if we restore copyright to something 10-15 years, then, since the likelyhood your getting paid is almost nil in any case?

    4. Re:What do UKers think? by MoonBuggy · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Those of us who actually do create things are more worried about turning potential customers into real customers than suing people.

      I feel like this should be shouted from the rooftops.

      It's getting depressing the amount of time, money and effort the government is spending in the vain hope of protecting some special interest groups who generally speak for a tiny minority of the creative industry. What's worse is the amount of collateral damage in the form of both technical and legal measures that can be used to infringe on our freedom to speak.

      Copying someone's hard work without paying for it is a dick move. Restricting said work with onerous DRM so that it's not possible to pay for a copy that can be used as one wants, or taking my money on the assumption that I'm infringing your copyright, or crippling the connection between my PC and monitor, or trying works up in copyrights so long that we'll never see them made public in our lifetimes, or tracking my online behaviour, or any number of other moves made by the entertainment industry lobby, is such colossal asshattery that the initial act of infringement pales in comparison.

    5. Re:What do UKers think? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      As a member of Britain's creative industry

      If you're not a "Rights Holder", you're nobody. If you merely produce "creative" things but hand over the rights to someone else, you're no more part of the creative industry than a lettuce-farmer is part of the fast-food industry.

    6. Re:What do UKers think? by delt0r · · Score: 3, Insightful

      This is depressingly insightful. It has never been about the artists. Or they would be permitted to be independent.

      --
      If information wants to be free, why does my internet connection cost so much?
    7. Re:What do UKers think? by schon · · Score: 5, Insightful

      fewer people would go into the music business if they had no way of providing for their loved ones if they died an untimely death.

      Yup, just like fewer people would go into the janitorial business if they had no way of providing for their loved ones if they died an untimely death.

      Or fewer people would go into the plumbing business if they had no way of providing for their loved ones if they died an untimely death.

      Or fewer people would go into the lawyer business if they had no way of providing for their loved ones if they died an untimely death.

      So - if people won't go into "X" business unless they can guarantee they'll get paid for years after they're dead, how does anything get done?

    8. Re:What do UKers think? by TheRaven64 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      10 years would be fine. My sales drop to close to zero after 3 years, so I doubt it would affect me much, other than by giving my publisher an incentive to commission new stuff more frequently.

      This, by the way, is exactly what the Gowers report, commissioned by the last UK government, recommended. Labour extended copyright terms shortly after reading this report. Apparently we're getting more of the same from the ConDems.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    9. Re:What do UKers think? by TheRaven64 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      You could buy something from this page, if you can find something that you find interesting.

      I've not tried for a while, but Google used to return a pirate download site as the first hit when you searched for my Xen book's title. Some asshat also decided to post a copy of the PDF version to the Xen Devel mailing list a while ago. I don't encourage piracy, but I don't see the point in doing anything that harms legitimate customers in an attempt to reduce it, which is why I added a clause to the contracts for all of the books that I've written (the third one's due out later this year) forbidding the use of DRM in the eBook editions.

      I recently talked to a guy in India who pirated my second book. His family's income for a week is about the cover price (he's using it to learn GNUstep - he can't afford a Mac either) so I've clearly not lost anything from his piracy - he couldn't have afforded it anyway, and he wrote a positive review of it so I might have got some sales out of that.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    10. Re:What do UKers think? by mcgrew · · Score: 4, Insightful

      As a copyright holder I wouldn't object to a twenty year term (and I have two registered copyrights that would have expired if that were the case), but I object vehemently against the insane lengths of today's copyrights. Having a copyright last longer than a human life hinders and harms creativity. Like science and technology, art is built on what has come before. Imagine how badly technological innovation would be stifled if patents lasted as long as copyrights? These insane lengths help nobody but corporations.

      Cory Doctorow credits the fact that anyone can read his books for free, whether hardcover from the library of downloaded from his website, for his status as a New York Times best seller. Nobody has ever been shown to have lost any real money to copyright infringement, but many have been greatly harmed by obscurity.

      Ten years is a little short; I wrote a series of journals back in 2003-2005 that I'm just now getting into book form. But OTOH I'm using the CC license; any noncommercial use is OK with me, and I'll thank anyone for uploading or downloading or torrenting or sharing in any other way. Like I saw on an indie music DC, "Be kind and burn a copy for a friend."

      Anybody who doesn't want anyone to see his work until it's paid for probably isn't very good.

    11. Re:What do UKers think? by TheRaven64 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      See: RIAA, MPAA, writer's guild,

      None of these are producing copyrighted works, they are organisations of lawyers representing the publishers who won't adapt. My publisher is happy to change their business model (see: Safari Books Online, InformIT) when they think it can make them more money. The RIAA and MPAA (and writer's guild, although to a lesser extent) are groups of lawyers who would rather change the world than change themselves.

      Richard Stallman and his freakish infectious copyright ideals.

      I don't really disagree with Stallman - I've signed a copyright assignment with the FSF for the GNUstep stuff I've done and my (second) Objective-C runtime is a GNU project. Stallman's ideas are quite simple - creating is harder more valuable than copying, so that is what should be financially rewarded. The copyright system exists so that you can do the hard bit (creating something original) for free and then get people to pay you for doing the easy bit (creating copies of it).

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
  4. It should go both ways. by Zeek40 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    If they're being forced to foot the bill to protect the Right's Holders interests, ISP's should start getting 25% of the profit the Rights Holder's make from those Interests.

  5. Re:taxation without representation by commodore64_love · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Corporations should have zero rights. The people INSIDE the corp has all the various right due a human being, but a corporation should have no more rights than a rock or tree or cow.

    --
    "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
  6. It's only fair... by thestudio_bob · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It's only fair that if you are "subsidizing" an industry because of claims of "lost profit", then said company should open up their books so the public can see what losses they are talking about. And I guarantee that ain't going to happen.

    --
    The real Sig captains the Northwestern. This one captains /.
  7. Shooting the messenger by southpolesammy · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Would you penalize those that build highways for giving road racers the smooth and long pavement on which to drive recklessly? It's not their fault that people choose to break the law (or in this case, violate copyright).

    I don't see how it's the responsbility of the providers to be liable for their customers use or abuse. That smacks big time of collusion in politics. Who in the UK parliament is supporting this bill?

    --
    Rule #1 -- Politics always trumps technology.
  8. Re:Good by click2005 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Most of the public wont hear about it. The companies that lobbied to get this Act passed are
    very closely connected to the companies that show most of the people their news & current events.
    Filesharing in the media is almost always shown in a bad way and they never mention it's legal uses.

    --
    I am a free slashdotter. I will not be modded, blogged, DRM'd, patented, podcasted or RFID'd. My life is my own.
  9. Let's get our definitions right by serutan · · Score: 3, Insightful

    By "creative industries" they mean of course, "businesses that sell copies of other people's work and pay the creators a tiny portion."

  10. Re:interesting... by mcgrew · · Score: 3, Insightful

    So the people who pirate are forcing the ones who don't to help rights holders regain a portion of revenue that would otherwise be lost to them.

    Nobody has ever been shown to have lost a penny to piracy, but studies show that music pirates spend more money on music than non-pirates. There is no revenue lost to piracy. Most people have a limited amount of money. If a broke college kid pirates a $900 image editor, the publisher didn't lose any money because the kid didn't have the money to spend in the first place. In fact, it might result in a sale of that program down the road, because college pirate is now employed and is likely to buy the later, updated version of the software rather than the competitor's because that's what he's used to and comfortable with.

    If he hears a song he likes on the radio and shells out $20 for the CD, only to find that there's only one good song on it, he's going to stop buying CDs from that artist and maybe even that publisher. In that case, a sale has resulted in lost sales.

    If he spends $20 on two indie CDs, that's $20 he doesn't have to spend on one RIAA CD, and the label has indeed lost a sale -- but not to piracy.

    There is one instance where piracy can hurt sales, and that's when the content is crap. If a crappy movie gets on the net before it's released, people will find out it's crap and not go see it.

    Piracy only hurts crap. It helps good content. The people who pushed for this law are selling crap.