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Honda's Exoskeletons Help You Walk Like Asimo
kkleiner writes "Honda has created two walking exoskeletons based on Asimo research that assist humans in walking. The Bodyweight Support Assist exoskeleton is a set of thin legs attached to a seat. Users sit on the seat and slip their feet into shoes on the robotic legs. This system supports bodyweight to assist people in walking and moving up and down steps. The other, Stride Management Assist, is a brace worn around the hips and thighs that provides added strength when flexing that joint. It's currently under development and being tested by 130 patients in the field. Both devices may prove to be valuable tools in helping the elderly maintain their mobility, assisting the disabled, and easing the stress on physical laborers."
"VTEC kicked in, yo!"
*zips up the stairs really very fast* BRAAAAAAAAAAAAMP!!! (VTEC sound)
With a legbrake turn at the top of the landing.
Any dude who has ever had a bike seat interact harshly with their crotch area will likely cringe when they think a little bit about this one. It's a powered crutch... that uses your crotch instead of your armpits.
Ryan Fenton
Well, I wonder what will happen when the exoskeleton will be infected by a virus. Same question with the pacemakers and other stuff assisting life.
Given that all the stupid computers in hospitals are running windows, this threat is actually already there, and does not seem to have caused many problems so far. Yet, I'm still very anxious to see these things more and more popular.
Write boring code, not shiny code!
Fantastic innovation, but doesn't look aesthetically pleasing. Looks like you have a two legged spider between your legs ...
When they mention physical laborers, I start wondering if these type of exoskeletons will restrict us in some areas too. Would I for example be able to run as fast with one as without one? What about jumping or dodging to avoid a fast moving object?
We are all God's parents.
http://singularityhub.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/honda-exoskeleton-walker.jpg
Did they really need to put a man there? I feel the pain in my nuts already.
I'm amazed at some of the comments posted so far.
What happens when it gets a virus. Most likely a closed system that doesn't allow you that type of access. I highly doubt the system runs on windows. More likely a low power computer based system with little access to the programming. Doubt they would want you tinkering with that for safety reasons.
Crotch issues... the device maintains constant support when using the device. You are not bouncing up and down on it. So no, there are no crotch issues any more than their would be for sitting for long periods of time.
Doesn't look aesthetically pleasing... if you needed the device for mobility do you think you would care? Powered wheelchairs don't look that great either, but that is not going to stop someone who needs the assistance.
Restrictions while using device... Duh...
My X-Rays were delayed once because a virus got into the radiology systems. The images came on CD with handy DLLs which I would not have touched even if I used windows.
http://michaelsmith.id.au
"Well, I wonder what will happen when the exoskeleton will be infected by a virus"
Just something like this...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Wrong_Trousers
The one with the legs a bit too bent and like you have no calf muscles?
No sig today...
Honda is quite far behind in this technology.
http://www.cyberdyne.jp/english/robotsuithal/
Thankfully it's not Toyota because people might not be able to stop running when a floor-mat gets stuck under its feet because we all know the accelerator would have been positioned there.
I've always wanted to walk through a sim city as a sim.
"Kill 'em all and let Root sort 'em out"
become crazy mechas in Japan
Given that all the stupid computers in hospitals are running windows, this threat is actually already there, and does not seem to have caused many problems so far. Yet, I'm still very anxious to see these things more and more popular.
With a year's experience working in a public hospital purchasing office I found (without searching) many critical security flaws in the processes. For example, the European Procurement Announcement agency regularly sends catalogs of EU-wide procurements in CD's that require Windows and autorun to function. The CD would start a web server off the disk and launch Internet Explorer to interface with the server. In other words, we regularly executed programs from CD's we got by mail in a very simple (and easy to replicate) packaging, on the same computers we use to make very expensive purchases (believe me, hospital equipment isn't cheap).
But can you toss an alien queen out an airlock with it??? Inquiring minds want to know!
Yes, exactly! Cyberdyne Systems is a Good Company!
Not to sound to cruel, but I see this being overused more by people who are simply lazy. Every time to goto a store, I see overweight folks using the electric karts to scoot them selves around so they can fill their baskets with oreos and ice cream... That and old people..... I always tell people I am "pro death panel". We simple can't afford to keep pumping cash into machines such as this to keep 90 year people moving around.
Just like the electric scooters that were targeted for the elderly and disabled, and then hijacked in droves by morbidly obese 30-somethings at Wal*Mart and Disney World, I predict that fat people around America will clamoring for these.
Well, I wonder what will happen when the exoskeleton will be infected by a virus.
The user will be like the proverbial spastic who walked past a magnet factory and kicked himself to death.
You just watch... even if it is against your will. These elderly-assist technologies will be used to help the aged make their own porn. The exoskeleton can probably set to "hump" and it does all the work for them with risking a broken hip. Soon we will be hearing lines like "Help! I've orgasmed and I can't get up."
Folks, this is going to be very bad.
This reminds me a lot of an advertisement in the Solo of Fortune magazine released for the Cyberpunk pen & paper RPG.
"Russian cyberleg not pretty, but no matter when kick hole in tank, yes?"
http://www.pen-paper.net/rpgdb.php?op=showbook&bookid=1106 This one. Very funny read.
Coz eternity my friend, is a long *ing time.
It seems like with this machine, you are just one software bug away from castration.
"It's too bad that stupidity isn't painful." - Anton LaVey
...that's all fine and well, but can it make you walk like Awesom-o?
Living With a Nerd
By myself, without any add-on.
What I cannot do is walk like Michael Jackson.
When he was alive, I mean.
Does this have motors and batteries, or just springs?
I can see applications for these kind of devices in physio/therapeutic settings, where for example kids with cerebral palsy, spasticity, and incoherent/underdeveloped motor skills in general can learn how to move properly. The device can provide a restrictive function (prevent limbs or torso flailing around uncontrolled...passive devices like braces are already used for that) and simultaneously provide an external "correct" way of moving about. Basically teach the body/brain the proper way of moving (such as walking) through externally-provided motion. In time, the body may get used to it and incorporate it in its own movement muscle programming.
Problem with these kind of things is always, you read about it on the Internet, say wow...great idea...and then at least a decade goes by until things like that show up in actuality anywhere near you. In the meantime you battle stupid smirks by doctors, who've never heard of such things, when you try to talk to them about what you believe to be a very valid therapeutic approach.
The title has the name of the song all wrong...
Excuse me, but please get off my Pennisetum Clandestinum, eh!
...like that: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ASoCJTYgYB0
No thanks ;)
The reason you have not heard of virus problems in hospitals is the same as always: The hospitals bury their problems.
Excuse me, but please get off my Pennisetum Clandestinum, eh!
Now for some cheeeese...
Mechanical seven league boots, eh ? Hopefully users realise that unless some basic precautions are taken, using the boots results in having one's feet twenty-one miles apart causing unacceptable groin strain.
What a depressingly stupid machine.
Most of the people I see here in the States with "mobility problems" are grotesquely fat.
What load capacity will these things have?
The movie Wall-E predicts the future of the human race pretty well, IMO.
We already have a million big blobs on little scooters riding around Wal-Mart buying Twinkies.
why not get rid of all physical jobs with robot
then what jobs will hte stupid people do.....act? Sing?
can't have everyone do that cause we can soon get rid of need for both of them too.....
MY oh my what will we do when three are no jobs left.....
I can see the use in many areas, but i know most of us are expecting a video of them kicking trough walls or jumping over buildings. Right now they just seem like a giant diaper with legs.
As a person with some mobility issues due to nerve damage, I can certainly see myself using such a device as this. After watching the selected movies of it in action, I could visualize how the forces that this machine exerts, would assist cases like mine. I have difficulty controlling my legs. I know this machine doesn't actually make the decisions about muscle control, but it still would help a segment of people with some nerve damage that affects the force and feedback required for steady motion. If some of the forces required to walk were reduced with an aid, then control would be improved. You see, as you exert more force you become more unstable because the nerves to fire the muscles aren't firing strong enough, no do they react or give feedback the same way, as those loads increase. Lighter loads are easier. Remove some of that muscular force required to stand and walk and you would become more stable. It's not just about simply removing dead weight from the legs. With this I would focus less about how hard I need to exert those forces and far more on the control for balance and movement if half the strength needed was removed. It would make a big improvement to stability control. That makes a huge difference for people with some level of nerve damage in getting around safely without stumbling etc. I don't think most people see it this way when they look at this device in action. It's not all about strength.
Is there any reason why the exoskeleton should have any vulnerabilities to viruses? I can't see a reason you'd put a USB port, an optical drive, or Internet access on one of these. I mean, I suppose you could somehow flash the virus into the circuitry, if you had that kind of access to it, but for an end user product, how likely is that?
I don't think you're going to see lardasses using exoskeletons within your lifetime, at least.
Exoskeletons are not going to be cheap, and insurance (of any sort) isn't going to pay for them just because you're too slovenly to lay off the Ho-Hos. In fact, I think that's part of the problem with devices like these: Insurance companies want to be convinced of "medical necessity" before they pony up the money for medical devices. It would not surprise me at all if insurance companies denied claims for the exoskeletons on the basis that users don't "need" them when there are perfectly good motorized and manual wheelchairs around.
Does the machine start flailing your legs around uncontrollably and doing the splits?
I'd be very worried about tripping over wearing one of those things...
No sig today...
I'm a coder, and I like coding, but sometimes I wonder about making robots.
Imagine if you made it so if you pull the arm to one side. Then instead of stopping, the device kept moving you arm around your body, and ripped off a limb. You can't dismember yourself doing code. Exoskeleton development could be dangerous if you don't know what you're doing.
God spoke to me.
So how much will have to be modified from the base design to allow them to assist in acrobatics, jumping, or even in assisting in landing after falling/jumping from an uncomfortable height?
this came out about a year ago. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pp4XUvgqkbU, and the hip robot a year before.
Well, at least these might be less in the way when all the fat, lazy people at Wal-Mart have to use them to get around to buy their cheese doodles and soda pop.
Down with the career politician! SUPPORT TERM LIMITS
The military. I for one don't welcome our new robot overlords.
With more and more devices allowing and requiring firmware updates, it wouldn't be so surprising to have to hook up these legs to a computer occasionally to upgrade the control software. This would leave it open to attack in many ways. Many people who bought the movie Avatar complained about the need for a firmware update just to watch the movie, when you have software controlling your leg movement (or assisting, whatever) what is to say that there won't be bug fixes, or even modifications to the software for a persons personal leg gait.
APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
nuff said.
Is this a joke?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VTlV0Y5yAww
What's next?
Swim like an Anvil(tm)?
Fly like a Potato Sack(tm)?
Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent. Polar Scope Align for iOS
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ASoCJTYgYB0 Let's hope they ironed out a few of the problems, otherwise we will have a lot of broken humans.
The solution is to design the exoskeleton so it physically has a limited range of motion, so that it will damage itself or run up against the range of the joint before it will injure you.
"Imagine if you made it so if you pull the arm to one side. Then instead of stopping, the device kept moving you arm around your body, and ripped off a limb. "
That's why you design in adjustable POSITIVE MECHANICAL STOPS.
Analogy: Cars are complex, guardrails less so, for appropriate reasons.
"This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
I immediately thought of what it would look like with a pair of thin bicycle tires between the ankles, and additional tires (and supporting enhanced robotic arms) strapped to my forearms. Make the exo suit into a full body resting couch, then skitter across concrete like a water bug in a pond.
bend like the reed
...they've improved it, because I wouldn't want to fall like Asimo.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ASoCJTYgYB0
can I buy one of these and tell people to bite my shiny metal ass?
Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
With more and more devices allowing and requiring firmware updates, it wouldn't be so surprising to have to hook up these legs to a computer occasionally to upgrade the control software. This would leave it open to attack in many ways. Many people who bought the movie Avatar complained about the need for a firmware update just to watch the movie, when you have software controlling your leg movement (or assisting, whatever) what is to say that there won't be bug fixes, or even modifications to the software for a persons personal leg gait.
I think you're looking at this like it's an electronic device. For purposes of testing, it's not. It's a medical device. If there's some bug in the controls, they're most likely going to be found and fixed in clinical trials. This isn't like a drug, where different people might have unpredictable (or at least, difficult to predict) adverse events. All this skeleton has to do is a) hold the patient's weight, and b) walk. I could foresee a desire to make the exoskeleton walk faster, but that's a mechanical fix, not a software one. There aren't going to be updates to program in line dancing or breakdance moves. The exoskeleton is designed to do one thing: walk. Why would they mess with that? Even if they did add features or improvements to the system, they wouldn't do firmware updates. They'd sell them as new models, just as they do when they add features to other medical equipment.
Besides that, there's not a lot of DIY going on in wheelchair repair. Mostly, you call a surgical supply store, and they either come to you, or you go to them. I can't imagine this would be much different.
The military. I for one don't welcome our new robot overlords.
These contraptions are nothing more than proof of concept. The military as well as police and rescue will be the largest sector to purchase man amplification rigs. Read the book Starship Troopers by Heinlein. This is where it's headed.
Firefighters and rescue workers can bring the equipment with them, jaws of life, fire retardant, medical supplies, stretcher and be able to move in relative safety.
The videos showed two different versions of walking machines, yet how many people realize that they are separate components that work together?
The mind conceives, the body achieves, the spirit manifests.
back in 1994. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M.A.N.T.I.S.
And his had awesome darts and a cool helmet.
... ala Starship Troopers?
Check your premises.
Sure, you can walk with this exoskeleton... but can you boogie???
I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
How do you suppose they program the unit for people with different length legs? Or people with limited range of motion?
There are many uses for software updates, unfortunately, there are still also reasons against. I was just mentioning that it is entirely possible for there to need to be updates, and some reasons why. Why would you make everyone buy a new exoskeleton when a simple firmware update would fix the issue? These legs could cost near $10k, think of it more like a car, you don't throw away your Camry because it has an accelerator issue, you update firmware to correct the issue.
APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
How do you suppose they program the unit for people with different length legs? Or people with limited range of motion?
They would be pre-programmed, just as wheelchairs are custom-designed for different sizes, shapes, and range of motion for people. Different lengths of legs isn't a programmatic problem, anyway. That's a design issue. Naturally, the exoskeleton is going to have to be fitted for each person.
Why would you make everyone buy a new exoskeleton when a simple firmware update would fix the issue?
Personally, I wouldn't force anyone to buy a new exoskeleton for an update. But it's not an uncommon practice to make someone buy new software if they want the new features. And there's more than enough examples in the car industry to bear that out. Last year's model often has fewer software features than this year's model. And sure, you might not have to pay for fixes on your car's systems if they're the fault of the manufacturer, but you often have to send them back to the dealership to have them do the updates. You don't download the updates to a USB stick and put them in your car.
I would rather design those robotic legs give support from the sides and not from between the legs. With current design walking and standing doesn't look that comfortable.
My X-Rays were delayed once because a virus got into the radiology systems. The images came on CD with handy DLLs which I would not have touched even if I used windows.
Another reason to NEVER use Windows for anything even remotely important.
With the first link, the chain is forged.
...cue scenes from The Wrong Trousers.
Should be harder to fear the machine when you're giving your cyborg granny a hug.
I call BS. That statement generates fear.
If my grandma had freedom of mobility and other cyborg backing, I would fear for those near her.
If an entire older generation had cyborg backing, they would be even less likely to relinquish control to the younger generations.
Which, as the mess regarding medical tubes shows, does not mean that it is subject to meaningful safety regulations.
Actually, a friend of mine who uses an electric chair has turned to friends for repair a few times, because wait times for "authorized" repair were too long. Now, this was simple stuff like loose connections, but the idea of DIY firmware updates isn't completely out-of-bounds.
Tom Swiss | the infamous tms | my blog
You cannot wash away blood with blood
Are you certain that there's an actual web SERVER that is run from a CD?
I find that just a bit too convoluted and potentially problematic in terms of compatibility issues that may pop up. I think it's more likely that there's just a set of web pages that are stacked in a particular structure and linked together. No actual active components.
Also in such (or any other) scenario autorun is by no means required. Ever. Autorun just helps you execute the initial action automatically (as the name suggests). You could always do it by yourself if you just browsed to a proper file on a CD and opened it. So disabling autorun and educating users on how to start a CD-based app could solve a problem or two.
The scurvy dog that would virus a wheelchair, artificial arm or yer leg helpers is the blackest, most evil bastard this world has seen. I personally would have the filthy animal executed that does this.
If video games influenced behavior the Pac Man generation would be eating pills and running away from their problems.
Agreed.
APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
Which, as the mess regarding medical tubes shows, does not mean that it is subject to meaningful safety regulations.
I think the medical tubing issue is a red herring, in terms of safety. Plugging the wrong tube into the wrong device is user error, not a problem with the safety of the tubes. The nurse in question needs to be paying attention. If you look at the original article, the mix-up highlighted was truly moronic. Even a nurse on his/her first day of work should be alert enough not to connect a feeding tube to an IV.
In the case of the exoskeleton, all the legs need to do is support the patient's weight, and walk. Anything preventing the exoskeleton from doing that would also prevent it from leaving clinical trials. About the only failure points I can see would be mechanical, which you can't fix with a firmware update.
Actually, a friend of mine who uses an electric chair has turned to friends for repair a few times, because wait times for "authorized" repair were too long. Now, this was simple stuff like loose connections, but the idea of DIY firmware updates isn't completely out-of-bounds.
I've done repairs on my manual wheelchair, as well. It's not too hard to replace a pneumatic tire, but once you start getting into the solid inserts, there's more expensive equipment involved. And if you're talking about frame adjustments, that's not something the user should be doing by his/herself.
Now, as far as firmware goes, I can't imagine why a manufacturer would even want people upgrading the firmware themselves. A medical device like this isn't something you code a mod for. It's something you leave alone unless you have reason to do otherwise. The most rational way to handle firmware upgrades would be the same way they handle bug fixes in cars: You send a letter issuing a recall, and upgrade the users in the shop where they bought the device.
+1x10^1000
A design that allows such a user error to occur is indeed a safety issue with the equipment. Even skilled people in perfect environments have lapses, and nurses are rarely working in perfect environments. If you don't account for that, your human factors work is flawed -- in this case, quite literally fatally flawed.
I am just speculating here, but I would not be surprised if some para-athletes are doing some pretty heavy adjustments on their chairs.
Maybe so -- but it's not like everyone takes their car to the dealer, or even to an ASE certified mechanic. I wouldn't want to buy a exoskeleton that could only be dealer-serviced any more than I'd want to buy a car whose hood was locked and could only be opened by the dealer.
Tom Swiss | the infamous tms | my blog
You cannot wash away blood with blood
A design that allows such a user error to occur is indeed a safety issue with the equipment. Even skilled people in perfect environments have lapses, and nurses are rarely working in perfect environments. If you don't account for that, your human factors work is flawed -- in this case, quite literally fatally flawed.
There have been cases where surgeons have accidentally left an implement inside a patient after surgery. Is that a safety problem with the implement involved? I wouldn't think so.
I am just speculating here, but I would not be surprised if some para-athletes are doing some pretty heavy adjustments on their chairs.
Maybe so -- but it's not like everyone takes their car to the dealer, or even to an ASE certified mechanic. I wouldn't want to buy a exoskeleton that could only be dealer-serviced any more than I'd want to buy a car whose hood was locked and could only be opened by the dealer.
Yes, but this isn't a car. A wheelchair is the equivalent of your legs. Would you want just anyone tinkering with them? You might not wan to take them to a specific dealer, but you'd want them to at least go to a qualified mechanic. It would be a very serious design flaw if your roommate could prank your firmware while you slept.