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Stuxnet Worm May Have Targeted Iranian Reactor

yuna49 writes "Analysis of the Stuxnet worm suggests its target might have been Iran's nuclear program. "Last week Ralph Langner, a well-respected expert on industrial systems security, published an analysis of the Stuxnet worm, which targets Siemens software systems, and suggested that it may have been used to sabotage Iran's Bushehr nuclear reactor. A Siemens expert, Langner simulated a Siemens industrial network and then analyzed the worm's attack. Experts had first thought that Stuxnet was written to steal industrial secrets, but Langner found something quite different. The worm actually looks for very specific Siemens settings — a kind of fingerprint that tells it that it has been installed on a very specific Programmable Logic Controller (PLC) device — and then it injects its own code into that system."

78 of 322 comments (clear)

  1. So....the CIA wrote it? by wandazulu · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Sounds eerily similar to the Siberian Pipeline explosion but, had it actually worked, the consequences could have been much much worse.

    1. Re:So....the CIA wrote it? by Wyatt+Earp · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Nope, Israel.

      The Saudis, UAE or Qatar have strong interests in Iran not going nuclear, but military computer science stuff is going to be Israel, Russia, China or the US, my money is on Israel in this one.

    2. Re:So....the CIA wrote it? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      CIA?

      Researchers studying the worm all agree that Stuxnet was built by a very sophisticated and capable attacker

      doubtful.

    3. Re:So....the CIA wrote it? by erroneus · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Definitely. Using more conventional power generation technologies, they are a target for aerial bombing. If a nuclear power plant were to be bombed, any sort of disaster might occur making the bomber look extremely evil. (The only way they could hope to get away with it is to make the bombing look as if it came from Iran itself.) In any case, enemies would be less inclined to attack a nuclear power plant as opposed to conventional ones.

      As to who is responsible for the targeted malware? I can't imagine.

    4. Re:So....the CIA wrote it? by amicusNYCL · · Score: 3, Insightful

      That's a very idealistic view. There are several people who would argue that destroying Iran's nuclear capabilities is actually protecting lives, not destroying them. Of course, that all depends on Iranian government intentions. But considering the many discussions held in Iran about destroying Israel, a world without Israel, etc, it's not exactly a stretch to imagine that Iran would use its nuclear capability to attack Israel. It's also not difficult to imagine that Israel would attack Iran's nuclear program, as they have in the past with Iraq and Syria. Iran's program would be the first operational Arabic nuclear program that hasn't been destroyed by Israel before becoming operational.

      Israel does not live in an idealistic world, from their point of view they can't afford to not attack an enemy nuclear installation just because there's a guy there sweeping the floor who may get killed.

      --
      "Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
    5. Re:So....the CIA wrote it? by Wyatt+Earp · · Score: 2, Informative

      In the case of a nuclear weapons program, you want to destroy the facilities to make the weapons, not just knock out power lines.

    6. Re:So....the CIA wrote it? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Iran is not an arabic country. They are actually quite different than the surrounding countries and this is way Ahmadinejad is sticking his neck out as much as he does.

    7. Re:So....the CIA wrote it? by mrops · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Apparently you have never called an Iranian "Arab". Iranians take it personally.

      Iranian's don't like being called Arabs; A) They are Persians, B) They feel proud being associated with the Persian empire and the culture they inherited.

      In fact, during my miss-fortunate discussion calling an Iranian an Arab, I felt the individual almost felt insulted.

    8. Re:So....the CIA wrote it? by Tailhook · · Score: 5, Informative

      What does this say about reactor safety system design?

      Nothing, because the entire scenario (adjust parameters...meltdown) is a fiction that exists exclusively inside your head.

      The reactor is a Russian PWR that follows contemporary design principles and has parity with western reactors. The ECCS is not subject to the exclusive control of vulnerable PLCs. Safety systems aren't networked together in Ethernet broadcast domains waiting for stuxnet infections. Worst case; control rods can be inserted manually and feedwater/HPCI/LPCI pumps activated manually regardless of the state of any given PLC. The manual controls on these safety systems are deliberately simple for a reason.

      Maybe a really clever attack designed to confuse operators into making the wrong decisions (see TMI-2 1979) could produce core damage. This still isn't some containment free RMBK graphite bomb reactor like Chernobyl. Contained PWR designs are more forgiving; they don't contaminate things even when they do melt down.

      --
      Maw! Fire up the karma burner!
    9. Re:So....the CIA wrote it? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      So some innocent people should die for the sake of crimes that might be commited in the future?

      That's the same bullshit excuse used to justify nuking Japan. Most Americans are completely stupid. They claim that nuclear weapons are terrible and should never be used and anyone who uses it is evil, but the minute someone brings up the fact that America is the only country to use it, they suddenly backtrack and claim that it was used to "save lives" based on military estimates.

    10. Re:So....the CIA wrote it? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      But considering the many discussions held in Iran about destroying Israel, a world without Israel

      Citation needed.

      AFAIK Iran has never advocated the destruction of Israel with a "kill all jews" kind of vibe. What Iran has said is that they'd like to see the current government (of Israel), which from their point of view is based on aggressive nationalistic idealism and presents a threat to Iran and the world, become a thing of the past.

      Besides, Iran nuking Israel is one of the dumbest things they could do. It is not advocated by Iran, instead it is advocated by various US right-wing/neocon publications as their wet dream which supposedly hastens the "return of Jesus" (through the battle at Armageddon as told in the Bible). Yes, seriously.

      What is missing from this seemingly exciting fiction of Iran wanting to nuke Israel is the fact that it would be suicide, and no matter what you may have been told or heard, the Iranian leadership is not stupid. They play a good game of geopolitical chess.

      You must understand that Iran is sitting on top of a vast pile of resources (e.g. oil). Given that similar neighbouring countries have already been invaded (Iraq, Afghanistan) or otherwise succumbed to the US sphere of influence (e.g. Georgia), Iran has every right to try to acquire any defensive measures it can. So far Iran has demonstrated that they want to live in peace without being invaded or having to give up their resources to someone else. Is that somehow bad?

      Besides, if Iran is not developing nuclear bomb capability, they most certainly should! Iran obtaining nuclear bombs is the only thing that will pacify the Middle East. It will create a stand-off where a MAD scenario prevents further aggression between Iran, the arab states and Israel. This includes the usage of any nuclear bombs. This will force the parties to negotiate.

      If you're afraid of Iran getting the nuke, are you not worried of some nutjob buying/bribing themselves such a device from Pakistan?

      Just sayin'.

    11. Re:So....the CIA wrote it? by amicusNYCL · · Score: 2, Informative

      I'm well aware of the differences between Persians and Arabs, and I'm aware that much of the Iranian population is Persian, though certainly not all of them.

      But the government is not Persian, it is Arabic. Throughout their long history, Persians have repeatedly been invaded and conquered. Persia was first conquered by Muslim Arabs in 644. Many Persians refer to the 1979 revolution as the second Arab invasion of Persia.

      The deposed Shah of Iran was a Persian. He was replaced with a Muslim Arabic government. This is the current ruling party of Iran, not Persians. The Persians aren't threatening to destroy Israel, Arabs are.

      --
      "Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
    12. Re:So....the CIA wrote it? by _Sprocket_ · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Yeah, you've got a idealogical lunatic running the country (I think we've heard that joke before) but he'd be gone by now if the mass media didn't think that MJ's funeral was more important than protestors being gunned down by the Iranian goverment.

      Right. Because the US being all concerned about politics in Iran will bring about political change in Iran? Doesn't everyone get all antsy when the US takes interest in foreign politics? And isn't Iran among the least likely to take political cues from the US (or the rest of the MJ-living world, for that matter)?

      Seriously, wanting to persue peaceful nuclear power isn't an issue. Hell, if they wanted warheads they could just BUY them.

      Really now. And who's going to sell them to Iran? Always better to have your own means rather than be dependent on others. The idea that this is all about peaceful application is still very suspect.

    13. Re:So....the CIA wrote it? by amicusNYCL · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Citation needed.

      See above.

      AFAIK Iran has never advocated the destruction of Israel with a "kill all jews" kind of vibe.

      When your conference is called "A World Without Zionism", the "vibe" is pretty obvious.

      What is missing from this seemingly exciting fiction of Iran wanting to nuke Israel is the fact that it would be suicide, and no matter what you may have been told or heard, the Iranian leadership is not stupid.

      Apparently someone has told you that Muslims are afraid of death or dying. There's a documentary called My Trip To Al-Qaeda by Lawrence Wright, highly recommended. One of the insights he comes out with is that, through his discussions with jihadi fighters, they tell him that one of the differences between them and us is that we love life, and they love death. All of the rewards they will get, all of the salvation and good times, happen after they die, not before. A suicide mission for a jihadi is the way out, that's the reason they're there, that's the end game for them. It's not something they fear, it's something they look forward to. And their people venerate them for that.

      Iran obtaining nuclear bombs is the only thing that will pacify the Middle East.

      Right, because if there's one thing we know about fundamentalist Muslims, it's how rational and reasonable they are. How many people were killed in the riots in Afghanistan over the possibility of some douche in Florida maybe burning a Koran at some point in the future? Reason and rational discourse don't exactly play a huge role in these people's lives.

      If you're afraid of Iran getting the nuke, are you not worried of some nutjob buying/bribing themselves such a device from Pakistan?

      Absolutely, but I don't even think that's the biggest threat. I think the biggest threat is the Soviet nukes that are unaccounted for. When the Soviet Union collapsed, there were a lot of local military commanders that were looking to make some cash selling the hardware they controlled.

      --
      "Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
    14. Re:So....the CIA wrote it? by dave562 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      It seems like you've been drinking too much media Kool Aid without bothering to do your own research or critical thinking. All well thought out analysis points to Iran wanting nuclear weapons as a defensive measure. Despite what you see portrayed on television, the Iranians are a bit smarter than you seem to give them credit for. Nuking Israel would result in the total annihilation of Iran. Even if they manage to get a nuke to Hamas, nuclear forensics are very advanced these days and it would be traced back to Iran.

    15. Re:So....the CIA wrote it? by NotBornYesterday · · Score: 3, Informative

      Seriously, wanting to persue peaceful nuclear power isn't an issue.

      That's not the real issue here.

      Hell, if they wanted warheads they could just BUY them.

      Even if they could do so without the transaction somehow gummed up by the CIA, the Mossad, et al, buying nukes on the black market doesn't solve the problem from Iran's point of view. Iran wants to be able to homebrew these things and grow an arsenal. Buying the goods premade is more suited to a terrorist organization; a) bent on destruction of a specific target, and/or blackmail, b) without the resources (land, modern, standing armed forces, especially air & air defense) to build and protect fixed facilities.

      --
      I prefer rogues to imbeciles because they sometimes take a rest.
    16. Re:So....the CIA wrote it? by Score+Whore · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Well you quoted the relevant line yourself and I don't see the word nuclear. All I see is "specific plant." However the fact that it looks for specific things in specific devices could mean that it's looking for specific weaknesses that they authors of the worm know about. A specific weakness doesn't mean a specific target.

    17. Re:So....the CIA wrote it? by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Unless the plant design is some ghastly soviet relic(and possibly even then) it should be possible to force a shutdown without actually breaching the fuel containment or causing any appreciable contamination of the environment.

      Cooling systems, for instance, tend to be big, and more or less have to be either aboveground(for massive air exchange) or next to a nice cool body of water. And, since they are cooling systems, hiding their IR output is going to be a trick. If you lose your cooling system, you have not that much time to drop the moderators into the core and shut the thing down, or get a nice pile of molten radioactive slag that has to be entombed more or less forever.

      Any decent design will have a failsafe in place to deal with cooling failures in a recoverable way and a plant design has to be serious shit for the coolant failure to cause a meltdown that breaches containment.

      Dropping a series of bunker busters right into the containment vessel of the reactor itself would, indeed; be deeply tactless and unlikely to win friends; but a nuclear plant has other vital systems...

    18. Re:So....the CIA wrote it? by GodfatherofSoul · · Score: 4, Funny

      As an American, I am frightened and angered by suspicious level of knowledge combined with your lack of jingoism. I can only assume that you are on the side of the terrorists. I'm watching you.

      --
      I swear to God...I swear to God! That is NOT how you treat your human!
    19. Re:So....the CIA wrote it? by ArcherB · · Score: 3, Interesting

      It seems like you've been drinking too much media Kool Aid without bothering to do your own research or critical thinking. All well thought out analysis points to Iran wanting nuclear weapons as a defensive measure. Despite what you see portrayed on television, the Iranians are a bit smarter than you seem to give them credit for. Nuking Israel would result in the total annihilation of Iran. Even if they manage to get a nuke to Hamas, nuclear forensics are very advanced these days and it would be traced back to Iran.

      Nuclear weapons, by their very nature are NOT defensive. Land mines are defensive. Bunkers are defensive. Nuclear weapons are a means of attack, thus offensive.

      Nuking Israel would result in the total annihilation of Iran.

      All part of the big plan. The fifth imam, or whichever number he is, can not return until the "world" is destroyed, much as Jesus will not return until Israel is destroyed. The difference is that Christians are not trying to destroy Israel to hasten the Second Coming.

      --
      There is no "I disagree" mod for a reason. Flamebait, Troll, and Overrated are not substitutes.
    20. Re:So....the CIA wrote it? by guygo · · Score: 2, Interesting

      No, the NSA

    21. Re:So....the CIA wrote it? by TheCarp · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Actually, I have seen some claims that it wasn't even based on military estimates as actual military estimates put the estimated loss of life for a mainland invasion at FAR LESS than the fanciful public numbers. Howard Zinn have a great talk on this called "Three Holy Wars".

      Not to mention that the invasion of the mainland wasn't necessary, Japan was pretty much defeated before the first bomb dropped.

      I liked Zinns way of asking what if we reverse the question and ask "What if we could end WWII right this moment, today, but to do it, we would have to kill 100,000 American children." Why are japanese ok to kill but, Americans are somehow deserving of life?

      I don't buy the whole us vs them meme. For me "them" is anyone who believes that fighting a war ever helped anyone.

      -Steve

      --
      "I opened my eyes, and everything went dark again"
    22. Re:So....the CIA wrote it? by amicusNYCL · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Yeah, that sounds familiar. Several years ago there was an article in National Geographic about Persia and the current Persians. It was a very interesting read, much of it talked about the ability to lie or deceive, which is a very important trait to have. Since Persians as a people have been conquered or invaded so many times, they have learned that they cannot speak openly about what they believe. They make a big show of being hospitable (and actually are), they smile and talk, but the people interviewed mentioned how this isn't actually what they're like. In private they're different, but in a culture that is constantly being invaded and attacked, they've learned that it is in their interests not to openly talk about what they really believe. No doubt many Persians harbor ill feelings towards Arabs and the religion they brought with them, they still see them as invaders.

      --
      "Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
    23. Re:So....the CIA wrote it? by cowdung · · Score: 3, Informative

      Iranians don't like to be called Arab because:
      1. They aren't arab:
            a. they aren't descended from the arabs; they aren't semitic, they are aryans (Iran = Ayran = land of aryans)
            b. they don't speak arabic, they speak persian (called farsi in their language) which is an IndoEuropean language closer to English than arabic
            c. Most arab muslims are sunnis, Iranians are Shiite

      2. Iranians have sought to make themselves distinct from the Islamic Empire since about 500 years ago when they mostly became Shiite and revived the persian language and have since tried to revive their "Persian Empire" root. For example, at the beginning of the 20th Century a general took over, called himself King and claimed to be related to the ancient "Pahlavi" dinasty.

      3. Because of this, Arabs are often portrayed in Iranian accounts of history as uncivilized crowds of destroyers that came to destroy the noble ancient Persian culture. So 20th Century Shah's saught to foment alliegience to the ancient culture rather than Mecca in an effort to secularize the country.

      4. Secularization backfired in 1979 when the clergy took over power. However, the new clergy fancies itself the "true Islam" and still distinct from Arab Islam.

      3. As a result of this, anti-arab prejudice runs deep among Iranians :)

    24. Re:So....the CIA wrote it? by amicusNYCL · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Nuking Israel would result in the total annihilation of Iran.

      Ahh. And you're assuming that the extremist Arab Muslims want to live long, happy lives here on earth, right? Islam's rewards happen in death, not life. There's nothing for a fundamental Muslim in this world other than armageddon. Why does an Arab care if Persia gets destroyed?

      If you were a fundamentalist jihadi fighter, what would you believe your rewards in the afterlife would be if you destroyed the enemy of your religion? Would that be a good thing or a bad thing? How about the way your family and friends would see you, would they be proud of you for attacking their eternal enemy or embarrassed because you caused so much death?

      Don't make the mistake of assuming that Muslim mentality is anything like what your experiences have been. Priorities are completely different.

      --
      "Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
    25. Re:So....the CIA wrote it? by makomk · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I'm inclined to believe that no matter how difficult the language may be to translate, someone speaking on the world stage would be able to enlist enough advisors to craft a speech that avoids massive "lost in translation" pitfalls.

      If they were accidental, yes. The trouble is, there are one or two organisations who like to deliberately come up with... interesting translations of his speeches and send them to the press, and the press just laps it up.

    26. Re:So....the CIA wrote it? by amicusNYCL · · Score: 2, Informative

      Wouldn't the current president count? His mother is believe to be descended from Muhammad's bloodline. The VP, Mohammad-Reza Rahimi, is from Kurdistan Province. Many Kurds are also Arabs. I believe the Larijani family is also Arabic, descended from an Ayatollah.

      --
      "Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
    27. Re:So....the CIA wrote it? by OeLeWaPpErKe · · Score: 2, Insightful

      And then ... Iran dumps nuclear waste in the nearest orphanage and tells the world your bombs did it.

      What you're saying is a great idea, with a press that checks it's facts and or honest enemy. On both counts, our own press and Iran can be considered to be somewhat lacking ... and we all know what the entire world press is just dieing to believe ...

    28. Re:So....the CIA wrote it? by OeLeWaPpErKe · · Score: 2, Informative

      Actually Saddam had claimed it to be operational quite a few times at that points. Israel attacked just after the last component that was absolutely necessary for it's operation was installed. Perhaps something similar is happening here ?

      Ahmadinnerjacket is certainly not above lying.

    29. Re:So....the CIA wrote it? by couchslug · · Score: 2, Informative

      "Persians aren't threatening to destroy Israel, Arabs are."

      Persian inaction is consent. If the Persians view remaining as serfs under Arab masters to be a problem, they should revolt and kill all the Arabs.

      The solution to being mastered by an ethnic enemy is ethnic cleansing.

      --
      "This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
    30. Re:So....the CIA wrote it? by dave562 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You sound like a fundamentalist Christian wack job who is just as dangerous as the Muslims that you seem to have a problem with. Given that we're close to or past Peak Oil at this point, does it really seem so far fetched that the Iranians want a different energy source? Even if they are building a bomb, they are a long way from having a delivery system. Even if they get a delivery system, they are unlikely to use it for the reasons stated.

      Last I checked there are a bunch of Fundamendalist Christians in the United States armed forces. Does that mean that we're about to start the rapture to bring about the second coming of Christ? What makes you think that the the Arabs are any more likely to do so in the Middle East?

      You have to realize that what leaders say in public to appease their people, and the actions that they take in private are often times very different.

      Get a subscription to Stratfor. Do some research.

    31. Re:So....the CIA wrote it? by PCM2 · · Score: 4, Informative

      I'm sorry, but your view of Iran seems very skewed and you're being modded as Informative when really you just seem to be voicing your own opinions.

      Persia was first conquered by Muslim Arabs in 644.

      One thousand, three hundred and sixty-six years ago, yes. I hardly think this comes into play in modern Iranian politics. The idea that there's some sort of insidious infestation of Arabism that has festered in Iran for over a thousand years seems pretty silly. Also, the idea that Iranians were converted to Islam by force has been mostly discredited.

      Many Persians refer to the 1979 revolution as the second Arab invasion of Persia.

      "Many" is a weasel word. The ones you've been listening to apparently believe that. But this interpretation ignores the fact that the 1979 revolution in Iran was largely a populist political revolt against a brutally oppressive regime backed by the foreign interests (the U.S.). Some people protested the societal changes that came with the new Islamic state, yes. But the vast majority welcomed it.

      If Iran was "invaded by Arabs" in 1979 and everything since has been part of some big Arab conspiracy, how do you explain that the majority Muslims in Syria, Iraq, Jordan, Yemen, and Kuwait are Sunni, while Iran is a Shi'a republic?

      And if Iran has been "invaded by Arabs" since 1979, how do you explain the events of 1980 when Iran was, oddly enough, invaded by Arabs? Iran fought a bloody war against Iraq for the next eight years.

      And when Mahmoud Ahmadinejad talks about improving his countries ties with "Arab nations" and "the Arab world," what's he doing -- putting up a front for appearances' sake? Your comment elsewhere that his mother "is believed to be descended from Muhammad's bloodline" doesn't hold much water.

      Likewise your comment that Larijani must secretly be an Arab because he's the son of an Ayatollah doesn't make sense either. You don't have to be an Arab to be a Muslim, and your insistence on conflating the two smacks completely of jingoism, despite what the other responder says.

      --
      Breakfast served all day!
    32. Re:So....the CIA wrote it? by cbeaudry · · Score: 2, Informative

      You are wrong. They are Persian and speak Farsi predominantly. Arabic is a second language.
      60 % of the Iran population is Persian, the rest is a mix.

      Educate yourself.

    33. Re:So....the CIA wrote it? by PCM2 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Ahh. And you're assuming that the extremist Arab Muslims want to live long, happy lives here on earth, right? Islam's rewards happen in death, not life.

      Muslims no more believe in "rewards in death" than do Christians, who also believe in the afterlife. Your bigotry against Islam here does you no service.

      --
      Breakfast served all day!
    34. Re:So....the CIA wrote it? by cbeaudry · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Zionism is a nationalistic political movement. It does not = JEW.
      Many jews around the world are AGAINST Zionism.

      Putting whole country (Iran) into the same boat as a religious extremist group like Al-Qaeda, is beyond idiotic.

      Leaders of a country the size of Iran have much more at stake and much more to consider than the single minded goals of a few nutjob imams.

      Comparing Iran with poor, repressed and backwater afghani people is ignorant.

      The level of education in Teheran and other Iran cities is quite high.

      You basically know absolutely nothing about what you are commenting on.
      You come off as an ignorant, hate mongering idiot.

      Though I'm not surprised you where voted +5 insightful I am ashamed that Slashdot has such ignorants amongst its ranks.

      I see no more of a threat from Iran than from Egypt for example. Only bullshit propaganda from Israel and the US on behalf of Israel.

    35. Re:So....the CIA wrote it? by amicusNYCL · · Score: 2, Informative

      The idea that there's some sort of insidious infestation of Arabism that has festered in Iran for over a thousand years seems pretty silly.

      I doubt Persians feel the same way. Only 50 years ago Persians had a vibrant arts culture, with music and poetry. The Islamic Revolution put a stop to that. That's hardly ancient history.

      "Many" is a weasel word.

      What, like "mostly discredited"?

      If Iran was "invaded by Arabs" in 1979 and everything since has been part of some big Arab conspiracy, how do you explain that the majority Muslims in Syria, Iraq, Jordan, Yemen, and Kuwait are Sunni, while Iran is a Shi'a republic?

      I don't know enough about the region to provide an explanation for why the denominations of Islam are located where they are, but I never claimed conspiracy.

      And if Iran has been "invaded by Arabs" since 1979, how do you explain the events of 1980 when Iran was, oddly enough, invaded by Arabs?

      I don't see how that requires an explanation. Like you pointed out, Shia Muslims were fighting Sunni Muslims during the Iran-Iraq war.

      Likewise your comment that Larijani must secretly be an Arab because he's the son of an Ayatollah doesn't make sense either.

      I'm pretty sure I said "I believe", not "He must be". I could not find an answer for his ethnicity, only his parentage.

      --
      "Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
    36. Re:So....the CIA wrote it? by dave562 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The missile doesn't care if its warhead is nuclear or conventional.

      The trigger mechanism sure does.

      I don't think they share those same concerns. They don't care about dying as long as they kill the enemy. Preservation of life is not their primary goal, destruction is.

      Where do you get your information from? Prime time news? Late night TV? There are a lot of factions in this country who want us to attack Iran. Don't be a tool. Use your head. Iran is the only thing standing in the way of US hedgemony over the Middle East. Of course you are going to be told that they are fanatical wack jobs who are a threat to everyone.

      The Iranians are having a hard enough time keeping the regime together. People want power here and now, in the present. They use religion as a vehicle to obtain that power. There might be some wack jobs who believe in an afterlife and paradise and virgins. They are not a significant enough majority to build a bomb and use it, despite what the talking heads on the idiot box might be telling you.

    37. Re:So....the CIA wrote it? by dave562 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Our beef is with anyone who gives us a reason to maintain boots on the ground in the most resource rich region on the planet. If you kid yourself into believing anything else you are deluded. Al-Qaeda sucks and all, but more people die every year in motor vehicles than Al-Qaeda has ever killed for as long as they have been around. Yet for some reason we haven't declared war on Ford and Toyota.

      I feel bad for the Israelis but they are every bit as off their rockers as the Arabs are. We really should nuke the holy land and be done with it. That way nobody gets it anymore and they can find something else to fight over. Nuke the Temple Mount for World Peace.

    38. Re:So....the CIA wrote it? by russotto · · Score: 2, Interesting

      One thousand, three hundred and sixty-six years ago, yes. I hardly think this comes into play in modern Iranian politics.

      Ha. Grudges are held so long in that part of the world it makes the Sicilians look positively forgiving.

    39. Re:So....the CIA wrote it? by PCM2 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      That last passages describes exactly what jihadi martyrs hope to achieve by dying. On earth they live in a world full of suffering, violence, fear, and humiliation, which all goes away once they die and gets replaced with grace and paradise. Modern Christians do not live in the same hostile environment as Muslims do.

      Except, I guess, for the modern Christians who live in the Middle East? What does "the same hostile environment" mean, anyway? Are you implying that every Muslim interprets the Koran the same way you -- a non-Muslim -- have chosen to? There are Muslims living right down the street from me who have absolutely nothing in common with your "jihadi martyrs". I could go over to their place right now and borrow a cup of sugar. Likewise, a good friend's cousins live in Iran right now. They are nice, pretty girls who like skiing.

      Or are you implying that whackjob Christian fundamentalists never harmed anyone? Timothy McVeigh said he was at peace with his God, and I'm pretty sure he didn't mean Allah.

      But I think we're getting closer to the real foundation of your posts today, which is that A.) that you hate Islam, probably because you're a fundamentalist Christian yourself or close to it; B.) you therefore hate Arabs because you believe all Muslims are Arabs or Arab-controlled; and C.) that these beliefs do, I'm afraid, make you a bigot.

      --
      Breakfast served all day!
    40. Re:So....the CIA wrote it? by Cassius+Corodes · · Score: 2, Informative

      Its difficult to explain in a logical fact-based way why that perception might be the case (and I don't know enough locals to say one way or another) but Persians do dislike (hate?) Arabs. Persians feel their culture is superior to that of Arabs. The current regime has in the past and currently cracked down on certain cultural traditions that are not in line with Islam. This has been interpreted by some commentators as Arab cultural imperialism - and from there its not hard to see how an perception that their leaders are (culturally if nothing else) Arabic.

      --
      Control is an illusion, order our comforting lie. From chaos, through chaos, into chaos we fly
    41. Re:So....the CIA wrote it? by uninformedLuddite · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Welcome to Western media 101 - Iran's reactor bombed by West. Iran blamed for irradiating orphans - More crap at 11

      --
      The new right fascists are bilingual. They speak English and Bullshit.
  2. Some people don't care how many others they screw by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    There's one non-secular country in the world that is famous for it's disregard for anyone but itself and its fundamentalist religious belief in their own specialness in the eyes of their own god, which they believe justifies their evil actions.

    The truth is some evil people will do anything for wealth and power.

  3. Smooth by Platinum+Dragon · · Score: 2, Funny

    Brilliant - let's get one up on the Iranians by messing with their nuclear reactor controls! What could possibly go wrong?

    If true, this is reckless endangerment, and the people involved - government-backed or lone wolves - should be prosecuted. Just because the Iranian government is full of militaristic and theocratic jerks does not give anyone the right to endanger the lives of any old (or young) person living or working in and around that facility. Indeed, it's the kind of stunt that can only push their ruling class farther into paranoia and fear, the kind tha leads to... nuclear weapons development.

    --

    Someday, you're going to die. Get over it.
    1. Re:Smooth by Tragek · · Score: 3, Informative

      Hence why no one knows where it came from.

    2. Re:Smooth by interkin3tic · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Brilliant - let's get one up on the Iranians by messing with their nuclear reactor controls! What could possibly go wrong?

      Maybe less than would go wrong if Iran got the bomb?

      I don't know how likely that is, but I'm guessing whoever did this probably has a different calculus than I do for weighing the two, like (Iranian civilian deaths)= 0.1(own civilian deaths). So from their perspective, probably not much could go wrong.

    3. Re:Smooth by GameboyRMH · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Which makes sense. If those guys aren't total retards, the control PC is airgapped from the Internet, it might be on a secure LAN (as secure as they can be with Windows machines on them) but most likely airgapped. So your most probable method of infection is via flash drives.

      Now the nuclear facility is going to have guards so you release it somewhere that it will get on an engineer's PC - on their home file server from the sidewalk, send them an email to a site that will do a drive-by download, or ideally you social-engineer them into letting you switchblade their laptop (if the engineer is a guy (99% chance), pay a classy hooker to dress up nice, flirt with the guy, say she's an aspiring model and give him a flash drive with her "portfolio" containing some hastily snapped photos so it looks legit...you'd plug it in too, but you'd be more careful than someone without an IT/CompSci background). From there the virus is programmed to spread over USB storage so all you can do is hope and wait, and hopefully the virus reaches the target machine before people notice the outbreak...so you make the virus as unnoticeable as possible.

      And the Stuxnet worm was first discovered in Iran and went unnoticed for a long time...

      --
      "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
  4. World War III by Sonny+Yatsen · · Score: 2, Funny

    And Iran is probably going to blame Israel and then the shit hits the fan and it's WWIII. And we're all dead. Seriously, this is the kind of stuff that gives me ulcers.

    --
    My postings are informational and does not constitute legal advice. Act on it at your risk.
    1. Re:World War III by ultramk · · Score: 5, Informative

      Iran already blames Israel, for pretty much everything including why the crops fail. I mean, christ, they made the 100th anniversary of the original publishing of "the protocols of the elders of zion" (you know, the anti-semitic forged pamphlet) into a national holiday. It's not like things could get any worse.

      The only reason that Iran doesn't attack Israel is because they know that Israel has nukes, and the will to use them with very little provocation. Even for those countries who would likely come down on Iran's side in any conflict, how many of them have any military to speak of? How many have nukes? Even one?

      Really, it's in Israel's best interest that Iran starts hostilities and the sooner the better, before Iran gets nukes. In many ways it would actually stabilize the region to have Iran beat down somewhat--you know, at least from Israel's perspective.

      Also, you should know by now that ulcers come from infection, not stress. Seriously, there was a Nobel Prize and everything.

      --
      You catch enchiladas by picking them up behind the head and holding them underwater until they don't kick anymore -VeGas
    2. Re:World War III by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      Infection is not the only cause of peptic ulcers. Nonsteroidal anti-inflamitory drugs, for instance, are just one example. Further, stress may not directly cause ulcers, but has been found to exacerbate existing conditions that lead to peptic ulcers.

    3. Re:World War III by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Iran wants to provoke a conflict with Israel. It doesn't want to start one. There is apparently an Islamic sect that believes in their version of Rapture and they believe it will be triggered by Israel's attack on Iran. Iran cannot be the aggressor here - that's the belief at least. Iran will then be saved by the 12th Imam. And that's the Islamic version of Rapture.

      "Our revolution's main mission is to pave the way for the reappearance of the 12th Imam, the Mahdi," Ahmadinejad said in the speech to Friday Prayers leaders from across the country.
            http://analysis.threatswatch.org/2005/11/understanding-ahmadinejad/

      There are a number of crazzy sites that "predict" stuff about him,
            http://www.satansrapture.com/hitler2.htm

      "Bush said: 'God said to me, attack Afghanistan and attack Iraq.' The mentality of Mr. Bush and Mr. Ahmadinejad is the same here - both think God tells them what to do," says Mr. Mohebian, noting that end-of-time beliefs have similar roots in Christian and Muslim theology."
          http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/1221/p01s04-wome.html

      Really, it's in Israel's best interest that Iran starts hostilities and the sooner the better, before Iran gets nukes.

      Iran will not start hostilities :)

    4. Re:World War III by mr100percent · · Score: 2, Insightful

      In many ways it would actually stabilize the region to have Iran beat down somewhat--you know, at least from Israel's perspective.

      That was the thinking by the Neocons and the far right in Israel when the choice was made to attack Iraq, but it wound up backfiring. Israel felt and probably is much less safe now, since it galvanized the Arab world to cooperate with Israel even less and support "reisistance" groups like Hamas even more (Iraqi politicians like Muqtada Al-Sadr are now supporting them), and swung Iranian public opinion toward throwing out the moderate Khatami and voting for Ahmadinejad (the first time at least), and the expansion of training camps in Iraq meant that Israel now has long-term problems. Israel's generals can't say it openly, but in many conversations to the press it's been treated as a given that the whole misadventure put the region on less stable footing and has overall hurt Israeli security.

    5. Re:World War III by alexo · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The only reason that Iran doesn't attack Israel is because they know that Israel has nukes, and the will to use them with very little provocation.

      Assuming that the Wikipedia article is correct, Israel has had nuclear capabilities (~20 bombs) during the '73 war and did not use it, even though the Arab military success at the beginning of the war was definitely more than "very little provocation".

    6. Re:World War III by alexo · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Probably because they didn't need to. Israel counterattacked with conventional weapons so successfully that they were forced to give up the land they gained. It was a complete rout.

      Eventually.

      According to many sources, at the first stages of the war though, there was panic at the top. So much in fact that the nuclear option was seriously considered. Read about it, fascinating subject.

  5. Oh Noes! by ByOhTek · · Score: 2, Funny

    The worms in the reactor will eat the fuel rods, become radioactive, mutate, and destroy/dominate the world!

    * Preemptive defense against the person who will take this post seriously: I realize most mutations have no significant effect, most of the remainder are harmful, and the chances of a slightly beneficial mutation, let alone a highly beneficial mutation is highly negligible. This post is for humor sake only.

    --
    Self proclaimed typo king, and inventor of the bear destroying coffee table (patent not pending).
    1. Re:Oh Noes! by tacarat · · Score: 2, Funny

      That's not entirely true. Scientists have found that most creatures with radioactivity induced mutations take on an applewood bacon smoked flavor. The intensity of the flavor peaks when they start glowing, though.

      --
      "Common sense will be the death of us all"
  6. Begun, the Cyber Wars Have. by Rashkae · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Looks like national cyber security is about to get a much higher priority than copyright protection.

  7. They Can't Be That Stupid... by IonOtter · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Why in the Hell is Iran connecting their nuclear reactor to the Internet???

    Either Iran is unbelievably stupid, or they've got some blindingly incompetent IT people working at that plant. And considering the international attention that plant is getting, you'd imagine that any incompetent operators would have been sent into the desert to look for minefields while wearing clown shoes long ago.

    --
    [End Of Line]
    1. Re:They Can't Be That Stupid... by makomk · · Score: 3, Informative

      Which is why this malware has multiple infection routes, including USB sticks.

    2. Re:They Can't Be That Stupid... by daremonai · · Score: 2, Informative

      They're not connecting it to the Internet, so far as I know. The speculation in the article is that the Russian contractor building the facility brought in infected PCs for the control system. Coincidentally(?), the contractor (AtomStroyExport) had its own website hacked recently.

    3. Re:They Can't Be That Stupid... by Caerdwyn · · Score: 4, Interesting

      One of the most effective ways to penetrate a company is to drop a couple of USB sticks in their parking lot with some "special" autoinstalled software. Someone sees it, picks it up, takes it in side and plugs it in to see what's on it. A few boring things, maybe a naked picture of someone, and a rootkit.

      I've worked for a couple of companies which have had security audits performed on them that included hiring outside firms to do "social engineering" penetration tests to see how good the employees are about that sort of thing. It's strange... someone who won't be fooled by "we're from IT and need your password" sweet-talk and who would never open an attachment to an email will happily stuff a flash drive into their computer. The penetration testing firms tell me they almost always get a hit with the USB drive trick. (And, for the record, one of my companies passed the test, 100%. Woot! Let's not talk about the other, though...)

      So yeah, physical devices > air-gap.

      --
      Everybody gets what the majority deserves.
  8. speculation anyone? by superstick58 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Ugh, what a terrible article. There's no firm conclusions at all, just mindless speculation. Here's some gems: "The only thing I can say is that it is something designed to go bang" and "'If I had to guess what it was, yes that's a logical target' he said, 'but that's just speculation'"

    This could be an interesting topic, but unfortunately, it is turned into a pointless article spewing wild guesses. And the findings are to be submitted in a closed door security meeting? WTF? I guess we'll never know.

    I have programmed many PLC's in my day, but unfortunately not Siemens. Does anyone have experience with siemens that can comment on the mysterious operational block 35?

    1. Re:speculation anyone? by shadowrat · · Score: 4, Funny

      i have analyzed windows running on an isolated machine. While it's seemingly random crashes seem harmless enough, if this were to happen on the right system under the right circumstances, the results could be devastating! My conclusion is windows was engineered to be installed at norad and thwart a nuclear counterstrike by presenting inaccurate progress bars representing the ETA of incoming soviet warheads.

    2. Re:speculation anyone? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      OB35 is a an interrupt function which is periodically called by a timer, generally every 100ms.
      If you were to inject malicious code into OB35, it would be periodically executed, assuming that OB35 was loaded onto the controller in the first place.
      No idea what this code might be expected to do. Crash the software running on the PLC maybe.

    3. Re:speculation anyone? by peacefinder · · Score: 2, Informative

      The mere fact that it's speculative does not make it a terrible article.

      Considering the nature of the malware, the apparent difficulty of extracting information from it, and the sensitivity of the information already disclosed, I'd say it's a pretty fine write-up. It tells you what they know and can disclose, tells you there's more they can't disclose, and that there's still mroe that they know they don't know.

      I mean seriously, hooray for forthright honesty here. No one is pretending to certainty that they don't have, which puts it in the top 1% of journalistic articles right there.

      --
      With reasonable men I will reason; with humane men I will plead; but to tyrants I will give no quarter. -- William Lloyd
  9. Rrrriiight. by bmo · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Siemens PLCs are everywhere. Same with GE and others. They run everything from nuke plants to little benchtop lathes and aerospace applications. How this person decided that it *had* to be the Iranian nuke plant baffles me.

    How does he know that it wasn't targeted at various military targets? Iranian medium and short range missile installations also come to mind. Does he *have* the Siemens PLC configuration from the nuke plant in his hot little hands? Or does he even have the model numbers?

    Reading TFA, no.

    Peterson believes that Bushehr was possibly the target. "If I had to guess what it was, yes that's a logical target," he said. "But that's just speculation."

    Well, there you go. Nothing to see here.

    That's not to say that actual cyber-warfare is not happening, but to come out with wild-ass speculation and present it as newsworthy reminds me of Fox "News" and the rest of the Murdoch "empire."

    --
    BMO

    1. Re:Rrrriiight. by elrous0 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Yeah, why won't Iran just hand over the specific serial numbers for the logic controllers in their nuke plants? Would you like them to give you their military cryptography keys too, why they're at it?

      --
      SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
    2. Re:Rrrriiight. by amicusNYCL · · Score: 2, Informative

      They run everything from nuke plants to little benchtop lathes and aerospace applications. How this person decided that it *had* to be the Iranian nuke plant baffles me.

      That's exactly what I first thought, that a country would use its resources (you RTFA'd, right?) to attack benchtop lathes around the world. It must be just a coincidence that the infection started in Iran and that 60% of infected computers are in Iran.

      --
      "Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
  10. Re:Some people don't care how many others they scr by amicusNYCL · · Score: 2, Insightful

    There's one non-secular country in the world that is famous for it's disregard for anyone but itself and its fundamentalist religious belief in their own specialness in the eyes of their own god, which they believe justifies their evil actions.

    Fundamentalist Muslims are not limited to one country.

    Intolerance isn't exactly limited to borders drawn on a map...

    --
    "Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
  11. Re:I'm still having a problem with... by amicusNYCL · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I'm still having a problem with......why ANY nuclear reactor or power plant needs to be directly connected to a computer network. I can see it having say a USB port for upgrades of controller firmware but a network connection? Nope.

    So you're saying that you can't see any use for having the two reactors on site both connected to the same control room? I mean, why the hell would people in one central location want to monitor both reactors at once, in real time, right? That's crazy!

    What do you think, that when someone needs to shut down or modify the parameters of a reactor or centrifuge that they actually walk up to the component and hit a button on it? What if they need to start 100 centrifuges at the same time, do they have 100 technicians standing there all on a giant conference call waiting for the "go" signal? If they want to check the current core temps or fuel levels, what do they do, call each one and ask them what the gauge says? What the hell do you think all of this equipment is for:

    http://www.upi.com/News_Photos/Features/The-Nuclear-Issue-in-Iran/1581/19/

    --
    "Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
  12. Re:Where did all the pseudo-/.ers go? by HiThere · · Score: 4, Insightful

    That's because it does. You just need to be a *little* slyer. (Not much.)

    This is one point where it really does matter what the target OS is. If your USB is vfat, then you can't have allow execute set to true. But if you use a properly targeted file system (say ext3), then you can set execution permissions. Or even just make it a tar.gz file, and when it's expanded, it ends up with execute permissions set. So you open a jpeg, and actually execute a script that opens the jpeg while executing something else in the background.

    (Allowing tar files so set the execute permission is a big weakness...and a vast convenience. But that should require running a separate script or chmod with root permissions.)

    --

    I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
  13. Re:Windows for Industrial/control use by Hijacked+Public · · Score: 3, Interesting

    It is the developer's tools available.

    The 'mission critical control system' in this case is a PLC, which directly controls the equipment. It doesn't even require that any consumer computer be involved for that to happen, although they often are to provide for data collection or operator interfaces or the like.

    But to get the PLC to control the hardware a person has to write logic for it, which was probably done in this case with Simatic S7, which is Windows only. The bulk of the above mentioned interface and data collection packages are Windows only as well.

    With a good design an industrial control system, because it is the PLC that does the work, will run along just fine even if PC based nodes crash. The new development with Stuxnet is that the virus is running on the PLC itself.

    --
    "Sacrifice for the good of The State" - The State
  14. Intulligents, er Intelegince, er, Intileignets. by TiggertheMad · · Score: 2, Informative

    This could be an interesting topic, but unfortunately, it is turned into a pointless article spewing wild guesses.

    yeah, the writer should have called up the Mossad, and asked to talk to the author so he could get some solid facts...

    Really, what do you expect from a story about what is obviously a covert operation?

    --

    HA! I just wasted some of your bandwidth with a frivolous sig!
  15. clever, nicely done, damn you by swschrad · · Score: 2, Insightful

    this was a high-level inside hack. somebody is going to go missing. where they came from or end up will tell you who really orchestrated this one.

    oh, and by the way, note that it was a broadcast inside hack, going all over Iran and elsewhere to get to the prize.

    tells you two things. one, Iran has the nuclear stuff very highly compartmented. the originators did not have access to ring 0 of the secret program despite presumably working for the contractor.

    two, there should not be any commodity stuff hanging on the side of any sensitive system. the worm got all over because there were Best Buy laptops running open market software.

    --
    if this is supposed to be a new economy, how come they still want my old fashioned money?
  16. Re:Windows for Industrial/control use by NotBornYesterday · · Score: 2, Funny

    Maybe instead of bombing them or infecting them with a worm, we should notify MS and the BSA that Iran is using pirated copies of windows in their nuclear program. The subsequent audit will slow their nuke operation to a crawl!

    --
    I prefer rogues to imbeciles because they sometimes take a rest.
  17. Bad move, politically by PPH · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The Bushehr reactor is operated under an international agreement, allowing Iran to operate it and generate power, but keeping the fuel under control of Russia. This was negotiated in order to allow Iran the capability to operate power generating facilities but keep the fuel cycle under control, avoiding diversion to weapons development.

    If anyone (outside of Iran) gets caught sabotaging the reactor, it supports Iran making the argument that outside powers (under control of the West and/or Israel) can't be trusted. It is in our best interests to see this plant suceed. It will support the idea Iran can deal sucesfully with the IAEA and others in the development of nuclear power facilities and medical uses.

    --
    Have gnu, will travel.
  18. Re:Some people don't care how many others they scr by ScrewMaster · · Score: 2, Informative

    Dude, Israel is not *that* evil. They just like poking the Palestinians with a stick by building settlements.

    They just like pissing off the rest of the Middle East by existing.

    --
    The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
  19. Re:Doing it wrong, if so by Will.Woodhull · · Score: 4, Interesting

    What everyone including parent post has so far overlooked is that the announcement of this story is ALL BY ITSELF damaging to the Iran nuclear development effort.

    Whatever the goal of Stuxnet might be, Iran must now spend time and effort checking whether all kinds of computer control systems include hidden time bombs... things that might do anything from overspinning centrifuges until they break to overheating core enough to warp the fuel rods and force their replacement. And the only sure way that Iran can proceed from this point is to replace all the PLCs with homegrown technology... but it would take them a decade or more to develop that technology on their own. I don't think they have any microchip manufacturing capability at all.

    All this has been accomplished at the very low cost of publicizing a few factoids within a very suggestive framing in such a way that third parties are going to fall all over themselves to do further investigation in ways that can only magnify the perceived risks. This is a perfect con game. The more so because even if someone comes out and says its a con, Iran cannot afford to rely on that. Stuxnet might not even have a payload, but it will still cause the Iran nuclear effort months of delay. Long enough, probably, to lay the groundwork for Son Of Stuxnet, whatever that might be.

    --
    Will