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Preliminary Finding Invalidates VoIP Patent

netbuzz writes "After a review, the US Patent Office has issued a preliminary finding that the Electronic Frontier Foundation calls 'an important first step in busting a patent that stifles innovation and the use of VoIP as a free speech tool.' (Here is the EFF's press release.) C2 Communications has used the patent to extract one-time payments from the likes of AT&T, Verizon, and Qwest."

12 of 77 comments (clear)

  1. Free VoIP by Algorithmnast · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Perhaps this will allow the Free VoIP providers to expand without having to worry about Death By Lawyer. Now where's my FIOS?

    1. Re:Free VoIP by popeye44 · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I have a question in cases like this, Assume you paid 1 billion dollars to this company. Can you now ask for it back because their patent was invalidated? "probably not I'm guessing"

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      Inane Comments are Generously Disregarded
    2. Re:Free VoIP by Algorithmnast · · Score: 4, Interesting

      IANAL, but I would think that if company A coerces company B into leasing rights to use a patented idea... then the contract would probably have a "too bad sucker" clause in it for just this possibility.

      In other words: the contract would either specify the answer and preclude a lawsuit, or it would (foolishly) leave the issue unanswered which might encourage the suit.

      Of course, even if companies sued and won the money back, they'd probably never see a penny - the company likely paid out all of its money to employees and/or stockholders. And you can't really sue them.

    3. Re:Free VoIP by iamhigh · · Score: 2, Interesting

      the company likely paid out all of its money to employees and/or stockholders. And you can't really sue them.

      Can we get this changed? I understand not being able to sue an employee that was just doing a job, but "stockholders" are owners of a company. They benefit when it makes money and suffer when it loses money. Why don't they also benefit (as in no intervention) when it does so legally, and suffer (through jail or fines) when it does so illegally?

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      No comprende? Let me type that a little slower for you...
    4. Re:Free VoIP by Rudeboy777 · · Score: 2, Funny

      Hand-delivery unlikely. That chair is getting sent by air mail!

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      From hell's heart I fstab at /dev/hdc

    5. Re:Free VoIP by Lunix+Nutcase · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I really wonder if it would be so bad.

      It would be. No one is going to invest in companies that they could be held personally liable for its actions. Why should some mutual fund investor (which make up a whole lot of investors) be held liable for the actions of some company just because the person running the mutual fund bought some stock in that company?

      Just seems like a big lack of responsibility and accountability.

      Most investors have little or no say in the day to day runnings of a company. It's not as if they have some direct feed into every single decision that the company makes or even have any sway at all over the day to day actions. So, no, it is not a lack of responsibility or accountability. If you want to hold someone responsible, you hold the person who authorized the wrong doing (usually some executive or board member) not the person who just happened to own stock in a mutual fund that owned stock in the company.

      To make this political, then why does Glenn Beck give a shit about "where the money comes from" so much?

      Because he's an blustering asshole? What Glenn Beck says or does means little to me.

      Why do New Yorkers care where the money for a mosque comes from?

      Because they are also assholes?

      The people investing have no accountability, right?

      It depends. If those people directly involved in the day-to-day running of the company and those people are directly responsible for ordering or personally carrying out a wrong-doing, yes. If it's some minority shareholder who has pretty much nil sway over how the company is run, no.

  2. Undermining progress to profit extortionists by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    If Americans don't rein in software patents soon, they're eventually going to turn us into a technological backwater.

    Can you imagine if mathematicians couldn't use certain types of calculations for 20 years if somebody else happened to use them first? What if fiction authors weren't allowed to use particular combinations of words if another author "registered" them for "protection"?

    As a programmer, I'm continually amazed by how backwards, technically-illiterate politicians are tricked (or willingly lead) into outlawing technological advancement. Make no mistake, that's what software patents do. There are a bunch of rationalized lies about "protecting innovators" -- but in the real world, software patents exist solely to profit a few extortionists who use them as an easy way to gain market share without actually inventing anything.

    In the real world, software patents do not protect innovations; they protect conceptual monopolists, and hinder actual innovations.

  3. Let's read the claims! by CajunArson · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Claim 1:

    1. A method of routing a full duplex telephone call between a first telephone set and a second telephone set using a public computer network as at least part of a communication link connecting said first and second telephone sets, comprising the steps of:

    receiving at a first computer network access port a first telephone call from a central office placed from said fist[sic] telephone set initiating said full duplex telephone call, said first telephone call specifying a telephone number of said second telephone set, without specifying additional telephone destinations;

    converting data received from the central office to an Intenet protocol;

    establishing a communication link over said public computer network between said first computer network access port and a remote second computer network access port;

    placing a second telephone call from said second computer network access port to said second telephone set using a PSTN;

    converting data received from the public computer network from Intenet protocol to a PSTN protocol; and

    connecting said first telephone call, said communication link and said second telephone call to thereby establish a telephone call between said first telephone set and said second telephone set.

    A little broad, but then again it was filed in 1995 which is over a year before H.323 was even published. Note the requirement of a PSTN: If you are just making a VoIP call over Skype this patent does not cover that since there is no PSTN. In fact, and Pure VoIP call is outside the scope of this patent. I wonder if the EFF had been around in the 1870's if they would have been accusing Alexander Graham Bell of "stifling free speech" with the original telephone....

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    AntiFA: An abbreviation for Anti First Amendment.
  4. Support the EFF by cesman · · Score: 5, Informative

    This is a fine example of why one should support the EFF. https://w2.eff.org/donate/index.php

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    When the source is open, the possibilities are endless.
  5. Re:So can AT&T, Verizon, and Qwest get refunds by mea37 · · Score: 3, Informative

    "Why would we offer you a refund? We offered in exchange for your payment a promise that we wouldn't sue under this patent, and we aren't going to!"

  6. For More Information by Grond · · Score: 4, Informative

    What's being announced here is a non-final office action in an ex parte reexamination. Basically, the EFF submitted some prior art that presented a 'substantial new question' of patentability and asked the Patent Office to review it. From there, the Patent Office and the patent owner hash things out; the prior art submitter's role is finished. (Prior art submitters can take a more hands-on role via inter partes reexamination, but that's more expensive and time consuming than ex parte reexam).

    Reexamination cases are a little tricky to look up because you have to find the control number for the case. The control number in this case is 90/009637, which you can plug into Public PAIR. Here is the non-final office action that is the subject of the post, since you can't link directly to documents in PAIR.

    The patent owner will have an opportunity to respond to this non-final office action. If the examiner is satisfied, then that's that. More likely the examiner will not accept the arguments or will have discovered new ones. Typically there are one or two non-final actions and then a final action. After that, the patent owner can still appeal to the Board of Patent Appeals and Interferences. From the time of appeal to a decision is, at median, a couple of years. From there the patent owner could still appeal to the Federal Circuit.

    So, while this is a preliminary finding, it is very far from definitive.

  7. Re:So can AT&T, Verizon, and Qwest get refunds by mea37 · · Score: 2, Informative

    What you (and, apparently, the moderators) don't seem to recognize is, it is not a perfectly acceptable argument. (I was aiming for "funny", not "insightful", with that particular post. I kind of worry how far we've slid if that isn't obvious.)

    What it is, is a satire of the sort of corporate weasle-speak that I would expect in that situation. Calling that argument "acceptable" sets up a form of legalized racketeering.

    Patent licenses shouldn't be treated as protection money / promise not to sue. They should be treated as the purchasing of a right, which it turns out the seller had no authority to sell.