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Digital Radio Mondiale, a Better Standard Than US-Adopted IBOC?

Gsparky2004 writes "Over at Engineering Radio, Paul suggests that Digital Radio Mondiale (or 'Digital Radio Worldwide') may be a better alternative than the US-adopted, proprietary IBOC system. But he's concerned that the FCC is too far down the 'IBOC is the way!' road and won't accept an open source alternative, even one that may work better." For a slightly more pointed take on the matter, check out this anti-IBOC site, which paints IBOC as something akin to the devil himself.

26 of 134 comments (clear)

  1. Wow! Amplitude Modulation! by Ecuador · · Score: 3, Insightful

    RTFA, it seems the fight is over the AM band! Interesting, given the fact that I am over 30 but still I don't remember a time when anyone cared about the AM band...

    --
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    1. Re:Wow! Amplitude Modulation! by hedwards · · Score: 2, Informative

      You obviously aren't into either sports or conservative talk radio. I think those have been the major uses of AM radio in recent years.

    2. Re:Wow! Amplitude Modulation! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      "I'd suggest hooking up an AM modulator to the line out of a music device, and they'll get their mushy distorted sound the way they like it."

      That is exactly what I do to show off my antique radio collection. Too bad you are so young that you have never heard a high-quality AM radio. They are neither mushy, nor distorted. Most AM radios made between 1953 and 1973 are of very high quality and high fidelity, capable of audio frequency response in excess of 15 KHz. AM radio sounded VERY good back in the day before the "loudness wars" started. There was also no, or very little, interference plaguing the band back then. Many of the devices you consider to be "improvements" in technology have been a factor in destroying the AM band due to the interference they create. ...now get off my lawn!

    3. Re:Wow! Amplitude Modulation! by theaveng · · Score: 2, Informative

      Try the internet. I listen to AM Liberal Talk radio from Chicago. http://www.streamingradioguide.com/ and a search for Rachel Maddow is how I originally discovered it.

      IBOC/HD Radio vs. DRM - there's no real difference

      (1) Both broadcast analog-and-digital side by side
      (2) Both are designed to transition to 100% digital broadcast at ~60 kbps on AM and ~250 kbps on FM.
      (3) Both cause interference with long distance stations ~100 miles away. Oh well.
      (4) Both will eliminate that problem when moved to 100% digital.
      .

      IBOC/ HD Radio has one advantage that Digital Radio Mondiale (DRM) does not have : Multiple programs. IBOC/HDR can broadcast 7 programs on a single station. For example my local station has Top40 hits on HD1, Dance music on HD2, 80s/90s on HD3, and a low quality traffic/weather channel on HD4. The DRM standard does not offer the same feature.

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  2. The Anti-IBOC site is an interesting read. by ProdigyPuNk · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Seems like these guys really know what they are talking about. Not only are they criticizing a position - they actually back it up with a bit of science. It really is disgusting to see any proprietary format, complete with royalty payments, forced by the government onto the populace. Makes me hate Clear Channel, et. al. even more.

    1. Re:The Anti-IBOC site is an interesting read. by theaveng · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Your color TV is proprietary (developed by RCA in the 1930s and again in the 1950s). Ditto your radio (FM also developed by RCA) and your VCR (developed by JVC) and your CD (Sony/Philips) and DVD (DVD Consortium).

      I don't see how that has destroyed society. Do you? On the contrary NTSC-I and NTSC-Color and FM and VHS (but not SVHS or DVHS) are all patent-free and open standards that benefit citizens everywhere. Eventually ATSC and HDR will be open too (around 2020).

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    2. Re:The Anti-IBOC site is an interesting read. by smpoole7 · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I'm a broadcast engineer who has installed several HD-R systems (two AM, three FM). My biggest complaint, and one that I've shared quite vocally in my own industry, is the *extremely* closed-source nature of HD radio. It's not just, "we've copyrighted it and you must pay for each use," it's, "we own it, the WHOLE THING is a top secret, and unless you pay us a huge fee, you can't even think about making modifications or adding anything to what we deem useful or appropriate."

      Just one example of many: the first exciters that we received used a very simple ID3 tagging scheme for the PAD data, sent via UDP to a well-known port. The "exporters" (the non-intuitive name for the devices that allow us to multicast, i.e., put more than one format on a single FM signal) use a closed, proprietary client-server model. I've looked at it with Wireshark and it appears that ID3 is imbedded in the packets, but it just wasn't worth the bother to try to figure out the whole thing. iBiquity ain't tellin' unless you pay them a license fee.

      I imagine that iBiquity assumed (and told their investors) that, because they'd have exclusive rights, it would be a Pot Of Gold(tm). That hasn't panned out, so they're desperately trying to monetize every little aspect of the system among those of who bit the bullet and paid (substantial, mind you!) fees to initially install it during the rollout. Want to add multicast channels? You pay for that. Want to add iTunes tagging? Ditto. OH ... and you want to write your own stuff to ride in the PAD (program associated data) slot, maybe customize something for your own station? Sorry, we don't support that yet, but we may eventually ...

      Instead, in this day and age of competition from all sorts of delivery sources (streaming, anyone?), it has simply slowed uptake to a crawl. Ford originally announced that they'd have HD receivers in their cars a few years ago. That slipped; they said it would be 2009 for sure. THAT slipped. Now we're almost in 2011, and there still aren't very many HD receivers in cars. They are supposedly going to do it in 2012, but I'll believe it when I see it.

      If iBuiquity had simply patented the delivery method (the "container," for you geeks here :) ) and made the license fees rational, HD-R would be in 80-90% of the stations in the United States. Instead, it languishes, and we (i.e., radio engineers) are looking at another AM Stereo debacle: we paid tons of money up front, promoted it to death, and it died anyway.

      As for going with DRM or some other system, that would be asking broadcasters to abandon their (substantial) investment in HD-R and make a completely new investment in a new system. I hope I'm not too cynical now, but I honestly believe that the future is in wireless streaming. Let's keep our streams clean and clear sounding, concentrate on programming, and when the inevitable coast-to-coast wireless coverage finally arrives, we'll already be positioned to survive. I think that moving to DRM now would be a mistake, myself.

      --
      Cogito, igitur comedam pizza.
  3. Re:What a strange name choice. by TheRaven64 · · Score: 2, Funny

    Yup, a French name and the acronym is DRM. It's like they were intentionally trying to make sure it had no adoption in the US.

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  4. Does anyone care either way? by Tx · · Score: 4, Insightful

    From where I sit, digital radio is a solution looking for a problem. In the UK, the BBC spent vast amounts of license fee payer's money (i.e. my money) investing in new DAB (the digital radio standard approved over here) stations. Then when it found no one was listening to DAB, and private stations were bailing out, rather than give it up, they spent more vast quantities advertising the f@*k out of DAB to try and boost take-up. And yet still I can count the number of people I personally know who own DAB radios on the finger of ... well, one finger, actually. It's four times as expensive to run a DAB station as an FM station, the coverage is worse, receivers are expensive, and the benefits are minimal. From what I can tell, both IBOC and DRM may suffer mny of the same issues as DAB, although maybe the US market for radio is different enough that it will work out differently.

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    1. Re:Does anyone care either way? by amorsen · · Score: 2, Informative

      DRM+ is a vastly better standard than DAB. DAB should have never existed. If you want to replace traditional FM local stations, DRM+ is an excellent choice -- better coverage and higher quality with less power and using less spectrum. If you want to cover a huge area with a MUX, DVB-T2 is what you want and it can transmit a large amount of channels in one MUX. DRM+ is one channel per MUX, but that isn't a large problem since there is room for many MUXes in just a small amount of spectrum.

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    2. Re:Does anyone care either way? by grahammm · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Another problem with DAB in the UK is that, like with Digital TV, there are too many stations/channels on each MUX. If they did not have so many channels (why do we need so many +1 channels on Freeview Terrestrial Digital TV?) then they could use higher bitrates and therefore better quality. DAB has the capability to offer higher (audio) quality than FM but because they squeeze in so many stations, the quality of most (if not all) is lower than a good FM setup.

    3. Re:Does anyone care either way? by TheRaven64 · · Score: 4, Informative

      The big problem that DAB suffers from is battery life - an FM radio can last far longer than a DAB radio on the same set of batteries. Do you have any figures for power usage for DRM+ decoders compared to FM radio? If it's just driving headphones, a pocket FM radio can go for quite a few days on single AA radio. DAB seems to use about ten times as much power.

      For in-car use, power isn't such a problem, although hand-off between towers is. For in-home use, you're likely to have Internet Radio as an option, with a lot more channels (I'm in the UK, and I'm currently listening to a station in California...).

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    4. Re:Does anyone care either way? by Anaerin · · Score: 3, Informative

      Another issue with DAB in the UK is that we already have RDS on FM, which offers most of the benefits that DAB has for the average listener (Station Identification, frequency hopping, optional traffic/weather report switching, one-way data stream for now playing/next up information etc). The US doesn't have RDS at all (Believe it or not), so a digital radio system would be of more benefit to them.

    5. Re:Does anyone care either way? by theaveng · · Score: 2, Interesting

      DRM+ probably drains batteries faster because it's using MPEG4 (versus MPEG1 MP2 for DAB) which requires more processing power, more watts, et cetera.

      IBOC/HD Radio also uses MPEG4. It gives you near-CD quality at only 40 kb/s

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      FOX NEWS.com should be BANNED from television and internet. Have the Congress take it over and give us Truespeak.
  5. Always something new by Brad1138 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    There is always going to be a new, better technology if you just wait a few minutes, but they have to pick something at sometime. If you wait because there was something better around the corner you would wait forever.

    --
    If you could reason with religious people, there would be no religious people
    1. Re:Always something new by AK+Marc · · Score: 2, Insightful

      My real question is why can't the US follow international standards? We'd cut a good bit of costs if we just worked together with everyone else and adopted international standards. Instead, the US companies push Congress for incompatible standards so that they get some protection, at the expense of inferior products or inflated costs and racist nationalists whine about New World Order and will gladly accept (and push for) incompatible standards because they don't want to do what they are doing in those socialist countries.

  6. Re:Different, not necessarily better. by ProdigyPuNk · · Score: 2, Insightful

    True, but at least with hybrid DRM you aren't stuck paying outrageous royalty fees to a company backed by your big-station competitors.

  7. What's the difference? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I've been with the biggest manufacturer of HD Radio (and TV) transmitters in the US working I've worked closely with iBiquity (holder of patents for IBOC being used in the US) engineers in rolling out the newest HD Radio technologies for many years.

    In my opinion it's a moot issue. I've worked on HD Radio exciters for some years, first with great enthusiasm and now with very little. It's a great idea on paper but when you listen to an actual radio in the real world the difference is VERY underwhelming. AM is a lot bigger improvement but FM is almost a wash. I can't imagine anyone paying for so minimal an improvement. If you're into AM talk radio I can see it but I don't think anyone is going to pay the iBiquity tax (every radio manufacturer has to pay for iBiquity IP to have an HD decoder) to have a radio that "sounds a little better". The ability to send multiple programs over the same signal benefits the radio station owner far more than the listener and it doesn't seem to be taking off. The stations don't seem to know what to do with the extra programming time (that could change though). I've heard the market penetration reports weekly (from iBiquity) for years. At first it was going like gangbusters. Now it's just dying and iBiquity is in BIG trouble. They've been considered for acquisition by both Apple and Google and apparently neither found them worthy. That should tell you something.... My company doesn't even want to continue updating the software for these devices because there simply isn't enough payback to make it worth doing. Radio stations aren't buying because it's not making much difference to their advertisers.

    IBOC or Radio Mondiale? Who cares? I think we'll have both out there eventually with Radio's that contain decoders for either. Particularly when iBiquity folds (couple years maybe...) and their licensing fee's go away. Market penetration for IBOC is pretty damn deep in the US already (I think my company has about 2500 HD exciters in the field) and radio stations are not big spenders. I can't see them switching and if they haven't gone IBOC yet it makes no sense to do anything but IBOC because, however few HD Radio's are out there, there aren't ANY for Radio Mondiale. Being open (free) doesn't make any difference because you still have to BUY a radio with the free decoder.

       

  8. NIH by overshoot · · Score: 2, Funny

    This is America, damnit! We set the standards. None of this foreign stuff for us like GSM, the metric system, or any of that other crap that will never make it in the market.

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    Lacking <sarcasm> tags, /. substitutes moderation as "Troll."
  9. Re:Different, not necessarily better. by pottymouth · · Score: 2, Insightful

    And there's a damn good reason to maintain an analog system of broadcast... inexpensive, plentiful, ubiquitous radio's that can be used for communicating with the population should something terrible happen. Like a Marxist regime in the White House, Oh wait....

  10. IBOC is broadcaster protection by Animats · · Score: 4, Insightful

    IBOC was designed to prevent broadcasters from competition. One of the alternative schemes was to use spread-spectrum across the entire AM broadcast band, on top of existing stations. This would make the "properties" of incumbent stations far less valuable.

    It's worth keeping analog AM as an emergency broadcast medium. The receivers are simple, dumb, and reliable, and the transmitters have huge range. That's useful during floods, hurricanes, and such.

  11. Here's what the "open" system is using... by Qubit · · Score: 2, Informative

    According to TFA, the (more) open system is actually relying on a number of not-so-open protocols and formats.

    * Open source system. Royalties are paid by the transmitter manufactures only (and do date, most major US transmitter manufactures have already paid these). There is no royalties paid by the broadcaster to install DRM or by the consumer when purchasing a DRM capable receiver. One company does not own the rights to the modulation system for all the broadcasters in the country.

    It's good that no royalties have to be paid by broadcasters or consumers, but given that I was just at the Open Hardware Summit and have a curiosity about things like GNU Radio, hopefully the amateurs won't be shaken down if they build their own receivers or transmitters.

    * The CODEC is HE-AAC 4, which is widely used world wide.

    AAC is patented, and they make you pay money.

    In addition to that, DRM30 station have the ability to transmit low frame rate H. 264 video.

    H.264 is patented, and they make you pay money.

    The thing is, even if this isn't a completely open format, it's entirely plausible that this is the closest that anyone has gotten. While we could consider using this for now, we should always look forward and try to figure out how open we want the next set of standards to be.

    --

    coding is life /* the rest is */
  12. DRM is bad, IBOC is worse by wowbagger · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Both Digital Radio Mondale and IBOC (Ibiquity) are bad. Both require a host of patented codecs to run (go over to the DRM project page and look at the requirements to build it - DRM suffers from the classic design by committee issues.

    But IBOC is worse: Ibiquity has, as a part of the required standard, that all transmissions SHALL be encrypted with a key you have to license from Ibiquity. If they don't like what you are doing, NO KEY FOR YOU! For example Griffin was going to offer a IBOC tuner on USB (their Radio Shark HD), that would have allowed you to record the bit stream for time shifting purposes. Ibiquity says "THOU SHALT NOT RECORD THE STREAM" - and Griffin had to cancel the Radio Shark HD (after they had announced it, BTW).

    Read that last again: this isn't a "you MAY encrypt, if you want to" - this is "You SHALL encrypt. Get over it."

    Personally, I'd rather see a truly Free solution out there, but where's the profit in that?

  13. Re:Why does this still exist? by Vegeta99 · · Score: 2, Informative

    No, antenna size is not a function of distance you want to cover. It's a function of wavelength, at 2.4GHz it's 12.5cm, and at 1000kHz, smack in the middle of the US AM band, it's 300m.

  14. Re:I would much rather they use AM Stereo by iammani · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I think you would be interested in my Noise Generator cum Equalizer that can turn any good quality FM/MP3/FLAC audio into AM quality audio.

  15. IBOC is a joke! by Newer+Guy · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I am a broadcast engineer with over 30 years of experience.

    IBOC is a true joke. It's the FIRST broadcast service ever authorized by the FCC that actually CAUSES interference-mostly to your NEIGHBORS above and below you on the dial! IBOC is also an FCC sanctioned PRIVATELY owned system that costs broadcasters over $25K in upfront licensing fees-and then more in continuing royalty payments.

    What most of us want (broadcast engineers) is for the FCC to authorize TV channels 5 and 6 for a dedicated digital radio band using DRM. Low band VHF is the WORST place for Digital Television (it goes in order UHF channels 20-40, UHF channels 14-20, UHF channels 40-51 , VHF channels 7-13 and finally VHF channels 2-6). Right now there are about 25 DTV stations on channels 5 and 6 in the entire country-and it's been proven that EVERY ONE can be accomodated on UHF (To accomodate the station in Philadelphia on channel 6, a station in Reading, PA would have to move to a different UHF channel and give Philly its current channel, OR Philadelphia can move to channel 3 if they insist on staying on low band VHF-a BAD idea!).

    If the FCC got off their ever widening ASS and did this, every AM station that wanted a digital FM could have one-with enough left over for every FM station too-AND a nationwide FM frequency for the National Weather Service/Homeland Security to operate on!