Google, Apple Settle Justice Dept. Hiring Probe

Ponca City, We Love You writes "The LA Times reports that under a proposed settlement with the Justice Department, six major Silicon Valley firms — Google, Apple, Intel, Adobe, Intuit and Pixar — would be barred from pledging not to 'cold call' one another's employees. Federal officials have been scrutinizing such agreements for more than a year, concerned that they restrained competition for skilled workers and kept an artificial cap on wages by avoiding expensive bidding wars. If the court fight had proceeded, it could have helped decide the legality of such accords, not just in the high-tech sector but across all industries. But the fight had risks for each side. To win, the Justice Department would have had to convince a court that workers had suffered significant harm. A loss for the companies would have opened the door to a rush of lawsuits."

Comments

Do no Evil?

[mfh]

Google is probably in the worst position for this to come out because it's yet another example of how bad that company has become.

Does anyone have a good suggestion for an email provider and a search engine now?

It's like Google has become what Yahoo was back in the day.

Re:Do no Evil?

[Anonymous Coward]

I work for Google.

In what way is this bad? I haven't understood exactly what all this hulabaloo has been about? I see people both leaving to and arriving from some of those companies quite often.

So, what's the ruckus about?

Re:Do no Evil?

[borgboy]

That's not a valid argument. It's an implied ad hominem at best. You can do better. Do so, or shut your FUD spreading mouth.

Re:Do no Evil?

[Anonymous Coward]

Federal officials have been scrutinizing such agreements for more than a year, concerned that they restrained competition for skilled workers and kept an artificial cap on wages by avoiding expensive bidding wars. For example, Apple placed Google on its "do not call" list, which instructed employees not to directly cold-call Google's employees. Similarly, Google listed Apple among the companies with which it had special agreements not to solicit, the Justice Department said. These agreements were "actively managed" by senior executives, it added.

Cartel: A group of businesses or nations that collude to limit competition within an industry or market;

This is collusion to artificially reduce demand for Skilled Labor in these sectors therefore suppressing the wages of said Skilled Labor, also, take note it's just cold calling which still means the scenario you put forth can still occur but stopping cold calling is still artificially reducing demand which is made worse when the companies are often competitors in different sectors.

Re:Do no Evil?

[The Hatchet]

It is absolutely evil, and I am typically one to defend google. Lowering peoples wages on purpose, making their lives harder, and concentrating money at the top of the company and the top of society is a load of bullshit and is terrible for society. Headhunting increases the amount companies need to pay their employees to get them to stay, and to make sure rival offers don't steal employees. It is exactly what needs to be happening all the time in every industry to stop this 2/3 jobs and still poor bullshit happening around the country, and the whole 60% of the wealth to 5% of the people. It is why college students like me are going to be debt slaves until we are fucking 40, if we live that long killing ourselves with 80-100 hour weeks until hell freezes over. What a dumb anonymous bitch.

Re:Do no Evil?

[mfh]

That's not a valid argument. It's an implied ad hominem at best. You can do better. Do so, or shut your FUD spreading mouth.

He works at Google and he's saying he is oblivious to the wayward track they have taken. My position is that he's turned his head to it, like many others there, and that is why I said I rested my case. Now obviously that's not enough for everyone. Okay fair enough -- I'll respond.

Google was forged by the fact Yahoo had lost its way. If Yahoo wasn't a profiteering, cantankerous example of a company that had lost its focus around the time Google was gaining momentum, then Google could not have gained momentum.

Google is an example of how a company like Yahoo was begging to be replaced. The irony is that now we find Google in the same position because of many examples of how they are not following their motto of "Do No Evil".

Phoning someone up to see if they want a job, out of the blue -- cold calling your competitors... well that's the kind of thing Mr. Burns would do. It's fucking evil. Now I expect companies like Apple to do it. I expect the other corporations to be that shady. That's their way.

But Google? No.

Now I keep reading examples in the media -- often little stories presented of how Google has lost its way. They add up.

Now you can ignore the examples, but it seems that every day or every other day there are comments about Google harpooning Net Neutrality, presenting examples about how Net Neutrality is bad or a thing of the past, and we hear tales now of how Google is poaching employees directly by phoning competitors... it adds to prove they are NO DIFFERENT now than other companies their size.

Anyone against the Net being free and neutral supports evil. Google has taken this position.

Okay back up a second. Think of how Google started out. Google was like an oasis among other websites when it first launched. That didn't last. They introduced advertising and a model to create adds. They sank a lot of other email providers and then targeted the users with advertisements.

The kinds of people who pay to use adsense/adwords are the kind of get-rich-quick fucks that caused the first internet bubble to burst (well they formed the bubble and it popped because of financial physics...)

But now recently we hear stories about how they send a paralegal to try and prevent some poor schmuck from claiming his $721 adsense revenue. That's not an isolated case.

My position is that Google is evil now.

Re:Do no Evil?

[Runaway1956]

Simple. It's an artificial cap on wages. It limits a prospective employee's bargaining power. In a "free market" this wouldn't happen. If you don't understand what "free market" is all about, you should research the concept. The fact is, we don't have a free market. Like democracy, we give some lip service to it - but we don't have it.

Chris O'Brien summed it up best:

[ThisIsForReal]

How dumb was this ill-conceived and poorly executed conspiracy? Let us count the ways.

1. There is no way that potential savings from these ridiculous schemes could have warranted the risks. Just how much money are we talking about saving by not losing a few important employees? Thousands? Chump change. Dumb.

2. Whatever the costs, we're talking about multinational corporations with billions of dollars in the bank. Really, they couldn't dip into those rainy day funds to counter a few offers? It's not just miserly. It's dumb.

3. We knew Apple was a bully. Turns out, it is an even bigger bully than we realized. According to the complaint: "Apple requested an agreement from Adobe to refrain from cold-calling each other's employees. Faced with the likelihood that refusing would result in retaliation and significant competition for its employees, Adobe agreed." Pissing off a key ally? Dumb.

4. Now, everyone working at one of these companies has got to be thinking the same thing: "Did I get screwed?" That's not exactly the kind of gung-ho, morale-building conversations you want going on. Dumb.

5. Those who do think they got the shaft may sue. And because this is an antitrust finding, the settlement will allow anyone who wins in federal court to "recover three times the damages the person has suffered." Say goodbye to whatever measly amounts the companies saved through these agreements. Dumb.

6. People maintained lists. They kept records. According to the complaint: "Pixar instructed human resources personnel to adhere to the agreement and maintain a paper trail in the event Apple accused Pixar of violating the agreement." Dumb.

7. Under this settlement, the Justice Department gets to check up on the companies just about whenever it pleases. Thought the federal government was interfering too much before? Well, congratulations. It will get worse. Dumb.

8. Did they really not think this would come to light? Dumb. Dumb. Dumb.

Original Source

Re:Chris O'Brien summed it up best:

[russotto]

6. People maintained lists. They kept records. According to the complaint: "Pixar instructed human resources personnel to adhere to the agreement and maintain a paper trail in the event Apple accused Pixar of violating the agreement." Dumb.

8. Did they really not think this would come to light? Dumb. Dumb. Dumb.

These are only dumb if the companies involved thought they were doing something illegal.

Re:Chris O'Brien summed it up best:

[iamhassi]

"5. Those who do think they got the shaft may sue. And because this is an antitrust finding, the settlement will allow anyone who wins in federal court to "recover three times the damages the person has suffered." Say goodbye to whatever measly amounts the companies saved through these agreements. Dumb."

I don't think you read the article. No one got "shafted", they had "special agreements not to solicit" and "instructed employees not to directly cold-call Google's employees." This has nothing to do with employees who applied and were turned away like the previous article suggested, they simply agreed not to stalk and actively harass each other's employees attempting to steal them.

Imagine you were dating a woman... I know, /., it's a stretch, but pretend... actually, let's say you were dating a Elven Princess on WoW, that's closer to probably closer to reality. Your buddy is dating a... um... Elven Sorceress (sure why not). Your buddy starts harassing your princess trying to get her to be with him. You tell your buddy to lay off or you're going to go after his sorceress. You both agree not to harass each other's WoW girlfriends. That's what happened here, they agreed not to harass each other's employees. That's probably a good thing, both for your WoW dates and for you and your buddy. Course now the WoW masters said you're not allowed to do that, so if you want to harass each other's dates or anyone else you're permitted. See how the DOJ just mucked this all up?

Did Google Mislead Congress on Hiring Efforts?

[theodp]

June 6, 2007 Congressional Testimony of Laszlo Bock: "Google's hiring process is rigorous, and we make great efforts to uncover the most talented employees we can find."

September 24, 2010 Justice Department Press Release: "Beginning no later than 2006, Apple and Google executives agreed not to cold call each other's employees...Beginning no later than September 2007, Google and Intel executives agreed not to cold call each other's employees...In June 2007, Google and Intuit executives agreed that Google would not cold call any Intuit employee."

Cold Call

[phantomfive]

I really hate these articles because they make me feel like an incompetent programmer. I have never had a cold call from any of these companies. They really do that?? What am I doing wrong???

Re:Cold Call

[DMiax]

I really hate these articles because they make me feel like an incompetent programmer. I have never had a cold call from any of these companies. They really do that?? What am I doing wrong???

Reading Slashdot too much? Just guessing: I was never called either.