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WikiLeaks Insiders Resign
Americano writes "Wired reports that at least six WikiLeaks insiders, including Daniel Domscheit-Berg, WikiLeaks' spokesman in Germany, have resigned in the past few weeks. Those who have spoken with Wired cite differences and disputes with Julian Assange, and his autocratic leadership style, as the motivation for their departure. From the article: 'Key members of WikiLeaks were angered to learn last month that Assange had secretly provided media outlets with embargoed access to the vast database, under an arrangement similar to the one WikiLeaks made with three newspapers that released documents from the Afghanistan war in July. WikiLeaks is set to release the Iraq trove on Oct. 18, according to ex-staffers — far too early, in the view of some of them, to properly redact the names of US collaborators and informants in Iraq.'"
...Wired, known for its constant barrage against wikileaks.
If there's one thing Freedom Fighters can't stand more than the Romans^W Military Industrial Complex, it's each others' company.
Note: this is +1 Sadly Insightful, not Funny.
If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
I doubt it. At this point it would appear the governments of the world don't need to do anything to deal with wikileaks - they simply need to wait.
Something like this is _very_ delicate. If Assange is getting a bit full of himself, this thing will come apart quickly.
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So I ask what is MS doing supporting wikileaks? An organization that released MS's own disclosure policies for xboxlive and other services.
If MS supports wikileaks how is that not a security violation and a conflict of interest?
Furthermore, Daniel's wife is in a POLITICAL ROLE for microsoft, does anyone question what this could have to do about the the leaks of the EU's OSS initiative which Microsoft et al. probably ran off of the rails?
There are legitimate questions about Daniel's role in Microsoft's EU presence, especially with respect to Wikileaks.
Remember the EU OSS leak was detrimental to FLOSS but not to behemouths like Microsoft who are FLOSS's main competitor.
I'm not saying anyone was involved in anything, it just looks really bad.
As someone with a business background and studying for my MBA (let the jokes begin), I find this type of thing fascinating.
This type of situation happens a lot in small business. Most successful smal businesses face failure when they make the hurdle to medium-sized businesses. They either end up folding,or going back to a smaller company.
To get a company up and running requires a certain personality -- very confident, very controlling. To successfully grow you need a staff around you that shares in the power and is trusted to make decisions. The original personality type fails in this regard. Either the person in charge must change his leadership style or the person in charge must change (i.e. get rid of him).
So from the 50.000 foot view, it seems like we have this situation at wikileaks. This is a shame as I think this type of organization can truly be a benefit to freedom and democracy.
See my journal for slashdot ID's by year. Mine created in 2005. http://slashdot.org/journal/289875/slashdot-ids-by-year
assange did a good thing starting wikileaks, but we are all human, we are all fallible, and it is possible to praise assange for getting the ball rolling but recognize that perhaps the cause has outgrown him
he obviously needs to let go and let other people run the show in a distributed manner, not with a single point of failure: one man
this is not a trumped up rape charge in sweden. this is a valid problem with his management style. if you blindly defense assange, even to the extent that wikileaks the cause can be hurt in terms of image, ethical behavior, or compromised mission because of his management failures, then you are guilty of hero worship and cult of personality behavior. if you laugh at why people care about the star worship on TMZ.com or wonder why scientologists or north koreans can't see that they are being sold a bill of goods... yet you still defend assange: look in the mirror. surely you can separate wikileaks and assange in your mind
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
tags!!!(10+1)
My immediate reaction was "they've been leant on".
That kind of paranoia really isn't healthy. When you start seeing shadowy conspiracies around every corner, it's time to seek help.
This argument would have more weight if it were not for the fact that because of Wikileaks we have been made more aware of conspiracies to cover up illegal activities, and that some of those groups whose actions have been uncovered are actively trying to discredit Wikileaks and limit its ability to function.
The idea behind Wikileaks is a good one, but Assange has an agenda (as the Collateral Murder site clearly showed). I hope these people are heading off to form their own organization, with perhaps something closer to neutrality.
My immediate reaction was "they've been leant on". I'd imagine the US government has been putting pressure directly on any individual involved in the hope of a) weakening Wikileaks and b) causing dissent and reducing their credibility.
NYT:'The civilian also said that the Army had offered him “a considerable amount of money if I were to keep my ear to the ground and be an in with them with WikiLeaks.” He said that he had turned the Army down'
So there is some precedence, there is a plan and a 120 strong department working around the clock to make it happen. Does not sound far fetched to me.
It was only about two months ago that people in government were demanding his head. Reacting to this event may well be unfounded paranoia but that does not change that powerful people do want to get him. Now what should happen is that it should stop at the noise of unprofessional weasels demanding his head, but it may go furthur and somebody may be sent on the pointless useless and deplorable task of stirring up trouble from him to "teach him a lesson". It would be as unprofessional as outing a CIA agent because her husband pointed out a blatant and stupid lie, but that doesn't mean it won't happen.
"..he's as bad as the leaders he's trying to expose.."
/. mods just being oversensitive I guess. Though maybe you pissed off some lefty in another thread that is exacting unjust revenge. But then why they'd go for overrated as opposed to troll I don't know. Could also be the sig, It reads like spam ... seriously, I wouldn't open an e-mail with that title. The all caps are sorta sad too.
Came off a bit trollish maybe?
Rest was interesting though.
I guess what I'm saying is thanks for the link to the interview.
That would make for a great conspiricy theory, but the my guess is that Julian Assange is probably just an ego maniac douche bag, who sucks to work with. Reality is usually far less interesting than fiction, and I can almost guarantee most people working at wikileaks were doing so because of moral reasons, which conflict with Assange's money making goals.
Wow the idea that Assange is narcissistic is so abhorrent to you that you first reaction is that the US government got to them.
This is the worst kind of hero worship. If you keep this up there can only be two results.
1. I life of mindless devotion to Assange.
2. Deep depression when you finally find out the Assange isn't perfect.
I suggest you read the story first. Even if you think Assange is right then it comes down to a simple battle of egos which Assange as a leader didn't handle correctly IMHO. And that is the best case for Assange.
Assange I feel that Assange is a publicity hound and shows no journalistic integrity.
That is my take on things you are of course free to disagree.
See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
No way. Impossible. And no way anyone associated with wikileaks would be against his showmanship and partisanship. They're in for the fame, not the freedom of information.
And because the admins of 4chan might just out you for the lulz
Skipping the wired (and poster "Americanos") spin at looking right at the chat logs they are basing it on (reproduced below
Dude, that's not all they're basing it on. There's been *multiple* resignations in the organization. If this were an isolated incident with a single individual, I might believe you, but it's clear there's far more to it than this.
The US government has too many secrets. Certainly, they need SOME, otherwise they can't have a tactical advantage over enemies. But there's stuff decades old that just should not be closed up in some government filing cabinet. I think the excessive government secrecy, cover-ups for mistakes, and all sorts of other crud need to be blown wide open by those who care more for the American people than for their government (which should be for the people, by the people, of the people, etc.).
The problem currently is that those people doing the blowing-open appear to be kindof shallow on ethics themselves. Assange comes across to me as a serious ass-hat who get's a kick out of doing this stuff more because it's "naughty" than because he really cares about freedom of information. Of course, this impression, along with the sexual misconduct charges, could all be the result of Pentagon brainwashing. But if you're going to take the "moral high ground" against government secrecy, you have to be above reproach, and you have to use tactics much less douchy than the ones we've been seeing, what with the "I'm going to release this stuff in two weeks, so I can get lots of personal attention, up the suspense, etc. Maybe I'll be arrested for not having yet released anything, which will be a high profile embarrassment for the government. Strisand Effect."
Wikileaks seems to be more about media whoring than truly doing good things.
Yeah, he totally weasels out of it completely. Oh, except for the part where he says: "i didnt speak to newsweek or other media representatives about this."
For what it's worth, my "spin," as you call it, is entirely accurate. The people who have left that Wired have spoken to have cited differences and disputes, both personally with Julian Assange, and with his -- apparently autocratic -- leadership style. Go RTFA, and you'll see that it's not really me "spinning" the summary, it's a pretty accurate summary of what the Wired story has to say.
You may disagree with their assessment, and feel that Assange is NOT being autocratic and heavy-handed, but that does not change the fact that Wired has reported this to be the opinion of several of the people who have resigned.
....there is a plan....
Pop quiz; what is the plan? Have you actually read that document? The most direct "plan" in the leaked document is as follows:
In summery, go after whistle-blowers / leaks. That's it. No grand government conspiracy to lean on Wikileaks staff. No grand plan to get Assange personally. Yet every time anything remote touches on Wikileaks or Assange, we get post after post about how it is the latest evidence of powerful enemies pulling strings all in accordance with The Plan.
Seriously folks, where that skepticism that prevents you from swallowing everything fed to you by your government? Does it all go out the window because you're being fed by someone who matches your politics?
It's a site that leaks classified information. I think the chances of their being no conspiracy against it are pretty slim.
Just fork the whole thing. Build a new org and run it from there. 1. The world needs more whistle blower sites. Redundancy is key. 2. The service is too valuable to fail because of any number of persons. just my 2 cents.
That's right, NO.
Assange asked him directly, "did you speak to Newsweek about this."
Domscheit-Berg responded directly, "I didn't speak to Newsweek or other media representatives about this."
I'd hardly call that weasel language, or refusing to answer the question. As far as him leaking this information for "political and financial advantage," what advantage at all is there for Domscheit-Berg in this? Please explain how he's going to reap rewards out of... leaving Wikileaks?
It's funny, apparently when we criticize Assange we need ironclad proof, and even with video we're not sure that it wasn't heavily doctored by the CIA/MSFT/Barack Obama/UN/UK/Germany/Swedish Prosecutors/Glenn Beck/Rush Limbaugh/et. al., but when anybody else is involved, a bit of baseless conspiracy theory and a few twists of innuendo ("I'm not SAYING he leaked it for financial gain, but he's never specifically DENIED it, either!"), and that's good enough to assume the people we disagree with are guilty.
Double standard? I think so.
Let's see... once again, according to the material you've linked:
So his job is to analyze Wikileaks' activities and prepare a case for prosecution if the Government wants to go that direction? And that's the evidence of Government leaning on Wikileaks staff? Investigation.
Furthermore, the article does fall in line with what I've already pointed out. They were given a lead on an accused leak. And presumably have been involved in putting together a case against Manning. Which is exactly what that leaked document outlines; going after the leaks.
Once again - I have to ask if you even READ what you're linking to. You even quote a definition for conspiracy that hardly fits the material you're providing.
Actually, this is probably wikileaks decentralizing. These guys aren't idiots, there's quite a few PhDs and other savants on the team.
It rose from pretty much nothing, just a domain name. It can rise again as governmentleaks.com, etc. That's the internet. The site is too high profile now to be below the radar of politics. Instead they will release via bittorrent.
It's sad that the media still isn't doing their job and instead acting as shills to tarnish wikileaks. They are being used by the spin doctors. The media response is predictable. They could either go "why didn't we do that" or they can go "we would never do that, we're too professional". Which is the problem--this idea that educated journalism just rehashes what everyone else and the government is saying.
But when you look back in history you see the truely groundbreaking stories that really changed things (like tobacco, watergate, etc) were almost snuffed out by national security and governmental interference, put the reporters at risk of jail, and possibly even assassination attempts.
Yet they prevailed because the printing press enables them to copy their report and send to everyone and there's no way people can call it back. Now, obviously this great power requires responsibility, but in a case where the information is really telling about a war that they are asking us to vote for each year--telling in that it shows the government has lied to us to keep us voting for the war--I think that should come out. If soldiers should die because of the information release, remember who sent them over there to begin with. If they were safely at home it wouldn't be a problem now would it? Furthermore, if the information release leads to the war ending sooner, what about all the lives that will be saved?
Thus it's a bullshit ad-homium argument. "What about the troops?!" I can't believe we're so ignorant in this country that we believe we can have a war where no one dies except the enemy. And I have lots of friends in the military in various capacities, and none of them want to die, and most of them don't want to be there but they also know that it's their job. But the majority of them would give their life to end the war right now and bring all the rest home. I guarantee that.
So, wikileaks needs to decide if this is information that will help end the war, and cause political support for it to buckle in the US or not.
Now my little rant against: I, for one, want to know if I've been lied to. They are spending OUR MONEY (and our kids) on the war and they are asking for me to vote on it again. I want my vote to be based on the most true facts possible.
Cool! Amazing Toys.
Which is deliciously ironic... apparently the seekers of transparency, themselves, need not be transparent. Nice.
Meanwhile, Assange's paranoid need to root out this defector is clearly preventing wikileaks from actually doing the job they exist to do, as evidenced by that very transcript.
If you're putting together an army to fight for freedom and liberty, you can't run it like a democracy. There's a reason why decisive leadership is important in times of crisis. Interesting bit of history, many pirate crews operated under a form of limited democracy. They'd elect captains. Once in battle, the man's orders were obeyed as if from God. After the battle, they could decide if they had faith in him.
An operation like Wikileaks has to present a cohesive, united front. They can have all the internal debates they want but they can't appear to be bickering and disunited in public. Having poor message discipline, not clearly declaring goals and working to accomplish them, all of this results in chaos and sabotages the mission.
So this guy may well be a prick but the question is whether he's getting the job done. I've seen wonderful people who can't lead and I've seen people who are such assholes nobody will follow them. I've seen leaders who can be friendly and get things done and I've seen ones who can motivate while being hard-asses. There's no one way to do things and we'll see how this story plays out.
Kwisatz Haderach
Sell the spice to CHOAM
This Mahdi took Shaddam's Throne
In the same way US having spies is ironic. After all, the US HATES their secret and military secrets being taken, but they employ MASSES of people to do just that!
were you reading the same chatlog?
All Assange was saying was basically "who dares speak against ME??" And the other guy was just trying to get some work done. Assange refused to give the guy the answers he needed to get his work done.
He was acting like a douche and the other guy got pissed off and told him he was a douche. And then Assange proves it by unilaterally suspending the guy.
Face it Assange is a douchebag, and he's going to bring down wikileaks.
And that's all a fine argument once we get to the point of the US Government attempting to prosecute. But they're not (at least not yet). And while investigation can lead to prosecution, they're not the same thing.
If the Government does attempt prosecution, then I'd be behind your argument in most cases. But the only one they've started prosecution on is Manning. And the Espionage Act of 1917 clearly applies there.
What fails to come to light in this thread is any evidence of a conspiracy to lean on Wikileaks agents. Yet you've invoked all this as proof. And that proof fails to deliver. Just as it fails to deliver when all the other conspiracy theorists invoke it to explain away criticisms of Wikileaks and anything else that touches Wikileaks or Assange in a negative light.
As an aside, the article described this supposed dedicated group as "nearly 120 intelligence analysts, FBI agents, and others" - not sure where you get "propaganda specialists" out of that although I think you're counting "spooks" twice naming the FBI. The problem I keep having in these threads is that there's supposed to be clear proof, yet every time a little digging is done, we discover that the bias of the individual has produced fictions and presented them as fact.
"The law, in all vicissitudes of government, fluctuations of the passions, or flights of enthusiasm, will preserve a steady undeviating course; it will not bend to the uncertain wishes, imaginations, and wanton tempers of men. To use the words of a great and worthy man, a patriot, and an hero, and enlightned friend of mankind, and a martyr to liberty; I mean ALGERNON SIDNEY,who from his earliest infancy sought a tranquil retirement under the shadow of the tree of liberty, with his tongue, his pen, and his sword, "The law, (says he,) no passion can disturb. Tis void of desire and fear, lust and anger. 'Tis mens sine affectu; written reason; retaining some measure of the divine perfection. It does not enjoin that which pleases a weak, frail man, but without any regard to persons, commands that which is good, and punishes evil in all, whether rich, or poor, high or low,'Tis deaf, inexorable, inflexible. On the one hand it is inexorable to the cries and lamentations of the prisoners; on the other it is deaf, deaf as an adder to the clamours of the populace."
- John Adams
"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge"
- Charles Darwin