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Govt To Bomb Guam With Frozen Mice To Kill Snakes
rhettb writes "In a spectacularly creative effort to rid Guam of the brown tree snake, an invasive species which has ravaged local wildlife and angered local residents, the US Department of Agriculture is planning to 'bomb' the island's rainforests with dead frozen mice laced with acetaminophen. While it might not seem difficult to purge an island of snakes, the snake's habit of dwelling high in the rainforest canopy has so far thwarted efforts to rid the island of the pest. Eradicating the snake is a priority because it triggers more than 100 power outages a year at a cost of $1-4 million and has driven at least 6 local bird species to extinction."
They dropped the gorillas to stomp the lions, the dropped the lions to hunt the dogs, the dropped the dogs to chase the cats, they dropped the cats to catch the mice, the dropped the mice to kill the snakes, but I don't know why they swallowed that fly.
For a saint...
Warning: this article may contain humor, sarcasm, parody, and perhaps even irony. Read at your own risk.
And have a headache, just grab the nearest dead frozen mouse.
I eat only the real part of complex carbohydrates.
Just spread some rumour to the Chinese that the rare "Guam strain" is good for erectile dysfunction, "general health" or whatever, and it'll soon be close enough to extinction. ;).
I guess all those warnings about how Tylenol can damage your liver are true!
But this will only work if the snakes were drinking the night before!
Taking guns away from the 99% gives the 1% 100% of the power.
You're right about the dangers of tylenol, it's bad especially combined with any other drug/chemical that strains your liver.
However, it's the only painkiller known safe for pregnant women. All the rest of 'em? Not so good!
--PM
Lisa: But isn't that a bit short-sighted? What happens when we're overrun by lizards?
Skinner: No problem. We simply release wave after wave of Chinese needle snakes. They'll wipe out the lizards.
Lisa: But aren't the snakes even worse?
Skinner: Yes, but we're prepared for that. We've lined up a fabulous type of gorilla that thrives on snake meat.
Lisa: But then we're stuck with gorillas!
Skinner: No, that's the beautiful part. When wintertime rolls around, the gorillas simply freeze to death.
Now the entire island will smell like rotting mice and snakes... Good Job USDA.
It takes >4 grams/day to overdose. It's far from "ridiculously easy". You can have 8 extra-strength Tylenol in a day and still be okay. /pharmicist
Gone!
I guess all those warnings about how Tylenol can damage your liver are true!
Ha Ha only serious. I can't find many decent references in a quick Google search, because all the links are "lolz teh armey is dropping Tylenol mice", but Acetaminophen is quite toxic to many animals, including house cats. It works as a poison by damaging the liver.
For a healthy human, the liver can metabolize a normal dose of Tylenol just fine... but if you combine alcohol, Tylenol, and a drawerful of other Acetaminophen-containing products (cough syrup with pain reliever, sleep aid with pain reliever, cocaine/speed/etc cut with pain reliever, etc), you've got trouble on your hands.
Also, there's the problem of would-be suicides who try to overdose on Tylenol-3, the prescription high-dose version with Codeine added. They generally don't die -- largely because there's a specific antidote that hospitals have to neutralize the Acetaminophen before it overwhelms the liver. Those who are too late for that intervention don't die either, not right away... they end up on the list for a donor liver, and get to spend their final weeks wishing that they'd either found a better way to get attention, or that they'd invested in a shotgun.
Stressed? Me? Of course not. Stress is what a rubber band feels before it breaks, silly.
Then they can drop smarter dead frozen mice to kill them as well. Er, well, or something like that.
I have had it with these motherfucking snakes on this motherfucking island!
Once the dead snakes are doped on acetaminophen, don't they face the risk of whatever native species might eat them overdosing on acetaminophen
Probably not. The snake will die after its liver wears itself out breaking down the Acetaminophen. All that will be left in the snake is a worn-out liver and non-toxic Acetaminophen metabolites.
Arsenic, by contrast, doesn't "break down". It's an element, so it kills you and remains Arsenic. Other poisons would likely behave similarly. My guess is that Tylenol (I'm tired of typing the long word) was chosen *because* it's less likely to perpetuate in the food chain. In fact, I think it would be just about impossible for it to get beyond two layers -- the liver of whatever eats the snake should take care of the excess with no trouble.
Stressed? Me? Of course not. Stress is what a rubber band feels before it breaks, silly.
Most snakes won't eat carrion. The prey has to be moving to trigger hunting, and then feeding behavior.
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Didn't think so.
if you drink more 3 drinks a day, the overdose threshold can be as high as 6grams
since contrary to the popular belief, alcohol is actually protective in case of acetaminophen poisoning, since the P450 enzyme favour ethanol to acetaminophen so there is less N-acetyl-p-benzoquinone imine(the bad metabolite of Tylenol that fuck up your liver) produced, you can read more int he Merck manual
Jehovah be praised, Oracle was not selected
seems pretty likely to me, a lot of snakes won't eat their prey unless it's moving, this will probably re-enforce that trait.
This is a joke. I am joking. Joke joke joke.
Probably not. The snake will die after its liver wears itself out breaking down the Acetaminophen. All that will be left in the snake is a worn-out liver and non-toxic Acetaminophen metabolites.
Actually, acetaminophen is not toxic, but one of its metabolites, NAPQI (N-acetyl-p-benzo-quinone imine) is the one that does the damage by depleting the body's supply of glutathione which is a necessary chemical for many liver reactions. The rapid depletion of glutathione causes liver cells to become exposed to damage from free radicals and other, regular body toxins that would normally be metabolized. This is why acetaminophen toxicity is characteristic for causing centri-lobular necrosis - cells closest to the branch of the portal vein (And hence exposed to the highest concentrations of Acetaminophen-->NAPQI) tend to die first, cells further away tend to hang on to greater supplies of glutathione and survive to process the remaining NAPQI.
Since I'm a medical doctor and not a vet I am unaware as to the specific toxicity mechanism in cats and snakes, but it probably also has to do with this toxic NAPQI metabolite.
Insofar as your argument I would venture that the dead snakes would be full of NAPQI, an unhealthy surprise for any critter eating them that was unable to metabolize this chemical.
Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
It's not physically addictive at all, and no more habit-forming than anything else that's fun.
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Single dose =/= maximum daily dose. Don't mix and match study types.
Acetaminophen metabolism follows first order kinetics and has a half life of 4-6 hours, depending on how healthy your liver is and how efficient your enzymes are. Taking one single 2.5g dose is probably enough to saturate your enzymes to the point that some damage will be done. However taking 4g divided in 4 doses of 1g every 6 hours will never get you over 2g total blood concentration since your body will be eliminating the drug.
Of course there's an entire other argument about chronic acetaminophen use depleting glutathione/methionine stores over time, but that's an even different story.
And then there's the other argument about chronic alcohol use, people who already have low glutathione stores and induced CYP2E1 cytochromes ready to zap that acetaminphen into NAPQI the minute it enters the liver - but why bore you with pharmacology when you can get your own doctorate?
Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
NYC tried this kind of stupid stunt to attack our rats with imported possums. The possums didn't kill the rats, and now Brooklyn is infested with rats and possums.
I expect Guam will remain overrun by snakes, and get overrun by mice. So they'll send in the possums, and Guam will be overrun by snakes, mice and possums.
Why can't we learn that simple attacks on complex problems often just make the problem more complex? Hamfisted slaps at nature always have unintended consequences.
--
make install -not war
I get that when I turn off the air conditioner. Does that make cold air addictive?
Media that can be recorded and distributed can be recorded and distributed.
-kfg
Thank you.. you made a crazy claim and you realized everyone would call bullshit.. so you included a source... thank you for the source. I wish more people here would include a source.
The withdrawal from marijuana is nothing at all compared to the withdrawal from coffee, or even television. What you incorrectly believe was actually entirely made up by racists in the 1920s, and perpetuated by McCarthyists. To say cannabis incurs no withdrawal whatsoever would be more correct than exaggerating the extremely minor, usually unnoticed, symptoms.
Even Federal Judges at the DEA, reviewing the testimony of experts, have deemed that it is relativey harmless, and ruled it should be legal.
The Admin and the Engineer
Trust me, I've seen it. You're thinking of attention like "famous person" attention, or something you'd see in a movie. Mundane, everyday clinical depression doesn't work that way -- the need for attention is a subconscious thing, not a purposeful attempt.
Someone who's depressed doesn't say "Oh, I need attention, I'll do something stupid today". It's more like the childhood verse: "Nobody loves me, everybody hates me, I'm going to eat a worm."
That's why OD'ing on Tylenol is a case of "Suicide in haste, repent at leisure". If it's too late for the antidote, you get plenty of time to realize what a dumb thing you did as you wait for a transplant (in a hospital under psych watch).
Stressed? Me? Of course not. Stress is what a rubber band feels before it breaks, silly.
Well, I take it back. There's definitely evidence that truly chronic users (like, regular, daily users) experience some amount of withdrawl after cessation. 'course, when you start to think about it, that makes sense, as you're no longer taking a sleep aid or an appetite stimulant, and so your body reacts accordingly, with insomnia and appetite loss.
Who is most people? I've been off and on a heavy pot user for 15 years now, and have never experienced any withdrawal effects at all. My usual m.o. is to get a big bag, smoke it over a period of a month or so, and when it's gone, *shrug*, I'm bored with it by then and I'll probably get another in a few months. Literally every one of my friends who smokes is the same way, in fact the usual impetus for getting more is someone going, "hey, when's the last time we smoked some weed?"
And no, I'm not failing to notice the symptoms. I've had physical dependencies on nicotine, caffeine, cocaine, and vicodin, and I know all too well what a physical dependency feels like. Vicodin? Got a too-long prescription from my doctor, and that was the most physically painful withdrawal I've ever had. Don't recommend it. Coke? Much like cigarettes in that there's little physical pain but a lot of brain twisting that makes you convince yourself to go get more. Caffeine? Easy to slowly ramp down, but if you don't holy shit that's a headache. Nicotine? Still trying to quit that. Such a subtle little rat in your head that whispers to go get more until you think it's your own thought, and if you reject it, it'll scratch and claw in death throes at the inside of your skull as you get hit with a craving where you feel the rest of your life go by without a fix. Now that's an addiction.
But pot? No, I can empirically say that pot is not addictive. If you have an issue quitting pot you have other psychological problems that would have manifested in other ways and if nothing else was available the kind of person who gets "addicted" to pot would get just as addicted to hitting themselves in the head with a rock.
<xml><I><am><so><damn>Web 2.0</damn></so></am></I></xml>
"First they came for the snakes,
but I didn't eat because I don't eat Tylenol-laced frozen mice...."
Oh wait, thought this was Y.R.O. ... nevermind.
Give a man a fish and you have fed him for today. Teach a man to fish, and he'll say "WHERE'S MY FISH, YOU IDIOT?"
Such a subtle little rat in your head that whispers to go get more until you think it's your own thought, and if you reject it, it'll scratch and claw in death throes at the inside of your skull as you get hit with a craving where you feel the rest of your life go by without a fix.
Try attaching the craving thought (or feeling or whatever) to a negative thought through a chain, like first imagine what will happen if you do smoke another one: the good feeling, the clear mind, the relaxed impulse. Then imagine finishing the cig, and the chemical effects are starting to wear off, and there is a slight stinky smell remaining, but you still feel ok. Then think of people you know who may have died from cigarettes, then think of ugly pictures you've seen of cancer victims without their throat or whatever. Try to end with some image or situation that has a negative emotional feeling for you, the stronger the better.
Try to imagine each step vividly, the good to bad. At first it might not work really well, because you have to force yourself to connect the steps along the way, but pretty soon the connections from one imagination to the next will grow stronger, until it happens automatically. If it's a really strong urge (rare) this will only weaken it, so after you've completed the process, you can do it again with a different negative ending.
(I may have gotten the details wrong about how nicotine feels when it's good, but that's how I've dealt with other addictions).
Qxe4
People are jumping down your throat, but there's an element of truth to what you said. THC withdrawal exists, but it's mild, pretty difficult to induce, and would not be relevant to OTC use. You really have to try hard to consume enough THC to cause habituation. I only ever experienced withdrawal symptoms after smoking pot constantly for weeks on end. Even then it was nothing more than a little irritability and difficulty sleeping for a couple days. These days I still smoke a lot of pot, but only during the evenings and weekends. When I run out it doesn't bother me at all.
It's worth pointing out that there are several OTC drugs that cause withdrawal symptoms that are more severe than those from THC. Ever have a cold and take Afrin for a week? When you quit, there's a rebound effect (aka withdrawal symptoms). That rebound effect is far more unpleasant than THC withdrawal. The same goes for Benadryl. Then, of course, there's caffeine. Going THC free is no big deal for me (in fact I'm about 5 days out right now), going caffeine free scares the shit out of me.
So you see, THC withdrawal exists but it's no big deal. It's well within the range of acceptable risks for OTC products.
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It worked really well in Brooklyn.
Building Better Software
There is a journal article which discusses the acetaminophen toxicity in snakes and lizards. Apparently there are two theories - glutathione depletion leading to hepatic necrosis as you mentioned, or methemoglobinemia, which is apparently a condition where normal oxygen-carrying hemoglobin is replaced by methemoglobin, which does not carry oxygen and effectively causes death due to cellular oxgyen deprivation (I wonder if this would explain the findings of clear fluid in the lungs/trachea of the snakes/lizards they tested this on?). I'm not a doctor or a chemist, by the way, just found it interesting.
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Whoa dude, you read that link completely wrong, if that's our source.
Habituation to alcohol most likely creates a increased risk of APAP poisoning.
Acute alcohol ingestion reduces APAP toxicity.
Alcohol habituation "primes the pump" so to speak, for conversion of APAP to toxic metabolites by P450 enzymes. But if you give large amounts of alcohol to someone who has excessive amounts of APAP in their bloodstream, that is what is protective, since the alcohol is preferentially taken up by the P450 enzymes.
The lessons to be learned if you don't want APAP poisoning: (1) don't be a heavy drinker and take APAP and (2) if you do ingest a lot of APAP somehow, drink a lot of booze right away to keep it from poisoning your liver.
This is not medical advice, contact a poison control center if you suspect you have any kind of poisoning.
"Trolls they were, but filled with the evil will of their master: a fell race..." -- J.R.R. Tolkien on Olog-hai