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US, NY Bust 92 Mules In 'ZeuS Trojan' Crime Ring

Posted by kdawson on from the beasts-of-burden dept.

Following on the 19 ZeuS botnet arrests in the UK, adeelarshad82 and other readers sent word that US and New York officials have unsealed more than 90 indictments of money mules and others accused of helping siphon more than $3M from 5 banks and dozens of individuals, and sending it overseas. The Manhattan US Attorney announced charges against 37 individuals and New York charged 55. Most of those indicted are foreign students who came to the US on exchange visitor visas. Most are from Russia, the Ukraine, Kazakhstan, or Belarus. Here is the FBI's lengthy press release. A security blogger has put up Facebook party photos of some of the indicted individuals who are still at large.

97 comments

  1. Shit where do I sign up by Rivalz · · Score: 4, Insightful

    3 million / 90 = 33k per mule.... wait thats not enough for me to fly across 10 time zones to get arrested a year later.
    Seriously crime should pay better even in a recession.

    1. Re:Shit where do I sign up by Cylix · · Score: 1

      The mules don't get to keep the full sum.

      i would wager they were keeping a very low percentage of the actual take. The big stake keepers were those directing things from abroad and arranging for the transfers. Honestly, a fair system they would have the lower take due to less risk, but criminals are not necessarily the brightest bunch. Then again if they can get back home what is the chance they will actually face any charges? Without any current connections this might be a bit difficult, but hopefully the kiddies kept a hold of some of their christmas presents.

      Hopefully, the chicks need someone to harbor them too. There were some cute criminals in the bunch.

      --
      "You should always go to other people's funerals; otherwise, they won't come to yours." -- Yogi Berra
    2. Re:Shit where do I sign up by Fluffeh · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Even assuming most of these folks won't get anywhere near the full value of their withdrawl, for most of them it was likely the only way that they could get enough money to get overseas, possibly actually get some study done and maybe after their work was done, have a chance to start life in their shitty little eastern european countries.

      I have a good few friends in eastern europe. Trust me when I say that life is crap and opportunities are few and far between. While I certainly don't support or encourage crime like this, I can empathize with them.

      --
      Moved to http://soylentnews.org/. You are invited to join us too!
    3. Re:Shit where do I sign up by mirix · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Life is crap is rather relative. Sure it's not Sweden, but it isn't Burma either.

      Most east europeans I know have a fairly decent standard of living. There's room for improvement for sure, but it's not *that* bleak.

      Then again, I have an uncle who is a mech eng, and makes something like I'd make at mcdonalds here... but everything domestic there is considerably cheaper, so they aren't starving. The only real problem is getting western goods, or commodities with global prices (fuel is still expensive..) - This works in most parts of east europe I think. Moscow is a batshit insane corner case though, with ridiculous prices...

      Somehow they seem to be happier than the average american/canadian IME, though. More of a work enough to survive thing, as opposed to the 60h a week live to work thing we have happening here.

      And there's always a selection bias too, I guess. My Russian friends that want to come to the west badly seem to badmouth the motherland a lot more than friends that have no intention of leaving. I think part of it is a grass is greener thing.

      --
      Sent from my PDP-11
    4. Re:Shit where do I sign up by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My grandmother lives in Vladivostok. She is a retired pharmacist. She says that the prices there for many goods are comparable to the prices in the States, and in some cases even higher. I know a person from the States who exports automobiles to Russia. They retail for more there than they do here. I won't list all the people I know from there, but they all confirm that most goods have an equivalent price (in dollars) there, and others are even more expensive.

      It always seems bizarre to me that they can afford to live on what they make (little, compared to incomes in the States), but then you realize that they are not paying rent on property because they own it.

    5. Re:Shit where do I sign up by mirix · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Yeah, I suppose that could be true. I'm not amazingly familiar with russian prices (never been there.. yet!) but I've found cost of food and similar staples to be much cheaper in Serbia than in my home (canada), and presume a fair bit of that carries over.

      You're right, cars are definitely more expensive. I'm not sure if they still have tariffs on imported vehicles (which are based off an external prices, still..)
      Of course.. domestic vehicles are rather cheap, if you want one ;)
      Last time in serbia, a yugo was $6k or so tax paid, and around $9k for a lada niva.

      But I think the bare necessities (food, shelter) and definitely sin things (liquor, cigs) are /far/ cheaper. I can get a carton of cigs in serbia for less than a pack costs in Canada ;-)
      Luxuries, especially western made ones, are definitely not affordable though. But.. caviar is cheaper.. go figure.

      One thing I really like about east europe that all but disappeared in the west is.. one man operation stores.. and... repairing things! Imagine that.. fixing electronics, shoes, whatever... which becomes economical with lower wages, I suppose.

      --
      Sent from my PDP-11
    6. Re:Shit where do I sign up by Jurily · · Score: 1

      My grandmother lives in Vladivostok.

      Hint: if it's closer to Japan than Germany, it's not Europe.

    7. Re:Shit where do I sign up by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Where did you see pictures of them?

    8. Re:Shit where do I sign up by clang_jangle · · Score: 1

      No no, you're doing it wrong -- most people who would be mules don't do math that way -- they do it more like this:

      (Amount of time the trip takes me) / (toal amount of pay) = $x/hr.

      Seriously, criminals are not generally known for their stellar reasoning abilities.

      --
      Caveat Utilitor
    9. Re:Shit where do I sign up by c6gunner · · Score: 1

      Last time in serbia, a yugo was $6k or so tax paid, and around $9k for a lada niva.

      True, but look at what you're getting for the money. You can buy a KIA for around $10k in Canada that's far superior to the Lada. And as for the Yugo ... those things should come with a free coffin and funeral service. I'd feel safer and more comfortable on a JATO powered segway.

      But I think the bare necessities (food, shelter) and definitely sin things (liquor, cigs) are /far/ cheaper. I can get a carton of cigs in serbia for less than a pack costs in Canada ;-)

      That's mainly because Canada taxes the shit out of all "sin" items. You can still buy a pack of smokes for $1.50 in some parts of the US - in Canada you'd be hard pressed to get them for under $7, unless you buy 'em from the natives. And the natives will sell 'em to you for as low as $10 per carton (ok, carton as in "plastic bag filled with 200 cigarettes"), so the actual cost involved in manufacture isn't very high.

      One thing I really like about east europe that all but disappeared in the west is.. one man operation stores.. and... repairing things! Imagine that.. fixing electronics, shoes, whatever... which becomes economical with lower wages, I suppose.

      I'm not sure what there is to like about that - it's just basic economics. Sewing patches on your socks might seem like a good idea to you, but I doubt you'd get much agreement from the people who are forced to do it because their economy sucks so much.

    10. Re:Shit where do I sign up by Abdul+Jakul · · Score: 1

      well they could have at least robbed them all literally like going through the roof or something. Roof Shingles repair is cheap anyway

    11. Re:Shit where do I sign up by Sulphur · · Score: 1

      Overheard in a restaurant:

      "We're Crime, and Crime doesn't pay."

    12. Re:Shit where do I sign up by gtall · · Score: 1

      And who was enforcing a low take? Upper level criminals use the threat of violence to keep the lower level criminals from stealing from the "wrong persons". This wasn't a mere skimming operation.

    13. Re:Shit where do I sign up by captain29 · · Score: 1

      I don't know, if 'money mule' work is anything like 'coke mule' work, 33k is still a lot to swallow. Not to mention a whole bunch of quarters to fish out of the toilet later. Oh, well I guess you could roll up 330 hundred dollar bills, but still, doesn't sound comfortable at all, geez.

    14. Re:Shit where do I sign up by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      I have a good few friends in eastern europe. Trust me when I say that life is crap and opportunities are few and far between.

      Yes, because "eastern europe" is just one big entirely homogeneous country.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    15. Re:Shit where do I sign up by GameboyRMH · · Score: 1

      And as for the Yugo ... those things should come with a free coffin and funeral service. I'd feel safer and more comfortable on a JATO powered segway.

      Haha this is funny, don't you know your "feeling of safety and comfort" is a luxury item? First-world people say the darndest things!

      The rest of the world drives Yugos, 50+ year old American cars and cheap Chinese motorcycles around all day just fine. I promise, the lack of a feeling of safety and comfort doesn't impair the vehicle's function in any way.

      --
      "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
    16. Re:Shit where do I sign up by c6gunner · · Score: 1

      I promise, the lack of a feeling of safety and comfort doesn't impair the vehicle's function in any way.

      No, but the poor safety standards have a high potential to impair your function, radically. As for comfort ... hey, you can sleep on a concrete slab and wipe your ass with acorns, if you want, or if that's the best you can afford; the rest of us choose not to.

    17. Re:Shit where do I sign up by GameboyRMH · · Score: 1

      No, but the poor safety standards have a high potential to impair your function, radically.

      Just avoid getting in a wreck. Life has risks, and you can't put crumple zones on all of them. I take it you wouldn't ride a motorcycle or quad?

      hey, you can sleep on a concrete slab and wipe your ass with acorns, if you want, or if that's the best you can afford

      That's not a very good analogy for going from a Ford Focus to a Yugo. More like going from sleeping in a fancy bed with ornamental pillows to a hammock, or going from Charmin to ultra-cheap TP. Not as nice but still works fine. I've driven many old POS cars and they've cured my desire for shiny new cars, because they aren't really much better for getting you from A to B. They're definitely not as easy to fix.

      --
      "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
    18. Re:Shit where do I sign up by c6gunner · · Score: 1

      Just avoid getting in a wreck

      Right! Don't wear a condom, just pull out!

      I hope you live long enough to figure out your error.

    19. Re:Shit where do I sign up by GameboyRMH · · Score: 1

      I'm really not worried, I have family who have driven VW bugs and '70s Corollas all their lives. Driving a car without a full airbag array, or even riding a motorcycle, isn't like fucking without a condom.

      --
      "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
  2. Money Mule Groups by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    After posting my email address publicly on careerbuilder.com, I started getting lots of emails advertising money mule positions. Here's one of their websites, in case you wanted to know what these groups are like.

    1. Re:Money Mule Groups by plover · · Score: 1

      To me it looks pretty much like a lot of legitimate web sites. Vague sales pitches, trying to hook customers to buyers, but nothing was screaming "shady" out loud at me, anyway. And their English is good. How did you discover they are money mules? Did you contact them and that's when you learned what the deal was?

      --
      John
    2. Re:Money Mule Groups by vlueboy · · Score: 2, Insightful

      After posting my email address publicly on careerbuilder.com, I started getting lots of emails advertising money mule positions.

      I hear you. It is a annoying that so many +75k job offers [fake salary even if the job were real] completely unrelated to my career follow two principles:

      * Taking advantage of our assumption [we are all naive at some point] that all "employers" and "jobs" there are authenticated, which is the whole reason we all fork over a phone, email address and tons of details that facebook would LOVE to data mine

      * They're making enough scam-cash to profit despite $400-$600/month fees that job boards charge employers for the most basic rights to access our resumes.

      The number of work-from-home emails plummeted when I
      1) started aggressively filtering domains, subject lines and even blocking TO: lines lacking my email address (how does that even work?!)
      2) most importantly, realized that an e-mail address allows spammers and lazy/obnoxious headhunters to add me to lists [the latter ignoring my OBJECTIVE line]

      US headhunters cold-emails for BCC'ing dozens of candidates about bullet points completely absent from my resume. When I withhold that email, their reduced anonymity of being on a phone call has meant that they mention company name, callback number, and almost ALWAYS actually read my resume before making stupid mistakes that the other "toss-garbage-at-the-wall-and-see-what-sticks" headhunters make constantly. Even on a call, it's obvious that they too say "must have 3 years of active directory experience" or a CCNA, which is not something you just forget to put on your resume --they then realize they called the wrong person and wasted both of our time.

      Once on the phone though, legit reps request your email, so you can't go wrong with having screened the callers so you can verify by caller ID / domain names and rep names that you're dealing with a legit entity. Also, to this day no mule jobs have been offered to me over the phone... it's too easy to track phone calls and bust their business model that way.

    3. Re:Money Mule Groups by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Also, to this day no mule jobs have been offered to me over the phone...

      Having said that, there's a gray area: Primerica offers financial sector salesmen positions that are legit, but it's a pyramid scheme that called to recruit me based on the job fair booth I thought just wanted my IT background for IT positions

    4. Re:Money Mule Groups by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They also sent me a few emails. In them, they revealed that the entirety my job would be to receive money into my bank account, withdraw it, and send it over Western Union or Moneygram.

    5. Re:Money Mule Groups by plover · · Score: 1

      IANAL, but I'd guess that's a pretty good indication that they're trying to lure in money mules.

      --
      John
    6. Re:Money Mule Groups by vlueboy · · Score: 1

      Interesting. I had concluded the site was fake for my reply to the GP --I had only noticed that their "about us" page and their root index page recycle the content almost fully. Also, it was odd to see no stock photos of blisful temps that legit sites have.

      I looked around and found these reasons for legitimacy:

      * I missed the list of postings
      * Area code 585 and an 800 number. Normally phones aren't available at all, specially a real company name.
      * Listed names that google confirms have linked in and other pages tied to the company name they list. All other sites hide the names or give you a few that are fake (no web links at all to that first/lastname combination, or even the company's name)
      * Fake sites are meant to have just one landing page and maybe another for filling the trap application form. Here, they even have a login form with the usual red asterisks, and even a "forgot your pw?" link --mouseover shows they do not go to a single, catchall url like fake sites.
      * Ditto for their "latest projects" section. Fake sites have no need to even make up assignments --they still somehow get people to give up their info.

    7. Re:Money Mule Groups by plover · · Score: 1

      I even clicked on one of their projects, and it seemed ordinary enough.

      I'm wondering now if perhaps they completely lifted the content from another site. That'd be one way to not worry about the language differences, and to provide a realistic front.

      If I cared more, I'd google around looking for duplicates.

      --
      John
  3. Bad for exchange students by biryokumaru · · Score: 5, Insightful

    People like this are going to make it increasingly difficult for legitimate students to come over here.

    --
    When you're afraid to download music illegally in your own home, then the terrorists have won!
    1. Re:Bad for exchange students by countertrolling · · Score: 1, Funny

      There are no "legitimate" students. They're all terrorists.

      Curiosity will get you flagged

      --
      For justice, we must go to Don Corleone
    2. Re:Bad for exchange students by maxume · · Score: 1

      Only if people are ridiculous reactionaries over it, it is a few dozen people out of thousands, and the amounts of money are large, but not particularly significant (in comparison to say, the holdings of a typical NYC bank).

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
    3. Re:Bad for exchange students by biryokumaru · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Americans acting like "ridiculous reactionaries!?" Never!

      --
      When you're afraid to download music illegally in your own home, then the terrorists have won!
    4. Re:Bad for exchange students by arth1 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Why would bright and honest students want to study here? The education level and challenges tend to be higher in good overseas universities.
      I can see that for some, it may be attractive to pay a small fortune to go to a US university and sail through to an easy degree, but then again, a US degree isn't worth much anymore, at least not outside the US.

      If I were to hire you, you'd do much better to include a reference to something you'd published than your degree, unless you went to a university you cannot buy admission to.

    5. Re:Bad for exchange students by interkin3tic · · Score: 2, Insightful

      1. That's all nationalities, ass
      2. It's not all citizens, it's politicians who like to look tough on crimes but want to avoid the liabilities that come with cracking down on some of the really big white collar criminals.

    6. Re:Bad for exchange students by Charliemopps · · Score: 1

      Wait... bad people make things hard for good people? Holy shit!

    7. Re:Bad for exchange students by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      1. That's all nationalities, ass

      I seem to recall this rather ridiculous reactionary period in American history where a lot of people started ordering "freedom fries" and had a disdain for all things French. Perhaps you remember too... it was back when France refused to send troops to Iraq to look for those still-not-found WMDs.

      Perhaps the Americans really could have used the French in Iraq. Maybe those WMDs would have been found by now. Oh, and don't forget Poland!

    8. Re:Bad for exchange students by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      People like this are going to make it increasingly difficult for legitimate students to come over here.

      And that's bad why? Seriously, that just means more Americans who now have opportunities to get a college education. Less demand might mean lower prices too, and the cost of college has gotten fuckin' ridiculous lately.

    9. Re:Bad for exchange students by Dodgy+G33za · · Score: 1

      "Oh, and don't forget Poland!" The Germans won't now that they are unified again :o)

    10. Re:Bad for exchange students by Dodgy+G33za · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Dunno what it is like in the US, but in Australia we have a large overseas student population since they tend to get residency when they complete their courses. Used to apply for just about any course run by any shonky provider but they have tightened it recently. Not that I am saying it is a bad policy - getting bright people migrating once they have reached working age is actually a pretty smart way to run migration.

    11. Re:Bad for exchange students by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why would bright and honest students want to study here? The education level and challenges tend to be higher in good overseas universities.

      US Colleges make up half the top-10 of best in the world (UK makes up the other 5). They make up 13 of the top-20, and 40 of the top-50.

      Asia, Africa, South American, and Australia, combined, have three.

    12. Re:Bad for exchange students by DNS-and-BIND · · Score: 1

      1. The "freedom fries" were only in the cafeteria of a government building.
      2. The French foreign policy since WWII has been basically, "see what the Americans do, then take the opposite side." Look up Gaullism sometime.
      3. Anti-French attitudes are historically valid. They're a bunch of self-interested assholes, and I'm someone who generally likes the French.

      --
      Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
    13. Re:Bad for exchange students by DNS-and-BIND · · Score: 1

      You, sir, are an ignorant moron. US universities are the best in the world, bar none. The fact that you have this negative attitude towards all things American doesn't change that fact. I live overseas, and the lines are long to get into a US university, any university. There are advertisements on buses guaranteeing a place in an American university, if you'll just buy their product. I'd like to hear a list of foreign universities that are better than their US counterparts. Ready? Go!

      --
      Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
    14. Re:Bad for exchange students by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I seem to recall this rather ridiculous reactionary period in American history where a lot of people started ordering "freedom fries"

      Wait, time out. I'm not going to say citation needed, but just ask you a question: approximately what order of magnitude is this "lot of people?" Was it 100? 1000? If you said 1000 then I think you're probably exaggerating. A lot of Americans (probably on the order of a million or ten million) do sometimes say "freedom fries" but they do it as a joke, poking fun at the freedom fries media stunt.

      If French people aren't doing the same thing when some other government makes a decision they don't like, then that just means that French People Suck.

  4. Keyser Söze was not among the suspects by turtleshadow · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    Keyser Söze was not among the suspects --- move along just a hedge move along ---

  5. Uh-hum, that's Eastern Europe by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Russia, the Ukraine, Kazakhstan, or Belarus is correctly Eastern Europe, though I doubt anyone from the real Europe would be associated with these places. It's sort of like day//night, east/west, gold/shit, you know.

    1. Re:Uh-hum, that's Eastern Europe by h4rr4r · · Score: 1

      Kazakhstan is in central Asia. Also everyone knows Eastern Europe starts where the wall used to be.

  6. WTF is wrong with certain countries ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    419 scams/Advance Fee Fraud - Nigeria/West Africa
    Bots, Trojans, Crimeware, E-Crime - Eastern Europeans
    Financial Fraud, Pyramid Schemes, GRQ/WFH Scams, email spam - United States
    Email Spam, counterfeit products - China

    i know stereotypes are supposed to be bad but there is definitely a pattern appearing
    is it the culture ? education ? DNA ?

    why do certain countries citizens seem to be attracted towards certain types of crime ?
    the amount of effort they put in its such a shame they couldnt create the next Ebay or Amazon, the web is supposed to be a level playing field and yet with all that effort they still choose crime

    1. Re:WTF is wrong with certain countries ? by symes · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Communities of expertise - once a few people get going, networks develop, success motivates others, and so on. Just like banking tends to be highly localised in a few places.

    2. Re:WTF is wrong with certain countries ? by E+IS+mC(Square) · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Well, it's similar to how certain countries have better presence for certain businesses than others.

      i.e. Outsourcing / back office / call centers - India
      Electronics - Japan, South Korea
      Cars - Germany, Japan
      etc

      Once an ecosystem is in place for a given LoB, more people will join it. Weather it's legal or illegal depends entirely on how strict the laws are and what opportunities exist as alternative.

    3. Re:WTF is wrong with certain countries ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just like banking tends to be highly localised in a few places.

      Ok but what do Jews have to do with this?

    4. Re:WTF is wrong with certain countries ? by GameboyRMH · · Score: 1

      Pyramid Schemes, GRQ/WFH Scams

      And the vast majority of these are running out of Utah. Utah is like the Nigeria of the US, the regulation must be especially lax there.

      --
      "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
  7. Indicted? by mr100percent · · Score: 1

    They're all indicted? How do you indict someone still "at large"? Doesn't that just mean there's an arrest warrant out for them?

    1. Re:Indicted? by hedwards · · Score: 1

      Indictment means that they went before a grand jury rather than the prosecutor filing papers directly with the court. I'm not sure that in practice that there's really that much difference as a good attorney can indict pretty much anybody. If they fail to get their indictment you can be pretty sure that the person is completely innocent.

  8. Serious Crimes + a Matrix inspired FBI logo by Required+Snark · · Score: 3, Informative
    These crimes have serious penalties:

    30 years in prison; fine of $1,000,000 or twice the gross gain or loss; and restitution

    20 years in prison; fine of $500,000 or twice the amount laundered; and restitution

    15 years in prison; fine of $250,000 or twice the gross gain or loss; and restitution

    10 years in prison; fine of $250,000 or twice the gross gain or loss; and restitution

    The charges are bank fraud, wire fraud, false use of passports and false use of identification.

    Plus, check out the FBI Cyber branch logo, obviously inspired by "The Matrix": http://newyork.fbi.gov/dojpressrel/pressrel10/images/nyfo093010_5.jpg

    --
    Why is Snark Required?
    1. Re:Serious Crimes + a Matrix inspired FBI logo by furgle · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Well the Internet IS serious business.

    2. Re:Serious Crimes + a Matrix inspired FBI logo by insufflate10mg · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Though the falling 0's and 1's were first popularized in The Matrix, hackers have been using the falling 0's and 1's for years and years before that.

    3. Re:Serious Crimes + a Matrix inspired FBI logo by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You must not be familiar with the federal sentencing guidelines.
      Only an unlucky few really get the larger sentences.

    4. Re:Serious Crimes + a Matrix inspired FBI logo by awinnenb · · Score: 1

      Side note: God, that logo is creepy. I'm sure it's *intended* to be liberty trumping the matrix, but it really looks like "the United States is the Matrix."

    5. Re:Serious Crimes + a Matrix inspired FBI logo by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      God, when was that logo made? Circa 1995? Look at the black-on-brushed-metal-battleship-gray lettering with the needless shadows around it. And the statue of liberty with a ridiculous drop shadow to conceal the jagged lines in the poor photoshop job.

    6. Re:Serious Crimes + a Matrix inspired FBI logo by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you take all the 1's and 0's falling from left to right and take them together; for example; 00101101110 and do this 001011011100010110111000101101110 and go to next one it will spell Female body inspector in binary. Really cool yet sexist as hell.

  9. I fucked one of those girls by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Last year I met the girl in the lower right in this photo in a bar in Manhattan and spent the night in her hotel room in 51st street. She gave me a card with the name Beatrix Luebeck and told me she was a Slovakian student.

    Next morning she told me she worked as a masseuse and tried to charge me $200 for the night. I told her, sorry, I didn't have any cash and left.

    1. Re:I fucked one of those girls by GameboyRMH · · Score: 1

      Meh she looks like a chubby and has the face of John Travolta. Girl in the center left looks kinda cute.

      --
      "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
  10. Crime doens't pay well by Sycraft-fu · · Score: 5, Informative

    Despite the popular opinion, when you actually research it you find crime doesn't pay much better than honest work. If you are doing simple scut work, you get paid low wages, legal or illegal. Sure there are crime lords that make a lot, the heads of the drug cartels are filthy rich... But then that would be just like the people who created legal business empires. Bill Gates, Warren Buffet, Jeff Bezos, etc all amazingly rich, richer than the drug lords, and did the same basic thing: Created a successful empire selling what people want.

    All in all, crime doesn't pay all that well, especially compared to the risks. It only pays well if you are higher up, just like in the legit world. You may hear about some mid level drug dealer that makes $200k and say "Wow, crime paid well," until you realize a mid level executive can make the same.

    Capitalism doesn't seem to suspend the rules for illegal enterprise.

    1. Re:Crime doens't pay well by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not really surprising. Most criminals didn't turn to crime because they wanted money, they did because they're psychopaths. Their sole goal in life is to make others suffer. In more rational times, these beasts were put down.

    2. Re:Crime doens't pay well by jez9999 · · Score: 1

      Bill Gates, Warren Buffet, Jeff Bezos, etc all amazingly rich, richer than the drug lords, and did the same basic thing: Created a successful empire selling what people want.

      Didn't Warren Buffet admit that he made a ton of money by basically being good at playing the numbers gambling game otherwise known as the stock market?

      --
      == Jez ==
      Do you miss Firefox? Try Pale Moon.
    3. Re:Crime doens't pay well by martin-boundary · · Score: 1

      You may hear about some mid level drug dealer that makes $200k and say "Wow, crime paid well," until you realize a mid level executive can make the same.

      Ah, but how easy is it for the mailroom boy to rise to a $200k executive job, eh? Criminals don't have that problem, they can just shoot all their rivals and start making that $200k, while the mailroom boy is still waiting to become mailroom head clerk once that guy retires.

    4. Re:Crime doens't pay well by CheerfulMacFanboy · · Score: 1

      Bill Gates, Warren Buffet, Jeff Bezos, etc all amazingly rich, richer than the drug lords, and did the same basic thing: Created a successful empire selling what people want.

      Didn't Warren Buffet admit that he made a ton of money by basically being good at playing the numbers gambling game otherwise known as the stock market?

      It's not like any of the others would actually be as rich if it weren't for the stock market either. They all started a company which got them free stock from the start, they get stock options each year - and they ultimately got the power to influence the stock price of their company.

      And most of their wealth is actually in the company stock they own. If that tanked ...

      --
      Fandroids hate facts.
    5. Re:Crime doens't pay well by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I have to disagree somewhat here.
      Pimping ain't easy, but pimping is PROFITABLE.

    6. Re:Crime doens't pay well by Espressor · · Score: 1

      Yep, and to support this here is the obligatory Freakonomics reference (emphasis mine):

      http://www.wikisummaries.org/Freakonomics:_A_Rogue_Economist_Explores_the_Hidden_Side_of_Everything (Chapter 3):

      In Chapter 3, Levitt offers an in-depth discussion of the economic workings of a Chicago drug gang, shattering the common misconception that all drug dealers are wealthy. His analysis of the financial records of a Chicago gang proved that most street-level dealers earned far less than minimum wage. He turns to the socioeconomic context of most gangs for an explanation of the incentives that compel young men to become drug dealers. The influence of gangs is a critical part to the function of the economy because it consistently creates jobs and programs to the fight the prevalent issues.

    7. Re:Crime doens't pay well by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They don't do it for the pay. The guy who ended up with those logbooks from the Chicago crack dealing gang found that the corner guy made something like 3.15 per hour. His interviews suggested that they did this because of the small, small chance that they might move up (their manager/leader was keeping 10k per month himself and he was local). Anyone who hadn't moved up in awhile would generally quit working for the gang.

      Interestingly the gang paid death benefits to the families of the deceased. There was a 25% chance of being wounded in 4 years of working a low level dealing job. I don't recall the death rate he calculated.

      These guys might have hoped to learn how to run their own scam at some point. I tend to think we believe most big criminals get caught, it makes us feel better. I think that is off base.

    8. Re:Crime doens't pay well by KDR_11k · · Score: 1

      Your Nazi agenda aside, crime usually doesn't require many qualifications so people who don't have the degrees for a regular job will get a crime job. Money laundering seems less degrading than burger flipping.

      --
      Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
    9. Re:Crime doens't pay well by KingAlanI · · Score: 1

      As _Freakonomics_ put it, why do crack dealers still live with their mothers? Because they can't afford to move out

      --
      I listen to both RIAA and non-RIAA stuff if I like the music, tangential business/politics nonwithstanding.
    10. Re:Crime doens't pay well by amoeba1911 · · Score: 1

      Agreed, crime isn't a get rich quick scheme. A successful career in criminal activity requires as much work and dedication as any other career. The skill-set necessary is a bit different, but other than that, it's pretty much the same thing as a "legal" business.
      Crime also has "corporate ladder" where better criminals can become heads and crappy criminals get laid off.
      Same shit.

  11. It means the charges can be presented at court by Sycraft-fu · · Score: 4, Informative

    An indictment is something you have to get in "capital, or otherwise infamous crimes," according to the 5th amendment. It often happens after arrest, but does not have to. Without an indictment, such a crime cannot go to court. It is a laugh test, basically. Fairly low standard of evidence (legally sufficient evidence and reasonable cause to believe) but makes sure people don't get dragged to court for a major crime if things are flimsy.

    Most states don't do indictments except in serious cases, but the feds do them for everything. Had a friend sit on a federal grand jury and they get an indictment for every single illegal immigration case. Never mind they are always 100% straight forward, they still get an indictment. The Feds don't bring something to trial without getting an indictment, even trivial stuff. Just how they do it.

  12. Small time thieves... all smoke and mirrors. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Isn't it absurdly ridiculous how quick they are to catch/follow these types of scams/criminals, but completly useless at catching political lobbying/corruption and wall street scams that cause world wide market unstability, worse than oil price spikes or wars?

    They really have their priorities well planned by the powers that be (bought/bribed).

    1. Re:Small time thieves... all smoke and mirrors. by causality · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Isn't it absurdly ridiculous how quick they are to catch/follow these types of scams/criminals, but completly useless at catching political lobbying/corruption and wall street scams that cause world wide market unstability, worse than oil price spikes or wars?

      They really have their priorities well planned by the powers that be (bought/bribed).

      In the case of political corruption and institutionalized financial scams, the people who benefit from them tend to be the same people who write the rules. They are also the people who determine things like the FBI's budget. It's a classic case of the fox guarding the henhouse.

      --
      It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education. - Einstein
  13. What About Phishing? by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 1

    It's really great that the FBI has finally caught up to these botnet syndicates, and this is now regular police work. I'm glad to be paying for it with my taxes.

    When will the FBI get serious about phishing?

    --

    --
    make install -not war

  14. Following the money by Animats · · Score: 1

    This is what the FBI should be doing about online crime - following the money and taking down the people handling it.

    The only problem is that these are the small fish. They haven't yet reached the people at the top. But they'll know who they are.

  15. Err.... by toby · · Score: 2, Interesting

    What's "legal" about Microsoft?! Convicted multiple times in anti-trust actions. Never out of the courts. Lost thousands of smaller cases.

    Gates hasn't got an honest bone in his body, all his reputation laundering notwithstanding.

    --
    you had me at #!
    1. Re:Err.... by Sycraft-fu · · Score: 2, Insightful

      If you seriously think anti-trust law is at all similar to criminal law then you are extremely uneducated in legal matters. Fundamentally Microsoft is a legal business. I don't care if you don't like that, it is the truth. It is legal to sell software. Even using somewhat "underhanded" tactics like bundling is legal. It is only a problem if you are a monopoly. In that case it isn't illegal like "You go to jail for it," it just means that the government can take remedies against the anti-competitive behavior. Maybe fines, maybe forcing things to be released to the public, maybe a break up, etc. You'll notice it is civil actions that are taken, not criminal charges.

      However fine, leave him off the list then. I can find plenty more like Meg Whitman, Carol Bartz, and so on. There are a lot of business people who have made a lot of money in legit businesses. This is only concentrating on the super successful ones, the multi-millionaire to billionaire ones. The point is that if you are lucky, skilled, and are at the top of something in demand you can make a ton of money. Crime is no different. The crime bosses are not unique in their case.

      But please, leave off the MS stuff. It seems like you are allowing your personal dislike for them to cloud your judgment on the reality of the situation.

    2. Re:Err.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Fuck you faggot.

      I win.

  16. well by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    the title of your post is "crime doesn't pay"

    the fact that you cite bill gates as an example of this is at least mildly ironic.

  17. Off-topic by M.+Baranczak · · Score: 1

    Why do people say "the Ukraine" and "the Netherlands"? You don't say "the Russia" or "the Spain".

    1. Re:Off-topic by biobogonics · · Score: 1

      Why do people say "the Ukraine" and "the Netherlands"? You don't say "the Russia" or "the Spain".

      For the same reason people say "the Bronx" and Brooklyn.

    2. Re:Off-topic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You forgot "the Congo".

    3. Re:Off-topic by xaxa · · Score: 1

      "The Ukraine" is incorrect, it was short for "The Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic", but the country is now called "Ukraine".

      "The Netherlands" means "The Low Lands" (nether=low in English). Compare "The United States/Kingdom/Arab Emirates".

  18. Because it is The Netherlands by SmallFurryCreature · · Score: 1

    As in The United States.

    It is MULTIPLE Netherlands (lowlands). You might also know of the country name Holland? WRONG. Holland is just two provinces in The Netherlands. North and South Holland. The various provindes joined up and became The Netherlands. Sort of like Great Britain or indeed the USA.

    Russia and Spain are organized as "simple" countries. There is only ONE Russia and ONE Spain.

    --

    MMO Quests are like orgasms:

    You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.

  19. THE Ukraine? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    wow, the Russia, Ukraine, the Kazakhstan AND the Belarus? damn

  20. Some of them do make good money by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    I met quite a few people here in LA who claim to do similar online crimes (identity theft). What I find a funny coincidence is that they are all Easter European (majority Russians) but they seem to make GOOD money. Always dressed in the most expensive brands with the latest gadgets and 60k+ cars.

    There are a couple of Russian black market websites that you need to be verified by three other people to join. You can buy anything from emailing lists to bank accounts. They will usually buy black AMEX for less than $5 each and use that to order very expensive products (like a $2k special edition cell phone). They will then sell those products on ebay for half the price but still making a huge profit on each transaction. Obviously their method is flawed so I asked them "How are you so sure you won't get caught?". Their reply seems to be the same for all of them, "The FBI has bigger fish to catch"!

    What scares me the most is that they have friends working at legitimate brand stores who copy your CC once you buy something from them and those stores are in WEST LA.

    1. Re:Some of them do make good money by airdweller · · Score: 1

      ...but they seem to make GOOD money. Always dressed in the most expensive brands with the latest gadgets and 60k+ cars.

      Unlike the local criminals who always stock up at Goodwill and buy cars at junkyards, right? :)

  21. security on bank cards? by rastamutz · · Score: 0

    On my debet card i have a magnetic stripe and a chip. For home banking i got a two way encryption thingie. Nothing has happened in belgium. Serious magnetic stripes (or plain embossed letters) are so eighties.... The first thing i do with my fresh debet card is getting a nice big magnet and suck the stripe to oblivion

  22. Zeus Trojan by Alex+Belits · · Score: 1

    Zeus.
    Trojan.

    THIS IS GREEK MYTHOLOGY!!!

    (and, of course, madness and blasphemy in its context)

    --
    Contrary to the popular belief, there indeed is no God.
  23. It's Ukraine, no "the" by avgapon · · Score: 1

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Name_of_Ukraine http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/ukraine

  24. better idea by ILuvRamen · · Score: 1

    I've barely started hearing about the whole zeus infection a few months ago and the FBI is already taking them out left and right. Why, after over 2 years, can't they find the assholes writing that fake antivirus crap that I have to remove from my customers' computers every day? I mean sure, I'm making a ton of money off the repair bills, but it's annoying and absolutely absurd that it's gone on this long! Does anyone know what's going on with that one?

    --
    Google's Super Secret Search Algorithm: SELECT @search_results FROM internet WHERE @search_results = 'good'
  25. By that logic, it could be bad for anyone by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Just change the news summary to an equally true singling-out of some other unrelated characteristic. Say most of the mules use unpatented pain relief medicine, or voted for cat as favorite pet, or use Microsoft products. If the existing story demonized visiting students, it can demonize anyone.

  26. Um, they got in the US easily? by Sp00nMan · · Score: 1

    I am more concerned about how easy it was for the to get into this country with fake passports. I mean, after 9/11 you would think it would be a little more secure. Now I bet we have tons of terrorists in here using the exact same method...sigh

  27. Exactly... by KingAlanI · · Score: 1

    ...Around here, I always seem hear 'follow the money' as the way to deal with online financial crooks.

    --
    I listen to both RIAA and non-RIAA stuff if I like the music, tangential business/politics nonwithstanding.