Slashdot Mirror


How Do Browsers Scale?

An anonymous reader writes "Benchmarking browsers is a somewhat silly exercise, since scores cannot be replicated on a variety of hardware, and it is not uncommon for even the same system to fail to replicate benchmarks scores, especially in JavaScript tests in two succeeding runs. The guys over at ConceivablyTech have an interesting approach, running browsers through multiple tests on different sets of hardware (including an Android smartphone), and showing the scaling differences between browsers when you are using a dual-core netbook on the low-end and a six-core desktop on the high-end. They also tested HTML5 on Firefox mobile and found the browser has better HTML5 support than the current Firefox 4 Beta 6."

20 of 141 comments (clear)

  1. Conclusion: Firefox 3.6 scales best across cores by PatPending · · Score: 3, Informative
    Rather than read a three page comparison, here's the conclusion:

    Firefox 3.6 scales best across cores

    --
    What one fool can do, another can. (Ancient Simian Proverb)
  2. Need a better client-side scripting language by Ynot_82 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Why, oh why did javascript become the defacto client-side scripting language for the browser
    If you want to scale horizontally across multi-cores, you need a language that allows easy multi-threading and concurrency
    About the only thing JS offers for concurrency is that horrid settimeout function

    What we need is a better scripting language
    Why not incorporate a Python interpreter into browsers, and develop a stripped down sub-set of python for use on the web
    I see no technical issues in doing this, only trying to battle the inertia of JS

    1. Re:Need a better client-side scripting language by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Why not a VM that runs bytecode, and JIT compiling, so your favourite language can be used?

    2. Re:Need a better client-side scripting language by Ynot_82 · · Score: 3, Informative

      Javascript != Java
      Oracle has no sway over javascript

    3. Re:Need a better client-side scripting language by rantomaniac · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Wait, what?

      Python as a choice of multithreading-enabled language? You are aware that CPython has a global lock and only one thread can execute Python code at once?
      Javascript will be more multicore friendly than Python when web workers get widely implemented.

      And what's the point of developing a brand new sub-set of python with a brand new interpreter and set of libraries? You might as well just compile python to javascript, there's not a lot of impedance mismatch between them. Python is mostly useful because of its wealth of libraries, other than that it's just a generic dynamically-typed language with a certain syntax.

    4. Re:Need a better client-side scripting language by icebraining · · Score: 3, Interesting

      You might as well just compile python to javascript

      Some people do.

    5. Re:Need a better client-side scripting language by spinkham · · Score: 4, Informative

      Javascript runtimes are way faster then most other scripting languages at the moment.

      If you go to the benchmark game you'll see v8 is about 6.5x faster then python and tracemonkey is 3.8x faster.

      The only credible "scripting" language runtime that is faster then Javascript is LuaJIT, and Lua has nowhere near the features that JavaScript does.

      --
      Blessed are the pessimists, for they have made backups.
    6. Re:Need a better client-side scripting language by kripkenstein · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Why not a VM that runs bytecode, and JIT compiling, so your favourite language can be used?

      Several reasons. First, all such VMs - the JVM, .NET, Mono - have far worse startup performance than JavaScript. That's why Java applets never took off. While those VMs improved in that respect, they still lag far behind JS in startup time. They are optimized for long-running processes, not small client scripts that should get going instantaneously. Different goals here.

      Second, there is no clear open standard for such a VM anyhow. The JVM and CLR are known to have various patents around them; we have recently seen Oracle sue Google, and Microsoft execs have admitted that Mono is only free from risk because it is licensed by Microsoft. So neither is a good foundation for something meant to be truly open and free, like the Web should be.

      Third, existing JavaScript engines are, by far, the fastest implementations of dynamic languages out there (much faster than such languages running on the JVM, .NET or Mono - Jython, IronPython, etc.). IMHO it makes sense to have a low bar for writing scripts for websites. You shouldn't need to do C/C++ memory management, or write lots of static typing definitions, to add a little scripting to your website. So something like JavaScript, Python or Ruby makes sense. But again, this last point is clearly debatable, that's just my opinion.

    7. Re:Need a better client-side scripting language by nairb774 · · Score: 3, Informative

      And Jython does not have a GIL. In much the same way there are multiple implementations of JS (tracemonkey, spidermonkey, v8, ...) there are multiple implementations of Python (CPython, Jython, PyPy, ...)

      In the end, multithreading support is not a language limitation in either language, it usually is a implementation limitation.

  3. Re:Fast enough by icebike · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Actually the whole "scaling" measurement is pretty much a bogus issue, because at any one time you have the machine you have.

    You can easily get another browser but you can't quickly or cheaply run out and get a different computer just to obtain more cores.

    Further, the results are bogus (by their own omission) because the one browser that should make the best use of multiple cores (Chrome) was not able to do so because of a flaw in the benchmark in use. When the tool is broken, what is the point of publishing results?

    --
    Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
  4. Re:Conclusion: Firefox 3.6 scales best across core by icebike · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Nope.

    The only takeaway you need is:

    Chrome 8 had the smallest gain, which, however is due to coding flaw in the Sunspider benchmark that holds back the processing horsepower of the Phenom II X6 processor in general.

    Translation: Our results are totally bogus because our tool was broken but rather than fix that, we are just going to shovel these results out there anyway.

    --
    Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
  5. dual-core netbook on the low-end? by nurb432 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    That's NOT low end. Funny how marketing is so skilled in manipulating peoples perceptions.

    --
    ---- Booth was a patriot ----
  6. Re:Dual core netbook is low-end? by c6gunner · · Score: 5, Funny

    I was surprised by that, too. Dual-Core is my high end, with a PIII on the low end.

    Cool. So what's the weather like in Uganda, this time of year?

  7. Re:Dual core netbook is low-end? by commodore64_love · · Score: 3, Funny

    Wet with a chance of noisy lines & 24k dialup.

    --
    "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
  8. Yay bench by kangsterizer · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Another meaningless benchmark that claims to replace all the previous meaningless benchmarks. Yawn.

  9. CTRL + Mouse wheel by Shmpoo · · Score: 3, Informative

    Hold CTRL and scroll your mouse wheel to scale your web browser...

    1. Re:CTRL + Mouse wheel by corychristison · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I use the keyboard Ctrl plus +/- keys to using the mouse you insensitive clod!

  10. What we need by metrix007 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Is 64 bit versions of browsers. Proper session management. Proper Adblocking. An extension framework. Configurability.

    At the moment, IE and Firefox are the only ones with their head in the game. If Chrome and Opera want to get ahead, then fix what lacks.

    --
    If you ignore ACs because they are anonymous - you're an idiot.
  11. Re:FUCK JavaScript by Required+Snark · · Score: 3, Insightful

    This post is proof that there is no lower age or lower intelligence limit on who posts on Slashdot.

    --
    Why is Snark Required?
  12. Re:Thrash for several hours before benchmarking by jcupitt65 · · Score: 3, Informative

    It can also be poorly-coded websites.

    The BBC's news page used to have an annoying javascript news ticker that ran across the top of the page. As it ran it built a slowly larger and larger array of something or other and memuse would slowly creep up. When I stopped having that as my home page my ff memory problems stopped.