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Comcast Migrating Customers To DNSSEC Resolvers
ctg1701 passes along this quote from a Comcast announcement:
"Starting today we will begin migrating customers who have opted out of our Domain Helper service over to our production DNSSEC-validating servers. This will happen first in a selected part of our Virginia network, and will later expand to all markets in the following sixty days, at which point all of our customers who have opted out of Domain Helper will be migrated. After this has been completed, we will migrate the rest of our customers, which we anticipate will stretch into the early part of 2011."
My other choice being.... dialup.
Comcast sucks, but it is the only choice for many of us. Competition doesn't work if there isn't any.
Domain helper.. is that the crap that automatically relocates you to some ad serving search website when you input an unrecognized dns in the web browser? That kind of crap is why I switched to 4.1.1.1
Had no idea what it was either until I read this. http://blogs.techrepublic.com.com/networking/?p=234
How does it feel to be a liar with pants constantly on fire?
If you haven't opted out of Domain Helper ("helpfully" redirecting your 404's to advertising), it doesn't mean anything yet. If you are, it means your DNS lookups are going to be done over a secure channel, which in theory makes it much more difficult to perform DNS redirection attacks (where you look up www.google.com but a hiacking means that you get back the IP address for http://ebay.spamwarezdeath.ru./ In short, it's a Good Thing ;)
Dislike the Electoral College? Lobby your state to join the National Popular Vote Interstate Compact.
OpensDNS has the same flaws as Comcast's Domain Helper service (ie does not return NXDOMAIN), GoogleDNS has some issues I can't remember and for us has pretty significant latency.
There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
No, Comcast is going to offer DNS servers that properly handle DNSSEC including passing along signed root answers. It is up to the client whether they wish to accept or reject unsigned domains (or in the case of anti-spam appliances probably give additional weight to non-signed domains).
There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
For those of us on Comcast, what does this mean?
Whenever I am offered the opportunity to opt out of something by a company, I know it's probably a good idea to opt out.
Also, I've had very flaky internet service the past week or so, although I am not in this market (Minneapolis area). My equipment all seems to work fine, and of course there could be any number of causes, but this seems interesting.
DNSSEC security is an Internet standard and it means that we are enabling it for our domains and will validate others once it is rolled out globally. I suggest you read through http://www.dnssec.comcast.net/faq.htm which explains why we are rolling this out and what it means for our customers.
Thanks
Chris
Comcast
What this means is that COMCST is now going to tell their customers that your only allowed to visit websites that have joined the system. They may be selling this as security, but make no mistake this is also a huge control system. I may have to cancel my service with them, when this happens. The simply fact is you may have some legimate website who choose willfully NOT to partake in such a control scheme. I may need to visit such a site and COMCST is going to essentially tell me I can't visit that site. No thanks, I don't need a big brother. I'm an adult and I can take care of my own computers and I don't need COMCST protecting me. I don't give a crap what they say, I alone should have the right to decide where I can and can't go on the internet, unless of course you don't believe in freedom. Just give me the fully open internet service I pay for ya dern COMCST Commies!!! Quit interferring with my traffic.
-Anonymous Coward (yeah right like they can't track you down by your ip the way the RIAA is racketering everybody)
You have clearly not read anything about DNSSEC and how this actually ensures you get the traffic you requested without anyone - including Comcast - interfering with your DNS requests. I highly recommend you read http://www.dnssec.comcast.net/faq.htm so you can understand why we are doing this and why the global Internet and DNS is moving to this standard.
Thanks
Chris
Comcast
OpensDNS has the same flaws as Comcast's Domain Helper service (ie does not return NXDOMAIN), GoogleDNS has some issues I can't remember and for us has pretty significant latency.
Currently neither support DNSSEC validation and with us enabling DNSSEC on our recursive resolvers, we are disabling Domain Helper. Please check out http://www.dnssec.comcast.net/faq.htm for more details.
Thanks
Chris
Comcast
I've been using these months while they've been available for testing. The very nature of DNSSEC kills the 404 helper service, and provides an extra level of security. For anyone that wants to use them now without being migrated automatically someday, just use 75.75.75.75 and 75.75.76.76 for the DNS.
What does this mean for webmasters? Are all of us going to need DNSSEC keys on our websites or does this just apply to comcast's array of websites? I wasn't aware that DNS had any kind of security issue which would warrant a revamp. How will this affect the future of the web?
This has little to do with websites and more to do with the zones in the DNS for the websites. This adds an additional layer to protect the DNS from attacks. I suggest if you want more information, please read the following: http://www.dnssec.comcast.net/faq.htm
Thanks
Chris
Comcast
Oh great. CCast sent shills already.
Actually I am one of the engineers that run the DNS at Comcast, but if you consider me a shill, so be it.
Am I tired already? I read that title as "Revolvers", and I wondered what the hell Comcast was doing selling handguns to people. For about thirty seconds. Then I wondered what the hell a "DNSSEC" revolver was for another thirty seconds. Then I smacked myself, re-read the thread title, and decided to make this utterly pointless post.
Sleep deprivation is a wonderful thing...
If you're stuck with Comcast, there's an "alternative" that's often the best way to go: Comcast Business Internet service. It's run by a separate division of the company from the residential services, one that actually has competition and a decent customer service mindset. The business side also seems to completely avoid stupid stuff like Domain Helper in the first place. For those of you who still use TV or want other Comcast services, note that you can (and want to) mix-and-match Residential and Business services. For example, Residential for TV and Business for Internet -- the business rep who set up my account actually called this out and recommended it to avoid unnecessary restrictions on TV use applied to business accounts (e.g. no DVRs, etc.).
I don't understand all the hate for Comcast, at least here in Colorado Springs. In the past year and a half I've had service with them I've had less than a couple of hours of downtime (at least that was their fault and not me fiddling with my router). Good bandwidth & pings, who could as for more. It really blew me away after spending the past decade on military bases in the middle of nowhere overseas or downrange (1 second+ ping times, 10-30% packet loss, modem class bandwidth).
Yeah, I'll just migrate off Comcast over to that other cable company that offers service right alongside the existing monopoly.
Which I am assuming matters not a whit to those of us using OpenDNS.
I've been extremely happy with Opendns so far. "and entirely unhappy with Comcast's opt-out method"
Inane Comments are Generously Disregarded
http://consumerist.com/2010/09/comcast-wont-give-me-tv-service-because-im-a-home-business-customer.html
"Comcast won't give me TV service because I'm a home business customer"
Location location location.
If you're in an area with a simple or recently updated cable plant, where there's less customers on each node, you will have absolutely excellent performance, like myself.
If you're in an area with 20 year old cable plant that has corroded/loose fittings, bad or marginal amplifiers and other equipment that hasn't received enough love lately, it will be comparable to the sort of Internet access you would receive in hell. Dropped packets, modem resyncing, and so on.
Also, another customer on the same node with bad equipment spewing noise into the upstream channel can also knock you offline. This happens from time to time, resulting in a poor internet connection until the cable company can track down the offending equipment and remove it or disconnect the customer. People stealing cable can also degrade a network, though thankfully with systems going digital and less analog (stealable) service this is less of a problem now.
So basically, it's all up to luck whether cable internet (on any provider) is reliable or not.
>You really should be migrating off of Comcast
So the local telco monopoly is somehow better than the local cable monpoly? Err, seriously? I have dozens of AT&T horror stories and only a couple Comcast ones. Just getting AT&T installed anywhere is this Kafkaesque experience of dealing with multiple departments, multiple liars, multiple lazy no shows, etc who when instructed basic things "This is a new condo, thus you'll need to do more than just terminate at the demarc outside" they just pass the work onto other departments who just pass it back while you're taking off work waiting for them to do anything. With Comcast you deal with a much smaller bureaucracy.
I'm not even going to go into how Comcast business services sells me a 40mbps line for $99 and when I call support I get an American who either knows his shit or will connect me to someone who does without protest. Last time I called about the local telco, I got passed around to something like 4 or 5 departments before anyone even knew what a PTR record was. My first call to Comcast about PTR changes? "Sure, I can do that for you."
I'm not sure why there's this default love of the local telco, but its a bunch of shit. In many markets Comcast is the superior product, and by a long shot.
Chris what is your non-biased take on Comcast forging TCP reset packets and terrible quality HD?
Because guys that run DNS servers are obviously the guys who are responsible for video quality-of-service. Same field, and Comcast has only a couple of engineers running their entire network. I bet Chris also is responsible for designing their logos and what's in their cafeterias and whether the cable installers show up on time.
The topic is DNSSEC, not bandwidth caps or video compression or network traffic filtering.
I would have thought that having a primary source, an engineer relevant to the discussion, was welcome. Instead, it's an excuse to get out the haters. IT guys complain about how they're the ones that take the heat for corporate decisions which they don't control, but the moment it's someone else's IT guy, that person gets the heat for corporate decisions which they don't control. Nice consistency there. What's YOUR company, so we know who YOU are a "shill" for?
I'd be surprised if we hear from Chris again. I know I wouldn't come back. Screw Slashdotters, they don't want information or answers, they want scapegoats and straw men.
Whether Comcast, EFF or the Nazis use DNSSEC is irrelevant to the merits and flaws of DNSSEC. Whether Comcast uses DNSSEC is irrelevant to whether they use ad-readirectors for NXDOMAIN results.
By the way, I think I worked on the DNS server and service that Comcast is using for this, at my previous job. I guess that makes me a shill too. But I'll be damned if I'm going to share anything useful about it, even things that aren't under NDA, to Slashdot.
Everybody gets what the majority deserves.
Are you guys running any tests in Seattle at night? DNS lookups regularly fail after midnight and are generally really spotty from midnight on. It's not a connectivity issue because I can always ssh using an ip address even when my web browser can't load pages due to lookup failures.
No we are not running any tests and our DNS is up and responding. If you are having issues, I would suggest stopping by our customer forums at http://forums.comcast.net to get help.
Thanks
Chris
Comcast
Stop posting press release posts.
Here is some non-Comcastic information - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domain_Name_System_Security_Extensions
Chris what is your non-biased take on Comcast forging TCP reset packets and terrible quality HD?
Actually I have been working in the IETF to help provide better methods for P2P to work on ISP networks after the issues with the TCP reset packets a few years ago. I am sure you can look up some of the RFC items if you search for them.
If you have a problem with your HD quality, I suggest getting someone to come look at that. Given I am an Internet Engineer, I don't work on that side of the business.
Thanks
Chris
Comcast
Stop posting press release posts.
Here is some non-Comcastic information - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domain_Name_System_Security_Extensions
Chris what is your non-biased take on Comcast forging TCP reset packets and terrible quality HD?
I also should mention that reading Wikipedia isn't the most reliable source, although that one is fairly good. I might suggest looking at the following if you don't care for Comcast's write up:
https://www.dnssec-deployment.org/
or the RFCs:
http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc4033
http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc4034
http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc4035
Thanks
Chris
Comcast
Which is false. Im posting AC because I work in "Business Services" at comcast..
I don't know about this specific case but I do run in to this with "home office" accounts alot.
My bet his he wanted Business class internet and "Residential TV" at "Residential TV" costs.
The difference between Res and Biz TV? Well here in Connecticut mainly the COST.
It doesn't matter if its a night club or a guy running a WebDev company our of his attic...its a commercial account.
Biz class tv costs ALOT more then normal TV.
Biz class tv has all sorts of crazy rules and extra fee's to the content providers.
We can not offer VOD/"Pay Per-View" because the content providers are worried you will order it at your BAR and show everyone there for free...or charge at the door.
We can not offer DVR service because the content providers don't want you skipping all the commercials in your packed restaurant.
We can not offer Adult Content (PlayBoy/Spice/etc) to places of business because of the agreements we have with the city. (think of the children!)
on and on..
My bet is the guy in that linked story did not want to pay all this extra money for "less" TV.
The work around is simple: You get 2 account numbers,2 drops, and 2 bills. One is the biz-class internet which your company pays for and the other is your home TV.
Makes doing the taxes simple and if your company is paying you to telecommute you just hand them the whole Biz internet bill.
From what I can tell comcast doesn't care all that much about pushing Biz Class TV(at least in this state) because its to much of a PITA with the regs/fee's and in the end we don't make all that much on it.Not being able to put "upsells" on it like DVR/VOD hurts. The only thing its really good for is keeping ATT/DISH/etc OUT of your company and getting us in the door with the internet/phone.
Do it the other way around, that's what we've done for our employees. First they order Comcast cable only (any package) if they so desire. Some are on satellite and have opted not to do that. Then you order Comcast Business and tie it to your company but the service address is the employee's house. They are more than happy to do that and the few times we've called them to resolve issues that required a truck roll, the tech wasn't a contractor but an actual Comcast employee who knows the the business service. We have consistent quality and service on 12, 22, and 50 Mb connections. When comparing the lost time and IT staff required to resolve issues when we let home users use the residential services (Cable or HellSouth, err AT&T) to the increased cost of service, it continues to pay for itself.
I opted out of Domain Helper by using manually configured DNS servers, OpenDNS at the moment. It seems if you manually migrate to their DNSSEC servers, Domain Helper goes away, as according to the FAQs the two are incompatible.
-={(Astynax)}=-
"Darkness beyond Twilight"
Opting out of domain helper is as simple as changing your DNS servers in your router. Mine point to a OpenDNS (paid), and allow me to block a lot of advertising popups and under-lines.
Google also supplies free DNS servers (8.8.8.8 ).
To do this, I just bridged my router (The comcast business service box), they even told me how to do this. Then I use my own linux box to handle routing. But you can also set up your own dns sources using their box if you want.
The Business services bunch are a whole lot easier to deal with than the home services people.
Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
Actually I am one of the engineers that run the DNS at Comcast, but if you consider me a shill, so be it." - by ctg1701 (311736) on Monday October 18, @06:07PM (#33939512)
Well, at least YOU admitted that you work for COMCAST Chris... HOWEVER:
You also didn't admit what I strongly suspect is true though (myself having worked for CableVision, a like member of your industry in telecommunications)... what is that? Well, ok!
That You are one of your staff, one of a VERY SELECT FEW in fact, who is ALLOWED to speak here on this issue, & others in your firm, specifically lower level techs is my guess, were also STRICTLY WARNED to steer clear of commenting on this publicly online, especially on largely travelled forums like this, or say, DSLReports.com & others like them, or highly trafficked sites like this one is...
Am I right?
Since you're thusfar showing a track-record of 'truth' here at this point?? I trust you will give us a straight answer on this much I just asked above... hopefully!
See, Chris, around here? You have to realize 1 thing: We're pretty aware of "how the show runs" for folks out of any large corporate entity... & that you people can & DO patrol largely travelled sites like this, especially when new news comes out that involves you & yours (COMCAST in this case).
Hell, even "industry notables" who have had enough of that type of crap have sounded-off on it here... & on the very account I am noting (paid trolls/shills etc.- et al) & here is an example thereof:
"It just takes one Ubuntu sympathizer or PR flack to minus-moderate any comment. Unfortunately, once PR agencies and so on started paying people to moderate online communities, and to have hundreds of accounts each, things changed." - by Bruce Perens (3872) on Friday July 30, @04:55PM (#33089192) Homepage Journal
http://linux.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1738364&cid=33089192
APK
P.S.=> Still, do I think you're doing this just to "cover comcast's behind"? No, I think you really MEAN what you're saying about COMCAST now going over to DNSSEC (probably a GOOD THING for you folks & your clientele hopefully)... but, my point is that I know PER MY SUBJECT-LINE NO LESS, just as Mr. Perens quoted above knows from his time @ HP, that only SOME FOLKS from large corporates are "allowed to talk" on various issues online publicly, and I have heard that "go down" myself in fact (but, not a paid shill/troll here, ever) - I am still willing to wager that you are 1 of your companies "Chosen Few" that were allowed to speak on this at all, period... am I right Chris? I wager I am... strongly (but, could be wrong, but... well, we'll see)... apk
You are exactly correct, the two-bill setup is what I have and it works fine.
Business internet, and Residential TV+Phone. Since its a home office setup, I have no paying customers viewing my TV so there is no licensing conflict.
Its actually all on a single drop, split at the demarc before it hits any comcast box.
My static IP allows me to open a couple ports for my clients without comcast security getting all over my case.
Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
when did Slashdot get populated with a bunch of morons who can't change a freaking router DNS setting?
The US should be breaking-up these monopolies, the same way it broke-up the AT&T monopoly.
The US should just nationalize the last mile, treat it as a utility, and avoid all that icky anti-trust litigation.
While I wait for that to happen I'm going to hold my breath until Steve McQueen rides a rainbow-winged pegasus out of my ass.
The reality will probably involve the encroachment of the insurance industry into the ISP realm. You'll need a co-pay to call customer service, and you can only use an ISP from the approved list.
I can't tell whether or not I'm joking.
"All these years believing you're the signified monkey, only to find out you're just a big hunk of nobody cares."
It seems if you manually migrate to their DNSSEC servers, Domain Helper goes away, as according to the FAQs the two are incompatible.
Wait, you mean to say that DNSSEC prevents man-in-the-middle servers from intercepting and modifying the traffic? Sounds like a pretty big flaw in this new "standard", they obviously weren't thinking of long-term monetization opportunities...
Dude, I don't even live in the same country, and I'd have modded you down for turning a corporate matter into a personal attack. Comcast is big, and chances are this fellow had no choice but to carry out his orders. If he doesn't do as he is told, a more compliant replacement will be found.
If you hate the company so much, don't take it out on the worker bees, just take your money and go elsewhere. Don't like the alternatives ? Well tough tits, either start your own ISP or STFU. Bitching at a sysadmin will not get you anywhere, at best you will browbeat someone who doesn't deserve your ire, at worst he will mess with your service like any self-respecting BOFH should.
-Billco, Fnarg.com
"...Actually I am one of the engineers that run the DNS at Comcast..."
Until tomorrow morning, at which time you will be fired on the spot for actually providing useful information to Comcast customers.
http://dns-opt-out.comcast.net/help-index.php
"Stuck with Comcast"??? From my perspective as a network engineer, Comcast is taking the lead in deploying IPv6, and now DNSSec. They are putting the rest of the corporate world to shame on these fronts. (And I am neither an employee, nor a customer of Comcast.)
In computer security circles Comcast is being congratulated for making this step and I certainly add my congratulations.
Oh, this will also be the end the odious Comcast DNS redirection scheme as DNSSEC will make it impossible once the top level domains (com, net, org, edu, gov etc) are signed. Comcast cannot become involved in any domain other than those they own. (E.g. comcast.com, comcast.net)
Kevin Oberman, Network Engineer, Retired
The internet is shared.
If it wasn't shared, it wouldn't work.
You're special forces then? That's great! I just love your olympics!
OK, since you've clearly identified yourself, I'm going to write this with as much civility as I can muster. As I've already stated in this discussion, I'm a "home-business" subscriber. Frankly, I've had excellent support and follow-up from non-technical contacts, while technical support has been truly abysmal (while trying to opt-out of "Domain Helper"). Would you point us to either (a) written documentation or (b) phone information that would provide information on how to use the "business gateway" to configure DNS services of our own choosing. You'll note that I have not posted anonymously, which apparently causes me to run the risk of being modded down. You can follow the story of my last two or three months with Comcast by clicking on my username. Thank you.
"Here's what's happening. You're starting to drive like your Dad..." - Red Green
>>>The US should just nationalize the last mile, treat it as a utility, and avoid all that icky anti-trust litigation.
It can't.
Antitrust legislation is constitutional (says the supreme court), but nationalization of the lines is not. There are limits to what the US Government can do.
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall