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Ray Ozzie Quit... What Took Him So Long?

Posted by ryuzaki0 on from the paychecks-aren't-bad dept.

GMGruman writes "The mainstream press acts surprised that Microsoft's chief software architect is resigning, but InfoWorld's Woody Leonhard explains through a review of Ozzie's efforts at Microsoft how the Redmond giant has consistently ignored and squandered the design savvy that Ozzie has tried to bring to the table. If you ever wondered why Microsoft's products like Windows and Office are so bloated and underwhelming, while Apple's are almost always wonderful experiences, this analysis will solve that mystery. And you too will wonder how Ozzie could have lasted so long at a company that doesn't believe in design."

50 of 224 comments (clear)

  1. Wow.... by rotide · · Score: 5, Insightful

    If you ever wondered why Microsoft's products like Windows and Office are so bloated and underwhelming, while Apple's are almost always wonderful experiences, this analysis will solve that mystery.

    No bias here..

    1. Re:Wow.... by Dan667 · · Score: 3, Funny

      please don't throw a chair steve.

    2. Re:Wow.... by recoiledsnake · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Seriously, Windows 7 runs on old Pentium 4's nicely and Office 2007 and 2010 are not really bloated compared to their functionality. But iTunes on the other hand....

      --
      This space for rent.
    3. Re:Wow.... by Moryath · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Yeah. the testing I've done on it shows that Win7 runs nicely on decently old hardware - actually runs better than Vista on the same hardware - provided you turn off the Aero interface. Do you lose visual perks? Sure. But it runs just fine.

      I get the feeling the poster who submitted this just happened to be a brainwashed Apple fanboi. And I echo your complaints about the shitty quality of iTunes, which slows any system it gets on to a crawl.

    4. Re:Wow.... by ArcherB · · Score: 2, Insightful

      If you ever wondered why Microsoft's products like Windows and Office are so bloated and underwhelming, while Apple's are almost always wonderful experiences, this analysis will solve that mystery.

      No bias here..

      I thought that mystery was solved in this video.

      --
      There is no "I disagree" mod for a reason. Flamebait, Troll, and Overrated are not substitutes.
    5. Re:Wow.... by bhcompy · · Score: 2, Insightful

      and Office 2007 and 2010 are not really bloated compared to their functionality

      One word: Ribbons.

    6. Re:Wow.... by Missing.Matter · · Score: 3, Insightful

      If ever a story needed to be modded flame bait. The summary just begs for reactionary keyboard banging.

    7. Re:Wow.... by zombieChan51 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      MS products are not bloated hunks of shit that are force on you at work by ill-informed IT managers

      Not quite the case, the developers choose the tools at my place of work. We're using Microsoft products.

    8. Re:Wow.... by numbski · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Does it matter when it's true?

      --

      Karma: Chameleon (mostly due to the fact that you come and go).

    9. Re:Wow.... by numbski · · Score: 3, Insightful

      No - he's talking about UI consistency and overall layout, not performance on older hardware. Whether you meant to do it or not, you've set up a straw man here.

      Granted, ESPECIALLY with iTunes, and ESPECIALLY with the latest version, Apple seriously violates it's own UI guidelines. As of right now, everything always looks greyed out, and the minimize/maximize/close buttons aren't located where they're supposed to be, and they're vertically oriented instead of horizontally.

      Apple's no saint, but the original poster's point still stands. Overall, Apple still wins on this.

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      Karma: Chameleon (mostly due to the fact that you come and go).

    10. Re:Wow.... by TemporalBeing · · Score: 4, Informative

      Yeah. the testing I've done on it shows that Win7 runs nicely on decently old hardware - actually runs better than Vista on the same hardware - provided you turn off the Aero interface. Do you lose visual perks? Sure. But it runs just fine.

      All due to a super huge effort to (i) reduce dependencies, and (ii) eliminate circular dependencies between kernel and user space. The effort started with Vista, and Win7 is a lot farther along. Win8 (whatever it will be) should do better yet. Though I believe that they already got to the point where dependencies only go one way with Win7 - that is, kernel space does not depend on anything in user space as of Win7. (If not Win7, certainly Win8 should be that way.)

      --
      Truth is like the sun. You can shut it out for a time, but it ain't goin' away. - Elvis Presley (source: imdb.com)
    11. Re:Wow.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Um, the bloat he is talking about is not performance bloat, but design bloat. Apple products generally win on look and feel by a long shot. Without that design advantage, apple would not bring anything to the table. They focus on design to a fault, letting features and technical prowess slide as long as it looks good. Microsoft products look designed by comittee, with some good ideas, but a general lack of cohesiveness. Features are all over the place, and the steps to perform each kind of task are inconsistent. Their choice of what features to showcase and which to hide away is often baffling to me.

      But if you disagree with Apple's design sense, it can be far more off-putting than the more mish-mash style of Microsoft, because the things you dislike about it permeate the entire product. In certain segments far more people agree with apple's design sense than with the competition, these are the segments where Apple wins. Generally these segments are artistic leaning - which makes sense. Ipod which caters to musical demographic, and design/art school for the OS. Other segments, such as office products, want something more utilitarian than strongly designed.

      If microsoft wants to compete with apple in those segments, it needs to add some design, and it's a shame Ozzie has left. However, there are segments where Microsoft already dominates, which don't have a strong need for it. They may instead choose to focus on these areas where they are strong rather than try and compete in areas where they are weak.

    12. Re:Wow.... by weicco · · Score: 2, Informative

      The sentence starts with conditional "if" and it looks like a question but has no actual question mark so I'm not sure if that is a question that one should answer or a statement of opinion. But either way it is highly biased sentence. If it's a question then it's a leading one and would be objected if asked in court of law. If it's a statement of opinion then it's biased by definition.

      And no, I have never wondered that exact thing ;)

      --
      You don't know what you don't know.
    13. Re:Wow.... by vux984 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Actually, it often runs SLOWER if you turn off the aero interface. If your GPU can do your desktop rendering, let it. You did say 'older' hardware, and that can mean just about anything, but a lot of what I consider 'older hardware' is better with Aero on.

      But I agree with the sentiments that the submission is an apple fanboi. I'm writing this on a macbook pro but itunes is anything but archtypical good design. Its a music library manager, and ipod/iphone sync tool ... already the two should be separate. Lets tack on a web browser type thing (iTMs) except its not really the web that it browses, its apples proprietary alternative. What a great idea! How can we make this less appealing? How about a social network!! Hello pointless bloat that makes office look lean and task-focused.

      As if that's not enough, lets name it Ping! It rhymes with Bing! from Microsoft and also happens to be named the same as a standard network utility.

      Oh, and one more thing, lets violate the user interface standard by making the window control widgets smaller than normal and arrange them vertically instead of horizontally too. Steve Job's would blow a gasket if someone else dared to violate his beloved UI standard.

      If Microsoft wrote iTunes people would point at it as a symbol of everything that is wrong with Microsoft.

    14. Re:Wow.... by shadowrat · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I would grant that apple's UIs are more consistent and less bloated. Wonderful experience is a strange choice of words that reeks of bias. I expect microsoft products to put everything and the kitchen sink into the UI. I expect apple to carefully place only the items they think are most important in the UI. I think the wonderfulness of the experience is tied closely to how often you agree with apple's choice of included functionality.

    15. Re:Wow.... by recoiledsnake · · Score: 2, Insightful

      No - he's talking about UI consistency and overall layout, not performance on older hardware. Whether you meant to do it or not, you've set up a straw man here.

      Err, the quote was that Windows and Office were bloated(which directly translates to bad performance on older hardware), not about UI consistency of layout. You're the one setting up a straw man here.

      --
      This space for rent.
    16. Re:Wow.... by metamatic · · Score: 3, Funny

      Office 2007 and 2010 are not really bloated compared to their functionality. But iTunes on the other hand....
      iTunes isn't bloated for its functionality either, it's just that not many people want a ringtone editing, movie playing, music playing, address book notepad and to-do list syncing, media serving, radio streaming, podcast managing, application installing, e-book installing online store for movies, music, applications, books and ringtones, with a social network glued on top, all in one application.

      --
      GCHQ Quantum Insert installed. If only our tongues were made of glass, how much more careful we would be when we speak
    17. Re:Wow.... by VGPowerlord · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Err, the quote was that Windows and Office were bloated(which directly translates to bad performance on older hardware), not about UI consistency of layout. You're the one setting up a straw man here.

      No, setting up a strawman is taking what someone said and misrepresenting it.

      For instance, you just did it by referring to "bloated" and ignoring the "and underwhelming, while Apple's are almost always wonderful experiences" part that followed it that would most certainly refer to the UI as well.

      --
      GLaDOS for President 2016! "Well here we are again. It's always such a pleasure." -- GLaDOS, 2011
    18. Re:Wow.... by VGPowerlord · · Score: 2, Insightful

      If Microsoft wrote iTunes people would point at it as a symbol of everything that is wrong with Microsoft.

      If Microsoft wrote iTunes, corporations would point at it and get the European Union to pursue anti-trust action against Microsoft by "forcing" everyone to use iTMS.

      --
      GLaDOS for President 2016! "Well here we are again. It's always such a pleasure." -- GLaDOS, 2011
    19. Re:Wow.... by davester666 · · Score: 2, Funny

      Typical Microsoft off by 1 error. Aim for the CEO, hit the CTO...

      --
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  2. Take Ballmer with you by HangingChad · · Score: 2, Insightful

    That would be really helpful. MSFT would be a better company without monkey boy.

    --
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  3. ok... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    while Apple's are almost always wonderful experiences
    http://www.theonion.com/video/apple-introduces-revolutionary-new-laptop-with-no,14299/

  4. Maybe Microsoft HR got confused... by Da_Biz · · Score: 2, Funny

    ...and thought his resignation letter was spoofed by spyware running on a Windows PC.

  5. finally by zill · · Score: 5, Funny

    If you ever wondered why Microsoft's products like Windows and Office are so bloated and underwhelming, while Apple's are almost always wonderful experiences, this analysis will solve that mystery.

    Finally the mystery has been solved! The suspense was killing me.

    1. Re:finally by recoiledsnake · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Now comes word that Microsoft's head designer Ray Ozzie -- officially Chief Software Architect, de facto the highest-level designer in the company, with a purview outside the tired Windows/Office megalith -- has decided to take a break.

      Someone that gets confused between a designer and an architect has no right to write a tech article such as this one.

      --
      This space for rent.
    2. Re:finally by Ethanol-fueled · · Score: 4, Funny

      Still, they probably snatched him up just so that he wouldn't bring his talent anywhere else.

      Being top talent at Microsoft must be like being an environmental liazon for BP.

  6. I never wondered why Office was so bloated by decipher_saint · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Inside every version of "Word" is every previous version of word, so you can open that Office '97 document just as easily as your 2010 document.

    Bloat accrues in most software I reckon.

    That said, it's sad to see when talent is trumped by management but I think we all know that's par for the course in IT.

    --
    crazy dynamite monkey
    1. Re:I never wondered why Office was so bloated by UnknowingFool · · Score: 3, Informative

      I've thought OpenOffice was much better at opening older versions of Word (especially 97 versions) than Office . It seemed something changed after Office 2003. But that's just my perception.

      --
      Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
    2. Re:I never wondered why Office was so bloated by bjourne · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Word has lots of features yes. But it is not slow or more unresponsive when compared to other office suites. OpenOffice always loads much slower than MS Office for me on similar hardware. MS Word's speed is on par with Abiword, although the former has many more features. Excel on par with Gnumeric, OpenOffice Calc is the slowest one by a margin. The reason may be that Windows preloads the libraries MS Office uses and therefore gets a speed advantage. Never the less, the end result is a better user experience.

      --
      Football Odds
    3. Re:I never wondered why Office was so bloated by decipher_saint · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I think there was a cutoff at some point (Office 2005?) where it only went back as far as 2003, but I've had some experience working with Office guts and there are some mind-bendingly old components still being used that only kick in with specific document versions.

      Mind you, it's been about 4 years since I mucked about in there so who knows what changed, but the point I was trying to make still stands.

      The longer a piece of software is around the more likely it is to bloat.

      --
      crazy dynamite monkey
    4. Re:I never wondered why Office was so bloated by numbski · · Score: 3, Insightful

      This is the precise reason that i use .rtf as much as possible. If I don't need any super-fancy formatting, I always save as .rtf. Cross platform (for the most part), opens in just about every version of everything that I'm aware, including Microsoft Works if I recall correctly.

      --

      Karma: Chameleon (mostly due to the fact that you come and go).

    5. Re:I never wondered why Office was so bloated by TemporalBeing · · Score: 2, Informative

      I've thought OpenOffice was much better at opening older versions of Word (especially 97 versions) than Office . It seemed something changed after Office 2003. But that's just my perception.

      OpenOffice writes better Microsoft Office documents than Microsoft Office does. Whether they legacy binary formats, or the newer XML formats. I've taken to using OO Writer for most things, and then ensuring everything is still there when I make the Word version, though it's mostly just the cross-references that I have to redo for some reason.

      --
      Truth is like the sun. You can shut it out for a time, but it ain't goin' away. - Elvis Presley (source: imdb.com)
    6. Re:I never wondered why Office was so bloated by jgrahn · · Score: 2, Informative

      Because people are using their word processors as typesetters. I actually have to keep two copies of TeXLive installed, because some time in the last two years someone tweaked one of the layout algorithms slightly and the result is that a small number of paragraphs have line breaks in different places. Unfortunately, this means that one of the chapters in my second book gets typeset differently with the '08 and '10 editions. If I want to produce changes for the second printing, I have to minimise the number of pages, and a reflow on chapter 4 with the new editions upsets all of the page numbers for subsequent pages, so I have to use the old version.

      I hope that by "someone" you mean "someone at my college/company" because Knuth really, really hates when someone does such changes (there's a tirade on his homepage about a hacked Computer Modern where a certain greek letter got slightly wider).

      If not, you should file a high-importance bug report with TeXLive.

    7. Re:I never wondered why Office was so bloated by Angst+Badger · · Score: 3, Informative

      MS Word's speed is on par with Abiword, although the former has many more features.

      MS Word is vastly faster than Abiword if you're working on a large (and by large, I mean 1000+ pages with complex formatting, indexing, etc.) document. But that's a problem that I run into in a lot of FOSS office apps: it seems like the developers on those projects just never use them the way ordinary users in a business environment use them, so it never comes to their attention how badly they perform on real-world tasks. Granted, the ways Word and particularly Excel are used in most corporate environments are horrifying -- using vast spreadsheets as ad hoc databases, for example -- but that's just the way it is. And just because I don't abuse Excel that way doesn't mean that I don't have to deal with documents from people who do.

      What bothers me most is that Office 97 did everything I needed and then some, and very little that's been added in the meantime has been of any use to me. Office 97 ran very well on a 120MHz Pentium with 16 megs of RAM. What I hoped to see come out of FOSS office software was something like that. Instead, we get OpenOffice, which is at least as bloated as MS Office and actually performs less well in many respects.

      This is why I just can't get into fanboyism. Apple, Microsoft, and the equivalent major applications in the FOSS world all suck. They suck in different ways, and depending on what you're doing, one of the three will suck less than the rest. But whichever you choose will still suck -- and by that, I don't mean the less-than-perfect quibbles we all have with pretty much everything; I mean that you'll be dealing with serious deficiencies. If you complain, Apple will tell you that you don't get it, Microsoft will ignore you, and most FOSS developers will tell you to submit a patch if it bothers you so much.

      --
      Proud member of the Weirdo-American community.
  7. Re:It's for the best anyway by oneiros27 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I personally suspect that the people who are smiling all the time are the ones who are insane.

    The ones who frown at least have a chance of being connected to reality.

    --
    Build it, and they will come^Hplain.
  8. That makes sense... by Rombuu · · Score: 4, Funny

    ...I mean look at the elegance and simplicity of Lotus Notes...

    --

    DrLunch.com The site that tells you what's for lunch!
    1. Re:That makes sense... by heidaro · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Clean and elegant applications never sell in corporate environments. They need bloat and features that are never used.

    2. Re:That makes sense... by Belial6 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      You joke, but Microsoft has been trying to make their own version of Notes/Domino for as long as I have been working with it. I remember back in ~1996 I went to a MS event where they were telling us how Exchange was going to be the groupware product that surpassed Notes. It didn't take long before they gave up on creating a groupware environment via technical means, and just worked on redefining the word groupware.

      Now in 2010, the closes they have is Sharepoint. I have been doing some research into it recently as I will soon be doing some work in it, and it appears to be somewhere between Notes/Domino 3 and 4. It appears to be a decade behind.

      I am hoping to be pleasantly surprised because I will be working with it whether it is ahead of it's time or behind.

  9. Pedants, take note. by RightSaidFred99 · · Score: 4, Informative

    This is the very definition of begging the question. They should put that headline in the dictionary as a perfect example of it. If you find someone using "begs the question" to mean "makes me want to ask a question", when you correct them you can point them to this article.

  10. Ding dong! by drlloyd11 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Seriously, this is the man behind Lotus notes and Groove. Two of the biggest piles of snot ever made. His existence at MS was a blight. Now if they can get Balmer to join him they may have something there.

    1. Re:Ding dong! by jitterman · · Score: 2, Informative

      To be fair, the article does point out that there is a wide gulf between his original concepts and what was actually implemented, in both cases.

      Totally agree with giving Balmer the heave-ho though.

      --
      For conscience is the wound, and there's naught to staunch it
  11. Genius? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    TFA lists a series of failed projects spearheaded by the guy, then claims - without any evidence - that the ideas were grand and it was MS which could not deliver - and concludes that Ray is an unappreciated genius of some kind. Yet it is clear even from a short glance that the ideas themselves were flawed or simply another also-ran. Come on, Groove? Azure? Live Mesh?

  12. Microsoft and design by byteherder · · Score: 3, Insightful

    "...company that doesn't believe in design."

    It is not that Microsoft doesn't believe in design, it is that they suck at it. The best case in point is Windows security.

  13. Slashdot = cutting-edge opinion clearinghouse? by eyenot · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Is it just me or is slashdot being used as a battleground for geek opinion? Whenever there's news about some company, that same day, sometimes within a couple of hours, there's counter-news or propaganda that spin the situation or introduce some other closely related variable that seems intended to take advantage of the information the news dissipated. Is slashdot basically commercially compromised at this point?

    --
    "Stratigraphically the origin of agriculture and thermonuclear destruction will appear essentially simultaneous" -- Lee
  14. Doesn't believe in design? by CokoBWare · · Score: 2, Interesting

    The OP is full of sh*t. I worked in MS Hardware at one point, and the UX team there led the way in many aspects of UX in MS's hardware products at one point. This spilled over into their supporting software products too. The company as a whole has been pushing hard in the UX space for quite some time, and there just aren't enough UX specialists to go around... the industry has been in a deficit for quite some time. Apple learned early on the UX side and this has been a tenet for them for quite some time. This is blatant trolling to say MS doesn't believe in design... making broad statements without really knowing what they are talking about. Windows 7 and Office 2010 represent a new era of MS apps with a strong emphasis on UX. IMHO, I think they are great advances in making MS products better overall for the user.

  15. Perhaps it's not enough? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    "Designed by geniuses. Implemented by idiots." The Notes architecture complete revolutionized the way businesses communicated. But the Notes product had so many enormously frustrating gaps and gaffes that people in the trenches hated it."

    Alright. I can buy that.

    "A product called Azure has been released, but the feature set doesn't even begin to match the lofty initial design." ...err, alright...

    "Ozzie's biggest contribution to Microsoft's future direction has to be the Oct. 28, 2006, memo titled "The Internet Services Disruption." An insightful blueprint for the future, Microsoft stood up, took notice, but hasn't followed through very well." ...ok, so I guess that means tha...

    "Two weeks ago, Microsoft disbanded Live Labs, it moved the team over to the Bing group, and the leader of Live Labs left."

    Look, guys. There is more to being a visionary and a leader than simply having amazing pie in the sky ideas. In this place called the real world you actually need to get stuff done, and it seems that Mr. Ozzy has trouble doing that. I love amazing architecture as much as the next guy, but if a design simply never actually sees success for all its genius...well, I’m not sure how great a design it really was.

    At a certain point, the problem might not be that everyone around you is such an idiot, it may be you're not quite as good as you thought you were.

  16. Let's grade on a curve by paulsnx2 · · Score: 5, Informative

    When I was there, Microsoft graded every project on a curve, with compensation in the balance. The "lowest" performers got slammed, the peak performs got rich. I imagine nothing has changed, except fewer people get rich.

    Their system of evaluating and compensating developers rewards "hot dogs", who by any standard are good developers, but penalizes cooperation and useful developer documentation. Anything you might do to help someone on your team be successful automatically and in a very measured way hurts your own compensation. Few developers can rise above this and work with others outside of what is necessary to get the appropriate check marks on the review. And when individuals do work closely with each other, they are very selective as to who they work with. You can't afford to make *everyone* on your team successful. Remember, the bell curve WILL be applied.

    Other mechanisms are used at Microsoft are very good. They have a huge commitment to testing, and a huge commitment to process. They know within a few months into a project when they are going to deliver. They know well in advance when projects are going to be late. They research and know the competition.

    However, at the end of the day, their culture does not allow for clean design. Clean design means working together and making it a priority to make all developers on a team as productive as possible. But even if the differences between developers are tiny, the bell curve will be applied. People will win, and people will lose. And don't think for a moment that subjective decisions do not come into play based on a developer's reputation and ties with other developers.

    In the end, if you don't know how something works, don't expect the comments to be useful. Don't be surprised if two interfaces sit next to each other and both do nearly the same thing. Obviously one developer implemented something, and the next couldn't figure out how to use it.

    Microsoft's bloat is mostly a result of their development culture. Sure, supporting ten years of file formats is a factor, but not as important as their development culture, IMHO.

    1. Re:Let's grade on a curve by PietjeJantje · · Score: 3, Funny

      They know within a few months into a project when they are going to deliver.

      Was this prior or after Windows Vista?

  17. Say what? I have the opposite experience by CAIMLAS · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I have the opposite experience: "Apple" programs are invariably frustrating UI experiences, vs. Microsoft ones, which (aside from the Ribbon of Agitation) are quite a bit more sensible.

    I should note that I'm not a serious user of either OS; I've been using Linux almost exclusively for 12 years, and have only briefly used one or the other for work (roughly equal proportions).

    Considering a development project, I looked at both Xcode and Visual Studio 2008. The ease with which I could start and get a basic app going in VS2k8 was many, many times easier than in Xcode (all previous development has been done on console with vi/vim, cvs, and the like - no GUI stuff).

    I'm not even sure how Apple UIs could be considered 'better'. The only think remotely 'superior' about Apple's UI at this point in the game is their control panel, which is fairly minimal on text and clean. (There are also a lot fewer options, which is significant, IMO.)

    --
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  18. The Wall Street Journal says it best by bolivershagnasty · · Score: 3, Informative

    Mr. Ozzie appeared to lose a key battle with Mr. Sinofsky two years ago when control of Live Mesh, a data synchronization technology developed by Mr. Ozzie's team, shifted to the Windows organization at the company. Read more: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702304410504575560621481900644.html?mod=WSJ_Tech_LEFTTopNews#ixzz12pfWBEBA About a year ago, oversight of another initiative Mr. Ozzie was involved in, its Windows Azure cloud computing technology, moved to the server and tools business run by the division's president, Bob Muglia. Read more: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702304410504575560621481900644.html?mod=WSJ_Tech_LEFTTopNews#ixzz12pfdfzcI