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Bible.com Investor Sues Company For Lack Of Profit

The board of Bible.com claims that it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle, than to make money on the domain name, but an angry shareholder disagrees. From the article: "James Solakian filed the lawsuit in Delaware's Chancery Court against the board of Bible.com for breaching their duty by refusing to sell the site or run the company in a profitable way. The lawsuit cites a valuation done by a potential purchaser that estimated bible.com could be worth more than dictionary.com, which recently sold for more than $100 million."

35 of 181 comments (clear)

  1. There's an easy fix for this by lwsimon · · Score: 3, Insightful

    If the company is unprofitable, then buy up a majority of the stock and run it how you want - or sell your own stock and go do something else.

    No one is forcing investors to own this company.

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    1. Re:There's an easy fix for this by Will2k_is_here · · Score: 2, Interesting

      No they don't. They have a responsibility to do whatever they want to do. If they say shareholders be damned, then shareholders be damned.

      You can't invest in an "environmentally friendly" company and sue them because they aren't being as profitable as you think they could be. They might have other priorities.

    2. Re:There's an easy fix for this by cgenman · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Supposedly, the "investor" was given his shares because of a $400,000 debt that the owners could not pay back. Further, the site hasn't been developed because this shareholder has been fighting with the board about control over the company. So I'm guessing he would like to buy up the majority of the stock, if it were possible. Though I doubt he could dump his shares for the 400k they cost him.

      Of course Bible.com is a bad business idea to begin with. Everyone has a bible, and there are basically billions of searchable bibles online. Religion tends to be face-to-face, or at least televised. Money in religion comes from donations, not advertising. And, of course, a domain name is not a business idea, it is a business asset. Without a real idea, there isn't a real business.

    3. Re:There's an easy fix for this by Duradin · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Once you drink the Free Market kool-aid Profit is your prophet and you shall have no other gods or prophets.

    4. Re:There's an easy fix for this by Culture20 · · Score: 2, Funny

      Money in religion comes from donations, not advertising.

      I wish you had told my church's finance committee this before they looked into buying a 15ft tall caveman cartoon to advertise tithing. Thankfully they balked at the quote, but they printed tons of fliers and some 6ft standups. :(

    5. Re:There's an easy fix for this by lgw · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Actually, it's completely legit to establish in your documents of incorporation that profit is not your chief goal - you can put moral duties first, and the board would then have a fiduciary duty to those goals over profit. No one does, because it makes it hard to find any investors if you do that.

      Bible.com should really have done that, however, if thier intent all along was to focus on prophets over profits, and then the lawsuit wouldn't have merit.

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    6. Re:There's an easy fix for this by pthisis · · Score: 2, Insightful

      In point of fact the current law is that, for for-profit firms, the board's responsibility is to maximize value to shareholders.

      Unless they're in Revlon mode, the board's first legal responsibility is to act in accordance with the articles of incorporation (which may or may not prioritize shareholder value above other corporate goals).

      --
      rage, rage against the dying of the light
    7. Re:There's an easy fix for this by Americano · · Score: 2, Informative

      No, directors have a legal obligation to put the company's interests ahead of their own, and a legal obligation to provide 'good faith' governance in accordance with the corporation's charter.

      There is no legal obligation to 'maximize profit' for your shareholders unless the charter specifically says there is, and even then it needs to be balanced against numerous other goals. In addition, you cannot say "maximize profits" without a time context for doing so: if you maximize profits this quarter by hiring illegal immigrants to staff your factory, firing quality assurance and customer service reps, and selling off company fixtures. And then the firm will go out of business next quarter because it was managed poorly and unsustainably.

      Thus the charter defines the goals, the board of directors and management sets strategy to achieve those goals, and employees implement those strategies. Nowhere in there is a "requirement" to "maximize profit" in any given time frame, or even at all.

  2. who'd have thought.. by Custard+Horse · · Score: 5, Funny

    So, there is no prophet?

  3. For lack of ... prophet? by rekenner · · Score: 4, Funny

    FTFY.

  4. It's easy, actually by vadim_t · · Score: 5, Funny

    All you need to make a camel pass through a needle's eye is to grind it very finely.

    1. Re:It's easy, actually by BrokenHalo · · Score: 2, Funny

      The translators of the bible got it wrong. What they were supposed to say is:

      "It is easier for a man to enter a camel if he stands upon a box."

  5. What are "Christian business principles", exactly? by Daniel+Dvorkin · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I don't think they teach "sell that thou hast, and give to the poor" to aspiring MBAs these days.

    --
    The correlation between ignorance of statistics and using "correlation is not causation" as an argument is close to 1.
  6. It's full of ads by istartedi · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Every once in a while I'll google around for a quote that I know is Biblical, simply because I want the chapter and verse.

    bible.cc is one site that comes up in Google when you do that. It has multiple translations and languages even!

    Bible.cc has bookstore links and just a few small ads. Bible.com has an interstitial, and comes off as "megachurch Christian" rather than Bible-study oriented.

    That they failed to capitalize seems likely; but if every board that failed to capitalize were liable, it'd be a different world, or would it? I've held a number of stocks where there were shareholder class actions, and have always marveled that anybody would want to essentially sue themselves. The only winners are the lawyers. Suits like this are usually just a sign that the company is circling the drain.

    There's really "nothing to see here. Move on".

    --
    For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
  7. No wonder it failed, it broke the 10th Commandment by digitaldc · · Score: 2, Interesting

    10. You shall not covet your neighbor’s house; you shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor his website.

    Maybe if it was set up with little or no regard for profit (like Wikipedia,) it would have had God's blessing and succeeded?

    --
    He who knows best knows how little he knows. - Thomas Jefferson
  8. He should read his own website by x_IamSpartacus_x · · Score: 5, Insightful

    1 Corinthians 6:7
    Lawsuits among Christians are a no-no in the Bible.

    1. Re:He should read his own website by TriZz · · Score: 3, Funny

      I guess you RTFB?

      --
      No matter how hot a girl is - some guy somewhere is sick of her shit.
  9. Inevitably it will lead to this by Ancantus · · Score: 2, Funny

    The Court finds the defendant Jesus Christ guilty of not leveraging your power to make us all rich!

    --
    Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent. -- Isaac Asimov
  10. Re:What are "Christian business principles", exact by AnonymousClown · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Chick-fil-a does it - they're not open on Sundays, treat their workers well, environmental stewardship, and other things that are branded "liberal" by the Fox News crowd and yet, they make boat loads of money doing things that others would think would eat into profitability and make one uncompetitive.

    --
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  11. internet magic at work by Drakkenmensch · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Why would anyone agree to buy the domain name for 100 million dollars when there is no clear way of monetizing it or making it a profitable venture? It's so 1997 to think that the normal rules of business do not apply to the internet, because it's a magical place where there is profit for all and every 50$ investment yields a billion dollar return.

  12. As a matter of fact, you can by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Legally companies do have responsibilities to their shareholders. That is exactly how the system is designed to work. Shareholders are entirely within their legal rights to sue their companies for failing to make decisions which are likely to make the company profitable.

    Maybe you think that on some sort of social level that isn't how it should work. To a lot of uneducated people, investing is paramount to gambling: you invest, you accept the risk, and then you win or lose, and that's it. But in the real world, investing is very different, and plenty of legal responsibility is heaped upon the board of directors to act in the investor's best financial interest.

    1. Re:As a matter of fact, you can by TheRaven64 · · Score: 5, Informative

      Not quite. Legally, the company is required to act in accordance with its charter. Typically, these say something like 'make as much money as possible by engaging in business X'. Sometimes they don't mention money at all, or in the case of companies that do the triple bottom line thing mention money as one of the objectives. When you invest in a company, you are saying that you agree with the company's mission.

      Simply not doing the thing that makes the most profit for the shareholders is never grounds for a successful lawsuit. If it were, then every company performing below the top few percent of the stock market would be legally obliged to liquidate its assets and invest them all in one of the top companies.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    2. Re:As a matter of fact, you can by bberens · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The Board is required to fulfill the company's purpose as laid out in the corporate charter. That may or may not be maximizing profits.

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    3. Re:As a matter of fact, you can by Bill_the_Engineer · · Score: 2, Informative

      IANAL

      Legally companies do have responsibilities to their shareholders. That is exactly how the system is designed to work. Shareholders are entirely within their legal rights to sue their companies for failing to make decisions which are likely to make the company profitable.

      The court case Dodge v. Ford Motor Company is often cited on Slashdot as the basis of this meme. The basis of the ruling was that Ford wanted to pay most of the money up front for a smelter plant in order to prevent the Dodge brothers from receiving a dividend and using it to create a competing car company. It wasn't that Ford Motor Company didn't make a profit, it was that Henry Ford was purposely diverting the funds to infrastructure expenditures in order to prevent a dividend from being paid to Dodge.

      In fact in AP Smith Mfg. Co. v. Barlow (1953) the court ruled against the shareholder when he sued AP Smith for donating money to Princeton University because:

      In the light of all of the foregoing we have no hesitancy in sustaining the validity of the donation by the plaintiff. There is no suggestion that it was made indiscriminately or to a pet charity of the corporate directors in furtherance of personal rather than corporate ends. On the contrary, it was made to a preeminent institution of higher learning, was modest in amount and well within the limitations imposed by the statutory enactments, and was voluntarily made in the reasonable belief that it would aid the public welfare and advance the interests of the plaintiff as a private corporation and as part of the community in which it operates. We find that it was a lawful exercise of the corporation's implied and incidental powers under common-law principles and that it came within the express authority of the pertinent state legislation.

      In my opinion the only reason that bible.com shareholder lawsuit may have merit was because the company paid their debt with shares of stock and not performing a good faith effort at repaying their debt or making the shares given worth the debt owed. The other compelling reason for the suit was the following (FTA):

      The company's business plan stated "it is the goal of the board of directors of Bible.com to become very, very profitable," according to court documents. This is another important element of the shareholder suit, since the plaintiff must establish that the financial dealings done by the board run counter to the business plan agreed.

      Please let this "corporations must make a profit or be sued" myth die. It all depends on the companies charter.

      --
      These comments are my own and do not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of my employer or colleagues...
    4. Re:As a matter of fact, you can by Americano · · Score: 3, Insightful

      As a company, If the company isn't returning as much profit as possible THAT QUARTER, you aren't fulfilling the obligations to the shareholder.

      Not true, at least not as stated. There's no obligation to provide "maximum profit" in a specific quarter, or in every quarter.

      Corporations can, and often do, take a longer view of profitability, and focus on making wise investments (expenditures!) today that will enhance their profitability later through increased capacity, a better market position, acquisition of a key strategic component, etc.

      Corporations that are solely concerned with the current quarter are foolishly shortsighted - so much so that I think you could probably make a good case for that sort of governance being a breach of fiduciary obligations to shareholders.

    5. Re:As a matter of fact, you can by Americano · · Score: 3, Insightful

      As he wrote it, he's probably quite correct - I think it's probably quite likely that no corporate charter has listed its sole business goal as "making truckloads of cash."

    6. Re:As a matter of fact, you can by Americano · · Score: 2, Insightful

      And when the company you just forced into bankruptcy leaves a bunch of creditors (you included, and probably numerous other companies you've invested in separately) with pennies on the dollar, you don't think this will be a concern?

      Recovering your investment is rarely as simple or black and white as you seem to want it to be - it's often simpler and less disruptive to just sell your shares and take the deduction from the loss to offset some of your capital gains and reduce your tax bill.

  13. I find... by Gattman01 · · Score: 2, Funny

    ...your lack of profit disturbing.

  14. Re:What are "Christian business principles", exact by MaWeiTao · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It's not "liberal" when an individual or corporation decides to do these things. It's considered "liberal" when the government forces individuals to do these things, or extracts money from individuals and corporations in order to do these things themselves.

    Many conservatives participate in a lot of charity, I'm not sure why you consider those two things to be mutually exclusive.

  15. Bible.com? by edremy · · Score: 2, Insightful
    I admit to finding it amusing that it's a .com address. Shouldn't it be a .org at least? You could make the claim for .edu, perhaps. A lot of political candidates would claim it should be .gov, and reading a bunch of the passages I might even accept .mil, but .com?

    What next- bible.biz?

    --
    "Seven Deadly Sins? I thought it was a to-do list!"
    1. Re:Bible.com? by DriedClexler · · Score: 2, Funny

      It should be a .org, and based in Ireland. Bible.org.ie!

      --
      Information theory is life. The rest is just the KL divergence.
  16. Have they not heard the Good News... by forkfail · · Score: 2, Interesting

    ... as brought to you by Supply Side Jesus?

    --
    Check your premises.
  17. Re:What are "Christian business principles", exact by operagost · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Admit it: if they dispensed ketchup into paper cups (how would that go over in the drive-thru, BTW), you would complain that they're cutting down old-growth forests. The fact that you are spewing your pedantic drivel over the internet tells me that you probably make compromises in your own life in order to participate in civilization.

    I haven't seen a styrofoam cup there, but then I've never bought any hot beverage.

    --

    Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
  18. Re:What are "Christian business principles", exact by gravis777 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Obviously, you did not get your BBA / MBA from a strict Christian University, and there are quite a few of those around. They teach that its not a sin to make money, what you focus on is conducting your business in a fair and ethical way, and don't engage in practices that hinder your faith.

    In this summery, however, the problem is that the investor is 1) ignorant of what he is investing in, 2) obviously doesn't share their views, and, probably most importantly, 3) is trying to find a way to make money off of something that places like http://www.biblegateway.com/ http://www.e-sword.net/ and others, give away for free. I mean, let's face it, Bible.com isn't exactly a Microsoft, no matter how badly the investor wants to think it is.

  19. Re:What are "Christian business principles", exact by Americano · · Score: 2, Interesting

    It can be. It really all depends on what else they decide not to take your hard-earned money for donating to.

    Yeah, "it can be" - except it ISN'T. If the laws were completely different, murder *could* be legal, too. But it's not, because we don't live in alternate-reality-bizarro-world where up is down, left is right, and the ASPCA and the ACLU and a host of other non-secular charities aren't eligible for tax-deductible status, but religious organizations are.

    Publication 78 from the IRS is pretty clear on what criteria qualify donations as tax-deductible, and there is even a search utility so you can make sure your organization of choice is a tax-deductible one.

    The list is FAR longer and FAR more comprehensive than "churches", and in fact it absolutely does include the ASPCA, the ACLU, and battered women's shelters of any kind (since one of the qualifying organizations is "A community chest, corporation, trust, fund, or foundation, organized or created in the United States or its possessions, or under the laws of the United States, any state, the District of Columbia or any possession of the United States, and organized and operated exclusively for charitable, religious, educational, scientific, or literary purposes, or for the prevention of cruelty to children or animals." Hard to argue that battered womens' shelter wouldn't qualify as being "operated exclusively for charitable" purposes - I don't think there's a womens' shelter out there that would attempt to monetize their clientele, and if they did, I'd submit that it would be absolutely monstrous and inhuman to grant them any sort of 'favored' status under tax law.

    So yeah, if the government allowed you a deduction only for "charity to religious organizations," then you'd have a point. Since the deduction is allowed for "charity" - full stop, the point is ridiculous.

    The distinction between "donate money and we'll take less tax dollars" and "we'll take your tax dollars and donate money" is fairly small.

    Only semantically. There is worlds of difference in the practice & principles implied by those two statements. One describes government encouraging voluntary charity by private individuals, which implies the free exercise of conscience by citizens. The other describes forced 'charity' by the government, put in place by a group of people who will use their fellow citizens to support goals and organizations they might not agree with or value at all. I'd say that the distinction is pretty clear, and hugely important.