Slashdot Mirror


Vans Drive Themselves Across the World

bossanovalithium writes "Four driverless electric vans successfully ended a 13,000-kilometer test drive from Italy to China which mirrored the journey carried out by Marco Polo in the Middle Ages. The four vans, packed with navigation gear and other computer software, drove themselves across eastern Europe, Russia, Kazakhstan and the Gobi Desert without getting lost. They had been equipped with four solar-powered laser scanners and seven video cameras that work together to detect and avoid obstacles."

29 of 157 comments (clear)

  1. Very cool, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    ... as cool as it sounds, the vans were mostly designed to form a "virtual train" after a human-driven vehicle, so it's not quite autonomous navigation just yet.

    Hey at least something cool out of my home country for once!

    1. Re:Very cool, but... by gorzek · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Liability is one of the things I worry about with any kind of autonomous road vehicle. The first time one of these automated "road trains" shreds through a family's sedan I expect there will be fighting between the trucking company and whoever developed the automated driving system to decide who is financially liable for it.

  2. More Importantly by Ltap · · Score: 4, Funny

    Did they bring back any spices or silk? And we can't trust their tall tales of two-headed men without proof!

    --
    Yet Another Tech Blog
    (but so much more, including game and movie reviews)
    http://yanteb.peasantoid.org
    1. Re:More Importantly by snspdaarf · · Score: 4, Funny

      Oh, great. First, my GPS tries to kill me by directing me down a one-way road the wrong way, now my automated van is going to stop for some Manson wanna-be on the side of the road. No, thanks!

      --
      Why, without your clothes, you're naked, Miss Dudley!
    2. Re:More Importantly by tophermeyer · · Score: 4, Funny

      At one point, a van stopped to pick up hitchhikers.

      I thought you were joking, so I checked TFA. This actually happened. Which is crazy. Horror movies start with stuff like this.

      Robot vans picking up hitchhikers? In what twisted universe does a hitchhiker: 1) flag down a van 2) discover that it is driven by nobody and 3a) trust the van's occupants that they are "researchers" 3b) trust that "it's totally cool, nobody's going to steal your organs".

    3. Re:More Importantly by CastrTroy · · Score: 2, Interesting

      This is exactly the problem with self driving vehicles. Even if they are 10000 times safer than having human drivers, they will still not be used by the general public, because any kind of crash will be a huge lawsuit against the company. With human drivers, you can always blame the problem on human error. However, with computerized drivers, it's now the manufacturer who is at fault for every single problem. They can't even get all the systems they have (Think Toyota) working properly. Making cars that drive themselves is going to be an even bigger problem.

      --

      Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
    4. Re:More Importantly by slick7 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I imagine one of these would be less effective at explosives delivery than a remote controlled vehicle would be.

      Autonomous vs. remotely operated is different how?

      --
      The mind conceives, the body achieves, the spirit manifests.
  3. Frist Thumbs-up! by pinkushun · · Score: 2, Insightful

    At one point, a van stopped to pick up hitchhikers.

  4. Sponsor by flyingkillerrobots · · Score: 5, Informative

    For those of you who want to know who made the vans, it was sponsored by the European Research Council. The lead researcher works at the University of Parma, Italy. Why, oh why do the summaries lack useful information? Yes, I am new here.

    --
    "It is a good thing for an uneducated man to read books of quotations..." -Winston Churchill
  5. Not more "safety features" please by inigopete · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Rather than replacing drivers it is hoped that the technology will be used to study ways to complement drivers' abilities

    That's become the problem with ABS, traction control, airbags and many other safety features: make drivers feel like they're safer, they will drive more like idiots. I'd far rather this system was developed to replace drivers; granted it will take more work to make it completely reliable, but it would mean fewer people thinking that because they've got the latest safety systems in their car they don't have to pay as much attention to their driving.

    1. Re:Not more "safety features" please by Ltap · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The problem is that most people would rather trust a human in life-or-death situations, despite the fact that humans would be hampered by slow decision-making and reflexes.

      --
      Yet Another Tech Blog
      (but so much more, including game and movie reviews)
      http://yanteb.peasantoid.org
    2. Re:Not more "safety features" please by somersault · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Who do you know that drives more like an idiot because their car has safety features? I drove like an idiot even when my car didn't have ABS, and these days even though all cars I drive have ABS, I drive like less of an idiot.

      Traction control is no use for driving like an idiot. I switch it off when I want to have some fun.

      --
      which is totally what she said
    3. Re:Not more "safety features" please by ElectricTurtle · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Humans might make slower decisions, but they have a much broader and more integrated matrix of perceptions and conceptions to draw from. Until AIs are strong enough to understand environments intelligently and intuitively as a whole rather than programmed to respond to a few set objects in a few set ways, a human decision and action will be necessarily more complete even if it is slower.

      --
      I support the Slashcott and will not be reading or commenting from 2/10/14 to 2/17/14. Beta is steaming pile of dog shit
    4. Re:Not more "safety features" please by jeffmeden · · Score: 4, Insightful

      That's become the problem with ABS, traction control, airbags and many other safety features: make drivers feel like they're safer, they will drive more like idiots.

      Never mind the fact that traffic deaths (in the US at least) have been decreased INCREDIBLY with the aforementioned technologies. Some do choose to drive like increasingly effective idiots, but not nearly enough to outweigh the safety benefits. I will go with the safety technology versus the notion that the sword of Damocles is effective at preventing accidents, thank you very much.

    5. Re:Not more "safety features" please by Eevee · · Score: 3, Informative
      You don't ride taxicabs in Munich

      Subsequent analysis of the rating scales showed that drivers of cabs with ABS made sharper turns in curves, were less accurate in their lane-holding behaviour, proceeded at a shorter forward sight distance, made more poorly adjusted merging manoeuvres and created more "traffic conflicts". This is a technical term for a situation in which one or more traffic participants have to take swift action to avoid a collision with another road user.[3] Finally, as compared with the non-ABS cabs, the ABS cabs were driven faster at one of the four measuring points along the route. All these differences were significant.

    6. Re:Not more "safety features" please by shentino · · Score: 2, Insightful

      A human still has to program the sucker.

      And I would much rather have a human I could watch and monitor than an AI concealed in an opaque chip that I would just have to trust implicitly.

      I barely trust people as it is even when I can watch them.

    7. Re:Not more "safety features" please by balbus000 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I don't think we'll ever have completely automated cars. Even if they reduced accidents by 80%.

      People will see a big difference between getting in an accident by human error or by a malfunctioning computer.

      The fact that it's completely up to the computer will make it feel like playing a slot machine. Sure there are times when human error by someone else is completely out of your control, but I think people will perceive it differently.

    8. Re:Not more "safety features" please by ElectricTurtle · · Score: 2, Interesting

      "Staggering"? Hyperbole. In the first place rates vary culturally. Iceland has 3.8 fatalities/year per 100000 people, less than a quarter of the rate of the US at 12.3, which in turn is about a quarter of the rate of the worst country for fatal car accidents: Eritrea at 48.4. Even that highest rate is still only 0.0484%/year, and at the risk of sounding cavalier about human life, I wouldn't call that staggering.

      Also your assertion that the AI problem would not require a groundbreaking solution is founded on what knowledge? I think you vastly underestimate the problem. Example scenario: a vehicle is traveling on a rural road in the winter around a tight, blind turn on a mountain road. Suddenly, another vehicle appears heading toward the first in the middle of the road. Does the AI in the first vehicle know it's winter and black ice may interfere with braking? Does the AI know that turning out of the other vehicle's path toward the mountainside may result in the vehicle flipping? Does the AI know that if it turns away from the mountain to avoid the other vehicle that it could cause it to plummet to its doom?

      Let's back this off a bit, instead of a mountain, it's a hilly region and the same scenario, turning toward the hill would cause the same risk of flipping, but turning away would probably be rough but survivable. The AI turns away, but the hill is too steep and icy to brake effectively, does it know how to steer under such conditions? Does it know where to steer? Let's say there's a body of water down there, does it recognize that as a hazard to avoid? What if the water is frozen? Does that appear as a solid surface to the AI? What about at night? On and on and on.

      Human intuition and integration is so powerful we don't think about most of these things consciously. We have the capacity to act with so many key factors understood naturally and relationally. AI will get there, that's inevitable, but it will be decades more before that happens, and when it does it will be "groundbreaking".

      --
      I support the Slashcott and will not be reading or commenting from 2/10/14 to 2/17/14. Beta is steaming pile of dog shit
    9. Re:Not more "safety features" please by robot256 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      True. But how many humans could actually do that when pressed? Not all of them, that's for sure. Yet they are still allowed to drive as much as they want, since they are willing to take the risk or avoid the situation. The same could be true of an AI. It could simply refuse to drive on what it knew to be prohibitively dangerous icy mountain passes. Or your perfectly cognizant human would recognize the situation and take over from the AI, which prior to this had done a perfect job of avoiding walls, cliffs, and skidding.

      Sure, there is infinite room for improvement of AI, but that is hardly a reason to oppose its adoption as long as we understand its limitations.

  6. Autonomous vehicles by ledow · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The problem with autonomous vehicles is not what they can do successfully, it's what happens when they fail.

    If I don't press my brakes in time to prevent an accident, I risk going to jail for dangerous / careless driving.
    If the autonomous van doesn't... well... what? We can take the human "driver" off the road, sure, but that's not fixed the problem. So the second one person has an accident in an autonomous vehicle, you're looking at major liability and lawsuits directed towards the car manufacturer - whether or not it was their fault and whether or not a human driver could have prevented the accident in *any* car. That manufacturer now has to take responsibility for that car versus every idiot on the road, every pedestrian that runs out and everything that can confuse one of its sensors.

    Autonomous driving *is* possible and quite easy - but we need autonomous roads to make it work, with nobody but the autonomous vehicles on it. Nobody, nowhere has actually built a real-life one of those on a real road that people would want to use because you have to use their vehicles to do it and you have to (indirectly) pay for that vehicle, that road, and any mistakes those vehicles make. And those roads don't and won't exist for decades if at all - or, more accurately, it's called the rail network. Automated rail networks are commonplace - London has the Dockland's Light Railway that has no drivers.

    If you're going to have to build a road that only automated cars can use, and make some cars to use that road, you've effectively built a railway, or else you're putting billions of pounds of effort into avoiding obstacles and keeping to a strict lane when you could just make the thing run along a rail.

    Why is there no call for an automated rail network? You can make it as fast as the super-express trains, it's very safe in comparison to any road, on established technology, you know it's not going to veer off the road, you can pack thousands of trains onto the rails if you do it right and take thousands of passengers in each etc. But instead, people honestly think that it's more sensible to put an automated system of even the best technology on an open road with other idiots and do this on a one-person, one-car basis (hence millions of units and billions of pounds) with complete freedom over how it moves the car, among other traffic that will stop it ever doing anything a human couldn't do? It's ridiculous.

    Stop wasting your time and build a personalised rail network when I can get into a "pod" or something, enter my destination and it would take me there on good, solid, metal rails and a bit of signalling. And I don't have to worry that it thinks the man walking along the street with a cardboard cutout is actually a small child running in front of the car, or that it doesn't spot a police tape which has been strung across the road to close it because of a pedestrian parade further up the street.

    An automated car has to have a human in it. It's the best call ever made on the introduction of a new technology so far. An automated car needs exclusive automated roads to every destination in order to work anywhere near effectively under autonomous control - that's called a railway and any more "transportation routes" being built just for automated cars is a fantasy world in a modern city. Automated cars have been shown to crash WHEN DEMONSTRATING how they were uncrashable. An automated railway already exists and works perfectly and has an excellent safety record. Use it.

    1. Re:Autonomous vehicles by caluml · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Stop wasting your time and build a personalised rail network when I can get into a "pod" or something, enter my destination and it would take me there on good, solid, metal rails and a bit of signalling.

      Indeed. A packet-switched transport system. Broadcast your destination via Bluetooth, "routers" can receive that and direct you the best way. The pods would be unpowered, but pushed/blown along - possibly compressed air?
      If you had a system of tubes under the ground, and some sort of decent bearings, you could make it work. You could also have large "trunk"/"backbone" roads, which smaller roads joined. Basically, model it on the Internet. But without the packet loss, or routing loops. Or collisions.

    2. Re:Autonomous vehicles by RivenAleem · · Score: 2, Funny

      And keep the porn. There should be a mechanism whereby I can get off whenever I desire.

    3. Re:Autonomous vehicles by Kjella · · Score: 2, Insightful

      A car needs a semi-drivable asphalt / gravel / dirt road to drive on. There's endless miles of them that it wuold cost trillions to replace and billions to maintain per year. The vast, vast majority of people want a drive that takes them to the doorstep and ends in their driveway, not some railway station far off from which you need to carry all your belongings and goods. Most of those that can comfortably do without already take the bus / tram / metro / railway.

      And even if you happened to be on the network, it still wouldn't replace the car unless all yours friends and family and shops and everything else you'd like to visit was on the network too. I don't have a car and as a result I need to have a taxi budget, if I needed it regularly I would without a doubt buy a car and an automated car system like you describe would be no substitute at all, exactly because all the odd places wouldn't be covered.

      An automated driving system would have a huge advantage in that we could have it record all the video and sensor input to a black box that'd survive the crash meaning no more word against word. I would think as all the crap drivers got exposed through video recordings, the death and injury tolls and the insurance costs started dropping people would accept that it is not perfect but substantially better and can be continously improved unlike the average driver who is pretty much the way it is. If the US wants to be all legally retarded then it'll happen in Europe or some other area and eventually the US would get dragged along.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    4. Re:Autonomous vehicles by rockNme2349 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      So the second one person has an accident in an autonomous vehicle, you're looking at major liability and lawsuits directed towards the car manufacturer - whether or not it was their fault and whether or not a human driver could have prevented the accident in *any* car. That manufacturer now has to take responsibility for that car versus every idiot on the road, every pedestrian that runs out and everything that can confuse one of its sensors.

      I've thought about this problem for a while, and here is my guess how it will proceed. When cars started being made with cruise control, the responsibility in an accident still belonged to the driver. There are cars being built today which automatically apply brakes when they sense an oncoming collision, but in the event of a malfunction or accident, the human driver is ultimately held responsible.

      I don't believe anyone is going to drop an autonomous car into the market, but instead it will simply be more and more iterations of the computer taking control. The human driver will always have a manual override though, and will be responsible for the accidents, simply because that was the status quo. My guess is by the time we do get autonomous cars, people probably won't be paying attention to the road since their cars are driving themselves fine anyway, but they will have signed a disclaimer claiming responsibility anyway. I do think there will be uproars when accidents do occur, like we have seen with the Toyota problem, but not for a long while after we have become comfortable with autonomous vehicles will any law change regarding responsibility.

      --
      Sewage Treatment Facilities - "Our duty is clear."
    5. Re:Autonomous vehicles by sznupi · · Score: 2, Insightful

      As was the case with elevators for a long time...even when not strictly needed.

      --
      One that hath name thou can not otter
  7. Why all-electric vehicles aren't there yet by Sonny+Yatsen · · Score: 2, Informative

    This last line caught my eye.

    The vehicles ran at maximum speeds of 60 kilometres per hour and had to be recharged for eight hours after every two to three hours of driving.

    I think Marco Polo probably made better time with camels. Still an impressive feat, though.

    --
    My postings are informational and does not constitute legal advice. Act on it at your risk.
    1. Re:Why all-electric vehicles aren't there yet by cindyann · · Score: 5, Informative

      answers.com says it took Polo four years to get to China -- even with getting stuck in Moscow traffic the vans win.

  8. Re:really... by RivenAleem · · Score: 2, Funny

    Does this mean there was always a woman on standby to ask for directions?

  9. I wish they followed someone else's path.. by JargonScott · · Score: 2, Funny

    Every time I see the name Marco Polo I'm instantly 12 again, screaming MARCO!!!! while at the city pool. All my "friends" left me and went to the snack bar.

    --
    Nuke Gay Whales for Jesus.