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Could CA Violent Game Law Lead To an Industry Exodus?

donniebaseball23 writes "Oral arguments for the California games law are set to begin on November 2. It's a hugely important court case for the industry, and if the Supreme Court sides with the legislators it could lead to an exodus of talent from the games business, says one attorney. 'Certainly less games would be produced and there would be a corresponding job loss,' said Patrick Sweeney, who leads the Video Game practice at Reed Smith LLP. 'But I expect the impact will likely be significantly deeper. I believe the independent development community would be severely impacted. Innovation, both from a creative and technological aspect, would also be stifled. The companies, brands and individuals that we should be embracing as the visionaries of this creative and collaborative industry will migrate their talents to a more expressive medium.' Meanwhile, Dr. Cheryl K. Olson, author of Grand Theft Childhood, notes that even if California gets its way, it could backfire."

22 of 142 comments (clear)

  1. No by geekoid · · Score: 5, Insightful

    it would not cause an exodus. If putting age restriction and fines for violating them hurt industry, there would be no porn made in CA.

    --
    The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    1. Re:No by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      When the Hayes censorship code was adopted in by the motion picture industry in 1930 it arguably led to an in increase in movie artistic creativity. Paradoxically art often thrives in repressive environments. I'm bored with hearing special interests warn of the the end of civilization as we know it (or at least the game industry). Where there is money to be made people will find a way.

    2. Re:No by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Ugh. /. raped my comment.

      I disagree with you. "Vanilla" sex may not be taboo anymore, but the sexual urges of pubescent children are still stigmatized beyond recognition.

      If we encouraged children to explore and understand their sexuality (SAFELY, with condoms, with consenting people of similar age) instead of ostracizing them for expressing their sexuality, or telling them to suppress their urges, I would surmise that those children would be mostly disinterested in those kinds of materials.

      To put it shortly, I think that if the sexual capacity of a human body is fully formed, it's absurd to tell that human it can't to what it's made to do.

    3. Re:No by hedwards · · Score: 2, Interesting

      A measure like that would cost jobs. That sort of a ban would reduce the copies sold if by only the people who are no longer able to buy it for themselves. I doubt that it's a significant enough number to make much of a difference though.

    4. Re:No by ScrewMaster · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Assuming they can get a job in the first place. When I was that age there were paper routes available and other jobs. These days it's getting quite challenging for kids to get work, as a lot of those jobs are being taken over by adults or eliminated due to concerns about child welfare.

      There are other reasons. I was watching a prime-time news program last year which was decrying the lack of such "transition jobs" available for our youth, and how that was seriously impacting their ability to enter the workforce as adults. Now, this particular program placed the blame for this entirely at the feet of the elderly. I was listening to the voiceover solemnly declare that our senior citizens were not gracefully accepting their retirement (as if some 80-year-old is working retail because he or she wants to be) and were injuring the nation's young people with their greediness, and thinking "what kind of a crock is this?"

      The final scene showed a white-haired old woman working the register at a Macdonald's, the voice carrying on about how in the past an up-and-coming young American would have filled this job, on his way to fame and glory. I almost fell out of my chair when I noticed the half-dozen Mexicans slaving busily away in the background.

      If the producers did that on purpose, it was brilliant. If not, they were just being assholes. Some of the "adults" you speak of who are taking menial jobs from children are doing so because for the past half century or more, our leaders have looted our treasury, pillaged our economy, broken every promise they, and left millions of elderly in the unenviable position of having to work until they die. Others are working people who spent much of their lives doing real work, but (for the reasons outlined above) have found themselves having to take any job they can find just to feed themselves and their families.

      Yes, Mr. President(s), and members of that august committee known as "Congress", you did this. I hope there is a God, because that means there's probably a Satan around here somewhere, and I think most you know where you'll be going.

      --
      The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
  2. Uhhhh, why? by Sycraft-fu · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Unless I badly misunderstand, the law bans sales of games to people under 18. So the only impact here is on stores that sell the games, not on developers. Developers are free to make whatever they like, it is the stores that have to restrict who can buy it. They can still sell anything, they just can't sell it to anyone. Same as tobacco or alcohol.

    The only way it would cause an exodus is if game sales plummeted and that would only happen if large amounts of sales of M rated games were being made to people under 18.

    I don't buy that for a second. For one, most retailers already ID for games (Target IDs me and I'm 30 and shop there all the time). Also, kids don't tend to have a ton of money to spend. There's a reason there have been more adult targeted games: Adults have more to spend. When I was 14 I had to beg games out of my parents a couple times a year. Now I buy them as I please. Finally parents will just buy the shit anyhow, and that's still legal. Rare is it you hear about the kid who bought their own violent game, the parents bought it for them.

    So unless I really misunderstand this, and if so please show me a link to the reality, I can't see it mattering much to the VG industry, it'll just ber a stupid burden on the retailers.

    1. Re:Uhhhh, why? by geekoid · · Score: 2, Informative

      actually, kids have a lot more control over the purse strings then people used to think. This is why so many toys for ads are geared at children.

      I know a lot of 10-15 year olds that have 50 or more dollar lying around.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    2. Re:Uhhhh, why? by geekoid · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It's because the submitter hates video game sales restrictions and doesn't mind twisting the truth to push his agenda.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    3. Re:Uhhhh, why? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      As someone from Germany (we have some of the strictest regulators here concerning violence in games) I can tell you, it WILL affect you as an adult. These for the children laws inevitably affect adults too.

      You won't be able to buy 18+ games without jumping through a lot of hoops. Offline stores don't stock them and online stores have to comply with absurd age-checking requirements that cause the likes of eBay to ban anything 18+ outright.

      On top of that developers pre-censor their games in fears of getting an 18+ rating. Hell even 18+ games in Germany are censored compared to international versions because our fucked up youth protection laws affect material solely targeted at adults.

      As for the exodus, many companies (video game review sites, movie and game mail orders, etc.) had to move to neighbouring countries like Austria because they could not afford the asinine age-checking requirements.

      Things will change for you, too.

    4. Re:Uhhhh, why? by Rogerborg · · Score: 2, Funny

      All these teens and pre-teens you give many dollah to... you might want to keep quiet about that.

      --
      If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
    5. Re:Uhhhh, why? by vell0cet · · Score: 2, Informative

      Many states have tried to pass laws that restrict the sale of games to minors. So if the California law is upheld, all the other states will follow suit and craft laws based on the California one.

      In reference to why people would leave the industry... It's not because they wouldn't want to make games, it's because the ability to express creativity would become limited. Any depiction of violence could potentially cause your game to be restricted by the law and not get carried by any of the large retailers (not being in Walmart destroys any sales potential of your game). Thus publishers will always "play it safe" to protect their investment.

      In regards to stifling creativity. Here's a comparison - When was the last time you saw any porn that had real artistic merit? That really told a great story or carried political, cultural themes? Stanley Kubrick, one of the greatest directors to ever live, had his last movie Eyes Wide Shut significantly censored so as not to be labeled porn so that it could be released in theaters in the US. If this law were passed, you'd only have one type of violent game... brutally graphic and heinous. Just as we pretty much only have one type of movie/magazine/etc that contains sex... porn.

  3. Who cares by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Physical game sales are on their way out the door anyway. Or they are with PC games that is... next-generation consoles will probably see the same displacement.

  4. Welcome to Nevada! by PatPending · · Score: 2, Insightful

    California's neighboring state, Nevada, would welcome these businesses because it would diversify its economy which is predominately based on alcohol, tobacco, gambling, and sex.

    Plus, Nevada has no corporate income tax nor personal income tax.

    --
    What one fool can do, another can. (Ancient Simian Proverb)
    1. Re:Welcome to Nevada! by geekoid · · Score: 2, Funny

      but it is Ugly, has poor services, and no class.

      Of course, if you like brown it's the place to be.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
  5. Re:Tip: by im_thatoneguy · · Score: 2, Informative

    "You must be over 18 to buy an M rated game."

  6. Re:Tip: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

    "You must be over 18 to buy a violent game

    FTFY. This law doesn't recognize ESRB ratings. The standards for this law are much lower.

  7. Re:No. by mrsteveman1 · · Score: 2, Funny

    Your comparison doesn't make much sense. Try something with a car instead.

  8. Re:Tip: by demonbug · · Score: 4, Insightful

    There is no law, federal or state, that prohibits theaters from showing R (or higher) rated movies to minors. It is all voluntary, from the ratings issued by the MPAA to the individual theaters enforcing those ratings. The fact that lots of people do think it is actually illegal for minors to see these movies just shows that there is really no reason for the gaming law - the film version was struck down in 1965 (according to wikipedia) but the "voluntary" system still seems pretty effective (though I do seem to recall managing to get into numerous R-rated movies before I was 18).

  9. They'll just change the games by billsayswow · · Score: 3, Interesting

    All military shooters will take place in a parallel universe where the world's governments realize that while war is a means to an end, the cost of life is too great to be a viable option. All firearms were discarded, used only for sport now, and instead all guns are paintball guns. The UN sends judges to determine when soldiers have taken enough hits to be considered unfit to continue. In the end, the soldiers meet in the middle of the battlefield, shake hands, and pull out wet sponges to clean paint off the opposing teams's uniform and kit. In this world, in war, no matter which side is victorious, everyone is a winner.

  10. Re:No. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    That's a requirement which does not exist. Theaters card voluntarily, much like every major game retailer cards voluntarily.

  11. Re:No. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    The similar requirement that theaters card teenagers for R-rated movies...

    ...doesn't exist. Please do not perpetuate myths.

  12. Re:Tip: by LrdDimwit · · Score: 2, Insightful

    How about the fact that it is not illegal to let a minor into an R-rated movie? Many people think it is, but in fact it is not. If a movie theatre lets someone under 17 into an R-rated movie, nobody is fined or imprisoned. Someone might get fired, but getting fired is a far cry from being subject to prosecution. Instead, the theatre chains all have agreed to voluntarily impose policies enforcing the ratings. Note that exactly the same is true of all the major game retailer - and modern game consoles come with parental controls, which when enabled won't allow games of certain ratings to be played.

    This law would create an entirely new kind of legal trouble just for violent video games that doesn't exist for any other medium. In my book, that's reason enough to oppose it.