Slashdot Mirror

← Back to Stories (view on slashdot.org)

Fedora 14 Released and Reviewed — Advanced, and Not For Wimps

Posted by Soulskill on from the new-and-shiny dept.

Several readers have sent word that Fedora 14, codenamed Laughlin, has been released. A brief listing of the major changes has been posted, and the download is available at the Fedora project's site. Reader jfruhlinger points out a quick review of the new version, saying, "Remember the days when being a Linux user was like being part of a select priesthood — arcane knowledge needed, but great rewards? Steven Vaughan-Nichols has tested out Fedora 14, and that was how it went. No Ubuntu-style handholding, but some powerful new features."

51 of 200 comments (clear)

  1. In Some Ways It Still Is by eldavojohn · · Score: 5, Funny

    Remember the days when being a Linux user was like being part of a select priesthood ...

    Oh, it still is like that in some respects.

    --
    My work here is dung.
    1. Re:In Some Ways It Still Is by gstoddart · · Score: 5, Funny

      "Remember the days when being a Linux user was like being part of a select priesthood ..."

      Oh, it still is like that in some respects [wikipedia.org].

      Dude, have you been celibate all this time?

      They sent out a memo years ago saying geeks were allowed to get laid. Since at least Y2K as I recall we're been encouraged to go forth and get busy (I think that was the exact wording).

      Man, you need to check your mail-slot more often. :-P

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    2. Re:In Some Ways It Still Is by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      Man, you need to check in to a female-slot more often. :-P

      There, fixed that for you.

    3. Re:In Some Ways It Still Is by H0p313ss · · Score: 4, Funny

      "Remember the days when being a Linux user was like being part of a select priesthood ..."

      Oh, it still is like that in some respects [wikipedia.org].

      Dude, have you been celibate all this time?

      They sent out a memo years ago saying geeks were allowed to get laid. Since at least Y2K as I recall we're been encouraged to go forth and get busy (I think that was the exact wording).

      Man, you need to check your mail-slot more often. :-P

      Those who have stayed true to the faith will recognize this as false. Cast out gstoddart as he is unclean and shall surely lead us unto damnation!

      Pray with me brothers! Pray that we may keep our hand built machines clean from this filth of lust and commercial software!

      Our Stallman, that art in glibc, hallowed be thy code...

      --
      XML is a known as a key material required to create SMD: Software of Mass Destruction
    4. Re:In Some Ways It Still Is by gstoddart · · Score: 5, Funny

      Our Stallman, that art in glibc, hallowed be thy code...

      Speaking of unclean and sure to lead us to damnation. ;-)

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    5. Re:In Some Ways It Still Is by gstoddart · · Score: 4, Insightful

      ... We have mail slots?

      Why couldn't they just send an email...

      Check your spam folder. I think it was titled "Hot Russian Girls Await You".

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    6. Re:In Some Ways It Still Is by tsalmark · · Score: 2

      O where for art mine mod points when they are dost needed most.

    7. Re:In Some Ways It Still Is by morgauxo · · Score: 2

      Celibate huh... Well we know what filth covers things built with your hands then...

    8. Re:In Some Ways It Still Is by syousef · · Score: 4, Funny

      Our Stallman, that art in glibc, hallowed be thy code...

      Speaking of unclean and sure to lead us to damnation. ;-)

      Give us this day our daily garlic pizza, and deliver us from showering, amen.

      --
      These posts express my own personal views, not those of my employer
  2. KDE by stoolpigeon · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I've always used KDE with RedHat/Fedora. He needs more friends that run Fedora.

    --
    It's hard to believe that's how Micronians are made. Why don't we see it right now by having you both kiss one another?
    1. Re:KDE by Nimloth · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Same here. KDE and XFCE on Fedora. No Gnome.

    2. Re:KDE by BassMan449 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I thought the exact same thing. I've first used Fedora Core since 3 and almost immediately switched from GNOME to KDE. Especially now I would definitely take KDE 4.2+ over any version of GNOME.

    3. Re:KDE by dAzED1 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I started as a slackware guy, back in...well, I won't date myself. Then I built everything myself, in a linux-from-scratch style way. Then I moved to Gentoo for a while. Then, after I realized I wanted to get work done, stop farking around, and accept that I wasn't needing to prove something to someone (not by building my own "distro" at least) I moved to Fedora.

      Somewhere along the way, I went with XFCE. I was one of those people who had used Gnome because it was so lightweight compared to CDE. I was saddened by how ugly it got. I don't want my computer making decisions for me, on questions I never asked. All this is my long-winded, I've-been-drinking, way of saying that XFCE is where it's at if you want something out of the box that doesn't suck but still works.

    4. Re:KDE by dudpixel · · Score: 2, Interesting

      got proof? kubuntu is working just fine for me. openSUSE didn't fair so well though which is odd because it is often said to be "the" kde distro.

      As far as I know fedora dont really make any changes to kde so you get a vanilla kde (the best sort).

      Kubuntu shares a similar view, however they add their own userspace apps to help with certain tasks. I was never a (k)ubuntu fan but I cant argue with a system that "just works".

      --
      This seemed like a reasonable sig at the time.
    5. Re:KDE by tokul · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I've always used KDE with RedHat/Fedora. He needs more friends that run Fedora.

      Friends don't let friends use KDE4 plasmoid monstrosity.

  3. Wanker by chill · · Score: 5, Informative

    Reading the comments to that blog shows he reviewed a Beta, not the release. Every single bug he said he ran into had been fixed before the release.

    --
    Learning HOW to think is more important than learning WHAT to think.
    1. Re:Wanker by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Yeah, I saw that too. And then he ends the review with "they need more quality assurance". Apparently someone doesn't know what the term "beta" means.

    2. Re:Wanker by ak3ldama · · Score: 5, Informative

      The only indication that it is beta is that he released his review before Fedora 14 was actually released! First paragraph:

      That's not to say that the newest version of Fedora, Fedora 14 Laughlin, is hard to use. It's not. But, if you need a lot of handholding as you explore Linux, I think you'll be better off with Ubuntu.

      Though later he says:

      There is a fix on the way for this problem, but it still wasn't in the late beta software I was trying out.

      The tags at the top do not mention it as beta, nor does the title. That is far from being genuine... I think this article is pure trash personally. I saw it yesterday in the /. firehose where it belonged. I can not believe it made the front page. Running around installing the latest linux distro (pre-release at that!) in a virtual machine is not news worthy and makes for junk journalism.

      --
      "but money is the God of Algiers & Mahomet their prophet." - Rich. O'Bryen June 8th 1786
    3. Re:Wanker by HeckRuler · · Score: 3, Informative

      Well ok, but is the gist still correct? Is Fedora 14 for the elite uber-admins? While I'd like to be the sort of person who knows his box back and forth, I'd also like to just plug in [wireless-card/mic/spleunky/starcraft2/maptool/softwareRaid/Audacity/whatnot] and simply have it work. Those don't exactly go hand in hand. You know when you're on a date and you go to play a movie, but the sound isn't working and you try to fix it and she walks off around the point you start opening man pages?
      Yeah, I've been there and I don't particularly want to go back.

    4. Re:Wanker by gstoddart · · Score: 5, Funny

      Apparently someone doesn't know what the term "beta" means.

      I'll tell you what it means:

      Beta (noun): Greek letter used to denote the last build of software before management decides to ship the product anyway.

      You've obviously never shipped code. ;-)

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    5. Re:Wanker by micheas · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Apparently someone doesn't know what the term "beta" means.

      Very few people do anymore, what with Google releasing all of their products with the "Beta" label and never, ever releasing a production version of anything ;)

      IIRC, Google's definition of beta is "not showing a profit"

      --
      Work bio at MMWD
    6. Re:Wanker by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Beta (noun): Greek letter used to denote the last build of software before management decides to ship the product anyway.

      Hm. I always thought that's called a "prototype". ~

    7. Re:Wanker by AdamWill · · Score: 3, Informative

      SJVN: Look at the bug reports I linked to: they have confirmations from multiple reporters that the bugs are fixed. I've got two F14 systems and a couple of VMs here, I can run Brasero on any of them and it works fine, for instance. The only bug that you mentioned that isn't fixed, exactly, is the USB 3.0 problem: USB 3.0 support was actually disabled on purpose because if we turn it on it breaks suspend/resume, and that hasn't changed for final (contrary to what I wrote in my comment). We did, however, document workarounds on the Common Bugs page - https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Common_F14_bugs#usb_3.0 .

      You never replied to my comment that 'release candidate' is a tricky concept when it comes to Fedora, because we have 'release candidates' of the Alpha and the Beta as well as 'release candidates' of the final release. I also asked if you could post the filename and sha256sum of the images you tested so I could confirm exactly what it is you were testing, but you didn't reply to that, either.

      It's possible that you really are testing the final release and you're seeing bugs that look exactly the same as bugs that other people saw in the Beta and subsequently confirmed were fixed but are in fact *different* bugs, I guess, but it seems unlikely, and there's no way to tell for sure unless you let us know exactly what images you tested.

  4. hmmmm by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    "Remember the days when being a Linux user was like being part of a select priesthood"

    Yeah, i do, and that's why linux is having a hard time converting people because most of the community is desperately trying to keep it that way. And before you call me a windows fanboy, I run it all, win7, mac, several flavors of linux.

    1. Re:hmmmm by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

      You must be new here, Windows fanboy

    2. Re:hmmmm by Sponge+Bath · · Score: 4, Funny

      I run it all, win7, mac, several flavors of linux.

      Watch it polytheist, the Solders of the One will mod bomb you.

    3. Re:hmmmm by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      I don't know if you misspelled "Soldiers", but "Solders" is actually way funnier. Well done.

    4. Re:hmmmm by Jimmy+King · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The really great thing about these "dumbed down" Linux distros is that you still have the option to go tweak stuff as you need, build packages from source with specific options, etc. The "dumbing down" of Linux hasn't removed the flexibility, it's just made it so that more of it "just works" so that you can spend your time tweaking the stuff that truly needs it and actually using your machine.

    5. Re:hmmmm by walshy007 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Yeah, anyone who is upset at how "dumbed down" something like Ubuntu is, actually is showing how dumb they are..

      Like how due to pressure from ubuntu users xorg disabled the ZAP functionality (ctrl-alt-backspace) by default? Then when the rare occasion where it was needed happened it was useless.

      Nobody gives two hoots if they make it easier until by trying to cater to some noob thing they make it harder for the people who actually know what they are doing.

  5. Ignore link Steven Vaughan reviewed the BETA!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

    He reviewed the Beta version of F14!!! for crying out loud!!! Really thought that Slashdot was more responsible than this.

  6. Review was BS by chrisj_0 · · Score: 3, Informative

    he reviewed the Beta and all the problems he listed are fixed. Read the comments at the end of TFA.

  7. Windows Logo on New Fedoraproject.org Site by Sponge+Bath · · Score: 2, Informative

    The new fedoraproject.org site uses 4 icons (freedom, friends, features, first) in the same colors as the Windows logo that can be pieced together like the Windows icon. Kind of odd.

    1. Re:Windows Logo on New Fedoraproject.org Site by mattdm · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Okay, fine -- I'll post to undo the moderation.

      It's four colors, but they're four completely different colors in completely different shapes. The MS Windows logo has red-orange, green, blue, and yellow, in different window-pane-like configurations depending on version. (In older versions, the orange was more red, and the blue and green were darker -- clearly the four perceptual primary colors.)

      The Fedora glyphs are a navy blue, a magenta-tinged pink, definitely orange, and bright green. They're decidedly off-primary, and not in the same way that the Windows 7 and other recent MS logos are.

      If you think I'm being pedantic, look at them actually side-by-side and you'll see that the comparison is ridiculous.

      Surprisingly, Microsoft doesn't actually own the concept of using four colors for a logo. It reminds me of this silliness. So yeah, I thought you were trolling. And I'll give you a half apology, because even if you weren't trolling, it's pretty silly.

  8. The bad old days by MonsterTrimble · · Score: 2, Interesting

    "Remember the days when being a Linux user was like being part of a select priesthood — arcane knowledge needed, but great rewards? Steven Vaughan-Nichols has tested out Fedora 14, and that was how it went. No Ubuntu-style handholding, but some powerful new features."

    Thankfully, I missed those days (in general) until I started playing with LXDE & E17. In fact, the main reason I use a ubuntu derivative now over Fedora is that it worked with a minimum of fuss. As a newbie, I was HAPPY for the handholding.

    --
    I call it 'The Aristocrats'
    1. Re:The bad old days by gstoddart · · Score: 4, Interesting

      a thousand times, ditto! i love linux, but never in a million years do i want to compile a kernel. trust me, there are a lot of people out there who feel exactly the same way.

      Well, it's like changing a tire, writing your own interrupt handlers, or hand-optimizing memory usage.

      It's something everybody should do at least once in their life so they understand the process. And, once you've done it, you will never want to do it again. Those who sidestep the process never really understand and live in fear of it.

      Those who understand the process know what it's all about, and just mostly call AAA, install Ubuntu, or add more memory thereafter -- secure in the knowledge that if they really had to, they could probably muddle their way through it. But, in reality, it's a task best left for someone else and is mostly a waste of time. ;-)

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    2. Re:The bad old days by jimicus · · Score: 4, Interesting

      IME, there are three sorts of Linux users.

      The Newbie - uses Ubuntu or something similar - doesn't want to compile anything, just wants something other than Windows with the minimum extra effort.

      If you go back in time to before Ubuntu existed, this sort of person was very rare and often graduated to "enthusiast" level quite quickly.

      The Enthusiast - uses the unstable, beta stream of a well-known distribution or Gentoo, happy to compile whatever's necessary and will put up with a hell of a lot. For most outsiders, watching these people is like seeing someone in an abusive relationship. You know it doesn't have to be like that, you know they're setting themselves up for punishment but the only person who can pull them out of it is themselves.

      The Professional - uses Debian, CentOS or RHEL. Has no intention of wasting time compiling stuff, and wants to be able to get as many packages as possible without any compiling. Is not afraid of compiling if strictly necessary. May have a need to run commercial package(s) which are only supported on these distributions. Usually reached this point having come from some other Unix or bubbled up from the Enthusiast.

    3. Re:The bad old days by martas · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Hm, it seems I don't fit your taxonomy. I've used Ubuntu for several years now as my primary OS, and, having been a CS student for some of that time, I don't consider myself a newbie; I've gotten my hands dirty trying to compile at least a few not-so-well-managed projects from source (though never the kernel). I don't consider myself what you call an "enthusiast" either - I have no interest in intentionally using unstable code. That leaves "professional", but, as people like you would probably be very quick to agree, I'd never dare call myself that until I've gotten the kernel to compile on, say, some very recently released machine, and used ndiswrapper to get wireless working, bla bla, which I haven't done.

      So, I guess I'm the exception that proves that your view of what every linux user should be like is correct?

      --
      weinersmith
    4. Re:The bad old days by ktappe · · Score: 2, Insightful

      i love linux, but never in a million years do i want to compile a kernel.

      Well, it's like changing a tire, writing your own interrupt handlers, or hand-optimizing memory usage.

      It's something everybody should do at least once in their life so they understand the process. And, once you've done it, you will never want to do it again.

      It's not at all clear to me why everyone should compile a kernel at least once. Yes, I can do it if necessary but I see no reason why, especially with all the Linux evangelists trying to get it on every desktop, they feel the average Joe should ever know what compiling is let alone have to do it to an entire OS. You use a fork everyday but is really beneficial to know how to forge one? You write or print on paper regularly but should you have to know how to fell a tree and turn it into wood pulp? It seems ridiculous to expect everyone to know everything. Differentiation of information and skillsets is how a society works. Let OS geeks compile operating systems while the rest of us learn how to make them do things kernel developers never thought of.

      --
      "We can categorically state we have not released man-eating badgers into the area." - UK military spokesman, July 2007
    5. Re:The bad old days by roothog · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You're missing a category: People who were enthusiasts for a lot of years and got burned out trying to keep their computers running. I run Ubuntu now.

    6. Re:The bad old days by roothog · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It's something everybody should do at least once in their life so they understand the process.

      I'm a little confused. What aspect of the process requires understanding?

      Compiling a kernel is:
      - make menuconfig
      - make && make modules_install
      - mv bzImage /boot
      - emacs /boot/grub/grub.conf

      Maybe I'm just jaded, but I'm missing how this is enlightening and/or instructive. Why is it useful for people to know these steps?

    7. Re:The bad old days by shougyin · · Score: 5, Funny

      bi-curious?

    8. Re:The bad old days by gstoddart · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It's not at all clear to me why everyone should compile a kernel at least once.

      Because, the notion that it's a task that is (or should be) reserved only for the tech wizards is intellectually offensive.

      One of my university profs (to whom I owe a great debt of gratitude) had very strong ideas about learning to do such things for yourself, and as a result, understanding more of the context and scope of it. You learn a lot more, and you remember it for longer -- it's not some random fact to be forgotten, it's something that you've internalized and that means something. As a result, when I wrote a microkernel as part of my OS theory class, I really got to understand how an OS works from the bare metal up. Have I done it since? Nope. Not at all. Am I grateful for having done it? Youbetcherass.

      I'm not saying that literally everyone should compile a kernel -- my mother, for instance, not so much. But, in terms of demystifying the process, I think it's a valuable thing to learn.

      I remember several years ago when my father (at the time in his late 60's, and a computer n00b) came to the conclusion he needed to install a printer driver. The chain of thought to arrive at the conclusion that there is a) such thing as a printer driver, b) you need one to make your printer work, and c) determining the steps to install a printer driver is quite impressive. It represents grasping several concepts before you can even move onto trying to find a solution -- but, in the end, he understood what drivers did (broadly), why we need them, and how to install one.

      If you just threw up your hands and said "zomg, that's just way too complicated and therefore beyond me", you're going to curl up in a ball the first time things get difficult.

      So, yes, if you consider yourself more than a Linux hobbyist, and just want to give yourself a little more in-depth understanding ... compile a kernel. Break your machine like the rest of us have. Panic. Fix it. At the very least, it demystifies the process ... and on the other hand, forces you to understand at least at a high level that there are such things as kernels and drivers, but that it's not some arcane magic.

      Now, get off my damned lawn and go compile a kernel or something. ;-)

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
  9. arcane knowledge needed, but great rewards? by Jimmy+King · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Sure, I remember those days. Now that I use Linux for real work, with live production servers, and not just screwing around in my bedroom I don't have time for that nonsense. I greatly prefer the more common state of things where the mostly automated configuration is probably pretty close to what I need, but I still have the option to make use of that arcane knowledge to tweak things if I need/want to.

    Don't get me wrong, that kind of distro still has its place in the world, but it shouldn't be the standard way of things.

  10. Re:Advanced, and Not For Wimps by gstoddart · · Score: 2, Informative

    You know, Id like to meet this "Script0Granny" you speak of. That sounds like an interesting old bitty.

    Her name was Rear Admiral Grace Hopper, and I bet she's still giving them hell someplace. =)

    There have been others, I'm sure. But none quite like her.

    --
    Lost at C:>. Found at C.
  11. Terrible review by Gothmolly · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Half the article describes his test laptop and the theme he used. Then he didn't get USB3 to work, and suggested you overwrite your modules file (hint: use 2 > characters, not one). Then he complained about the CD burning program. Who burns CDs anymore?

    Nothing about SELinux, nothing about filesystems, nothing about updated packages like SSH, Postfix, Bind, or anything.

    a better article summary: "Beta Fedora makes a weak desktop, and I didn't bother to try any of the cool features of Linux"

    --
    I want to delete my account but Slashdot doesn't allow it.
    1. Re:Terrible review by AdamWill · · Score: 2

      /etc/modprobe.d is a typical example of the neat system of config snippets: *any* file in it with the extension .conf is parsed assuming the same format and purpose as /etc/modprobe.conf . /etc/modprobe.d/xhci.conf is not part of any Fedora package or any upstream codebase, it's just a convenient filename to stick in /etc/modprobe.d for this purpose. Which is the reason for the use of > rather than >> , though I suppose >> would have worked just as well.

  12. Another great release by MSG · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Can we get over the quality of the review and celebrate the release of Fedora 14, already? I've been running it since the beta release, and I'm very happy with it. Fedora 14 is another great release by a group of people who are dedicated to Free Software!

  13. Re:In Some Ways It Still Is - vintage?? by miknix · · Score: 3, Funny

    From TFA:

    This 2008-vintage notebook is powered by a 2.2GHz Intel Core 2 Duo processor

    My server is powered by a Athlon64 3400+ you insensitive clod!

  14. virtualbox by nnet · · Score: 2, Informative

    Installed and runs fine on virtualbox for me....

  15. Re:ctrl alt backspace by walshy007 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I'm a fedora user, ubuntu got xorg to make the change to the defaults so all distros were affected.

    I just change my xorg.conf, but still, one more thing to do because of retarded noobs having too much influence.

  16. Re:Fedora vs Ubuntu by AdamWill · · Score: 2, Informative

    "Ubuntu is more aimed at polished experience for the end user in terms of QA prior to the release. Fedora developers however rely on early user reports after the release."

    This is not true.

    https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA:Desktop_validation_testing
    https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA:Installation_validation_testing