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Mystery Missile Launched Near LA
J. L. Tympanum writes "CBS News is reporting the launch of an unidentified missile off the coast of California. No one wants to take credit for it." The article has visuals taken from a CBS affiliate's helicopter, and a Navy spokesman said it wasn't theirs.
It is obviously some super-secret government/military thing.
If it was not sanctioned by the military, we would be at high alert right now, right?
Wrong date. November 9 is today, not last night.
Populus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur...
"Force shits upon Reason's back." - Poor Richard's Almanac
Much more likely, it was some sort of prototype/enhanced/modified missile tested by the USN, and they won't admit it just because doing so would mean admitting theres a development programme going on (and anyone getting a radar track of its mision profile might be able to deduce things about it)
I understand that stealth aircraft were tested for years before the technology was publicly acknowledged
I have been a user for about 10 years. This ends Feb 2014. The site's been ruined. I'm off. Dice, FU
Has anyone looked at the NOTAMS for that day?
If it was a government launch then a NOTAM must have been filed to clear the air space.
They would not risk an accident that would take out an airliner full of people.
I tried to look but found nothing listed.
As to a demonstration that the US can launch ballistic missiles from a sub... Well yea that has been proven for about the last 50 years. And you can bet your bottom dollar that you do not just pop off long range missile with out telling Russia and China that you are going to do it!
That could be bad...
BTW Subs do not launch intercontinental ballistic missiles "ICBMs". They launch Sub launched ballistic missiles "SLBMs"
At this point the fact that nobody is saying anything and it is getting so little press really scares the daylights out of me.
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We know where it came from. Just because you don't isn't a problem.
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It was Nov 9 GMT.
Seems clearly likely that the US military knows exactly what it is and doesn't want to talk about it. (Maybe it's high up enough that even the local commanders don't have a full picture) :P
Considering how this country often goes apeshit over fake or small threats, hell hath no fury like the US facing an actual incident.
I listen to both RIAA and non-RIAA stuff if I like the music, tangential business/politics nonwithstanding.
Here's yo free shit, motherfuckers!
Remember - the Internet is killing investigative journalism.
Fine it's a secret test, but why on Earth would you do it near the coast? Why not just do it out in the ocean where it's substantially less public? I mean, it's supposed to be secret, why do it in plain view?
Then why would you launch it right next to one of the most populated areas in the US? If you were going to launch something like that why not take it to some overseas territories in the middle of the pacific and test it there? I mean, really, out of all the places to stage a launch you do it 30 some miles off the coast of a very populated city? Even though it is the US government, you would think they would be smarter than that.
Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
When those two are involved, 'rocket' and 'water heater' are interchangable.
Nobody thought that it might be a demonstration to the US from an unnamed entity, trying to make the same point?
Is Dr. Evil on TV right now?
The end of the article says that some Ex Ambassador says that it MIGHT be a demonstration to China that US Subs can launch intercontinental missiles - since Obama is touring over there right now.
That ability hasn't been a secret since the Nixon administration.
If Slashdot were chemistry it would look like this:Cadaverine
I believe the term they are looking for is "secret" or "classified".
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But why? The world already knows we can launch ICBMs from submarines.
Because a covert missile launch is so much more interesting (and newsworthy), perhaps?
Tiller's Rule: Never use a word in written form that you've only heard and never read. You will end up looking foolish.
Bingo!
There's no reason for us to demonstrate our well-known SLBM capabilities to our own country's most populated county. I think it's highly likely that this is one of our 'peer nations' showing-off that we're entirely 'within range'.
Trust me, they saw this at Beale, where they have a huge radar system designed to see incoming ICBMs. If this wasn't an exercise or a test launch (both of which would have likely happened a little more out of the way), you won't hear much more about it. Neither the military nor the media would tell Americans if China, Russia, or India was playing around right off our beaches, the reality that we could all easily become iridescent chalky dust at the drop of a hat distracts from the main objectives: Fighting bad guys with AK-47s to secure cheap energy, and buying stuff on credit.
"Sometimes, I think Trent just needs a cup of hot chocolate and a blankie." -Tori Amos on Nine Inch Nails
hey, wait a moment. Kansas City, MO or Kansas City, KS?
rewriting history since 2109
Countries having the capability of underwater launch include China, Russia, Britain, US, and maybe Iran and India using ex soviet era subs. Maybe a couple others.
France does. India is developing their own sub/missile which should be ready shortly (according to wikipedia). It wouldn't surprise me if Isreal has this capability as well. The one thing that struck me as somewhat odd when reading the wikipedia page on SLBMs was this: The five countries that are known to have SLBM capability are the five permanent members of the UN security council. India, the only other nation listed on that page, is indicated to be developing SLBMs. The other day, wasn't Obama advocating the inclusion of India as a permanent member of the security council? Something seems a little fishy to me.
Seriously? You've never heard of submarine-launched ballistic missiles? They're a VERY important part of our strategic nuclear defense. Even if an adversary kills the entire civilian and military leadership and destroys all of our nuclear silos in a surprise "first strike", we have SLBM submarines patrolling the oceans in secret locations that can launch a devastating "second strike". This deters adversaries from trying to launch a "first strike" when they think they have the upper hand.
Not to mention it would make absolutely NO sense to fire off the coast of CA and risk a panic when we already have test ranges in the Pacific just for such tests. I'm starting to wonder if this wasn't a fuckup, as that is the ONLY reason why I could think they would launch something that close. Maybe they had a leak and had to get the bird off the ship? Because that is the only reason why I can see the Navy or other branch of the Armed Forces not going through established procedures and then trying to claim it wasn't them.
It isn't like the Navy would want to broadcast "Yesterday Sgt Gomer found PFC Pile had accidentally started a serious breach of safety and security, causing us to launch the bird to keep the dumbass from blowing the whole ship up. We apologize for any scares and can assure you Pile is now manning a station in the Arctic circle. Have a nice day." Because the only other reason I can think of is that it wasn't the USA, which is a scary thought. Hey, didn't we bust some drug dealers awhile back for having an ex Soviet sub? while I doubt China or Russia would be that stupid, there are plenty of others with subs not to mention Soviet hardware on the market. It would be pretty damned scary if some "off the books" Boomer or Alpha just popped up and said hi, and the US sure as hell wouldn't admit if that were the case.
Either way this one is a head scratcher, as it would make no sense for the USA to launch it on purpose given the 50 year+ history of doing these types of tests at our Pacific ranges. Hell have we EVER done a test launch off our own coast before? Because I certainly don't remember ever hearing of one.
ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
I don't know where I read this, but it seems like there is at least an annual test of the launcher systems of all nuclear submarines, simply to make sure that the crew is sufficiently trained on the procedure and that the equipment is all working as intended. Usually this is accompanies by a "Notice to Mariners" and semi-publicized in terms of warning commercial shipping groups to stay out of the area, as having a ballistic missile bump into the keel of your ship is something most ship's captains would want to avoid if possible. The exact location may be kept secret or given a slightly false location to keep anti-war idiots from trying to be heroic by committing suicide, but a general region of the ocean would be marked as a place to "stay away from" in terms of testing.
Often these notices will be released at the last minute and there certainly won't be much in the way of details, but if this is an official test by the U.S. military there usually is at least some claim to the fact that it happened. The question is ore why that wasn't the case here, or perhaps it was an "oops" where some sailor screwed up and punched the wrong button. If that was the case, expect a cover-up on this because those kind of secrets never get released to the public.
My guess is that it was the Navy testing some sort of prototype missile. Most of this stuff is highly classified, and you're not going to know about it until it is incredibly inconvenient to keep it a secret anymore. My uncle used to work with McDonnell Douglas and told that by the time that something became public, it had been under development for ten years, and the potential enemies already knew the details through leaks. At the testing phase, it would become feasible to make it known to the general public.
For instance, it was years before the Lockheed F-117 was widely known due to secrecy and then general media suppression once it was known to exist.
35 miles out to sea is in international waters..... shy of declaring war the U.S. Navy isn't going to destroy anything with impunity, but you will see a few naval officers get demoted real fast for failing to detect that vessel if it wasn't associated with the Navy.
Let's ignore that the US hasn't actually ratified the international treaties that sets those rules, meaning it doesn't really care what China or anyone else thinks it can do 35 miles from US coast.
You're forgetting that this was launched in the middle of the Channel Islands off the California coast, it's considered Archipelagic waters and therefore sovereign US territory.
So, the two likely scenarios would be: 1) The US test firing something, but nobody knows who or what just yet because it is being kept secret. 2) Someone else firing off missiles off the coast of the US to demonstrate a point.
I consider 1) likely, and 2) just downright scary.
Probably #1. My bet is a Trident missile launch associacted with the Naval Facility on San Nicholas. Many people's heads will role because if Norad, or the Russians/Chinese did not know it was a test it could have started WWIII.
I'm not so certain that maritime law would allow the US to respond with violence for firing a missile from outside US territorial waters and the trajectory of the weapon never crosses US water or soil. According to wikipedia, foreign nuclear subs are even allowed passage within US territorial waters and are not "destroyed with impunity" on sight. In this case, however, the missile was launched from 35 nautical miles offshore, which would put it in international waters.
I suspect this was the act of a foreign entity demonstrating a newly-developed capability to the United States. If the submarine doesn't identify its country of origin, then the US would be allowed to destroy it with impunity in international waters.
I also suspect the US knows exactly who did this and knew prior to the incident and was able to discretely provide advance warning to the other superpowers. There are probably a mixture of reasons the US is playing dumb on the identity of the launcher.
Seth
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Exactly. "Did it come back down?" and "Where did it go?" are obvious questions none of the articles I've seen are asking. And why aren't the media outlets seeming to ask anyone other than the Pentagon who could answer those questions? I haven't seen any reports of comments from NASA or from any Russian government agency.
If it doesn't work then why are the Russians so afraid of it?
A 150lb ITG picking a fight with a 230lb fighter would make you say "Why would the 230lb guy worry?"
Because the 150lb guy might delude himself into believing his own hype, and you DON'T want someone thinking that they have the ability to start a nuclear war and not suffer consequences. Even if they are wrong, they might believe their own hype.
Out of modpoints but really liked a post? 1BDkF6TtmmeZ3yqXbz9yhdYVqRYnwFoXDj
You are correct, I meant perspective.
I ain't buying it about the wider=older thing, though.
It takes some pretty special circumstances to make a contrail spread anisotropically. Once the hot vapor from the engines has expanded, condensed, and been contained by the vortices from the wings, it's a pretty stable situation with little spread unless something else gets involved.
really cool pick at an iffy link here:
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_rkPt7JME0-8/SbZndqgc2bI/AAAAAAAAAWI/8UVhtw4fwOU/s320/boeing+747+jumbo+contrail.jpg
I want that in a glossy 8x10 for my office.
To get the sort of triangular spread you're thinking of you'd need to have the contrail in a wind-shear, and wind-shear means turbulent flight, and a pilot wouldn't hang out in that for that long, so it should happens to the tails of a contrail, not to the whole contrail starting from the head, as we're looking at in the article's picture.
sheared contrail:
http://www.mdbsite.com/skies/contrails/info-3.jpg
So I'm sticking with perspective, not diffusion.
China has enough nukes to make the west coast of the usa a mess, killing hundreds of thousands or even several million. The USA has enough nukes to make China the world's largest parking lot, and can activate enough others on standby to make it a solid glass parking lot. They have a few hundred, we have tens of thousands, including some megaton varieties which they don't have. They have enough to prevent nuclear war. We have enough to exterminate the entire humans race. There is a big difference in scale here.
China is already at war with us, but it is an economic war. They wouldn't fuck this up by using their military except to defend themselves, or invade Taiwan. And yes, they are already planning the invasion of Taiwan.
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