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Apache Declares War On Oracle Over Java
jfruhlinger writes "The Apache Software Foundation, feeling increasingly marginalized as Oracle asserts its control over the Java platform, is fighting back, trying to rally fellow members of the Java Community Process to block the next version of the language if Oracle doesn't make it available under an open license amenable to Apache. Last month's Oracle-IBM pact was a blow against the ASF, which had worked with IBM in the past, but it appears that Apache isn't giving up the fight."
Now we know who launched that missile!
Injuns, soothsayers, and volcanoes? Sounds like one hella cool game! When'll the demo be available?
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Prisencolinensinainciusol. Ol Rait!
> Apache Declares War On Oracle Over Java
Sometimes it seems like the world hasn't changed much in the last two thousand years.
-- IANAL, this isn't legal advice, and definitely isn't legal advice for you. Also, Squee!
Nokia went for Python on Maemo. Looks like they knew what they were doing.
Java is the new COBOL.
During the declining years of cobol, I/we watched the participants fighting to increase their portion of the pie, regardless of how much it shrunk the pie.
"Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
Mono is a trap, and solely exists at Microsoft's pleasure. Once MS decides the want to kill it, out go the patent infringement lawsuits and anyone using Mono is on shaky ground unless they donate to Microsoft's coffers.
The fact that it hasn't happened yet is no insurance. Copyright/left is one thing, patents are another and I don't trust Microsoft.
Make sure everyone's vote counts: Verified Voting
The license is not the issue, the patents are the issue.
If it gains traction rest assured MS will come seeking rent like they trying to do with android now.
There should be a top ten list of rising stars among evil companies.
(But who would hold slots #2-10?)
If you wanted to make this headline more sensational, you could change it to "Apache says GPLv2 license not good enough." which is what OpenJDK7 is licensed under.
Yeah, Apache may be at war with Oracle now, but this has the potential for much more widespread damage. It also puts the Free Software Foundation in an... interesting position, as this technically is the first salvo from Apache in a license war between GPL and Apache License.
GLaDOS for President 2016! "Well here we are again. It's always such a pleasure." -- GLaDOS, 2011
Oracle wants to reduce the competition and to "leverage" IBM's expertise. Once that expertise has fixed the issues with OpenJDK and Harmony has died, IBM becomes disposable to Oracle.
IBM is most unlikely to stop all work on Harmony, they're just not going to distribute it. Oracle's implementation of Java will suffer performance and reliability problems. IBM already has its own compiler (Jikes) and IBM already has a Java distribution. Once IBM has the certification toolkit, it can internally continue to develop Harmony and upgrade Jikes to v7 Java. Remember, this is just a repeat of IBM's experience with Microsoft regarding OS/2 - only Oracle hasn't the muscle of Microsoft. Once IBM is satisfied, they dump Oracle, release their Java as standard on all IBM hardware and, because they have better ties with Linux than Oracle, on many Linux distros, and they'll likely be able to convince the courts that they don't infringe on any patents because they are officially licensed to be able to use whatever the technology is.
Again, though, IBM won't want too much competition in the Open Source community. They can't rob Oracle of power over Java if they aren't the de-facto controllers of Java. For now, they'll be best of enemies. Going back to the OS/2 fiasco, they learned the hard way that in such partnerships the first one to dump the other will be the winner. The partner left in the dirt WILL be trampled over, no matter how much better their product might be technically. And IBM will want to be the winner in this. Mind you, so will Oracle. Oracle will also be familiar with this process and will want to pull a Microsoft, killing IBM's Java work, forcing IBM to either sacrifice all they've spent or to sell it to Oracle at bargain-basement prices.
It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
Most people never thought Java would become a hot potato to be careful with. No one thought that Oracle would be going after people over patents. Sun put Java under the GPL2.
Can you tell me how Mono is more safe being under the GPL/LGPL/MIT when it is using tech directly from a company that is in many ways a direct competitor and has outwardly stated it thinks of open source as "communism"? Microsoft does have patents on specific things used in Mono. Mono is also under the GPL2. Coincidence? I think not.
It's called a can of worms. It's just we have a lot of slashdotters who refuse to believe it now for whatever reason.
Once you start despising the jerks, you become one.
The Apache Indian in North America would go to war with the Athenian Oracle at Delphi over the island of Java in the South Pacific.
Sounds like a game of FreeCiv
XML is a known as a key material required to create SMD: Software of Mass Destruction
Huh? Oracle has been evil for most of its 30 year existence. If you've ever done business with them you'd have experienced it first hand. They'd have been worse than Microsoft if given the chance.
Very often, people confuse simple with simplistic. The nuance is lost on most. - Clement Mok
Apache to Oracle: Do what we say or we'll resign!
Oracle to Apache: Sayanora
I don't know that they should stay, but if they want to have any influence working with Oracle, aligned along Oracle's self interest is the only way to have impact.
Declaring "war" and making threats is highly unlikely to cause any useful change in Oracle's direction.
Surely the OpenSolaris experience illustrates just how Oracle behaves w.r.t. threats.
A lot of the people who comment on the subject seem to be familiar with the Java language itself, but not so much with the significance of the frameworks and libraries that are out there. In these threads, I don't usually get the sense that some of the posters are very aware of just how much business software has been built in Java in the past decade. Whenever I see comments dismissing Java based on stuff like applet or Swing performance, it just drives the point home that some people simply don't understand where the Java code is. (Hint, it's not in the end-user GUI or the 2D or 3D animation.)
-fb Everything not expressly forbidden is now mandatory.
I think/hope that they are going to absolutely shoot themselves in the foot with this. Much of their top talent has left in droves since the Sun acquisition. They sent a recruiting email to myself and some of my friends -- some of the top students at the top CS school in the country -- asking if we were interested in coming to work on the Solaris kernel full-time; they were pretty much collectively told, "After what you did to Sun? No way." If their talented engineers are by-and-large leaving and they are by-and-large unable to hire more, they will quickly become a dying shell of a mediocre company.
Omnes stulti sunt.
- Apache Software Foundation: Check
- OpenOffice.org/Open Document Foundation: Check
- MySQL: Check
At this rate, you'll have pissed off the entire world of free software before the year is over. Maybe go for Linux next. Or the Mozilla Foundation, but I don't remember if Sun was involved there in a major way.
Right a bunch of students with no work experience unilaterally turn down guaranteed full time positions with a established company in this economy.