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UK Games Retailers Threaten Boycott of Steam Games

RogueyWon writes "Games industry trade site MCV is reporting that two major UK video games retailers are threatening to ban Steam-enabled PC games from their stores. The as-yet-unnamed retailers are apparently concerned that by selling Steam games, they are pointing their customers towards a competitor and will by trying to bring pressure upon publishers to strip Steam functionality from their games. This could prove an interesting test of where the real power lies at the retail end of PC gaming."

22 of 443 comments (clear)

  1. Okay... by Monkeedude1212 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    More sales for Steam then?

    1. Re:Okay... by Monkeedude1212 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I can't remember if it was on here or some other site but I read a bit where a guy went to go buy Oblivion from GameStop and he just so happened to enter when someone was trying to sell their copy of Oblivion to the store. The used copy from the store was going for 30 or 40 bucks while they were only willing to pay like 10 dollars for buying it back.

      The guy interrupted and offered $20 for the exchange and the two of them left the store happy.

      I think I may do this with some of my older games - I'll go stand right out front of Gamestop and huck my goods.

    2. Re:Okay... by hairyfeet · · Score: 4, Informative

      But on the other hand things like Steam (or worse AC2 style online "activation") are killing the used PC game market for ALL of us not just Gamestop. And don't forget this is DRM folks, which means you play THEIR game by THEIR rules, because YOU never own it! Want to mod it? Not allowed unless they say so. Want to sell it? Not allowed. I don't see how this is ANY different from the Apple walled garden approach, since they have all the rights to do as they please AFTER the sale.

      So while I think Gamestop can be serious asses, let us not forget that ultimately all these Steam style distribution methods make for a great run around our first sale rights, and make every "purchase" nothing more than a really expensive rental. They can pull your account, take your games away from you, they have ALL the control in their walled garden while you have none. That is why I have been putting my money where my mouth is and been shopping at Good Old Games where at least I OWN what I pay for.

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    3. Re:Okay... by kungfugleek · · Score: 4, Insightful

      and make every "purchase" nothing more than a really expensive rental.

      Almost every game I've purchased on Steam was under $5. Some even less. Never more than $10. Not that expensive as far as a "rental" goes.

    4. Re:Okay... by RapmasterT · · Score: 4, Insightful

      As someone who works at a second-hand store, this is a very rude thing to do,..

      Frankly, and without trying to be insulting to you personally, but second hand stores can take that attitude and cram it right up wherever your species traditionally crams things.

      As someone who used to manage a retail software store, I can tell you that 8% margins are pretty typical for software and game sales. Second hand stores operate on a 200 - 300% margin because they pay pennies on the dollar for the buyback, then resell for a small discount off new retail. This kid of "poached" transaction may be considered rude by the second hand stores, but it's OBVIOUS and INEVITABLE because you're offering so far below market value for it.

    5. Re:Okay... by wjousts · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Now, if it'd been offered in Steam and the DRM (which you cry so hard about) keeps the piracy numbers way down -- ultimately the company makes money and piracy is much lower.

      I assume you have a source to cite that proves piracy is much lower on Steam DRM'ed games? Because I'm pretty sure everything on Steam is out on the torrents somewhere...

    6. Re:Okay... by Lokeh · · Score: 4, Interesting

      No offense taken, and the battle of used-store vs. streetcorner/ebay/craigslist vs. new is a difficult and complicated situation. In the end, all anyone wants to do is "get on by" without upsetting people, but all these things seem to be in contention with one another for one thing: your dollar.

      I could say how we don't normally set our prices at "just below retail": most of our prices are determined by what we research online (for media this is usually a quick check on Amazon) and we price them as such, unless we're POSITIVE it will sell for more. We've also ran into some competition with Walmart, actually, where they price their brand new blu-rays and some consumer electronics items at or below USED value (which tends to be ~60% retail on average).

      As for what we pay, it reflects the risk we're taking on what we buy. A vendor has the ability to get replacements or refunds if there is a significant amount of a defective product; for us, it just goes in the trash. We have to do our research, hold it for a number of weeks to be processed by the police, clean it, maintain it, and then guarantee it - all after buying this thing from someone that decided to use their DVD cases as coasters. Fantastic. $10-$15 for something we're going to turn around and sell for $30 sounds more than fair to me, but I suppose I'm biased.

      The issue isn't that people are buying and selling between each other instead of us. It's using our facilities, our store, as a way to find that connection. Go use craigslist or ebay - we refer people there all the time when they don't like what we're willing to pay - but it's akin to us coming and selling our crap in the middle of your store and saying that it's OBVIOUS and INEVITABLE because you're selling everything SO FAR ABOVE market value.

  2. Structural Unemployment for Middle Men by eldavojohn · · Score: 5, Insightful
    The boss of the UK game retailers said:

    Publishers are creating a monster – we are telling suppliers to stop using Steam in their games.

    No, publishers are finding new innovative revenue streams that cater to the customer. The only reason it's a 'monster' is because you perceive it to be a threat to your business model and, surprise surprise, you're not a part of that revenue stream so it's the devil. And you don't understand it, that is painfully evident by the 'stop using Steam in their games' part of your statement. They don't use Steam in their games anymore than they use Wal-Mart in their games.

    If you understood that this is increasing revenue and profits to the publishers, you might also start to see that it increases the number of copies sold. Now, if more people are buying the game it is possible that Steam will expand this market and leave some of the sales to the brick and mortar stores. It is, however, a possibility that you are correct in that your model will become obsolete -- such is the nature of business. You can either respond by being a jerk about it (although you're holding aces backed with eights as a large middle man), you can attempt to become part of that distribution model (have you thought about selling steam gift cards?) or you can do nothing. If you lose your business, well that's just some good old structural unemployment where the hostile market of capitalism violently guides you to better serve the consumer in a new and -- here's the scary word -- innovative ways. Seriously though, when is the last time you did something new and interesting aside from unboxing the latest game and paying some high school student minimum wage to set up the Halo display and cardboard cutouts?

    Hey man, if you want to make me pick between you, the distributor, and the publishers that actually make the games I cherish ... you aren't going to get very far in my book. I mean, Steam has DRM but it saves me gas and money and puts me a little closer to that little developer that spends countless nights slaving away over code. That's where I want the bulk of my money to go when I purchase a game -- to that guy.

    --
    My work here is dung.
    1. Re:Structural Unemployment for Middle Men by RogueyWon · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I feel so conflicted over this one, to be honest.

      On the one hand, high street game retailers have nobody but themselves to blame for their woes, particularly where PC games are concerned. Going out on a limb, I'd guess that the two UK retailers the story refers to are Game and Gamestation. Of course, both of those have the same owning company, so maybe there's actually another retailer out there who's thinking the same way, but I wouldn't bet on it. I think HMV (our major music/dvds high street retailer that also does games) is too diversified to be really worried about the PC gaming market.

      The main difference between Game and Gamestation is that the latter is almost entirely used games sales, while the former generously gives over a good 25% or so of its shelf-space in the average store to new games. Occasionally, they'll even let you buy one without a pre-order.

      Gamestation is, in my opinion, pretty much unspeakable. They have a business model that revolves around buying copies of Fifa Soccer off teenagers for £3 (or £5 if they accept payment in store credit) and selling them on at £30. I've nothing against used games sales, but really, people could be getting a far better deal either as vendor or buyer from ebay. And that's basically the entirety of Gamestation.

      Game used to be somewhat better. Sure, they have the same used-games model, but they did at least used to be a reasonable place to buy new titles. These days, however, if you want anything other than the last couple of big releases for each platform; well, I hope you pre-ordered. They have a small number of flagship stores that are slightly better, but shopping in the average branch pretty much comes down to "Do you want Fifa new or used (oh, and the right answer is "used")?". I remember when Valkyria Chronicles 2 came out... I was told by the staff at the Game branch in London's Victoria Station that I had no chance of getting one without pre-order. So I walked a few yards to the (tiny, cupboard-like) branch of HMV and got one there.

      And as for PC gaming, both chains have completely neglected it since the start of the current console cycle. If the store had a PC section (and not every store did) it was usually a single rack with a new release or two and a collection of 5-10 year old casual titles. No refunds on PC games (though they might reluctantly exchange a damaged disc) and, with no used market, the retailers weren't interested. And yet now, with the current gen consoles looking a little bit tired (with no successors in sight) and Valve having revived the PC market quite effectively, high-street retailers decide that they want a slice of it. And apparently they want it handed to them on a platter.

      And at the same time, Steam is, in many ways, an extremely good service. As DRM goes, it's not offensive. It's tied to an account, not a PC, and you can redownload data as many times as you want. There's no need to put any kind of game disc in your drive. And Steam does generally seem to offer at least an alternative to the kinds of hideous DRM we've seen elsewhere. Plus it's a well-rounded platform that includes achievements, friends lists and most of the other features we expect from the (subscription based) Xbox Live service.

      However... there are aspects of Valve's business practices that are starting to worry me. I have no sympathy for high-street retailers, but I do think that some of Valve's online competitors are being very hard done by. It must suck for direct2drive (who I have used and who are fine, if not as good as Steam) that every copy of Call of Duty: Black Ops they sell has to be installed within Steam, sending customers direct to their main competitor. Steam has, thus far, been a net positive for PC gamers. But should Steam become the only platform in town, then I don't think that's going to work so well for the customer. Ideally, we need some of their competition to get their act in gear and improve their own services to the point where they become a valid alternative.

    2. Re:Structural Unemployment for Middle Men by Beyond_GoodandEvil · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Having recently purchased Fallout:New Vegas, and discovering Steam needed to be installed, I've yet to see the value added proposition that Steam brings to New Vegas. Did I miss the button I'm supposed to press and someone from Steam will arrive with a pizza or some other form of bribe so I'll run around proclaiming Steam the greatest thing since bread came in a slice? I only ask since I'd manage to avoid Steam for so long while still purchasing PC games.

      --
      I laughed at the weak who considered themselves good because they lacked claws.
    3. Re:Structural Unemployment for Middle Men by Antisyzygy · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Its ridiculous. One major hypocrisy here in the US is "We believe in capitalism, so long as it benefits us". They are complaining they aren't making money and want to restrict the market, all at the same time having the benefits of a capitalist society, i.e. the ability to innovate and try to out compete without being interfered with by the government. Maybe they should try including some service along with the game Steam does not supply, or maybe they should target the DRM nature of Steam and sell only Non-DRM software, or maybe they should give everyone that comes in the store a free hot dog and a coupon to save on gas. Its simply a case of eating your cake and expecting to have it afterwards.

      --
      That brings me to an interesting point, / . is just "the ramblings of socially-inept, technology-literate news-mongers".
    4. Re:Structural Unemployment for Middle Men by Aceticon · · Score: 4, Insightful

      No, publishers are finding new innovative revenue streams that cater to the customer. The only reason it's a 'monster' is because you perceive it to be a threat to your business model and, surprise surprise, you're not a part of that revenue stream so it's the devil. And you don't understand it, that is painfully evident by the 'stop using Steam in their games' part of your statement. They don't use Steam in their games anymore than they use Wal-Mart in their games.

      WTF?

      Ever tried to return a digital download game in the UK?
      You can't. Even if the game doesn't work at all in your PC and you are per-UK consumer regulations entitled to a refund (since it's not "fit for purpose"). The digital download company is based in a location with little or no consumer rights (*cough* US *cough*) and they'll basically laugh in your face.

      Ever tried to return a store bought game in the UK?
      They sometimes bitch and moan a bit, then you say the magic words ("Not fit for purpose" and "Trading Standards") and lo-and-behold - you get your money back.

      I for one am pretty damn scared of the rise of Digital Downloads for games and it's associated importing of minimum common-denominator consumer protection laws and do want the option of returning non-functional games that a bricks-and-mortar store gives me. From my point of view, anything that allows those stores to survive is a good thing.

      In fact I have been boycotting all games that use Steam for that reason (and because they cannot be given, lent, traded or resold; because they do not work on machines without an Internet connection; because I would like the option to install them in 10 years time if I feel like it; because I do not want that the distributor of the game has the option to remotelly disable my game at will). It's just too bad that most game buyers out there are more than willing to bend-over and pull their pants down in exchange for prettier graphics.

      The way I see it, in this sea of ignorant, self-deluded and low IQ consumers, the only chance that the few of us with more than 2 neurons have of, in 20 years time, still being able to return faulty games is if bricks-and-mortars manage to survive.

    5. Re:Structural Unemployment for Middle Men by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      Having used Direct2Drive off and on over some years, and even within the last couple months, I assure you that what will push D2D out of business will be D2D. Their install experience is an inconsistent frustrating mess, they do nothing to remove CD keys from the activation process, and then they add another key on top of it, and finding the ones that actually work for both of these activations is a unique little puzzle to solve for each game you download. Oh on top of it, the activation has to run as administrator or it simply doesn't work -- this information is only gradually bubbling up through their support pages. Their idea of support is to send you to the publisher who will of course have no idea exactly how D2D broke their game.

      Oh and if you're dumb enough to use Comrade (which they've been packing in as a drive-by install of some games not on D2D now) then it will "helpfully" find your other games, such as Steam, and offer to overwrite them with patches. Since Comrade can't install anything transparently, at least it isn't going to break your game automatically, yet. And all this, I've yet said nothing of Comrade's store, which pretty much just sends you to the web page -- but the fact that it might prevent you from buying a game off D2D makes me construe this lack as a feature.

      Now I do agree that Steam could still become an abusive monopoly, and does need competition to push them to continue to innovate and keep its quality high, but D2D doesn't exactly set a high bar. I could see Impulse being that competition, but not D2D: I will dance on Direct2Drive's grave when I'm done pissing on it.

    6. Re:Structural Unemployment for Middle Men by RsG · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Regardless of what the numbers are for the cut Steam takes, they're going to undercut Gamestop in the long haul. They don't have the attendant costs of a brick-and-mortar.

      Really, Steam may not be perfect (I really wish more online stores were DRM free), but compared to Gamestop and company, they're practically saints. I know which side I'm rooting for.

      And as a final thought: How many games actually need to have Steam if they're being sold as physical copies? Wouldn't it be preferable for the gamers if the game disc just installed single player mode without requiring the user has Steam, with the understanding that they can register their key/install Steam for multiplayer?

      --
      Erotic is when you use a feather. Exotic is when you use the whole chicken.
    7. Re:Structural Unemployment for Middle Men by __aailob1448 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Steam uses DRM, which is evil, and does not provide a way for customers to resell their games, which is also evil. In addition, it strangles LAN play by requiring an unnecessary internet connection, which adds some more evil to the mix.

      I am saddened by the popularity of steam and deeply disappointed by the decisions Valve made regarding their customers' rights and privileges.

    8. Re:Structural Unemployment for Middle Men by Aceticon · · Score: 4, Informative

      No refunds on PC games (though they might reluctantly exchange a damaged disc)

      Actually they do refund non-functional games - I've gotten refunds myself from Game, twice. They will try to squirm out of it but all you have to say is that the game does not work in your system and is thus "Not fit for purpose" (this expression has a special meaning as per UK-consumer laws).

      Their hole deceitfull approach to making people believe that they can get no refunds at all is say that they will "Refund within 30 days if not open" making the buyer think that (that's the deceitfull part) they cannot get a refund at all if the package is open. In fact, as per UK consumer laws, you can get a refund at any time if the product is "Not fit for purpose" (i.e. does not work, does not do what it says it does, does not work as a "reasonable" person would expect) - what Game is offering is the possibility of getting a refund within 30 days without specific reason if unopened in addition to any refund you might be entitled under your consumer rights for a defective, non-functional or misrepresented product.

      I suggest you check the Trading Standards website to learn more about your rights as a consumer. You'll find that there are a lot of rights that you have as a buyer, which of course, sellers will never tell you about.

      PS: I learned all of this because at some point I had my own company selling products online - so I read all about the rights my customers had ... and about the rights I had as a seller.

  3. A store? What's that? by ledow · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I haven't bought anything in a real store for ages, PC-games-wise. Why bother? All they stock is the expensive shit and anything older than 3 months is in the "Pre-owned", scratched-to-death pile and still costs 2/3rds of its original price. Plus a lot of PC gear can't be played second-hand anyway (and not because of Steam but because of other DRM) so there is no "cheap" game available in those shops.

    I just order a retail box online (rare anyway) or I just buy from Steam or GOG. Stop charging me £60+ for a game that'll last a couple of hours and start stocking things that sell. Steam make a killing by selling things like PopCap games, World of Goo, Altitude, etc. - I never, ever see those in the shops and if I do, it's on a shelf in a big department store, not in the "games" store. You aren't complaining about XBox Live or PSN, so you can't really complain about Steam either. The fact is, though, that anything you do stock in my price range I'm more likely to be buying it online - quicker, cheaper, easier.

    Give it up - either charge sensible prices, increase your stock range to appeal to customers or damn well concentrate on games console where you make an absolute FORTUNE.

  4. Irony...given the used game article by Maxo-Texas · · Score: 4, Insightful

    A couple months ago we heard how game stores were using used games to cut the publishers out of the revenue stream for a game. They were buying back games for $10 and reselling them for $45 and pocketing 100% of the $35.

    There was a great brouhaha.

    Now the return shot. Game publishers intent to cut game stores out of the first sale AND not publish any physical copies to resale.

    --
    She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
  5. Strange by lennier1 · · Score: 4, Funny

    Why do I get the feeling they'll still find a way to somehow blame this on piracy?

  6. All the wrong reason by wjousts · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Although they are doing it for all the wrong reasons, I applaud any effort to stop this Steam juggernaut from becoming the de facto DRM monopoly and the single point-of-failure for entire game collections. It's just not healthy.

    One day Steam will go dark, and then you won't be able to reinstall any of those games.

    Footnote: "blah, blah, blah,...but they said they'd release a patch....blah, blah, blah". Please show me the legally binding clause in the Steam TOS that guarantees that.

  7. Also, try gamersgate com instead of steam by unity100 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    they dont force onto you a restricting client, you never have any issues with modding the games or patches, and most of the games are drm free even.

  8. Depends on the game and your perspective by Sycraft-fu · · Score: 5, Informative

    So as a user, Steam offers some value:

    1) You don't have to worry about losing your DVD. Once registered with Steam, the game is on your account and can always be redownloaded. If you lose the DVD, no problem, just download it again (Steam will also allow you to create a new backup DVD, if you wish).

    2) For games with an online component that make use of Steam's services properly, Steam can handle aspects of match making, such as allowing you to join a server your friends are playing on. The game has to be designed to use it, of course, but the service is provided. Also in all games it provides IM communication with your friends, that functions as an overlay that does not interfere with the game.

    3) Likewise Steam allows for small amounts of data to be saved to the Steam Cloud. Things like save games, keyboard mapping, and so on can be saved meaning that when you go to another computer, that all follows you.

    4) Steam provides globally viewable achievements. Maybe you think that is silly, but people love achievements. It provides and easy interface so games can grant them, and people can see and share them. Achievements are a massively popular part of XBL, and Steam is a way to get that on PCs.

    Now from the publisher's perspective, Steam provides two benefits:

    1) Steam stops used game sales. Once a game is activated with a Steam account it may never be sold or transferred. So buying a game on Steam is forever. Once you enter the code for install, that game is yours now and you cannot sell it. Publishers dislike the used market, of course.

    2) Steam, or rather Steamworks, is a free, fairly effective, DRM. Steam allows you to use their DRM at no charge, only requirement being your game must be available through Steam. You can sell it other ways too, you just have to allow them to sell it on Steam. For that you get no cost DRM (most DRM solutions are rather expensive) that does a good job of stopping casual game sharing. A normal user can't just copy a game for a friend, it won't work. The warez groups still crack it, as with any DRM, but it stops the casual stuff just like other DRM and doesn't cost anything to do it. Also because Steamworks is a transparent part of Steam many users do not find it objectionable, since they like Steam.

    So there you go. Now please, please don't get all bitchy and whiny and point out that the publisher's stuff isn't a value to you. I know that. Like I said, what the value is depends on who you are talking about. I am showing you why they want Steam, why you might want Steam, and so on. I am not advocating it, I am just showing you the reasons that some players like it, and the reasons some publishers like it.