Debt Collectors Using Facebook To Embarrass Those Who Owe

Not even the tranquility of FarmVille can save you from the long arm of debt collectors. Melanie Beacham says that a collector from MarkOne Financial contacted her relatives about her past due car note via Facebook. She is filing suit alleging that the company is harassing her family. Tampa based consumer attorney Billy Howard of Morgan & Morgan says, "Now Facebook does a debt collectors work for them. Now it's not only family members, it's all of your associates. It's a very powerful tool for debt collectors to use."

Comments

I'm Pretty Sure That's Illegal

[eldavojohn]

I know collection debt law Is hazy as it varies from state to state and sometimes even has caveats internal to cities themselves but I thought there was a Fair Debt Collection Practices Act to protect consumers from crap just like this. I'm not a lawyer and Wikipedia's not exactly the foremost authority on the law but:

Communication with third parties: revealing or discussing the nature of debts with third parties (other than the consumer's spouse or attorney) (Collection agencies are allowed to contact neighbors or co-workers but only to obtain location information; disreputable agencies often harass debtors with a "block party" or "office party" where they contact multiple neighbors or co-workers telling them they need to reach the debtor on an urgent matter.)

And if they posted something on your wall, that could fall under a number of these laws. Hell, if you consider 'Facebook' an embarrassing media:

Contact by embarrassing media, such as communicating with a consumer regarding a debt by post card, or using any language or symbol, other than the debt collector’s address, on any envelope when communicating with a consumer by use of the mails or by telegram, except that a debt collector may use his business name if such name does not indicate that he is in the debt collection business

And if the debt collection's profile wasn't MARKONE DEBT COLLECTOR I'd be looking at that sort of shadiness as well.

Having been the subject of a mysterious $180 debt collection put on my credit report over six years after they allege it happened in 2003 with no attempts to contact me until two months ago, I implore this woman to seek more than just a court order against MarkOne but instead to get the law amended now that social network websites are prevalent. They are a new form of contact medium that exposes far more information than the phone book and the current laws should apply or be updated minimally to reflect this.

If you're wondering about my $180, I contacted them immediately. After getting all my current information so they could commence harassment, they told me to log onto some third party site and contest it. I did. Three weeks later I got a judgment: REMAINS. I was informed that, short of litigious action, that was the extent of my rights in that situation.

Re:I'm Pretty Sure That's Illegal

[clone53421]

If you're wondering about my $180, I contacted them immediately. After getting all my current information so they could commence harassment, they told me to log onto some third party site and contest it. I did. Three weeks later I got a judgment: REMAINS. I was informed that, short of litigious action, that was the extent of my rights in that situation.

I had my own encounter with debt collectors after some medical stuff (it’s nearly impossible to keep all those bills straight – you get the bill from the emergency room. and the hospital. and the doctor. and the weekend doctor. and ... they can’t combine them to make it simple, apparently).

Don’t talk to the debt collectors. Run like hell. They don’t care about you. They just care about the commission they get.

Find out who owns the debt and how to contact them. The collection agency has to tell you this. Contact them. Cut the debt collector out of the loop completely. And I do mean completely. Deal directly with the party who claims that you owe them something; once you settle the account with them, they will notify their debt collector that the debt has been canceled.

In my case it was a bill I’d overlooked; in your case, it might just be a mistake somewhere. But you’ll find out a hell of a lot more from whoever hired the debt collection agency than you’ll find out from the collection agency itself.

Re:I'm Pretty Sure That's Illegal

[StormReaver]

1) When the debt collector calls, find out whom they are representing.

2) Tell the debt collector to not call back, as you will deal only with the original creditor. Debt collectors usually get paid for debts they successfully collect. If they don't collect on behalf of the original creditor, they probably won't get paid at all. If you feed the dogs, they'll never die.

3) The debt collector will try to convince you that you must pay the debt to them. This is usually false. Unless the debt collector has bought the debt from the original creditor, you don't owe them a dime. Tell them to fuck off, and then deal directly with the creditor (assuming you want to pay the debt at all).

Many years ago, someone in my family got into a stupid debt situation with his college loans. The debt collector kept pestering him via phone, usually resulting in loud yelling heard throughout the house.

Having had enough yelling over the course of a week, I took the next call. I got the name of the creditor from the debt collector, and told him not to call again; I was going to pay the bill for the family member, and was going to pay the college directly.

The debt collector said that I had to pay them, and I told him that I did not. I said I have to pay the college, not some piss-ant with a attitude problem. After a little back and forth, I told him to piss off and never call back. I said that if he called me, I would file a Fair Debt Collection Practices Act complaint against him and his company.

I paid the debt to the college, and never heard back from the debt collector.

Re:I'm Pretty Sure That's Illegal

[Foobar of Borg]

Here is a unique concept: Pay your bills so your debt doesn't get sold and you don't get called by deb collectors. Oh, and the original debtors generally SELL THE DEBT, so the person who owns the debt is the collection agency.

You know, I've had debt collectors harass me on three separate occasions. You know how many times I actually owed the debt? Zero. And I never paid any of them a penny. The entities accusing me of owing them money were wrong and trying to fish for money.

So, here is a unique concept. Go fuck yourself and stop assuming everyone is guilty until proven innocent.

Re:Easy Solution

[cobrausn]

A. Pay your debts
B. Go to your account settings in Facebook so that people can't mine all this information about you. Pass this tip along to your family and friends.

C. Delete Facebook Account.

Personally

[Anrego]

I think this style of approach should be perfectly allowable, but it should be regulated because one can obviously go too far. Not sure what form this regulation would take.. maybe some kind of government run website where people not paying their bills are listed.

Personally on the whole financial debt/credit issue.. I think both sides need a good dose of reality.

You have banks which specifically target and hope for people to get into crippling debt, because this is how they make their money.

You have consumers who go through credit cards like candy.. and even when the bills and creditors are calling, still think nothing of getting a new credit card and buying a new computer they don't really need.

You have bancruptcy as (or atleast percieved) an "easy out".

And you have collections agencies literally driving some to suicide.

And yes, I know people get into debt for reasons beyond their control. Illness probably being the big one. But I think if you live beyond your means for no other reason than you can.. then you get what you've got coming when debt collectors pull this shit.

Re:Personally

[Anrego]

Quick addendum:

Here's a simple trick I use when I am tempted to spend money - I just buy stocks instead.

I actually do the same thing. Except instead of stocks I move it into my retirement savings. Once it's in there, it's a hassle to get it back out. I generally do this shortly after getting paid. If it's not there.. I'm not tempted to use it!

That said, I think it's important to spend money on stuff that brings you happiness _right now_. Those stocks or my savings are useless if I get hit by a ostritch or something. As long as it's within your means and you are putting away for later.. dropping some money on something you didn't really need is ok once in a while.

Re:Personally

[bjourne]

I'd say that at any point in your life, you shouldn't have more than 5% of your annual income in debt. You don't need that brand new car -- you can buy something affordable, and pay cash. I know buying a home is the "American dream", but how about saving up for it, managing your finances well and buying something you can afford? Or -- strange as this may sound -- renting one for life because you do not make enough to buy one. No one is entitled to anything. Here's a simple trick I use when I am tempted to spend money - I just buy stocks instead. So, if I see a nice jacket that I like that costs $200, I just buy stocks for $200 instead. So, now I'm out of my discretionary spending, and I just invested more money. Happiness all around.

You buy stocks instead of clothes? Because you think everyday people waste their money on useless junk, like you? Not everyone can be a fortunate son like you. Your numbers are so out of touch with reality it isn't even funny. You can't buy a home anywhere in the world without incurring a debt that is many times your yearly salary. In my case, it was 5 times it because I'm making fairly good money and the apartment is small. In basically every city in the whole world there is a shortage of rentable apartments. No one is asking for a condo in downtown manhattan, just two rooms in some far out suburb. It is still hard to get. Then you have student loans. Most of us didn't have a college fund because our parents didn't have enough money to save anything. Unless you already are rich, there is no way in hell you can live a decent life without having more than 5% of your income in debt.

Re:Personally

[Anonymous Coward]

Of course, you suppose anybody able to pay rent is also able to also amass a 20% downpayment while paying it, and that owning is for everybody.

I see you are fairly acquainted with reality. When your parents stop paying, you will see money differently.

Re:So pay your bills

[Anonymous Coward]

You do know they can't reply if the modded? or did something change?

Anyways, ti's not that simple and you know it. You were probably marked troll because you are making a trollish statement.

There can be many, many reason whys someone doesn't pay there bills. For example, after the .com bust, I was out of work for a number of months, and yes some bill went unpaid for a while. People have unexpected medical expenses and life changes. There are perfectly valid reasons for not paying a debt. But you went for the troll response.

If YOU want MORE READ THIS !!

[Anonymous Coward]

Ever since last week's rumors began about the new Facebook e-mail system supposedly designed to kill Gmail, Hotmail and Yahoo! Mail, I began to wonder why I'm not more enamored with the service. And now I think I know why. I see Facebook as the next iteration of AOL.

I was never a huge fan of AOL once the Internet came along. It had its moments, yes, back when the competition was BBS systems and peer-to-peer download sites. But once dial-up went away, the service began to fall apart and never fully modernized. If it could have modernized, it would be exactly like Facebook.

Facebook offers a closed experience much like AOL; it's comfortable place people go and check in. All that was ever missing from Facebook to make the relation more obvious was e-mail and a deep voice saying "You've got mail."

In this analogy, MySpace is actually Compuserve. Myspace is a little rougher edged than Facebook, just as Compuserve was a rougher edged version of AOL.

When the Internet came along, there was a lot of denial regarding the future of these services, and they managed to stay afloat by becoming conduits into the Internet when they should have been conduits from the Internet. The model was backwards.

Eventually, AOL bought Compuserve, and right at the peak of its popularity, it managed to merge with Time-Warner before its long slide to marginalization.

Facebook is AOL II. Only it began where AOL left off. If Facebook decides to buy MySpace sometime in the future, the analogy would be perfect.

In the end, AOL was stopped by the invention of the World Wide Web. And it took six or seven years before anyone noticed that the Internet gave you everything AOL gave you, only for free.

What's interesting to me about Facebook is that the user paradigm is skewed to be user-centric rather than Facebook-centric. Or so it seems. Everyone has their own virtual website with everything is centered around it. MySpace also uses this model. This was pioneered by LiveJournal, from what I can tell, but was taken to the extreme by MySpace then perfected by Facebook.

It was a different era when AOL was around, and this inside-out concept was never considered. The MySpace/Facebook idea is also different from the vanity pages and Geocities concepts because it's more like a gated community (like LiveJournal) than just tract homes (Geocities).

I was never sure that any of these folks actually knew what they were doing, but instead thought they were flying by their seat of their pants. Seeing that it has taken so long to add the email paradigm just confirms it my assumtion. Even the name "Face" "Book" is moronic, although I've never heard anyone point that out.

In other words, LiveJournal, MySpace, and Facebook are all sitting ducks for a genuine visionary who can take this to the next level. I sure hope Facebook isn't the end of the lineage. And since it took so long to bury AOL once the process began, we can expect the same with Facebook, but in the meantime, we'll just keep hearing more and more and more about Facebook in the years ahead. Ugh

Re:So pay your bills

[JWW]

Would this persons situation NOT have been prevented by not simply paying their bills?

1) Erroneous attribution of a debt to you that is not your debt.

2) An error by the company you paid your bill to, making them think you haven't paid when you actually have.

3) Mail/On-line banking/transaction problems

4) Recordkeeping errors at billing company or debt collection company

5) A scam.

There, FIVE things that could get you calls from debt collectors when you pay your bills on time.

I've personally experienced the second one where the company cashed my payment check and did not credit it to my account.
The actually acknowledged that my check was cashed, but still demanded that I pay them again!!! I contacted the Attorney General for my state and they convinced them to stop calling.

Suffice it to say, simply paying your bills does not necessarily keep collectors at bay.

Re:So pay your bills

[scubamage]

Again, speaking from my own experience a few phone calls/faxes of proof of payment has fixed any issues I've encountered. (1) can be provided if you present a utility bill for your current location, and if they call more than 3x in one month you can press charges for harassment. (2,3,4) can be solved by providing proof of payment, and if the issue is pressed, I send them a copy of my proof of payment and an invoice for my contractor hours based on the time they waste, as well as a notice that they will be sent to collections if they continue to waste my time. (5) Scams nothing will protect you from, even the law. Its not a perfect solution, but these have worked for myself and my family. Harder to avoid was when a prior inhabitant at my address had a warrant out for his arrest; sheriffs don't accept proof of payment :)

Re:So pay your bills

[darth dickinson]

...and if they call more than 3x in one month you can press charges for harassment...

Hell, if that was true half the debt collectors out there would be out of business. In a past life, I had some calling three times a day.

Re:Easy Solution

[Obfuscant]

I like Facebook because it makes it easy for me to keep in touch with family I wouldn't otherwise have a lot of contact with.

Yes, email is SUCH a hard concept to master.

Why would I want to delete my account?

I don't know. Maybe because it opens you up to publishing personal and private data in an essentially public medium?

Maybe I should get rid of my phone, and Internet service, and any kind of contact information while I'm at it?

If you can't handle email, then yes, maybe.

Re:Easy Solution

[DaFallus]

Ok, please point me to a service where I can search for people's email address by name or location...

People obviously prefer Facebook over regular old email for a reason. Just because you don't use or even like a particular service doesn't make you any less of a condescending asshole when you completely write them all off as morons because they don't see things your way.

Re:Easy Solution

[PitaBred]

Don't be stupid.

Email is not a hard concept to master, but it's a push communication. Facebook is pull. If I want to look at everyone's pictures I can. Otherwise I can ignore them without having to download or manage them in any way from my end.

Facebook may open my personal and private data on a public medium, but guess what... I choose what to put on there. I understand completely that it's a public medium, and I don't really care. Not for the stuff I post. But I am aware of that... if I wasn't, well, that'd be another issue.

The point here is that you're just pissed off at Facebook for... well, I don't know why. Did Mark Zuckerberg kick your dog or something? And you're advocating that we keep riding our damn horses because they work, instead of moving on to cars or trains. Sure, my car won't come when I call it, or be fueled by grass, but the benefits of a car over a horse are obvious for anyone that's ever dealt with both.

Same with Facebook and email. Get over yourself.