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Combat Vets On CoD: Black Ops, Medal of Honor Taliban

An anonymous reader writes "Thom 'SSGTRAN' Tran, seen in the Call of Duty: Black Ops live action trailer and in the game as the NVA multiplayer character, gets interviewed and talks about Medal of Honor's Taliban drama. '... to me, it's a non-issue. This is Hollywood. This is entertainment. There has to be a bad guy if there's going to be a good guy. It's that simple. Regardless of whether you call them — "Taliban" or "Op For" — you're looking at the same thing. They're the bad guys.'" Gamasutra published a related story about military simulation games from the perspective of black ops veteran and awesome-name-contest winner Wolfgang Hammersmith. "In his view, all gunfights are a series of ordered and logical decisions; when he explains it to me, I can sense him performing mental math, brain exercise, the kind that appeals to gamers and game designers. Precise skill, calculated reaction. Combat operations and pistolcraft are the man's life's work."

14 of 93 comments (clear)

  1. Random thoughts on those two games by RogueyWon · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I've played through the campaigns in both MoH and Black Ops. I'm not quite sure why I did; I was pretty sure in advance that I wouldn't like them. I'm not a great fan of the "gated corridor" school of level design that the Call of Duty series has promoted and I feel like I've seen pretty much every possible variation on their big "set piece" scenes by now. Indeed, having completed both of them, it's hard to manage more than a "meh".

    MoH is a strange game, at least partially, I suspect, because of how the developers were trying to skirt around the "taste" issue. It seems to alternate between the kind of po-faced faux-seriousness that made me wonder whether I was supposed to be saluting my monitor, and "yay, quad bike level". The weird thing is that this ended up creeping me out rather more than a straightforward treatment of the same material would have.

    The game clearly has aspirations to be the kind of semi-serious treatment of contemporary conflicts that we see in some movies, but it falls short because of the fact that... well... it's an action game pitched at a fairly low common denominator in terms of its player base. It's hard to square serious reflections on war with mowing down vast waves of infinitely respawning Taliban with a big machinegun. In fact, while I generally regard MoH as too silly to be offensive, the one area in which it does skirt close to crossing a line, I felt, was in portraying the Taliban as braindead grunts who charge in their hundreds into a hail of machinegun fire. That's seriously underestimating and trivialising the task that our actual armed forces have to do in Afghanistan.

    Black Ops is a different kettle of fish entirely, in that it accepts its own ridiculousness from the outset. It's basically just a pastiche of cold war conspiracy theories and Boy's Own adventure stories which, despite some graphic content that's not for the squeamish, is unlikely to ever cross the line into actually offensive (well, apart from the whole Cuba issue, but I confess to having just found that funny). It put me in mind of the Roger Moore era James Bond movies; The Spy Who Loved Me and so on, mixed with some of the more famous scenes from Vietnam movies like The Deer Hunter and Full Metal Jacket.

    I don't think it even aims for historical accuracy. Guns show up in the campaign that shouldn't have existed until years later. In the context of some of the howlers that Black Ops throws into the mix with gleeful abandon, I don't think that a few errors in the poster are really worth noting.

    As a final note, I enjoyed Black Ops more than MoH (in so far as I enjoyed either, given how constrained the gameplay is). A cheerfully unrealistic game is always going to be more fun than a game which would like to be realistic but fails spectacularly. I think MoH presents a pretty good case that videogames aren't likely to be able to do serious treatments of current wars. But then, maybe it's just the genre? Would a suvival-horror based game, or a small-squad RTS (a la Dawn of War 2) have more luck?

    1. Re:Random thoughts on those two games by biryokumaru · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I think MoH presents a pretty good case that videogames aren't likely to be able to do serious treatments of current wars. But then, maybe it's just the genre? Would a suvival-horror based game, or a small-squad RTS (a la Dawn of War 2) have more luck?

      MoH can't be a serious treatment of a current war in the same way that Hollywood can no longer produce ground breaking cinema. They're both subject to a cookie cutter creation method that stifles any innovation that isn't purely technical. I can absolutely guarantee that there are games no one has ever heard of that do a spectacular job of talking about war. The problem is, no multi billion dollar corporation will ever produce them.

      One of the many things capitalism has a vastly negative effect on is art, and if MoH is a good case for any argument, it's that one.

      --
      When you're afraid to download music illegally in your own home, then the terrorists have won!
    2. Re:Random thoughts on those two games by Pojut · · Score: 3, Insightful

      One of the many things capitalism has a vastly negative effect on is art,

      Usually.

      Art + Capitalism = a product or "brand".

    3. Re:Random thoughts on those two games by js3 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I played the campaign because I like to sit in my couch and shoot stuff. That's why we buy video games, nothing more, nothing less.

      --
      did you forget to take your meds?
    4. Re:Random thoughts on those two games by Kelbear · · Score: 3, Interesting

      http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/extra-credits/2414-Facing-Controversy

      This link contains a discussion on gaming controversy, and provides a detailed look at what happened to Six Days in Fallujah.

    5. Re:Random thoughts on those two games by Xest · · Score: 2, Interesting

      "It's hard to square serious reflections on war with mowing down vast waves of infinitely respawning Taliban with a big machinegun."

      This is true, but on the same note, one of the things that ruined Black Ops for me was the fact that even in as a comical portrayal of the cold war the AI was just so bad it wasn't even fun- not only did it have the infinitely respawning hoardes mechanic, but your AI and their AI would just run right past each other literally bumping into each other without so much as flinching because the AI was possessed into pursuing the mission, and the enemy AI was possessed into pursuing you even though it hadn't yet seen you. That's before you factor in situations where the AI is firing at you a split second before you're even visible, such that on Veteran it's insta-death if you so much as turn the corner. This kind of AI as seen in Black Ops is the kind I'd expect to see from a high school AI project, not from what's now seen as the largest AAA release of the year by a major studio.

      For me MoH was the better game, it wasn't a serious portrayal of course, but it had the more mature, consistent storyline, it had far superior graphics throughout, the AI was at least passable. Black Ops was just a joke, bar the jungle levels the levels looked rather dated- especially Cuba, the storyline was terrible, the AI was horrendous, and Veteran difficulty, whilst I completed it as I have with every CoD, was just mind numbing rather than a fun challenge.

      For me CoD peaked with CoD4: Modern Warfare, since then it's got progressively worse, CoD5: WaW was pretty good but not quite MW, and MW2 was pretty poor (nuclear weapons in multiplayer, really? what 5 year old did they bring in to think that one up?), Black Ops is really the bottom of the pit for the series so far, compared to MW2 even the multiplayer looks to be severely lacking.

      MoH was at least a refreshing change in that the game modes in multiplayer, particularly Combat Mission was a nice addition over CoD's tired old skilless spray and prey fest, which is fun sometimes, but gets dull. The singleplayer graphics, playability, and storyline, was at least on par with CoD5: WaW but was certainly no MW that's true.

      If anything my complaint with MoH is simply that there wasn't enough of it, there just wasn't enough content- the campaign was done in 5 hours, and the Combat Mission multiplayer mode had a miserable 3 maps only. At least with Black Ops you get a fuck ton of content I suppose, but it's the first time a CoD game has come out and rather than being hooked on the multiplayer constantly post-campaign I'm now busy playing games like Assassins Creed: Brotherhood and fucking around with EA's Create. MoH at least had me hooked to multiplayer for a few weeks, Black Ops I gave it a couple of evening's worth and just haven't wasted my time with it's monotony since. It's a shame, I think Activision's CoD studios know it's a guaranteed money spinner either way now, and just don't even bother to try hard anymore like they clearly did with MW and WaW.

      Here's hoping EA doesn't give up on the new style MoH franchise after one try and continues to build it up, if they improve it and CoD continues to decline they may well be producing their own MW quality game and giving Activision a reason to care about game quality again rather than rush shit out for the sake of getting their yearly release out there.

  2. Need more article links to balance this out. by naz404 · · Score: 3, Informative

    Summary doesn't mention that 3rd TFA says that Hammersmith just wrote a book about his experiences and is looking at gamers as a target audience and that the other article link is about a young gamer middle east veteran who was involved in the COD: Black Ops game production.

    What a one-sided post. :-/

  3. Bad guys and good guys by Nichotin · · Score: 4, Interesting

    This is Hollywood. This is entertainment. There has to be a bad guy if there's going to be a good guy. It's that simple.

    Is it? I just saw the Chan-wook Park movie Sympathy for Mr. Vengeance. It is a South Korean thriller movie. The main person are a deaf guy and his sister, who abducts a child who later dies in their custody. A lot of the movie is about the father, who seeks a very gruesome revenge. The main characters are certainly not good guys, and the way the father seeks revenge does not make him one either. This was very different from the good guy-bad guy-movies that I have seen from Hollywood, and is one of the few movies that have managed to stir up some strong feelings inside me while watching. All in all a very different movie (seen from a western perspective, I come from Norway). This is a movie, not a videogame, but I think the same could apply to a video game. The whole good guy-bad guy-thing should not be written in stone, and perhaps many game developers should think of new dynamics instead of having a very clearly defined good guy (often played by you) and clearly defined bad guys.

    1. Re:Bad guys and good guys by 1u3hr · · Score: 3, Insightful
      In your example, you talk about all being bad guys, but the rule is "There has to be a bad guy if there's going to be a good guy." Know any example of everybody being good guys?

      Most porn movies. Many medical dramas. Survival drama : shipwreck (eg Cast Away, Perfect Storm), space wreck (Apollo 13). Rom-com (Sleepless in Seattle -- continuing the Tom Hanks theme). Biopics of explorers, artists, musicians, teachers, nuns ... I could go on.

    2. Re:Bad guys and good guys by grumbel · · Score: 2, Informative

      Know any example of everybody being good guys?

      The movie '1968 Tunnel Rats' was pretty good in that aspect, portraying both sides of the war, without having either one as the bad guys. Just normal people killing each other.

    3. Re:Bad guys and good guys by tophermeyer · · Score: 2, Insightful

      There are always antagonists. These aren't always people, but there is always something that the protagonists are set against. That's what makes a compelling narrative. i.e. Tom Hanks vs. abandonment, isolation, and loneliness (respectively).

      A narrative can exist without a "bad guy" embodied by a person. But stories need an antagonist. Otherwise there is action and thus no story to tell. Biopics and adult films fill separate niches that happen to use the same medium.

  4. Re:ugh...this crap again? by icebraining · · Score: 2, Informative

    It was banned because of the Nazi symbols, which are prohibited in German law, which was instituted by the Allied occupant forces right after WWII.

    In Wolfenstein:ET you could play German soldiers but it wasn't banned, because they use a different flag (although there were mods to put the Nazi flag instead).

  5. Wait... So let me get this straight by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Creating a series of games where you star as a member of an invading army in a war of dubious legality mowing down hordes of brown people is not offensive to anyone.

    Having a level in said game that allows you to play as aforementioned brown person is however completely indefensible.

    That's the story according to our "free and unbiased" media. This level of adherance to state/miliary propaganda doctrine is normally only achievable through extreme violence. Seriously, the media coverage on this "controversy" is stuff that pravda would have been proud of.

  6. The real Taliban smell a lot worse by elrous0 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Any simulator that wants to account for what real military life needs to include hour after hour of punishing boredom and tedium at some shithole base, living in 100 degree weather with no showers and nothing to do--broken up occasionally by several minutes of intense fear, where your life is at stake--then followed by several more days of mind-numbing boredom in a hellish environment.

    --
    SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.