The DIY Car Computer vs. the iPad

Julie188 writes "Auto dealers are selling infotainment systems at a nice fat profit, but if you know your way around a motherboard and power supply you can rip out your car stereo and replace it with a do-it-yourself touchscreen PC, complete with DVD, GPS, TV, Bluetooth, Wi-Fi, MP3, and Internet surfing. The question is, is that even worth the bother? Or is it better to bolt a mount into the car for an iPad or a Galaxy tablet and call it good?"

Comments

there is something called voiding a warranty

[alen]

most people who buy cars like to keep their warranty

and what about cost vs a $500 iPad?

Re:there is something called voiding a warranty

[Anonymous Coward]

how the hell does replacing the radio void the warranty?

Re:there is something called voiding a warranty

[drunkennewfiemidget]

Car companies have to be able to prove that any modification you made directly lead to the failure of any part before they can deny warranty coverage.

Re:there is something called voiding a warranty

[Anonymous Coward]

Since when does installing audio/video equipment (stereo/CD/DVD/etc) void a car's warranty?

Re:there is something called voiding a warranty

[Anonymous Coward]

Your warranty won't be voided by removing the radio system.

At least, not the important parts, like your transmission or the engine. So you lose the warranty on the radio, you weren't planning to use it anyway.

Check the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act

Re:there is something called voiding a warranty

[snookerhog]

A couple years ago, I took apart the stereo of my Volvo V70 to install an aftermarket iPod connection. Volvo unit was much crappier and more expensive, so I got a different one and installed it myself. For some STUPID reason, some of the wiring for the SRS somehow connects through the stereo. So by taking the stereo out to plug in the iPod connector to the CD changer port, I tripped some SRS alarm in the system that told me there was a problem with the Airbag system. The Volvo dealer (who I was obviously trying to avoid) told me that they were required by law to inspect the whole system before they could reset the mysterious sensor that I apparently tripped. They also charged me like $150 for this "service" which obviously negated any DIY savings.

Re:there is something called voiding a warranty

[xs650]

If they even think (or just want to be dick heads) your modification lead to a failure they can deny warranty coverage for that particular problem. If you can convince a court or arbitrators that your widget didn't cause the problem, then they will cover the repair of their failed part.

Re:there is something called voiding a warranty

[poetmatt]

most people also like to have cars that don't have a "please steal me" on the inside in the form of a giant touchscreen.

So yes, an ipad or a galaxy tab is probably a much better option.

Re:there is something called voiding a warranty

[Pojut]

Check the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act

This. We had a couple copies of it in our waiting room back when I was an auto tech. We also had the portions most people would be interested in hanging on the wall, printed up on a 36"x24" poster.

Re:there is something called voiding a warranty

[Jah-Wren Ryel]

most people who buy cars like to keep their warranty

Back in 1975, when congress was owned by a wider variety of corporations, they passed the Magnuson-Moss Act to prevent exactly those kinds of shenanigans.

Re:there is something called voiding a warranty

[somersault]

My car's stereo head unit cost about the same as an iPad, but only has a 7" resistive touchscreen.. of course it does have nicer sound quality and EQ options than an iPad..

Re:there is something called voiding a warranty

[swb]

Volvo stereos are deeply integrated into the car system. My 2007 S80's stereo display and buttons are also used for informational display (park assist, climate control) and for accessing the car menu system.

I had the dealer add the Volvo iPod connector* and it was pretty insane what had to be done to make it work (download software into main computer to authorize iPod connector on car computer bus, along with a patch for my specific VIN series). I don't think you could replace the stereo on this car at all without fucking the car to the point where it wouldn't run.

I have the Dynaudio package and while I wouldn't want another stereo from a sound perspective, I wouldn't mind a touchscreen display instead with GPS and better iPod menu navigation.

* I think the iPod integration is better with '07 and up models. While it isn't cheap, I get complete song/artist/playlist navigation on-screen. There is some brain damage (navigation is slow, browsing to an artist and then album and then playing a song "resets" browsing back to the top of the hierarchy, which makes song-surfing frustrating). But it beats the crap out of the "integration" I've seen on a late-model Mercedes CLK230.

Re:there is something called voiding a warranty

[eric2hill]

Looks like you may have changed the stereo out before disconnecting power which is a Bad Idea (TM) when installing new car stereos. Agreed that it's stupid to require a dealer visit to reset a light, though.

Re:there is something called voiding a warranty

[Charliemopps]

OMG YOUR RIGHT! I Just got chrome rims my warenty is ruined! ;-)

Re:there is something called voiding a warranty

[cawpin]

This needs to be rated higher than the parent post. THIS ONE is correct, the parent is not. Only the parts you remove or modify lose their warranty coverage, nothing else.

Re:there is something called voiding a warranty

[need4mospd]

Many people also spend thousands of dollars on their car per year in performance parts and accessories.

Having the cool factor of "an ipad in my dash" is way better than some lame warranty.

Re:there is something called voiding a warranty

[MBCook]

On the other hand, I wanted to put a iPod connection in my 2001 Honda Odyssey. Honda made no such part, so I bought an aftermarket one. I took it to the dealership and after I swore up and down that I understood it was an aftermarket part and they couldn't support it or be liable if it broke my stereo, they were glad to put it in for me for the cost of labor. They did a great job, I've been using it for about 5 years.

I was glad to do it. I'd like to try doing it myself, but the way may dash is designed (due to a nav unit) I would have literally had to take off about 1/3 or 1/2 of the dash (one BIG piece) to be able to get to the back of the stereo. That was a big job and would have given me a big opportunity to mar or crack the plastic, which I didn't want to do.

Re:there is something called voiding a warranty

[shadowfaxcrx]

I think the point was that in this case, for whatever reason, the SRS system was hooked into the car stereo wiring, and so when he messed with the wiring to install the new equipment, he pissed off the SRS system. Since his actions caused the SRS issue, it wouldn't fall under warranty coverage.

Re:there is something called voiding a warranty

[JohnBailey]

Since when does installing audio/video equipment (stereo/CD/DVD/etc) void a car's warranty?

Since customers became consumers. Sheep are not that bright, and easily frightened.

Re:there is something called voiding a warranty

[sumdumass]

Since a lot of them started becoming interface units with the on board computer and diagnostic systems including emissions controls and such.

Yes, instead of making them a read out terminal with simple input switches like a computer keyboard or mouse, they have started becoming "integrated controller units" that communicate and process date itself.

Re:there is something called voiding a warranty

[countertrolling]

I'm gonna bolt my $500 iPad into my Galaxy 500

Re:there is something called voiding a warranty

[jrumney]

If it is true that the SRS system is hooked into the car stereo wiring then that is a design problem with the car, and very definitely should be covered by warranty and probably trigger a recall.

Re:there is something called voiding a warranty

[rrossman2]

Hate to tell you, but you could have done it yourself really easily:

Here's the steps:

1 Disconnect the negative battery terminal
to prevent an accidental short circuit.

2 Unclip the radio trim bezel (including the
climate control panel) and remove).
Remove (4) Phillips screws securing the
factory head unit and disconnect the
wiring.

And honestly step 1 is a bad idea if you're doing an add-on such as an iPod interface to the factory radio, as when you reconnect power the radio is going to ask for the unlock code, which most of the time if you're not the original owner with the card with the code requires you re-remove the radio, write down the serial number, and call the dealership and give them the serial number + vin number to get the unlock code. Just more of an annoyance than anything, and some dealerships require you to actually drive in so they can charge you $15 to get the code

Re:there is something called voiding a warranty

[rrossman2]

Yes, but so many newer cars use CAN networks to integrate a *LOT* of stuff. For example, on a 2007+ Chrysler you can pull VSS, e-brake status, reverse light, etc from the CAN wire behind the radio. It's all part of the network. So it *is* possible to have CAN conflicts when you use an after market adapter to actually install the new after market head unit. There's been times when the GM CAN interface (required to keep the key is in reminder, headlights are on reminder, and create an accessory power source) causes enough interference on the CAN network that a remote start interface (idatalink for example) can't capture the car's VIN and platform information on the CAN network. Disconnect the radio interface adapter and the remote start interface can then get the required information for it to register the car and platform and work. Now granted the CAN has some fault tolerance built in, but you could see how an error'ed interface could cause collisions or other interference on the CAN, just like what could happen to a regular hub ran network (even with priority packets).

Also, some cars such as the VW, the after market radio harnesses are pin for the amp turn on, which IS correct on SOME years of VW. Certain years and models that pin is actually tied into the diagnostic system, and when you feed +12V from the after market radio's amp turn on circuit, it causes fault codes. The owner takes it into the dealership, and they are unable to correctly read and clear the codes as that 12V feed is completely botching the system. It's a known thing to those who have worked in the mobile electronics field.

They can charge you for this as they should, since it's not the car's fault, and any damage to any CAN controller or device on the network that gets damaged they could easily blame on the interface, which there goes the warranty coverage for those parts.

Some cars are even more tightly integrated than others. Trust me, I've worked in that field for a long, long time now

Re:there is something called voiding a warranty

[Anonymous Coward]

They also charged me like $150 for this "service"

Good thing they didn't charge you actually $150. That would have been expensive.

Re:there is something called voiding a warranty

[RMH101]

Um, how about "No". Good luck with getting every major current manufacturer to recall and redesign every car they've made in the last 10 years at their own expense.

Re:there is something called voiding a warranty

[IronSight]

Sounds a bit like my 2001 Ford Taurus. An aftermarket car stereo (which was installed before I bought it, I don't listen to music in the car) ended up blowing out my a/c and heater controls (according to the guy at the repair shop). Apparently they were all tied together somehow and the car stereo was pulling more power than the stock causing some issues, ultimately burning out the controls.

Re:there is something called voiding a warranty

[drinkypoo]

You're full of shit, most manufacturers do not tie the stereo and SRS together. In fact, I'll be impressed if you can name another manufacturer not owned by the same company as Volvo which does it.

Re:there is something called voiding a warranty

[goose-incarnated]

sarcasm aside, new rims of a different size/profile/weight actually do void the warranty on the wheel bearings.

Re:there is something called voiding a warranty

[mcgrew]

My cars don't come with warranties. The last new car I bought was in 1984. Two months after I bought it, the alternator went out 80 miles from home. My then-wife had talked me into a new VW because "new cars are more dependable than old cars."

Why would I spend $10,000 on a little, underpowered, uncomfortable new car when I can buy a comfortable used car with a kickass stereo, power everything, with all the extras that cost three times as much new, for the same price?

Re:there is something called voiding a warranty

[shadowfaxcrx]

Acura. My 07 TL monitors the status of the SRS (and just about every other electronic system including the ECU) and displays it via the diagnostic function (that customers aren't supposed to know about or access) of the navi computer. It even allows you to perform manual system checks.

I read somewhere (I think it was here) that a modern car generally has more lines of code than the F22 fighter jet. They're incredibly complex, and systems you'd never think would have anything to do with each other are interconnected. The weirdest one on my car (that I know about anyway) is that the climate control is connected to the navigation system, so that it can monitor the angle of the sun and adjust each vent's output accordingly.

Re:there is something called voiding a warranty

[drinkypoo]

Perhaps I didn't use enough qualifiers. All OBD-II vehicles and some earlier ones can find out if the airbags have deployed. That's not the same thing as making the SRS dependent on the stereo.

Re:there is something called voiding a warranty

[shadowfaxcrx]

No, that's true, but when you allow the navigation computer (which is linked to the stereo) to monitor the SRS system, you by definition hook the systems together. That means that if you screw with the stereo, you might piss off the SRS monitoring system, which would trip the light.

The poster with the Volvo probably didn't actually damage anything - he probably just disconnected the wiring harness, which would have registered with the computer as a fault code since a module that's supposed to be hooked up suddenly wouldn't be. The dealer probably charged him to clear the fault code, which was caused by him, and therefore not covered by the warranty.

Re:there is something called voiding a warranty

[CAIMLAS]

The cartft.com example looks like it'll fit in a 'standard' double-depth car stereo dashboard hole.

In-vehicle panel parts are cheap and easy to replace. Take the original out (and set it in your garage) and put one in that you purchased online, if that's so goddamn almighty important to you.

And iPad? You'll get more functionality, hands down. Or, at the very least, you've got the option of functionality, should you decide to geek out. (iPad owners and the common person buying new vehicles typically do not care about these things: they're buying an official 'package', and if they want added features they'll get them from the official source.)

And then there are those of us who do not like buying new vehicles. They depreciate too quickly, they cost too much to begin with, and frankly, I don't want a vehicle that has pressure sensors in the spare tire. I'd much rather have a known-reliable vehicle from 15-20 years ago, that runs reliably, and has been updated with known-to-work-well efficiency technologies.

On a used vehicle, screwing something into the dash is not such a big deal.

But, please: if you're buying new vehicles, keep doing so. It means there's more variety for me to pick from.

Re:there is something called voiding a warranty

[cynyr]

And that all sounds like more ways to take away the ability for home mechanics to repair their cars...

Time to buy a "kit" car, one that all i have to do is get insurance and connect the grounding strap.

Fun?

[0racle]

Where is the fun in just buying an iPad?

Re:Fun?

[Stregano]

I have yet to figure that out

It depends.

[Anonymous Coward]

It depends. Do you want a patchwork solution (mount for ipad) or an integrated solution (computer with in-dash touchscreen)?

Depends on the use case you are going after

[jeffmeden]

Can it play regular CDs or DVDs? Can you easily plug a thumb drive into it or otherwise upload additional information without needing a fast network connection or another computer running inside the car? There are lots of things tablets *don't* do well yet. Cellphone docks for cars have been around a long time, they probably do everything you want (except having an extra large screen) and have the added benefit of being more portable (trust me you really don't want to leave your ipad inside your car unless your car never leaves your garage)...

So not surprisingly, the iPad/Galaxy Tab are nice (as are car computers, and traditional stereos) but it's all up to the user to say what's important and what's not.

Re:Depends on the use case you are going after

[shadowrat]

Can it play regular CDs or DVDs?

use physical media inside the car? I bet you have one of those cars with the hand crank in the front to start it as well.

Re:Depends on the use case you are going after

[houghi]

Cellphone docks? Are they still being installed? Buy a new phone and you need to reinstall it. Just use Bluetooth.

Re:Depends on the use case you are going after

[Tikkun]

Can it play regular CDs or DVDs?

Why would you want to? Ripping legacy CDs and DVDs is easier than lugging them around.

Can you easily plug a thumb drive into it

Why would you want to? I've already got much of my music library on my iPad. If I want/need different songs I can always sync different genius mixes before I go to bed.

As for video, shows (or iTunes U) I've already watched are deleted automatically after I watch them, allowing me to keep up with lots of video without having to put in much work (other than subscribing).

Don't give end users forks. They will invariably stick them in their eyes, blame you for the pain and demand that you find a way to make it feel like rainbows and sunshine.

Re:Depends on the use case you are going after

[Anonymous Coward]

Does a USB key count as "physical media"? If so, an iPad can't do that either. The iPad is the "cant do it" platform of the century!

Re:Depends on the use case you are going after

[Facegarden]

Can it play regular CDs or DVDs? Can you easily plug a thumb drive into it or otherwise upload additional information without needing a fast network connection or another computer running inside the car? There are lots of things tablets *don't* do well yet. Cellphone docks for cars have been around a long time, they probably do everything you want (except having an extra large screen) and have the added benefit of being more portable (trust me you really don't want to leave your ipad inside your car unless your car never leaves your garage)...

So not surprisingly, the iPad/Galaxy Tab are nice (as are car computers, and traditional stereos) but it's all up to the user to say what's important and what's not.

The new Dell Duo might work really well for this. It acts as either a tablet or a netbook, but with a much better hinge design than traditional convertibles, so it looks a lot nicer when in tablet mode. It also runs a touch friendly media skin by default when in tablet mode, which may (or may not) be nice for in car use. Then, with a well-designed dash dock, you could pop the thing out and use it as a regular windows 7 netbook (or keep using it as a tablet) when you needed to.

It would be cool to set up your system to just play all audio received from a bluetooth connection, so that the tablet wouldn't need to be hard wired to anything (except power).

Now I'm wanting to do this...

Re:Depends on the use case you are going after

[teachknowlegy]

My desire is a car radio that streams from my playlist of my media streaming server. Oh wait, I have that. I plug my phone into the stereo and listen to it via Orb! I don't need a PC in the car, I need an amplifier for my smartphone.

Re:Depends on the use case you are going after

[nazsco]

Now, where are the turn by turn GPS systems that I can run on Linux?

Re:Depends on the use case you are going after

[rrohbeck]

My car has an 8-Track you insensitive clod!

Re:Depends on the use case you are going after

[larppaxyz]

Well, it's hard to use GPS navigation software if phone is in your pocket.

Re:Depends on the use case you are going after

[cyclomedia]

My phone doubles as a GPS, and I have a fairly standard stereo unit that has a line in and usb port on the front. I have two USB sticks that live in the ashtray (AKA handy drawer, no smokers in my car). So get in, start car, insert USB stick, pick album, pick GPS destination, drive. What do you need a carputer for again?

Re:Depends on the use case you are going after

[Dan541]

What's a CD? I honestly don't think there is a single CD in my house.

You can boot from usb drives now.

Re:Depends on the use case you are going after

[jeffmeden]

That's all well and good, *if* you're married to your iPad. There are plenty of users (hundreds of millions in fact) that either lack the desire or the means to become attached to a large, non-pocketable gadget for the purposes of in-car entertainment. For them, clearly, a different solution is needed.

Why not...

[msauve]

just pay attention to the road, and drive?

(Although, I suppose many Slashdotters sit in their car in the driveway for a change of scenery from the basement in their parents house, so maybe the article is apropos)

Re:Why not...

[Lilith's Heart-shape]

just pay attention to the road, and drive?

The computer is a handy distraction for my wife, who would otherwise criticize my abilities as a driver despite not having a license herself. If she can instead distract herself with a game and let me drive in peace, then having an in-dash computer is better for my marriage.

Re:Why not...

[Hittman]

In the passenger seat my wife ceases being a friend and a lover and a wife and is magically transformed into a driver ed instructor. After many, shall we say, disagreements, we found a solution. Unless she's tired enough to take a nap, she drives whenever we go anywhere.

Re:Why not...

[corbettw]

So your wife is a harping shrew who complains until she gets her way, and you just sit quietly and wait for the tantrums to end. Go turn in your Man Card, immediately.

Re:Why not...

[Lilith's Heart-shape]

The last time my wife pissed me off by playing the driver's ed instructor, I just pulled over, pulled the keys out of the ignition, and dropped them in her lap. I then got out of the car, walked over to her side, and opened the door for her like a gentleman.

If you want it done your way, do it yourself. Life isn't Burger King.

Re:Why not...

[Anonymous Coward]

Another distraction for her would be to drive stick.

While you drive the car.

Re:Why not...

[Anonymous Coward]

.The computer is a handy distraction for my wife, who would otherwise criticize my abilities as a driver despite not having a license herself.

That's why God gave you five knuckles on your right hand.

Re:Why not...

[Anonymous Coward]

How was the couch?

Re:Why not...

[dgower2]

LMAO! One of the funniest posts I've seen here. "Man card"! HAHAHA

Re:Why not...

[Jah-Wren Ryel]

So your wife is a harping shrew who complains until she gets her way, and you just sit quietly and wait for the tantrums to end. Go turn in your Man Card, immediately.

In this case, the man won the fight. She just doesn't know it. Look at the end result and who is now doing all the work.

Re:Why not...

[Nocuous]

How well did you do in the separation agreement?
"Formal courtesy between husband and wife is even more important than it is between strangers." - RAH
Even that old sexist got a few of them right.

Re:Why not...

[rockNme2349]

That's boring, think of all the stuff you could do while...

hold on, I gotta change lanes...

Re:Why not...

[cerberusss]

The computer is a handy distraction for my wife, who would otherwise criticize my abilities as a driver despite not having a license herself.

This brings up haunted memories of my ex. What is it with women that they must criticize men on every corner of the street?

Re:Why not...

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm left handed and drive in the UK, you insensitive clod!

Re:Why not...

[Anonymous Coward]

Don't blame him, blame God!

Re:Why not...

[FerociousFerret]

hold on, I gotta change lanes, change the song, and answer the call waiting on my cell phone...

FTFY

Re:Why not...

[Lilith's Heart-shape]

I slept better on the couch, since she tends to hog the blankets.

Re:Why not...

[Lilith's Heart-shape]

Many women think men have to be controlled. Then again, many men think that men have to be controlled.

Re:Why not...

[Anonymous Coward]

yeah, but he won by using a woman's trick (let them have _your_ way). that's still not manly.

Re:Why not...

[mcgrew]

I see you've either never been married, or never been married for long.

Re:Why not...

[Bryan3000000]

If I could only achieve a similar result. As it is, my wife won't drive even when I'm falling asleep (though she prods me and offers) and often won't alert me to turns I'm missing (she insists that I might actually know where I'm trying to go). Sometimes, she doesn't even gasp when I almost kill us! Any suggestions on how I can get her to share at least _some_ of the work?

Same day use?

[SuperKendall]

Where is the fun in just buying an iPad?

When you can use video, music, and applications on it directly the same day of purchase?

If assembling the computer is fun for you then by all means that is part of the fun... but for most people the "Fun" part enters in when they start listening to music.

Re:Same day use?

[InsertWittyNameHere]

Here's a video of a guy velcroing his iPad to a bunch of different things including a car and a motorcycle. Fun indeed!

Re:Same day use?

[Chyeld]

For 'most' people who read Slashdot I would wager half the fun is building it, the other half is the bragging rights to having built it, and the remainder is towards actually using it.

And no I didn't make a math error in the above statement.

Re:Same day use?

[SuperKendall]

For 'most' people who read Slashdot I would wager half the fun is building it, the other half is the bragging rights to having built it, and the remainder is towards actually using it.

I can't help noting the number of digits in your ID, and have to note that was true about three years ago... I don't think so any longer.

Re:Same day use?

[Skynyrd]

I can't help noting the number of digits in your ID, and have to note that was true about three years ago... I don't think so any longer.

3 years? That's a lot of credit you're giving "kids" these days. ;)

Laughing, as our ID numbers are so close together.

Re:Same day use?

[Anonymous Coward]

the problem for you is that this site isn't really for most people, something you've failed to notice.

it's fine by me if you want to hand over your cash to a corporation that is patently evil; if you have that not-uncommon combination of technical ineptitude coupled with smug elitism, then fine.

the point is that mindless consumers like you should go to other websites where you're probably a bit more welcome. somewhere that you can share genius itunes recommendations perhaps?

Re:Same day use?

[Mordok-DestroyerOfWo]

Some of us kids still like to build things for ourselves instead of having everything given on a silver platter by Darth Jobs. Just sayin'

Re:Same day use?

[SuperKendall]

Some yes, but far fewer these days then there used to be. I'm not saying you don't exist, just that even on Slashdot Makers are not really the majority anymore.

And not all Apple users buy everything off the shelf either you know...

Re:Same day use?

[Mordok-DestroyerOfWo]

I agree with you 100% on both counts. I was a lurker long before I signed up for an actual account and have seen things change over the last several years. I realize it's not fair to generalize all Apple users into one camp, but it is difficult to argue that they are trying to instill a culture of "we'll do the thinking for you" to the average consumer.

Re:Same day use?

[rrohbeck]

Meh. Velcro? Just use the WheelMate.
http://www.amazon.com/AutoExec-WM-01-Wheelmate-Steering-Wheel/product-reviews/B000IZGIA8/ref=cm_cr_dp_all_summary?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1&sortBy=bySubmissionDateDescending

Re:Same day use?

[Anonymous Coward]

I agree :D

"When you can use video, music, and applications on it directly the same day of purchase?"........ (rolleyes...)

Are you sure you're on the right website superkendall?
You know you can do this as well on a homebuild computer (assembly 5-30 min (including coffe break), + 30 mins install OS (if you want a full os, otherwise 10 min for a fdisk + repartitioning + minimal 2.6 kernel + X ))...

I don't think you're very super.. kendall, not at all...

Re:Same day use?

[CAIMLAS]

"Delayed gratification" has a much better payoff than immediate gratification, though. "I did this myself" is much more satisfying than "look, I threw $700 at Apple".

Where is my Android powered headunit?

[Anonymous Coward]

I can currently stream music over bluetooth/usb but I'd really enjoy an Android powered headunit with a nice interface and high quality sound. I'm a little surprised the big guys like Pioneer are putting so much effort into their own interfaces.

Re:Where is my Android powered headunit?

[danbert8]

I have a Archos 5 Internet Tablet velcroed above the factory head unit hooked up via the Aux In port. Music, videos, games, GPS navigation, wifi, and hot swappable microSD card slot. About the only thing that sucks is the GPS software since most Android GPS programs rely on the cell data connection to retrieve maps, so I had to settle for the GPS program provided by Archos that installs to the internal storage (which is pretty much shit).

Re:Where is my Android powered headunit?

[brainboyz]

Checkout OsmAnd and Navit. Both are open source GPS programs for the Android. CoPilot is a similar, $30 app. I was looking into it for similar reasons (I hike a lot, which means traveling where cellphones don't work). Haven't actually had a chance to test them recently, but it's a start. The maps are pretty heavy for all of them, however, starting at about 2GB on the SD card and bloating towards 4-5 if you include all the extras (points of interest, etc).

Re:Where is my Android powered headunit?

[schwaang]

Ditto. I went looking for a replacement for the crappy nav Toyota offers for the Prius and was surprised that by now there isn't an Android HU available anywhere for any car.

What I mostly want is the ability to do the things that factory headunits already do, only better because the software is customizable. (As opposed to having a general purpose computer to play solitaire on at 80mph, like so many in this thread imagine.)

For one example, the 2010 Prius nav requires an expensive XM subscription for traffic data, map updates cost $200/yr, and it does a crappier job of routing around traffic and estimating arrival time than my 2-yr old $200 Garmin handheld with lifetime free traffic data. So I want to download Garmin or TomTom and run it instead of the crappy Toyota software.

For another example, the interface for playing iPod stuff totally blows IMHO. I'd like the option to change it or download a different interface, but I'm stuck with something designed for other brains.

Once you've used a factory unit and seen how much better it could be at its own job, you'll understand why there needs to be an Android headunit platform. Car makers can only provide a one-size-fits-all, lowest-common-denominator, long-lead-to-market, non-upgradable system that is a waste of potential. Its time they turned the job over to a wider market and leveraged all the programmers they don't have on their payrolls.

Re:Where is my Android powered headunit?

[tuxicle]

It may make sense to buy a chassis similar to the one in TFA, but install a TI OMAP evaluation board (or a BeagleBoard) inside, and figure out a way to get it running Android. Throw in a set of class-D amplifier modules and you'd have a rocking car audio system that beats the pants off any of the "big guys". Heck, screw the $$$s I sank on a Kenwood head unit last year, I might try this soon!

How clean does it look

[SuDZ]

I think the biggest thing that would stop me from wanting to do a full car PC or not is simple aesthetics. Does it look right? Does it look clean and stock? Am I spending half my commute troubleshooting my radio?

Theft

[ADRA]

I really wouldn't want to leave an iPad or anything like it in my car. If the unit looks flush and well protected by the dash, there's a much better chance that thieves won't want to dig into it. Does a stereo slot support 9-10"? I doubt it. Does it look like an iPad when a tief looks through your window? If so, expect a big broken window. Any extra cost for a manufacturer's integration is a lot better than having to constantly remove the unit from my car whenever I park my car in public.

At least with a self-built unit, you can make it look like its a manufacturer's unit, but you also need a way of syncing and updating the unit in a way that is simple and straight forward.

Re:Theft

[MobileTatsu-NJG]

Does it look like an iPad when a tief looks through your window?

Just put a Gateway 2000 sticker on it.

Re:Theft

[Yvan256]

And a "Windows ME" sticker next to the Gateway one.

Re:Theft

[Anonymous Coward]

In his post at the top of the screen Insert witty name here linked to a video of a guy velcroing his Ipad. The launch page for that video has another one of a new Scoche dash mounted Ipad holder charger and audio in jack which I assume is supposed to link in with the wiring behind the console. It's cool but there's no way you would catch me with one of those. Just an invitation to have my car broken into. Shoehornjob

Re:Theft

[ebuck]

Just put a Gateway 2000 sticker on it.

And a "Windows ME" sticker next to the Gateway one.

I guess you don't care about your vehicle's resale value.

Re:Theft

[Facegarden]

And a "Windows ME" sticker next to the Gateway one.

Or "Vista Capable".

Re:Theft

[Anonymous Coward]

Your mom supports 9-10".

Re:Theft

[mognuts5]

This is the first thing I thought of too. I think a good solution, not sure if they make them, would be like those Kensington locks. You can lock it to your car, put the key on your keychain, and then slide it in ur glove compartment. So no one sees it, and when you leave if say a valet* finds it, he can't get it.

* You do only give the valet your car key, and car key only right?

Re:Theft

[mini me]

I think I could cleanly fit an iPad in my dash if I removed the climate controls. One would just need to replace them with an interface to the iPad plus an app to make it usable. Unfortunately, the iPad is not a very good device to interface with.

CarPC = huge time waster

[Anonymous Coward]

Totally. I was about to go down the CarPC road (so to speak) when I bought my Droid phone last year. This thing does 90% of what I wanted in a CarPC and it only took 20 minutes to install a good mount plus a hardwired switched power line to an extra slot in the fuse box. Done. Now I have turn by turn nav, maps, voice recognition, internet, Slacker Radio, normal radio (streaming but can get local channels if I want), books via text to speech, and on and on.

Sure the CarPC can be fun as a hobby, but I know lots of guys who've spent hundreds of hours trying to get their crap to work half as good as my phone does.

Of course it's worth the bother!

[Slutticus]

'cause if there's one thing I need, it's the ability to check my facebook account in addition to checking email on my blackberry, fiddling with my radio, arguing with my wife and entering coordinates into my GPS.
While driving. Down the freeway at 80mi/hr.

Re:Of course it's worth the bother!

[cayenne8]

"'cause if there's one thing I need, it's the ability to check my facebook account in addition to checking email on my blackberry, fiddling with my radio, arguing with my wife and entering coordinates into my GPS.

While driving. Down the freeway at 80mi/hr."

Hey, and don't forget you can NOT spill your beer while doing this ALL st the same time!!

Re:Of course it's worth the bother!

[Quiet_Desperation]

cause if there's one thing I need, it's the ability to check my facebook account in addition to checking email on my blackberry, fiddling with my radio, arguing with my wife and entering coordinates into my GPS.

And in Hell, you fiddle with your GPS, check email with your radio, argue with your Blackberry and enter coordinates into your wife!

(rimshot)

Hey-yo!

(crickets)

Re:Of course it's worth the bother!

[ChefInnocent]

And threatening the kids to turn around while eating his Quadruple Whopper during whiteout conditions in a snow storm tailgating a semi looking for the next opportunity to pass.

Re:Of course it's worth the bother!

[Anonymous Coward]

Keep in mind, you're doing all these things... while on the LA Freeway.

Re:Of course it's worth the bother!

[Vegeta99]

Ever driven in a white-out?

Those bastards in the semis are PASSING because with 30 tons, they don't blow off the mostly-frozen road with a little gust of wind.

Re:Of course it's worth the bother!

[eepok]

So "8" mi/hr. ;)

Re:Of course it's worth the bother!

[ChefInnocent]

As a matter fact, yes. There is a blizzard warning in my area right now. Fortunately (or not), I'm at work instead of on the highway with those semis.

Re:Of course it's worth the bother!

[Dread_ed]

MINI is releasing a new system on their cars called "MINI Connected" that will make distractions and diversions like the ones you mention less detrimental to the driving experience.

You can read recent Facebook and Twitter posts, in a limited display format, or see your whole profile displayed while stopped. In addition, text-to-speech will read you the content of the pages while you drive. You can even update our status while driving from a set of premade responses that include specific information like outside temperature, vehicle speed, and even your location and destination if you have the GPS system. They might look something like "I am driving South on Kirby Dr to Mi Luna Restaurant at 45mph. The sunroof is open and it is 85 degrees out!"

Another neat feature is the ability to have SRS news feeds posted on the screen, again in a limited fashion while driving, but unrestriced while stoppped. Text-to-speech is also included with the SRS function so when you run across an interesting news headline you can have the MINI read you the news story in its entirety. There is even some talk of combining speech-to-text with text-to-speech for sending text messages while driving without having to take your eyes off the road.

Other neat features are included like web radio, Google local search, and the MINIMALISM Analyzer which uses its in depth knowledge of the car's real-time performace data to make suggestions designed to optimize fuel efficiency.

One of the best parts about MINI Connected is that the functionality is entirely controlled by the app on the iPhone. As new features are developed they are updated to the software in the phone and work immediately in the car without hardware upgrades or even a trip to the service shop. Even better is the thought of reverse engineering the interface and creating custom apps that will allow the owner to get exactly what they want from the system.

Blackberry and Droid apps are supposedly in the works as well. Personally, I can't wait to see it in action.

This is how it's done.

[shredluc]

Screw little double din plug in units. This is how it's done: http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http://www.mr2forum.de/thread.php%253Fthreadid%253D42132%26tbb%3D1%26usg%3DALkJrhh99PEv9yDW3PB3qSJPiLQWKs6GVQ&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&sl=de&tl=en

Re:This is how it's done.

[Anonymous Coward]

God, what a mess. I much prefer something simple, like the older audi dash: http://www.audiworld.com/tech/pics/elec163_BT_call_1.jpg Even better, it's backlit with red at night to cut down on the eye glare.

Re:This is how it's done.

[Vegeta99]

Wow!

I always wanted to do that on my old t-bird, had even started saving money for some LCD panels. But I like my good ol analog gauges better!

obviously....

[nblender]

When the ipad first came out, this was my first thought... Either give Honda $1800 for the 'entertainment' option, or just buy each kid an ipad so they can watch whatever they want ...

We still manage to keep our 9 yo sufficiently entertained or interested by talking, playing games, and looking out the window that we haven't felt the need to invest in any 'in-car video' gear... Our longest road trip has only been 8 hours though so who knows.

Re:obviously....

[h4rr4r]

As a bonus the first time you come to a hard stop or get in an accident your children can be killed or maimed by the flying ipads.

If you do decide to get one, make sure you get something to hold it to the seatback.

Re:obviously....

[natehoy]

True, but is this a worse risk than the knitting needles my 8-year-old uses while knitting to pass the time on our long drives, or the books she reads, or the sets of sharpened pencils, or any of the other activities she has? Anything loose in a car that is either pointy or heavy can become a deadly projectile in an accident. And, yet, we still keep loose items in cars. I don't see the iPad as any more risky than a hardcover copy of McClosky's "One Morning In Maine". It weighs about the same and has the same basic shape.

In fact, from a safety perspective, my daughter's seat area is FULL of loose objects on any long drive, so she can have several activities handy to keep her busy. On the other hand, an iPad would probably provide her many hours of entertainment for the risk of a single loose object, and she'd probably be happy enough with an iPod that weighs just a few ounces.

But I'll stick with the creative activities for her, even so.

Add-ons

[Andy Smith]

"Auto dealers are selling infotainment systems at a nice fat profit"

You're not kidding. My girlfriend was test-driving a car last week and I asked the dealer how much it would cost to get the satnav option, Keep in mind that the screen is already there (used for the radio and air-conditioning controls) so we're talking about a software switch and possibly some kind of additional antenna. Price? £1,400. Hey Mr Rip-Off Car Dealer, you can: Go. To. Hell.

Re:Add-ons

[Anonymous Coward]

Reminds me of something I heard some car manufacturers were thinking about implementing, performance "enhancements". The car would have a software limiter in it that limited it to say 200HP/75MPH, but if you payed them an extra few thousand they would remove it and the car would do 300HP/95MPH (both examples, not hard numbers). I'd rather drive a rustbucket then give into that kind of extortion.

Re:Add-ons

[Gordonjcp]

Why the hell would you need 200bhp to go at 75mph?

Re:Add-ons

[gtall]

Oh, I get it, the software + satnav receiver are actually free, 'cause you know, producing software costs nothing.

Re:Add-ons

[atrain728]

Isn't that effectively what Intel does with processors?

Re:Add-ons

[justfred]

Because you're racing a cargo truck in the Dakar? In which case you need more like 1000bhp.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tatra_T815

Re:Add-ons

[Littleman_TAMU]

He wasn't complaining about paying extra for the satnav, he was complaining about being asked to pay an absurd amount for satnav. When you can get a good standalone unit for ~$200, ~$4000 sounds ridiculous especially considering the screen already exists so the only things you are paying for are the receiver and the software. Sure you're going to pay more to have it done by the dealer and have it integrated with the rest of the car information system, but about 20 times the cost of a standalone unit sounds like a rip-off to me.

Re:Add-ons

[RMH101]

Oh, this one time you heard something? THanks for that.
It's very common, for a variety of reasons such as insurance prices, pecking order in the range (eg. Seat/Skoda/VW/Audi), emissions, economy etc. This is why remaps are so popular. The BWM Mini One and Mini Cooper, for example, have identical engines with different ECU software maps. A one-click remap will turn one into the other. Obviously the Cooper has a few other bits and pieces - stiffer dampers etc.

Re:Add-ons

[Andy Smith]

Third-party satnavs cost around £100. That's for hardware and software. This car already has the hardware built-in. They're charging £1,400 for the software and possibly an antenna.

Re:Add-ons

[nabsltd]

The car would have a software limiter in it that limited it to say 200HP/75MPH

Pretty much every car these days has that kind of limiter (although not with those numbers).

The engine in my car is rated at 355hp and 350 lb-ft of torque, but the exact same engine with different programming on the ECM results in 365hp and 420 lb-ft in a different vehicle. The other vehicle has a more robust transmission that can handle the extra torque, but there are mods for my car that increase to over 400hp with no damage to any systems.

Personally

[SteeldrivingJon]

I grew out of my building-PCs stage. If I'm not going to do that, i'm certainly not going to do the equivalent, PLUS crawling around on my knees bent under a dashboard, dealing with the joy of automotive proprietary wire harnesses and similar.

Throw an iPhone on the dashboard. No interest in an iPad. I don't watch TV, and barely watch movies. I'm not so media-addicted that i can't handle merely listening to audio in the car.

CarPC

[Oceanplexian]

The iPad is neat but not even close to being a decent CarPC for several reasons

1) Glossy LCD Screen makes it impossible to read in a car

2) Lack of a tactile interface

3) Tiny, internal GPS can't connect with an external GPS antenna

4) Lack of XM radio integration (Not everywhere has 3G)

5) Audio quality is mediocre when compared to a discrete sound card

6) The screen is huge. Most cars don't have that kind of room in the dashboard without serious modification

7) The interface, while intuitive, is not great in a car environment. I want to see MPG, the song playing, distance to destination, and more on a single dashboard screen

8) It's easy to steal if you make it removable

Re:CarPC

[LWATCDR]

One of the new Nokia tablets might be a better choice.
They do have a smaller screen.
They are a lot more hackable. You could create a "dock" with real buttons to add your tactile feed back.
You can write your own custom interface.
Many of the same features can be had with one of the new Dell "too big to be phone" phones. Like the Dell streak.
Problem with that is that it is locked to AT&T.

Re:CarPC

[need4mospd]

All excellent points. One Mustang owner had a pretty cool solution to make it work fairly well.

http://www.stangtv.com/news/2011-mustang-gets-ipad-installed-in-dash-and-stereo-in-the-roof/

Re:CarPC

[adamofgreyskull]

8) It's easy to steal if you make it removable

This is the only point that I wouldn't agree with. If it's removable, you can take it with you, I've no idea why you would leave it in the car. Conversely, regular car stereos, not designed to be taken with you when you get out of the car are (or were) notoriously easy to steal. I imagine the same would be true of an aftermarket car computer or DIY car computer.

Re:CarPC

[Anonymous Coward]

"8) It's easy to steal if you make it removable"

No, like a removable faceplate, this is an anti-theft feature.

Re:CarPC

[Twinbee]

Can we start to see the end of the fad with shiny screens (generally with LCD screens)?

They invariably make viewing worse from what I've found.

Re:CarPC

[Littleman_TAMU]

If it's removable, you can take it with you, I've no idea why you would leave it in the car.

Yeah, but then you have to lug an iPad around everywhere you go. It's not like it will fit in your pocket.

Conversely, regular car stereos, not designed to be taken with you when you get out of the car are (or were) notoriously easy to steal. I imagine the same would be true of an aftermarket car computer or DIY car computer.

I think this is still true of aftermarket car stereos though they usually have removable faceplates that you can store in the glovebox (or take with you, but then you have the same problem as the iPad of lugging it around everywhere). If the car computer is integrated in the dash, then you would have to take the dash apart or really slash it up to get at the computer (not that this is hard, but I don't think it's a simple smash and grab). If it's just a laptop sitting under a seat with an LCD in the dash, then yeah you're right.

Obligatory : Will It Run

[Anonymous Coward]

Windows Unix 1.0 ?

Yours In Orlando,
Kilgore Trout

How distracted do you want to be?

[damn_registrars]

There are times when having actual dials and tactile controls is valuable. I can adjust the station and volume on my car stereo without looking at the deck which is considerably safer than having to take my eyes off the road to find the right button on an all-touch interface.

Re:How distracted do you want to be?

[mcgrew]

My car has radio controls both in the radio and the steering wheel. I can far more easily change the volume on the steering wheel without taking my eyes off the road than I can with the knob on the radio.

Article not answering the question presented

[Stregano]

The summary asked a question: "The question is, is that even worth the bother? Or is it better to bolt a mount into the car for an iPad or a Galaxy tablet and call it good?" I thought the answer would be waiting for me, and searched that webpage for a page two or something, but there was not one. I will admit it is a very cool concept, but the article just does not seem to give enough information. It basically says, "Hey, this would be a cool car pc" and then leaves it at that. It gives links at the bottom of the page, but that is it. I guess this article is very confusing to me because it acts like it wants to give you some really good, detailed instructions on doing it (plus when the summary talks about all of the stuff you can put into one, everything just seems like the person will build one), and nothing is built. Did the person that do this make a car pc and was really excited about it and want to share his specs on it or something? I guess I am not seeing a point at all to this article. It shows nothing of interest outside of giving you ideas.

This is not flaming or trolling, as if there is an article out there that gets posted can do it, I feel I should be able to do it through a comment: A fully automated, wireless house/apartment. I personally thought it was a cool idea to control absolutely everything in your house through a remote control (including turning on the shower to a temp you want and stuff). I personally know how to do most of this stuff. Do you want to know how to do it? Yeah, I'm sure you do, let me give you some links instead.

You see what I mean. I was amped up to find out what the dude did to make it happen, and was left with links to click on instead

Re:Article not answering the question presented

[need4mospd]

This guy put an ipad in his Mustang...

http://www.stangtv.com/news/2011-mustang-gets-ipad-installed-in-dash-and-stereo-in-the-roof/

The ultimate in auto entertainment systems

[Animats]

is "Fully Loaded", by Bruce McCall.

(This is one of Bruce McCall's many drawings of dream cars of the 1959s that should have been.)

Re:The ultimate in auto entertainment systems

[karnal]

Looks like a southpark character on the laptop lol

Re:The ultimate in auto entertainment systems

[Wook Man]

Uh huh. This guy managed to predict EXACTLY what a laptop looks like, and South Park.

Depends, obviously

[Anonymous Coward]

My cars dash doesn't have anywhere to put any sort of device mount, without it looking retarded. In some vehicles, it'd look fine, or even like it belongs, but not mine. Anything non-stock sticks out like a sore thumb.

I also do not wish to carry my iPad everywhere, nor leave it or it's mount, in plain view on the streets of baltimore. Just having the mount in view - or the suction cup marks on your windshield - will get your window smashed, because thieves arent stupid, they know the iPad/GPS/iPhone/etc is likely nearby in the glovebox, under the seat, or in the trunk.

Speaking of GPS, the iPad is not one. It should be, it'd make an awesome nav aid, but that's another argument.

So I opted for the in-dash dvd/gps/mp3 unit. Originally I was going to hack the GPS cable to wire a carputer, since it's just a VGA and serial pairs for the mouse/touchscreen, but IRL, it does everything I want out of the box, and looks like it belongs there, and I have enough shit to do anyways.

Just give me a couple of powered USB ports

[Old97]

I don't use the CD Changer anymore. I plug in my iPod or iPhone. I don't have a GPS system because the navigation system on my iPhone works well. I don't watch DVD's while driving and I don't have young kids, but if I did, I'd give them iPads or iPod Touches instead and they could watch or play or whatever. All this stuff works whether it is my car, a friends car or a rental car. It also works when I'm not in a car. Why would I want to pay for something like that if its bolted into a car? Hell I watch all of my video on my iPad or my computer so our TV is gathering dust. So many of the previous generation of entertainment devices are now obsolete. It's funny.

Re:Just give me a couple of powered USB ports

[ChefInnocent]

I don't use the CD Changer. I sing. I don't have a GPS system because I know where I'm at and where I'm going before I leave the house. If I don't know where I'm going, then I don't want to know. I don't watch DVD's while driving, the mountains, stars, and bad drivers are entertaining enough. All this stuff works whether it is my car, a friends car, or a rental car. It also works when I'm not in a car, but I don't get to watch the bad drivers. Why would I want to pay for something like that if it's bolted into a car? I'd be dead since they would likely bolt by larynx first, and I'd bleed to death. So many of the previous generations of entertainment are still viable, but only if your not ADHD.

Re:Just give me a couple of powered USB ports

[mdielmann]

I don't watch DVD's while driving, the mountains, stars, and bad drivers are entertaining enough.

I have nothing but trouble seeing the mountains and stars while I'm driving, but I'm sure trying improves my driving. I suppose that means I'm one of your sources of entertainment!

Re:Just give me a couple of powered USB ports

[rrossman2]

Yeah, because the navigation system on the iPhone, Android, etc works without cell coverage. Buzz. You'll see a dot where you are, but you won't have any map around you. Also, the car nav units will mute the music and tell you the next step, so on a longggggg drive you don't accidentally miss the exit. If you have the radio up, you'll never hear that from an Android or iPhone. I've had both, and they don't compare to the in dash nav units at all.

Re:Just give me a couple of powered USB ports

[mini me]

I live in a very rural area in North America and have not travelled to a place in recent times without 3G coverage. I like to listen to radio over 3G while driving, so I am acutely aware of any reception issues while out in open spaces over long hauls. A couple of years ago I might have agreed with you, but those times are past us.

I cannot speak for Android, but my iPhone does exactly what you describe with the audio. It will reduce the volume of the music and let the GPS software have its audio time, just like the car units.

I do not deny that there are places that do not have the coverage necessary to provide navigation over the internet, but if you are on a road that has other cars on it, you should have no problem. Besides, there is nothing about smartphones that require them to fetch GPS maps from the internet. It is not a limitation of the hardware or operating system.

Just use a smartphone, silly...

[DomNF15]

They are about as powerful as the small form factor mobo-cpu combos that are available for these types of projects anyway. You can get most of the functions you want/need (phone, bluetooth, music, movies, GPS) with the exception of controlling the HVAC. And as a bonus you can take it with you and use it the rest of the time you are *not* in your car. Trust me, I looked into doing this for my 2005 Subaru Impreza, the DIN slot was the right size and everything, but it was completely not worth the time/effort. Some other guy had already done it so I even had steps to follow, but to get it to look right, he had to get some plastic custom fabbed from a machine shop. If you're planning on doing the car-puter for any purpose other than fun/hobby, you're wasting your time.

Already on it

[RevWaldo]

http://www.steering-wheel-ipad.com/

And it won't void your warrenty!

.

Re:Already on it

[Dan667]

I cannot tell if this is a joke or not...

Re:Already on it

[RyuuzakiTetsuya]

best solution.

mostly, wait for other idiots using it and nick the ipad after they crash.

(assuming the ipad's in good condition after the wreck.)

Re:Already on it

[nschubach]

It allows the iPad to decapitate you in the case of an airbag release. This way you do not feel anything after the accident.

Re:Already on it

[Anonymous Coward]

love the patent link.....duct tape....lol

Re:Already on it

[natehoy]

It probably will be. It's mounted over the airbag and is mounted in such a way that it'll probably impact the driver edge-on, which means the first thing it encounters will be soft tissue, the narrow profile at impact ensures a clean entry into the soft tissue, and the precious glass screen will probably not be the area of initial impact. If it's a clean headshot, the unit might be slightly banged up from passing through the skull, but it's unlikely to have been seriously damaged even so. With any luck at all, the unit will simply pass through the cranium and land safely in the back seat, so you don't need to actually watch the life leave the driver's eyes as you thank them for the loot. You can just mumble some vague thanks, it's the polite thing to do.

About your only real risk is moisture damage from the blood and brains that will no doubt be covering the unit. Get to it quickly and use the person's shirt or the car's upholstery to wipe the worst of it off, and it should be good to go!

Re:Already on it

[Anonymous Coward]

Assuming the airbag doesn't put the other driver's face through the screen when you hit them. Is there really a worse place to put a hard, flat object than directly over the airbag?

Re:Already on it

[Anonymous Coward]

http://www.steering-wheel-ipad.com/

And it won't void your warrenty! .

This should be illegal to do

Re:Already on it

[markass530]

Due to the recent overwhelming increase in demand for the iPad Steering Wheel Mount we can no longer ship the product direct to the public from our Design Studio and Factory since it is only set up for low levels of production. This is a new one, a Factory has been slashdotted.

In theory, theory and practice are the same

[Fry-kun]

2 major problems with using iPad as a car pc (off the top of my head, mind you)

* glare -- HUGE problem when you're in daylight and you've got light coming in from every window. And if the sun hits the screen directly... have fun!
* no extensibility -- no CD/tape/radio. Forget sat radio. No higher quality GPS or any other upgrades. True, you don't get extreme flexibility with pre-built car pcs, but they're still upgradeable to an extent..

Re:In theory, theory and practice are the same

[kimvette]

- no CD/tape/radio.

It's 2010. Where are you buying prerecorded cassettes now?

Or, the question asked by those born in the '90s: "What is tape?"

Re:In theory, theory and practice are the same

[RockDoctor]

Did you know that "FTW" ("for the win") is a direct translation of "Sieg Heil"?

Oh, so that's what the acronym means.

Does it mean anything in real life? (Obviously I know that "Seig Heil" is the German release of the rather shoddy British car, the "Triumph Acclaim".)

It's also a nice place to sleep

[publiclurker]

if SWMBO did not appreciate the latest expensive toys you just purchased.

Re:It's also a nice place to sleep

[badboy_tw2002]

Saucy Waif Man BOy?
Seriously Wicked Mad Barack Obama?

Re:It's also a nice place to sleep

[Abstrackt]

She Who Must Be Obeyed.

Re:It's also a nice place to sleep

[publiclurker]

Yup. Badboy is obviously single :-)

STiPad

[drummerboybac]

Friend of mine decided to tackle the iPad in a car problem, this is what he came up with.

If I had an STi I'd be all over his solution.

And while are you playing with all that

[Anonymous Coward]

and smash in to another car, pedestrian, cyclists, etc. will you wonder wtf you were doing with an entertainment system in your car?

Knight Rider

[Chyeld]

If I can't convince my passengers that KITT is in the car with them, it's not worth doing.

ummm

[Anonymous Coward]

try reading a book -

Can't replace my factory stereo ('07 Volvo S80)

[swb]

The car stereo is deeply integrated into the car; the stereo display shows the climate control settings as well as being the interface to the car's menu system which changes features of the car (door lock behavior, etc).

The computer network in this car is also fairly complicated and interfaces with pretty much everything. I can't even begin to imagine the clusterfuck that would be involved in replacing it outright and replacing it. You'd completely lose the ability change car settings and possibly fuck the computer network to the point where the car wouldn't run at all.

Now I can see how you could add a completely seperate stereo system and maybe wire it into the existing speaker system, but I can't see the value add in this.

Re:Can't replace my factory stereo ('07 Volvo S80)

[Anonymous Coward]

Then don't buy such a ridiculous car, or accept that most people here wanting to replace their stereos have older, non-luxury cars (Fords, whatever) that have really basic in-car stereos.

Re:Can't replace my factory stereo ('07 Volvo S80)

[josh_nz]

Deeply integrated is not something that is an issue anything* in my 1963 series 2 Land Rover. *Anything includes doors, bonnet, walls and engine (onto third in its lifetime).

Believe it or not...

[Lilith's Heart-shape]

...but I like being married, and not being in jail for being a fucking wife-beater.

She Who Must Be Obeyed

[crovira]

That's the term that Rumpole used to describe his matrimonial arrangement.

That's also mine...

My wife and I never disagree. Its always "Yes Dear!"

The thing we put up with for the chance to sleep with an ex-gymnast ... who can put her legs behind her head ... and can hold her breath for two minutes ... Uh see you guys. I'm got to go check what SWMBO is doing. :-)

Temperatue is a big issue in cars

[aceboomblain]

Automotive standards require things like radios / CD players / etc to operate at a much wider set of temperatures and for much longer than consumer grade stuff. So while DIY Car PCs may be fun for the hobbyist, you may find yourself going thru hard drives or CPUs much quicker than in a PC meant for the office or living room.

iPad all the way

[gbr]

I swapped out my carpc for an iPad. All I needed it for was music (mp3) and GPS. I love it. I modified a couple of cell phone mounts to hold the iPad, and it easily comes with me when I leave the car.

Waiting

[Capt.DrumkenBum]

I want a carputer. But I drive a soft top Jeep with doors that do not lock, so that is out.
I looked at the iPad as a possible solution, but just was not right for what I wanted. (Locked down, glossy screen.)
Android. Maybe, but not right now.
Microsoft. MS has no place in my car.
I came to the conclusion what I really want is a Windows 7 tablet; wiped out, and reinstalled with Linux.
So hurry up and fail with the Windows 7 tablets already. I can hardly wait to pick one up from the clearance bin.

Forgetting about the men in blue?

[Anonymous Coward]

You miss the obvious. Making your DIY system will get you hundreds of dollars in tickets if you live in one of the many cities/states where it is illegal to have a system capable of playing back video and visible to the driver that is not hardwired to be disengaged while the vehicle is in motion.

Re:Forgetting about the men in blue?

[AltairDusk]

Which is especially amusing since most of the disabling mechanisms on factory systems are easily bypassed.

Re:Forgetting about the men in blue?

[shadowfaxcrx]

How is the cop going to know that it can play video unless you're dumb enough to actually watch a movie while driving, and he happens to notice?

They're pretty used to seeing integrated nav units these days. Unless you give him reason to think otherwise, that's what he'll assume you have.

Gaaaaa!

[Stanislav_J]

.....rip out your car stereo and replace it with a do-it-yourself touchscreen PC, complete with DVD, GPS, TV, Bluetooth, Wi-Fi, MP3, and Internet surfing.

How 'bout ripping out the driver and replacing him/her with someone who will pay attention to THE ROAD and not video, chitchat, texting or surfing the Web? That would be a worthwhile modification.

Please, folks, stop this incessant and increasingly ridiculous "multi-tasking" behind the wheel. 99% of those who say they can do it safely, can't. They just think they can (primarily because their definition of "safe" is "I haven't had an accident.....yet"). Save the rest of that shit for when you get to your destination. If you can't live without being connected to the hive for the length of your commute, stay home.

Re:Gaaaaa!

[Anonymous Coward]

Some of us have wives/girlfriends/friends who occasionally occupy the passenger seat. Sorry...that may be too obscure a reference for you. They generally sit in the "Fast-food holder".

And what of all the travelling sales reps? I used to cover quite a bit of distance in the UK going out to customer sites and installing Point of Sale systems. GPS stops you from having to read a map or having an intimate knowledge of every A, B and back-country rural road that you may end up on. DVD/TV/Wi-Fi would all have made those service-station/rest stops a bit nicer too. I agree wholeheartedly that "multi-tasking" while driving is dangerous but one does not necessarily follow the other.

In short, your use-case is not the only one. I suppose you had fun tearing down that straw-man though.

What do you use the computer for?

[houghi]

Most likely it is for listening to radio and music. 2-3 years ago I bought a new car radio that reads SD cards, CD roms, (wav, mp3 and ogg). Connecting USB devices is no problem and I also have Bluetooth. Oh and the traffic anouncements. This costs me 110EUR. I even got a remote to use it, which is silly, as stretching my arm is easier then finding the remote.

So what did I not get: Touchscreen. Not really missing that. In fact I like the buttons, so I can 'feel' where I am pressing while driving. No Internet. Not really an issue either. No GPS. That is about the only thing I miss, so I had to buy that extra for 150EUR with a European wide map.

So moneywise, the PC that I would build myself should be no more expensive then say 300 EUR and be able to do all that I have now AND fit in the same space I have the radio now.

Building it into the car doesn't make sense.

[Above]

Cars last 10-20 years, which in the consumer electronics world might as well be the difference between the middle ages and today. No mater what system you so carefully install, it will be obsolete before the car, by a wide margin.

What cars need is a small space to install something like a MiFi. It should be a modular space so it can be swapped out over time, the key is to have power controlled by the key and enough space for access point type electronics. An input to the stereo is a huge plus.

Then get an iPad, or an Android Pad, or a netbook, or whatever is trendy next year. Connect to the Internet and be happy. CD, DVD players? What are those, I can put it all on an iPod. As long as I could AirPlay (or similar) to the box to the stereo, why install anything?

Automakers hate this, because it removes high profit items from the car; but it really is the future. Perhaps for the driver a standard docking station, so your pad type device can show you GPS maps and the like. A built in DVD player in the ceiling for the kids though is already on the way out, an iPad gives them more movies, games, and all at less cost....plus each kid can do what they want.

Actually, awesome

[SuperKendall]

I saw that before I thought although it looks kind of ghetto, it was actually a pretty awesome idea, the kind of geeky I don't give a damn what it looks like but it sure works well" kind of attitude I admire (and share).

Re:Actually, awesome

[Anonymous Coward]

wow, spoken like a true apple customer eh!

who the hell do you think you're kidding you filthy hypocrite...?

Re:Actually, awesome

[JohnBailey]

wow, spoken like a true apple customer eh!

Aww. come on.. For an Apple buyer, that counts as extreme modding.

Easy choice

[nilbog]

I built out a car computer in my WRX (http://gthing.net/carputer-5-final) and can tell you if I had it all to do over again, I would go with the iPad. There are so many things to worry about with a carputer. Providing power, making sure the system sleeps properly, making sure it has enough power while sleeping to stay alive but not drain the battery, touch screen interface software for OS X, making a reliable internet connection, etc. etc. etc.

An iPad solves nearly every problem, costs $500 for a basic unit, and will work better than anything you can come up with using a computer the is required to be powered off of your car's battery.

Whoa there, Sonny...

[Anonymous Coward]

That's a load-bearing stereo you are messing with!

Re:Whoa there, Sonny...

[SageMusings]

Err "Stressed Member"

I really, really miss the Empeg guys..

[cheros]

The guys at Empeg did the business, long before we had car "entertainment" systems. Given what they did in 1999 I wonder what they could make with the kit we have today. I had them in as part of a talk once, and it was rather fun to see just how overengineered the thing was - it was playing music and at the same time the guys decided to compile a new kernel on that unit..

Sometimes it doesn't need a good economical reason - sometimes it's just goo fun to do. That it turns into money afterwards is, of course, always a bonus but it's not always the reason to start a hobby project :-).

Only computer I need is my MegaSquirt 3

[halfdan the black]

Yup, all I need is to control my custom fuel injection system. No radio, no sat-nav, no climate control, just six cylinders of tuned exhaust.

having built these...

[Charliemopps]

having built these... I can say that a DIY car computer can do ANYTHING you want. Stuff you couldn't even dream of on an ipad. Can you program the Ipad to start the car? Unlock the doors from your cellphone? I have a truck that I use for rock crawling. I've got sensors that can detect the current angle the trucks leaning and audibly warn me if I'm in danger of rolling. It can read information directly from the cars engine and tell you if somethings wrong. You can install accelerometers to sense impact and call emergency services if you want. You can install wifi, share the drive in your car on your home network so when you walk inside you can download data, upload maps, music, movies... Of course almost all this stuff has to be pieced together, the software's in dozens of different open source beta projects... etc... etc.. But really, in my experience Ipads are for Doctors and Dentists with little to no computer savvy that just want to mount their Ipad in their Prius and show off to their employees.

Re:having built these...

[CAIMLAS]

That's kinda along the lines of what I intend to do on my 'next' vehicle (not this one, because the vehicle is too much of a piece of shit and not roadworthy for longer trips). I've already got the 'basics' figured out, and have built all the components independently. I figure one of the Intel Atom dualcore or AMD Neo (dualcore) processors, 2GB of RAM, and a small SSD (60GB) will handle the job nicely.

The target vehicle will (likely, hopefully) be a 1-ton conversion van from the 1980s (Ford or Chevy) with a slight lift, 4wd, and either a powerstroke or a cummins 4BT engine. The system will include:

* Reverse cameras (for the wife, who hates 'long vehicles') as well as infrared proximity alarms at 6 independent points (eg. the areas where someone who's unfamiliar with the vehicle may consider running into something). I'm playing with the idea of additional cameras for accident pictures, but it's turning out to be too complicated (speed/etc. estimation), CPU intensive, and expensive.
* An under-carriage camera, facing forward from the rear bumper, possibly with an infrared distance sensor (still playing with this later part) to detect insufficient clearance.
* Long-range (100-200 yard) infrared imaging, so I can see deer (and other animals and vehicles) at longer distances. This is tricky, because it needs magnification to help provide item identification on a smaller screen, and doing so from a moving vehicle needs stabilization. It's mainly for long trips (out here, the roads stretch on for miles and miles without a turn), at night/dawn/dusk. I'm suspecting that object detection via 3-point infrared might be a better option, even if I can't do active object identification.
* Infosystems, pulled over 3G modem: weather reports for the area, road conditions, and possibly GPS/road directions (unfortunately, there are no good "driving maps with directions" programs available for Linux, unless we're talking about a proprietary system. I've yet to look into whether a pairing a Garmin or similar might be possible.)
* Remote start, on a timer, if it's parked in front of my house (able to access my home network). The tank and engine heaters would come on half an hour beforehand. I've got this on my current truck right now. :) It's nice on cold mornings. I'm thinking of figuring out how to make an alarm clock which this system could piggyback off of: if I hit the snooze 2-3 times, it doesn't start the car for another 20 minutes. If i turn the alarm off, it doesn't start the vehicle at all.
* Fuel prices when fuel runs low. You know the Ford Escape commercials? I've been able to do that for years.
* Field programmable gear/RPM shift points for optimal mileage economy on long trips, or simply a lot of awesome high-acceleration torque when some kid wants to 'race' in his riced out Neon.
* Wifi hotspot, so my wife can use her laptop to look at facebook. (Also used to communicate with home network and push media files.)

* In-vehicle edutainment for the children. I've got 3 of them, so it's somewhat dicey on a long road trip. (Of course, i'll have a passenger-compartment separation in the vehicle so their noises don't disturb the driver and his mate - and vice versa.) This system will likely be independent from the vehicle control/detection computer, simply to ease the need for prioritization.
This will all be on its own independent power system, and I'm playing with the idea of tying it into a 'custom' ECU (I've seen a couple but I'm not sure what I like). Both the main vehicle A/C power and the axillary power will be continually trickle charged via a couple smaller solar panels on the roof.

But really, in my experience Ipads are for Doctors and Dentists with little to no computer savvy that just want to mount their Ipad in their Prius and show off to their employees.

This could not be said better. The most pretentious "I'm good with computers" person I know (who really isn't) is both a doctor and an Apple fanatic.

iPad would be great if not visible

[Arthritis Remedies]

I believe that the iPad would be an awesome option if it is not visible, because if it was it and your windows would be gone quickly! If they had a hidden docking station with a lift up panel with a fake airbag symbol above it, then that might work!

iPad != car PC

[WebCowboy]

iPad isn't even an impressive tablet, and as an automotive PC it is completely inadequate (and no it cannot be made adequate with the right apps either). You state many good reasons as well--there are even more.

1) Glossy LCD Screen makes it impossible to read in a car

The touch screen is also capacitive. Resistive is much better for this environment, especially in northern climates where you spend half the time wearing gloves--cannot use capacitive screen at all with gloves, and when it is cold and dry even bare fingers don't work right. You might not get multi-touch, but multi-touch cannot be used safely while driving in any case.

Which leads me to cold weather operation. Auto systems are meant to withstand harsher conditions. How well would the iPad handle being stored or used at -40 for a period of up to hours?

6) The screen is huge. Most cars don't have that kind of room in the dashboard without serious modification

and yet the icons and wigits can still be too small for operation with minimal distraction. Proper apps with interfaces for automotive use would have to be made. They can also not rely on multi-touch and gestures to such a high degree when such dexterity is not safely possible in a moving vehicle.

7) The interface, while intuitive, is not great in a car environment. I want to see MPG, the song playing, distance to destination, and more on a single dashboard screen

need a good hands-free, voice-command interface for making phone calls too. How well does iPad work with your phone via bluetooth?

Another is lack of removable media--yes CDs are "quaint" but they are still the primary source of music for normal non-techie people. In my car I can just bring a CD with me and rip the tracks right off it into the internal drive--no messing with the craptacular iTunes or bothering with a computer if I don't want to. Sorry iTunes is total garbage even on a mac and I don't get why people salivate over iPod's OK-but-not-utopian interface--my in-car system has a much superior interface for its purpose (playing media on the dashboard) than iTunes and iPod media management and playback interfaces (android media player is even worse).

Mac Mini

[ritzer]

I set up a Mac Mini in my van this past summer. Not too hard to do. It is reasonably energy efficient and I readily found a DC-DC converter for it. I have a 7" touch screen on the dash, and have a BT keyboard in the glove box. I have MacGPS Pro and continent wide topomaps for my road trips. Connecting my laptop is just a matter of screen sharing via wifi. Whole setup with maps, software & hardware, cost about $1500. Rumour has it that this setup would play movies too, if Hollywood would only release anything worthwhile.

Re: some great points!

[King_TJ]

The glossy screen, IMO, is one of the biggest issues ... but frankly, it's not an iPad exclusive issue either. I recently spent quite a bit on an in-car navigation solution custom-designed for my make/model of car. It fits in the dashboard in place of a boring, 2 line LCD display the original manufacturer included and looks like it came with the car, new. It allows quite a few nice features, including ability to watch movies on it, play music from MP3s on memory sticks inserted into a hub in the glovebox, etc. But unfortunately, it has horrible screen glare too. I can't even open my sunroof during the day or the sun shines right onto the display and totally washes it out!

Much of this problem can be reduced or eliminated, iPad or otherwise, by clever/proper mounting. The main thing seems to be finding a way to get some sort of plastic "hood" over the top of it (as many factory nav systems accomplish by recessing the screens fairly far back into the dashboard), or placing it low enough so direct light from your windows misses it. Tinted windows may help too.

Also, I think the interface issue with the iPad can be overcome if someone really thinks it through, and writes a custom app for the purpose? I'm rather surprised it hasn't already happened, really. Ideally, I'd like to see some kind of "front end" app you'd leave running that allows things like launching a GPS mapping app, launching one of those ODBII apps that talks to a bluetooth module plugged into the port under the dash and displays engine information like spark timing, oil pressure, etc., and has a simplified (big buttons) interface for things like playing video or music in your collection. I've always thought the iPad would make an excellent trip planner too, with the right app. You could essentially do a modern day take on those old AAA "Trip-tic" flip books they used to give you. Integrate the whole GPS thing with ability to easily make your hotel reservations, locate the cheapest nearby parking garages, suggestions of cool tourist attractions coming up on your route as you go, etc. etc.

Line in + n810

[badran]

Use a Nokia n810 and use the freaking line-in. No need to remove the current system.

Dangerous

[Anonymous Coward]

You shouldn't have any of these electronic gizmos in your car. Distracted driving is extremely dangerous and electronic distractions while driving should be banned. Passengers can use there own laptops/iFads etc. while in the passenger seat if they want.

Been there, done that. Made a website.

[PhinMak]

Been there. Done that. Made a website.

Http://web.archive.org/web/20021203213216/www.portlandcompany.com/z24/

This was in the late 90's and there was no such thing as portable mp3 players. In fact, the Roxio Rio with 32megs of capacity came out just as I was finishing the build.

Issues to consider:

• I blew 1 head unit ($300) while installing due to miswiring. Ow.
• MASSIVE PROBLEMS with feedback. Somehow the car-computer-stereo connections caused a constant background hum that I could only minimize. Tried induction isolators, even went to a few car stereo stores and they could only scratch their heads.
• It took me 3 months to find an ATX power supply that was designed to accept 12v DC rather than 120v AC.
• Unless you design in a battery back-up, you have to wait a few minutes getting in and out of your car while you wait for the system to start up or shut down.

This project was one of my major geek credentials, but you can see from the site that I quickly realized that I was being left in the dust when it came to my webdeveloping skills. I could talk for hours about how much fun this project was for a highschooler.

Re:Been there, done that. Made a website.

[Anonymous Coward]

itym Diamond Rio. I had one, it was fucking awesome. Hooked up via parallel port, and I could fit a ton of music on there (almost an entire album of 32kps mp3s).

Dr's & Dentists..

[Anonymous Coward]

I so agree, I work w/ medical professionals, and just "adore" the cute ipads floating around everywhere. Unfortunately I abhor how they expect (read demand) everything we do to work on their device.